Fake Tanking

svendf

AyaDark wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

How may dds have 35-40k in health ? How many dds have 25-30k resistance with buffs or without (or even above that)? How many dds have two taunts in slot ? Many real tanks have and I have.(inner fire and piercing)

How many dds have a pull or portal in slot for adds ?

Meta is for score runs and not needed for runs other than that. Builds can be checked.

Real tanks are real. Fakes are fakes. It can be checked and should be.

I can do tank with 10 k hp that will be impossible to kill.

I can mass agro with no agr sloted.

I can pull mobs by monster set or dps adds as hard, that it will be no need in it.

Teso is a game where a some one with brain is not limited.

So you say - you play teso becouse it is not like other game, make the game stupid like other game, that i do not play and others do not want to play ?

It can not be checked. And what is a real tank ? I can have 4 agro sloted and do not use any.

Or i can have 0 aggr and do not lose agr of any mob.

A lot of players can solo it, why only fake tank ?

Why not fake heal, dd, tank.

Fake player ? The one who play bad ?

And i know a lot of players who just say - ok.

And you will wait 5 hours to find tank. Not 20 minutes.

Becouse people who play really well will not go there any more. It will not be interesting for them.

And they even will not help people, because of changes like that
They will say: I really like he way like it was, why will i go help some one who ruin my favorite gamestyle ?

Do you know why you can not find tanks in randoms ? Because of your self, you ruin any fun to play tank.

My main was tank 2-3 years ago, i really love it.

You should stop fake tanking and let tanks do the tanking Me ? I´m good as tank. assault me bacuse I hit a weak spot. Get over it soon or later we will se tthose checks and you can´t do anything about it.

Bottom line is you wanna cheat.

ATomiX69

As long as fake dps exist, so too will fake tanks.
They coexist in harmony.

Sarannah

ATomiX69 wrote: »

As long as fake dps exist, so too will fake tanks.
They coexist in harmony.

Fake DPS is the result of fake tanks! Fake tanks do not allow DPS to learn their roles, so all they can do is run circles. Noone there to safe them, which a real tank would do. It isn't fake DPS by the way, they just never had the chance to do any real DPS, so it is just low DPS. At the end of the day, the fake tank's DPS addon makes it look like they did the most DPS. Which is all the 'excuse' a fake tank needs to justify their terrible behaviour.

There is a reason why I practically never experience low DPS groups... they can trust their tank. So they can focus on DPSing. And since I'm a real tank, the healer doesn't have to heal me often, making them do quite alot of DPS as well. How much DPS a healer can do, depends on how well a tank keeps the mobs off the DPS. And how much damage the tank himself can take ofcourse.

A real tank makes a major difference.

AyaDark

Guys. I am DD now.

And i think that i can solo any not DLC vet HM.

That is what good DPS does.

If you can not, you are as fake DPS as your fake tanks are.

It is not problem in tanks, only problem you are.

I think even with not fake God level tank, the problem will be the same.

And tanks do not go randoms becouse:
2 k dps is not a DPS, they do not want to stuck there, play better.

Ibecame DD, my girl who play Healer became DD.

Do you know why ?
Because when we were Tank and Heal we only have one question. Is DD so hard to play ? Why that guys play such bad ?
We try and - no problems at all.

It is more simple + you do a lot of dps.
And it is funny, you can solo a lot.

4 not fake dps one shot Boss for 10 seconds, it even can not do anything !!!

What fake tanks are you talking about?

Do your own job first.

And if you do not want fake tanks = do your own Tank, and play it.

It is simple. Just like we do with DD.

Calm_Fury

This still happens because people don't kick them enough.

I main tanks. Most of my play time is PUG tanking vet dungeons with DK, Warden and Necro tanks.

Yesterday, I did 3 pledges with my new Magblade DPS. 2 of them had fake tanks. I ended up "tanking" both with my dps simply because the aggro always shifted to me.

We could do all dungeons easily, but it was a big annoyance. I wanted to DPS, but had to constantly dodge, block and heal myself. I started vote to kick several times, it never passed.

I just gave up and accepted. Now I always unlock Inner Fire on my DPS and slot it if the fake tank doesn't taunt.

I wish people kicked fake tanks more and that ZOS had an option to kick for that and gave some time penalty forbidding using group finder for repeating offenses. But this has been an issue since the beginning of the game and I have no hope this will change, unfortunately.

