U28 Combat Preview & Developer Update

Alentarlixia

"In terms of reducing some pain points that Frost Staff users and their groups, we’ll be removing the Auto-Taunt from Tri-focus. The taunt from Frost Staff will instead reside in Frost Clench,"

So people who do not read their skills are now going to taunt with Clench.

L_Nici

"Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power."

Yeah that makes sense, why should someone who invests more thought in build be rewarded the thought alone is ridiculous, thats almost like people who learn will have better grades, how insane is that.

DustyWarehouse

The frost staff changes are weird

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Give Frost Staff users more flexibility to fill the role of a tank, and also give Frost Staff users the opportunity to better fill the roles of support or DPS.

How?

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

A good example of this is the following upcoming adjustments to Wall of Frost/Flame/Shock:

• Lowering the damage done by Wall or Frost compared to Wall of Flame and Shock
• Removing Snare from Wall of Frost
• Casting Wall of Frost will create a Damage shield on you and up to 5 other nearby group members that absorbs projectiles
• Unstable Wall of Frost will apply a weaker version of the Damage Shield when the ability ends

• Lowering the damage of a skill doesn't make it more appealing to a DD
• Removing the snare won't make it more appealing to a tank
• Nice to introduce some group utility I guess?

The changes being proposed don't help DDs or healers at all, unless I am missing something fundamental here. Healers have better utility from lightning staves. And I just can't see how lowering the damage of skills helps a DD?

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In terms of reducing some pain points that Frost Staff users and their groups, we’ll be removing the Auto-Taunt from Tri-focus. The taunt from Frost Staff will instead reside in Frost Clench, and will taunt the enemy for 15 seconds. We believe these changes, along with several others in the Destruction skill line, will help bring some parity between the three damage options for staff users and give greater flexibility to that weapon choice.

This is the crux of what makes using a frost staff painful for DDs and healers. It taunts. Moving the taunt from one place to another won't help with this pain point. Tanks already have a ranged taunt option - it is in the Undaunted skill line. Why have it in the frost staff skill line at all?

DustyWarehouse

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

Also, another great way to reward players who put time and effort into optimising their group composition.

We're now being punished for optimising, and rewarded for not putting in as much effort to our group comp. Thanks.

relentless_turnip

Anyone understand what they're actually doing with buffs/debuffs 😂

It sounds like they're saying if you have less buffs and debuffs in your build you will equate to the same damage as someone that does!? What!? I understand them trying to simplify the game, but from a logical perspective this is lacking...

HeroOfNone

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Give Frost Staff users more flexibility to fill the role of a tank, and also give Frost Staff users the opportunity to better fill the roles of support or DPS.

Look at the qoute, its not simply to "give the most DPS" but better options for DPS and support

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Because Frost Staff is typically only used for tanking and not DPS due to Trifocus. One heavy attack and a DPS pulls the boss around and wipes out the group. With this, Wardens can now weave in attacks without fear of taunting the boss unless they have Frost Clench slotted. If you have a flame/lightning staff back bar to drop down wall of elements you can front bar your ice staff to weave in force pulse without any issue now.

It also gives some utility to add a damage shield to the group for AOE projectile fights, but I believe that's part of the utility change, not a DPS improvement. Especially with how useless snares are with most boss fights.

Did you know you can just... NOT put points into tri-focus to avoid the taunt issue with Ice staves? That being said, ice staves already lack a damage bonus like Flame and Shock, so already DPS lost even without points in tri-focus. Also, Warden's don't use frost staves in Meta because even with the frost passive bonus, overall damage is higher with either flame or shock, and double flame is currently highest, by a small amount.

The shield is meh as far as DPS is concerned. Your response only showed you haven't actually run frost staves on a warden in PvE.

If you don't put points into trifocus you're still losing out on added damage to flame staffs. I don't think this is going to make frost staves jump to the top of the meta, but it certainly is an improvement in how it performs in today's game.

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Looking forward to the return of group queues while keeping solo queue option. Now I'm just hoping they add in a proper ranking system so PVPers have more incentive to win other than medals.

Interested to see how the changes to major/minor buffs will impact things. I hope it will impact malabeth and a warden builds to be lets tanky/heal heavy in PVP, if we're talking about impacting Vitality and Protection specifically.

With the change to Critical, maybe we can see a stat added in for healing in the future, rather than deriving everything from damage and resources. I'd much rather see healers have to build and balance their stats for a bit more build variety.