VaranisArano

AyaDark wrote: »

And if you do not want fake tanks = do your own Tank, and play it.

It is simple. Just like we do with DD.

I main a tank. Most of the time, I play on my tank characters.

Strangely, however, sometimes I want to play my healer or DDs. And that's when I run into fake tanks.

Then as I face tank the boss (because somebody is going to end up with boss aggro if there's no taunt), I'm left wondering "Why didn't I just queue on my tank? I'd be able to do a better job of tanking and the run would go smoother! Oh, right, foolish me thinking I'd actually get to play my healer or DPS..."

Calm_Fury

VaranisArano wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

And if you do not want fake tanks = do your own Tank, and play it.

It is simple. Just like we do with DD.

I main a tank. Most of the time, I play on my tank characters.

Strangely, however, sometimes I want to play my healer or DDs. And that's when I run into fake tanks.

Then as I face tank the boss (because somebody is going to end up with boss aggro if there's no taunt), I'm left wondering "Why didn't I just queue on my tank? I'd be able to do a better job of tanking and the run would go smoother! Oh, right, foolish me thinking I'd actually get to play my healer or DPS..."

Exactly the same with me. I heard this from other tanks as well. We just want a break and to try some new gameplay with DDs and healers and we end up tanking anyway.

It is very annoying.

PrimusNephilim

Calm_Fury wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

And if you do not want fake tanks = do your own Tank, and play it.

It is simple. Just like we do with DD.

I main a tank. Most of the time, I play on my tank characters.

Strangely, however, sometimes I want to play my healer or DDs. And that's when I run into fake tanks.

Then as I face tank the boss (because somebody is going to end up with boss aggro if there's no taunt), I'm left wondering "Why didn't I just queue on my tank? I'd be able to do a better job of tanking and the run would go smoother! Oh, right, foolish me thinking I'd actually get to play my healer or DPS..."

Exactly the same with me. I heard this from other tanks as well. We just want a break and to try some new gameplay with DDs and healers and we end up tanking anyway.

It is very annoying.

I can't remember the last time I queued for a dungeon as a DPS, I can't stand chasing bosses around and the wait time is atrocious

josiahva

The problem with people trying to set pre-requisites for tanking(taunts, skills, sets, stats) is that not all tanks conform to any such thing. As an example I have magicka-based "tank" I sometimes use for non-DLC vet dungeons that wears Rattlecage and Way of Martial Knowledge(and I think still has Illambris equipped because I havent changed it since the nerf). Max HP on that tank is about 24-25k, resistances in the low 20s, but has 3k spell damage and can push out as much as 30k DPS with the right rotation(depending on how much I have to focus on survival in a given fight). On that tank I simply use damage output on initial aggro to aggro mobs and keep their attention until they die...I do have a taunt slotted in case they don't die before someone starts dealing more damage than me and changes their aggro target...but most times you can hold aggro with damage just fine as long as you aggro the mobs first....it requires a completely different playstyle that taunt-spam and CC based tanking, but it is STILL tanking...and a lot of groups welcome the extra DPS as long as I keep the threats controlled. The point is, that build would never pass a tank check of any sort, even if it does the job just fine in content less than vet DLC dungeons. as @AyaDark said above....someone with an imagination can come up with any number of builds to tank in non-standard ways...what really matters is that they do the job expected of them.

stefj68

problems with vote kicking fake tank, it's somtimes it takes 20-45min to get a replacement tank, you could have done the pledges way faster with your fake tank ...

2 times we vote kick the fake tank, and we were able to 3 man it while waiting for queue replacements

zaria

stefj68 wrote: »

problems with vote kicking fake tank, it's somtimes it takes 20-45min to get a replacement tank, you could have done the pledges way faster with your fake tank ...

2 times we vote kick the fake tank, and we were able to 3 man it while waiting for queue replacements

Add dungeon finder issues, sometimes it have problems getting an DD replacement for an easy vet pledge dungeon.

Xiomaro

When I do easy dungeons on my Stamplar, I almost always use my DPS set up with a taunt. DPS in randoms are just so hit and miss that it just makes runs smoother to play "fake tank". If a hard dungeon comes up, I use the Dressing Room addon. So I'll quickly switch to a proper tank set up and roll with that.

Fake DPS are a bigger problem in my experience. My runs go smoother as a fake tank or fake healer than queuing DPS because at least half the time, the other DPS can't even pull 10k and the tank and healer are "real" tanks and healers. So our DPS is basically whatever I can put out. It's excruciating.

Calm_Fury

josiahva wrote: »

The problem with people trying to set pre-requisites for tanking(taunts, skills, sets, stats) is that not all tanks conform to any such thing. As an example I have magicka-based "tank" I sometimes use for non-DLC vet dungeons that wears Rattlecage and Way of Martial Knowledge(and I think still has Illambris equipped because I havent changed it since the nerf). Max HP on that tank is about 24-25k, resistances in the low 20s, but has 3k spell damage and can push out as much as 30k DPS with the right rotation(depending on how much I have to focus on survival in a given fight). On that tank I simply use damage output on initial aggro to aggro mobs and keep their attention until they die...I do have a taunt slotted in case they don't die before someone starts dealing more damage than me and changes their aggro target...but most times you can hold aggro with damage just fine as long as you aggro the mobs first....it requires a completely different playstyle that taunt-spam and CC based tanking, but it is STILL tanking...and a lot of groups welcome the extra DPS as long as I keep the threats controlled. The point is, that build would never pass a tank check of any sort, even if it does the job just fine in content less than vet DLC dungeons. as @AyaDark said above....someone with an imagination can come up with any number of builds to tank in non-standard ways...what really matters is that they do the job expected of them.

There is only one non-negotiable pre-requisite: taunt the boss and hold aggro on the hard hitting stuff. I don't care if you are full DPS with Inner Fire. As long as you taunt the bosses and the 2 Handers, you can use any build you want. I just don't want to have to tank against my will with a DPS (and considering I have tons of tanks that are my main characters already).

DigitalHype

IWinWithPewPew wrote: »

I faketank 24/7

Why? Because i can . Normal random queue as a tank => 5seconds , normal queue as a dd => sometimes over 20minutes or longer.

In that time i could fake tank 3 dungeons, even if i fail one. Its still worth it more then randomly waiting somewhere for an hour.

That said, as a magsorc (with ward and critical surge ) bosses dont even touch me on normal.

Vet i mostly play dd or premade. But for random normals, i really dont care. Having a tank is actually a lot slowers. Ill take 4dds over 2 dds a tank and a heal any day for normals.

High dps dds, lets say 80, 90k dps can even 4man dd VET trials. The ideal team imo is 3 dds 90k dps and 1 healer

If everyone did this, you'd be right back to a 20m+ queue. It's selfish and inconsiderate. It has nothing to do with how effective you are when doing it.

Calm_Fury

stefj68 wrote: »

problems with vote kicking fake tank, it's somtimes it takes 20-45min to get a replacement tank, you could have done the pledges way faster with your fake tank ...

2 times we vote kick the fake tank, and we were able to 3 man it while waiting for queue replacements

You're missing the point. It is not that is not doable without a tank. It is that this should not be encouraged.

I personally don't even mind slotting inner Fire if we kick a fake tank and can't get a replacement. The important thing is that fake takes shouldn't get the rewards for the dungeon, even if it is easy, if they are doing that via Group Finder.

svendf

Many dps have hp around 19k-22k Health and magical damage round 3000 as my magplar have. A few K above that doesn´t give it any tank status even if you would be able to tank lets say FG1 on normal.

There are some situations were a dps toon can be called anything from a tank to a healer. It all boils down to where the person/persons stand regarding fake tanking or healing.

Tanks have always had high HP and high resistance for survival and low damage seen in relation to dds and healers.

Are you a tank with lets say 22k hp ? Certainly not. Can you tank ? Yes for some dungeons. Should you que as a tank ? No

By definition you are not a tank regardin resistance and hp.

SgtPepperUK

For me it's simple - if you're using the group finder, perform the role you're queueing as, end of.

That's not to say some dungeons can't be done well enough with 3 DDs and a healer (or even 4 DDs) but if you want to go down that route, put it together with guildmates or through zone chat, who will (hopefully) know that you're putting a non-standard group together and are happy with that.

But if you're using GF, perform the role you queue as. It's not fair to three other people who might have been more comfortable with, or even hoped for, the standard set up. You're not giving them a choice if they'd like to run as a non-standard party.