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't see how those changes to frost staff improve it in the DD role. Making the taunt less confusing doesn't improve its use in the DD role.

These changes, while better than the current, just reinforce the staff as a support staff. Destruction magic/staves are meant for destruction magic. I just don't understand

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

How is lowering one of the main Destruction Staff skills used in PvE helping frost staff be a DPS weapon?
Also, please make sure someone ups the drop chance for fire/shock staves of Medusa. This is ridiculous.

Because Frost Staff is typically only used for tanking and not DPS due to Trifocus. One heavy attack and a DPS pulls the boss around and wipes out the group. With this, Wardens can now weave in attacks without fear of taunting the boss unless they have Frost Clench slotted. If you have a flame/lightning staff back bar to drop down wall of elements you can front bar your ice staff to weave in force pulse without any issue now.

It also gives some utility to add a damage shield to the group for AOE projectile fights, but I believe that's part of the utility change, not a DPS improvement. Especially with how useless snares are with most boss fights.

I'm aware of the taunting thing, I addressed it in my comment. I think everyone else is aware too. When we say ''how does this improve the staff for frost DDs,'' it isn't a genuine ''we genuinely don't understand how making the taunt issue less complicated helps DDs.'' I think we all do.

I don't consider this actual improvement for frost DDs. Heavy attacks offer so little in terms of dps that making this the ONLY change to frost staves that's intended to improve frost DDs (and it's coupled with a DECREASE IN FROST BLOCKADE'S DAMAGE) is so laughable that it feels mocking.

As discussed above, I don't see this taking anything away from the current use of frost staff. Its not the best for DD, but its better than current "whoops I taunted" use. The blockade itsn't top tier DPS, but has more utility now.

Calgrin

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

You are joking, right? Imagine punishing players for knowing how the game works.

emilyhyoyeon

HeroOfNone wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Looking forward to the return of group queues while keeping solo queue option. Now I'm just hoping they add in a proper ranking system so PVPers have more incentive to win other than medals.

Interested to see how the changes to major/minor buffs will impact things. I hope it will impact malabeth and a warden builds to be lets tanky/heal heavy in PVP, if we're talking about impacting Vitality and Protection specifically.

With the change to Critical, maybe we can see a stat added in for healing in the future, rather than deriving everything from damage and resources. I'd much rather see healers have to build and balance their stats for a bit more build variety.

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't see how those changes to frost staff improve it in the DD role. Making the taunt less confusing doesn't improve its use in the DD role.

These changes, while better than the current, just reinforce the staff as a support staff. Destruction magic/staves are meant for destruction magic. I just don't understand

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

How is lowering one of the main Destruction Staff skills used in PvE helping frost staff be a DPS weapon?
Also, please make sure someone ups the drop chance for fire/shock staves of Medusa. This is ridiculous.

Because Frost Staff is typically only used for tanking and not DPS due to Trifocus. One heavy attack and a DPS pulls the boss around and wipes out the group. With this, Wardens can now weave in attacks without fear of taunting the boss unless they have Frost Clench slotted. If you have a flame/lightning staff back bar to drop down wall of elements you can front bar your ice staff to weave in force pulse without any issue now.

It also gives some utility to add a damage shield to the group for AOE projectile fights, but I believe that's part of the utility change, not a DPS improvement. Especially with how useless snares are with most boss fights.

I'm aware of the taunting thing, I addressed it in my comment. I think everyone else is aware too. When we say ''how does this improve the staff for frost DDs,'' it isn't a genuine ''we genuinely don't understand how making the taunt issue less complicated helps DDs.'' I think we all do.

I don't consider this actual improvement for frost DDs. Heavy attacks offer so little in terms of dps that making this the ONLY change to frost staves that's intended to improve frost DDs (and it's coupled with a DECREASE IN FROST BLOCKADE'S DAMAGE) is so laughable that it feels mocking.

As discussed above, I don't see this taking anything away from the current use of frost staff. Its not the best for DD, but its better than current "whoops I taunted" use. The blockade itsn't top tier DPS, but has more utility now.

which does not improve it from a DD standpoint. so we agree?

The taunt change and blockade damage reduction is an overall nerf to frost DDs. So they are not making it a more flexible option for DD--only for supports. That is the issue here

BigBragg

Spit balling for the ice staff here. Have Elemental Blockade keep the snare, and Unstable Wall of Elements gets the shield. Gives some diversity to tank and support builds. I do like the idea of the taunt being moved.