Kurat

If you don't like fake tanks queue for vets. Sometimes you can get a bad tank but I've never seen fake one.
Normals are basically overland and meant for new or inexperienced players. It's ok to "play as you want " in normals.
And not all tanks who seem fake are fake. At least not purposely. Alot of new players simply don't know how roles work. I've seen many no cp tanks who don't know what taunt is.

Xebov

As a tank player i find these threads amusing because ppl analyze around but most ppl dont understand the problem that leads to this situation in the first place. They just want a quick fix for for that.

DDs generally have a longer queue time no matter what MMO you play. This leads to some ppl trying to cut lines in order to get their stuff done faster. Thats something you cannot easily fix. Tanks have a variety of gear and builds that makes it impossible to check it and would also require tanks to wear their gear all the time they queue.

The important question is why are queue times so high for DDs?

A minor aspect is the Dungeon Finder itself. Queueing for one dungeon sometimes doesnt work and reinforcements also often take very long. So there is a minor aspect.

The way bigger aspect is that there are simply not enought tanks. For this there are 2 reasons.
Tanks are generally on the short end of the stick gamewise because they cannot do quests or overland content with their tank gear. So they need additional gear for this.
The way bigger reason are DDs. Many DDs dont deal enought damage for the content they want to run. They are often undergeared and unskilled and dont know any mechanics. At the same time they are also unaware of that and react agressive when told. They also usually expect tanks to be good and dont want to deal with inexperienced tanks. DDs are also the first ones to line up and complain when Tanks call bad DDs out as fake DDs for being unable to perform their role. Strangely enought there is also complaining whenever ZOS it working on the DPS gap to get good and bad DDs closer together.

So long story short. The main reason for having fake Tanks is bad DDs. Tanks pull out of the Dungeon finder and simply play with friends and small groups of suitable players.

Jeremy

AyaDark wrote: »

Guys. I am DD now.

And i think that i can solo any not DLC vet HM.

That is what good DPS does.

If you can not, you are as fake DPS as your fake tanks are.

Was this post sarcastic?

Grandchamp1989

Xebov wrote: »

As a tank player i find these threads amusing because ppl analyze around but most ppl dont understand the problem that leads to this situation in the first place. They just want a quick fix for for that.

DDs generally have a longer queue time no matter what MMO you play. This leads to some ppl trying to cut lines in order to get their stuff done faster. Thats something you cannot easily fix. Tanks have a variety of gear and builds that makes it impossible to check it and would also require tanks to wear their gear all the time they queue.

The important question is why are queue times so high for DDs?

A minor aspect is the Dungeon Finder itself. Queueing for one dungeon sometimes doesnt work and reinforcements also often take very long. So there is a minor aspect.

The way bigger aspect is that there are simply not enought tanks. For this there are 2 reasons.
Tanks are generally on the short end of the stick gamewise because they cannot do quests or overland content with their tank gear. So they need additional gear for this.
The way bigger reason are DDs. Many DDs dont deal enought damage for the content they want to run. They are often undergeared and unskilled and dont know any mechanics. At the same time they are also unaware of that and react agressive when told. They also usually expect tanks to be good and dont want to deal with inexperienced tanks. DDs are also the first ones to line up and complain when Tanks call bad DDs out as fake DDs for being unable to perform their role. Strangely enought there is also complaining whenever ZOS it working on the DPS gap to get good and bad DDs closer together.

So long story short. The main reason for having fake Tanks is bad DDs. Tanks pull out of the Dungeon finder and simply play with friends and small groups of suitable players.

This is a really interesting post.

When you have horrible DPS players they expect you, as the tank, to be very good and hold the enemies in place - even when they can't kill the trash adds. Your talons run out, adds spread out again, so you have to gather all the adds into a ball all over. If you don't do this the DDs literally stand infront of said adds they can't kill until they themselves are killed, because moving around and doing damage is not something they're capable of.

On the other end of the spectrum you'll have DDs with decent damage (not amazing, just decent) and they will not for the life of them allow you (tank) to pull the adds, and gather the adds into a nice tight ball they can burn.
They'll sprint ahead of you and pull everything in sight, having adds spread everywhere - many times run to the boss and pull him too. It's just a total mess you have to try to damage control. Had a run yesterday where I literally told someone "You pull it, you tank it" because he wouldn't stop.

I have seen so many poorly behaved, badly skilled DDs who honestly shouldn't be taking a DD spot.
If you do low damage and love to pull everything in sight why not make a tank? That's essentially what Tank does anyway.

AyaDark

Jeremy wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Guys. I am DD now.

And i think that i can solo any not DLC vet HM.

That is what good DPS does.

If you can not, you are as fake DPS as your fake tanks are.

Was this post sarcastic?

Nope, as example of my fake tanking, hear we are:
https://youtu.be/Y3ALbZ3NuBo

If it is hard to do dps for some players, it is possible to make 2 button builds with 30+ k dps and post it.

Do you want me to do it ?

It will be enough for all vet dunguans and dlc to pass.

Do not care stamina or mana, can post both.

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

As a tank player i find these threads amusing because ppl analyze around but most ppl dont understand the problem that leads to this situation in the first place. They just want a quick fix for for that.

DDs generally have a longer queue time no matter what MMO you play. This leads to some ppl trying to cut lines in order to get their stuff done faster. Thats something you cannot easily fix. Tanks have a variety of gear and builds that makes it impossible to check it and would also require tanks to wear their gear all the time they queue.

The important question is why are queue times so high for DDs?

A minor aspect is the Dungeon Finder itself. Queueing for one dungeon sometimes doesnt work and reinforcements also often take very long. So there is a minor aspect.

The way bigger aspect is that there are simply not enought tanks. For this there are 2 reasons.
Tanks are generally on the short end of the stick gamewise because they cannot do quests or overland content with their tank gear. So they need additional gear for this.
The way bigger reason are DDs. Many DDs dont deal enought damage for the content they want to run. They are often undergeared and unskilled and dont know any mechanics. At the same time they are also unaware of that and react agressive when told. They also usually expect tanks to be good and dont want to deal with inexperienced tanks. DDs are also the first ones to line up and complain when Tanks call bad DDs out as fake DDs for being unable to perform their role. Strangely enought there is also complaining whenever ZOS it working on the DPS gap to get good and bad DDs closer together.

So long story short. The main reason for having fake Tanks is bad DDs. Tanks pull out of the Dungeon finder and simply play with friends and small groups of suitable players.

This is a really interesting post.

When you have horrible DPS players they expect you, as the tank, to be very good and hold the enemies in place - even when they can't kill the trash adds. Your talons run out, adds spread out again, so you have to gather all the adds into a ball all over. If you don't do this the DDs literally stand infront of said adds they can't kill until they themselves are killed, because moving around and doing damage is not something they're capable of.

On the other end of the spectrum you'll have DDs with decent damage (not amazing, just decent) and they will not for the life of them allow you (tank) to pull the adds, and gather the adds into a nice tight ball they can burn.
They'll sprint ahead of you and pull everything in sight, having adds spread everywhere - many times run to the boss and pull him too. It's just a total mess you have to try to damage control. Had a run yesterday where I literally told someone "You pull it, you tank it" because he wouldn't stop.

I have seen so many poorly behaved, badly skilled DDs who honestly shouldn't be taking a DD spot.
If you do low damage and love to pull everything in sight why not make a tank? That's essentially what Tank does anyway.

And i hate the most, that they blame tank.

"It is tanks fault, that he stand with hundreds adds and boss with no support"

"Oh my god, little spider look at me, you are bad tank !"

"Tank, it is your fault, that you do not put 2 ebon alcosh , torug oacts and do not proc it without synergys. If you do we would make not 0 dps but 1000% more. 0 + 1000%= the same 0 by the way".

The most problem of current dd is, that they think that just hit dummy is enough. That is all they want to do. It is all that is needed for dps in their opinion.
It does not work like this !

And they think that they play perfect and others do not. So they will tell you how to play your tank, even if they newer play it. What sets to use and etc.

It is really a pain for tank to hear tones of useless information like this sometimes. But you will, each random group or pug trial run.

"Why no one play tanks ? Such responsible role who can by mistake wipe all 12 people group, that is always blamed for everything ?"

Do you like to do mechanics on DD in trial, that if you lose you wipe all group on your dd by the way ?

I think NOPE is the answer.

x_Nathan_F

VaranisArano wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

And if you do not want fake tanks = do your own Tank, and play it.

It is simple. Just like we do with DD.

I main a tank. Most of the time, I play on my tank characters.

Strangely, however, sometimes I want to play my healer or DDs. And that's when I run into fake tanks.

Then as I face tank the boss (because somebody is going to end up with boss aggro if there's no taunt), I'm left wondering "Why didn't I just queue on my tank? I'd be able to do a better job of tanking and the run would go smoother! Oh, right, foolish me thinking I'd actually get to play my healer or DPS..."

I can relate with you there lol I main tank a lot, in pug groups but whenever I go to DD the tank is also.. A dd. And then I end up with the boss and I'm sat there thinking even not playing tank.. I end up tanking lol.

AyaDark

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

And if you do not want fake tanks = do your own Tank, and play it.

It is simple. Just like we do with DD.

I main a tank. Most of the time, I play on my tank characters.

Strangely, however, sometimes I want to play my healer or DDs. And that's when I run into fake tanks.

Then as I face tank the boss (because somebody is going to end up with boss aggro if there's no taunt), I'm left wondering "Why didn't I just queue on my tank? I'd be able to do a better job of tanking and the run would go smoother! Oh, right, foolish me thinking I'd actually get to play my healer or DPS..."

I can relate with you there lol I main tank a lot, in pug groups but whenever I go to DD the tank is also.. A dd. And then I end up with the boss and I'm sat there thinking even not playing tank.. I end up tanking lol.

Would it be better if you would be tank and another 2 dd will be 2 k dps in sum? It was even more pain for me ... .

svendf

First I haven´t seen or looked at the video above maybe later. Some fake tanking are going well and some not - the most of them doesn´t go very well.

As a princip fake tanking is something I´m not against in anyway as long it´s kept privat and no one is having their gameplay and experience demoralized by it. That´s were I draw the line.

I never had the urge to fake tank or heal, that or fakeing a role, but it did happen once as a accident on my dd magplar. Some how the role must have changed to healer and I discovered it mid dungeon and got very embarrassed by it and apologized for it. I told they have the right to kick me and would understand.

Add some options for people in group tool. 1 privat option were you can que as any role. A 2nd option were you can click something like "official run" were roles are kept strict - meaning you as a tank need to have minimum health, resistance and need certain abilities in slot to fulfilll the tank role.

It can be done

AyaDark

svendf wrote: »

First I haven´t seen or looked at the video above maybe later. Some fake tanking are going well and some not - the most of them doesn´t go very well.

As a princip fake tanking is something I´m not against in anyway as long it´s kept privat and no one is having their gameplay and experience demoralized by it. That´s were I draw the line.

I never had the urge to fake tank or heal, that or fakeing a role, but it did happen once as a accident on my dd magplar. Some how the role must have changed to healer and I discovered it mid dungeon and got very embarrassed by it and apologized for it. I told they have the right to kick me and would understand.

Add some options for people in group tool. 1 privat option were you can que as any role. A 2nd option were you can click something like "official run" were roles are kept strict - meaning you as a tank need to have minimum health, resistance and need certain abilities in slot to fulfilll the tank role.

It can be done

It is not about role, it is about that dunguans is not hard to pass even solo or with fake tank.

The problem with fake tanks only appears when all party is weak.

Why only fake tanks are blamed ? Why not others ? As example fake DDs?

oddbasket

The reasons tanks don't queue group finder are all in this thread quite literally, and they complain the most.

In veteran DLC dungeons, tanks are the carry, but they don't get the respect they deserve. Any other dungeons, they are not a necessity.

Expectations are so skewed between the roles, that those who complain are hypocrites. Only the tank role is expected to perform at top level in any content, normal, normal dlc, vet, vet dlc. However players who play other roles are easy to blame the tank when they are not at the top of their game, healers and dps always give this excuse that it's just normal, you don't need more than 20k dps, or you don't need so much healing, I help more by dpsing.

Only the tank can't give this excuse, such hypocrites. The way I look at it, if a tank with 17k health taunts and tank for you while carrying 50% of your group dps in a vet dungeon, you should be thanking him instead of calling him a fake tank and whining.

svendf

AyaDark wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

First I haven´t seen or looked at the video above maybe later. Some fake tanking are going well and some not - the most of them doesn´t go very well.

As a princip fake tanking is something I´m not against in anyway as long it´s kept privat and no one is having their gameplay and experience demoralized by it. That´s were I draw the line.

I never had the urge to fake tank or heal, that or fakeing a role, but it did happen once as a accident on my dd magplar. Some how the role must have changed to healer and I discovered it mid dungeon and got very embarrassed by it and apologized for it. I told they have the right to kick me and would understand.

Add some options for people in group tool. 1 privat option were you can que as any role. A 2nd option were you can click something like "official run" were roles are kept strict - meaning you as a tank need to have minimum health, resistance and need certain abilities in slot to fulfilll the tank role.

It can be done

It is not about role, it is about that dunguans is not hard to pass even solo or with fake tank.

The problem with fake tanks only appears when all party is weak.

Why only fake tanks are blamed ? Why not others ? As example fake DDs?

Blam fake tanks will be done with if we had two options like the once I mention above. Hunting a boss around in circles, carsting all over the place ? Only one weak link I se there.

I can and will accept faliur if it´s a real tank as everyone have to start somewhere and level up + learn (I´m leveling a 2nd tank myself and know what´s going on). If you que up as a fake knowing it can go wrong and all day really don´t care. No no no not in my book.

Fake dds that´s for another post.

josiahva

svendf wrote: »

Many dps have hp around 19k-22k Health and magical damage round 3000 as my magplar have. A few K above that doesn´t give it any tank status even if you would be able to tank lets say FG1 on normal.

There are some situations were a dps toon can be called anything from a tank to a healer. It all boils down to where the person/persons stand regarding fake tanking or healing.

Tanks have always had high HP and high resistance for survival and low damage seen in relation to dds and healers.

Are you a tank with lets say 22k hp ? Certainly not. Can you tank ? Yes for some dungeons. Should you que as a tank ? No

By definition you are not a tank regardin resistance and hp.

Wrong. you can tank(and be a tank) just fine with 22k health. The CONTENT you can tank is limited however. With 22K health you can tank ANY base game vet dungeon without a problem...you can even tank a few of the vet DLC dungeons(vCoS, vICP, vWGT, maybe a few others). There is no way you are tanking vDoM though...or at least if you do, one little mistake will kill you fast.Max HP matters, but it simply does not matter nearly as much as resistances for all the easier dungeons. Max HP and max resistances are not the only measure of tank...The measure of a tank, is simply performing the role to an adequate degree. If a tank is controlling mobs(whichever method used) taunting the boss and any dangerous ads and not dying all the time...they are tanking. If the "tank" is letting mobs and boss chase the DPS all around the screen and dying to everything...they are not tanking....its really pretty simple. Unconventional tank builds are just fine...even if the tank is putting out 30k+ damage, as long as they are doing their job it simply does not matter...what matters is when someone queues up for tank and then does NOT do their job. BTW...while tanks being buff monkeys is certainly nice for the rest of the group, it is certainly no requirement...and is far more effective in a 12-player setting than a 4-player setting. So if you have a tank with a choice of using buffs to raise group DPS 20k, or tank while doing 20k of their own damage...what do you really care which method they choose? Being a buff monkey tank only becomes more effective when the DPS is good...and lets be honest...how many times is that in a random pug?

I personally now default to sap-type setup on my tank for decent passive damage(about 15k) while tanking non-vet DLCs and even some vet DLCs....but I use dressing room to swap gear/skills at the press of a button going from mobs to bosses. So on a mob or less dangerous boss I may be pulling 15k single target...but for dangerous bosses I drop to 3k and go full tank. This type of constant gear swap play is far more fun than being stuck doing 3k in a full tank setup in a group with pitifully low damage. 15k isnt much....but when damage is really low, it makes dungeons much more enjoyable to tank, doing psuedo-DPS. The key is that you still must do all the needed tanking stuff in addition to whatever DPS you are trying to do.

This is not really much different than when I equip some healing sets like battalion defender or redistributor, and backbar a resto staff in a 3DPS group and take over the role of psuedo-healer. Its multi-roleing and its really not that difficult to do.

Veinblood1965

NO for the love of all that is holy and unholy in ESO not another fake tank thread! While I agree it sucks it's here to stay folks. Now let's see a thread on Fake DPS and I'm all ears.