Also thumbs up on the two queues for BGs.

casparian

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Anyone understand what they're actually doing with buffs/debuffs 😂

It sounds like they're saying if you have less buffs and debuffs in your build you will equate to the same damage as someone that does!? What!? I understand them trying to simplify the game, but from a logical perspective this is lacking...

What they're saying is they are rebalancing the value of minor and major debuffs. Compared to someone who is totally optimized right now, the resulting rebalance will be a nerf. Compared to someone who is relatively unoptimized right now, the resulting rebalance will be a buff.

Starlight_Whisper

VaranisArano wrote: »

I understand the risk of splintering the BGs queue, but taking away the choice of game types is not going to help its popularity.

It means that players who just want to Deathmatch get mixed into other game types, which frustrates everyone involved.

It means that players who build for certain objective types will struggle in randomized matches they could formerly avoid, thus diminishing build diversity.

It means that achievement hunters and style page hunters get screwed, having to wait up potentially so much longer for their needed game type to show up.

Yeah I am definitely not as interested in doing it next patch

Calypso589

casparian wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Anyone understand what they're actually doing with buffs/debuffs 😂

It sounds like they're saying if you have less buffs and debuffs in your build you will equate to the same damage as someone that does!? What!? I understand them trying to simplify the game, but from a logical perspective this is lacking...

What they're saying is they are rebalancing the value of minor and major debuffs. Compared to someone who is totally optimized right now, the resulting rebalance will be a nerf. Compared to someone who is relatively unoptimized right now, the resulting rebalance will be a buff.

That's how I read it too.

Endgame min/maxers need to chill. You're not being "punished" for knowing how the game works. You're still going to outperform people who don't optimize.

The REAL question here is will content be scaled in such a way to account for these fluctuating increases and decreases in effectiveness?

HeroOfNone

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Looking forward to the return of group queues while keeping solo queue option. Now I'm just hoping they add in a proper ranking system so PVPers have more incentive to win other than medals.

Interested to see how the changes to major/minor buffs will impact things. I hope it will impact malabeth and a warden builds to be lets tanky/heal heavy in PVP, if we're talking about impacting Vitality and Protection specifically.

With the change to Critical, maybe we can see a stat added in for healing in the future, rather than deriving everything from damage and resources. I'd much rather see healers have to build and balance their stats for a bit more build variety.

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't see how those changes to frost staff improve it in the DD role. Making the taunt less confusing doesn't improve its use in the DD role.

These changes, while better than the current, just reinforce the staff as a support staff. Destruction magic/staves are meant for destruction magic. I just don't understand

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

How is lowering one of the main Destruction Staff skills used in PvE helping frost staff be a DPS weapon?
Also, please make sure someone ups the drop chance for fire/shock staves of Medusa. This is ridiculous.

Because Frost Staff is typically only used for tanking and not DPS due to Trifocus. One heavy attack and a DPS pulls the boss around and wipes out the group. With this, Wardens can now weave in attacks without fear of taunting the boss unless they have Frost Clench slotted. If you have a flame/lightning staff back bar to drop down wall of elements you can front bar your ice staff to weave in force pulse without any issue now.

It also gives some utility to add a damage shield to the group for AOE projectile fights, but I believe that's part of the utility change, not a DPS improvement. Especially with how useless snares are with most boss fights.

I'm aware of the taunting thing, I addressed it in my comment. I think everyone else is aware too. When we say ''how does this improve the staff for frost DDs,'' it isn't a genuine ''we genuinely don't understand how making the taunt issue less complicated helps DDs.'' I think we all do.

I don't consider this actual improvement for frost DDs. Heavy attacks offer so little in terms of dps that making this the ONLY change to frost staves that's intended to improve frost DDs (and it's coupled with a DECREASE IN FROST BLOCKADE'S DAMAGE) is so laughable that it feels mocking.

As discussed above, I don't see this taking anything away from the current use of frost staff. Its not the best for DD, but its better than current "whoops I taunted" use. The blockade itsn't top tier DPS, but has more utility now.

which does not improve it from a DD standpoint. so we agree?

The taunt change and blockade damage reduction is an overall nerf to frost DDs. So they are not making it a more flexible option for DD--only for supports. That is the issue here

Wall of Frost is being made more of a utility skill for back bar healers. I believe the expectation is if you're a DD user, you'd have fire/lighting on the back with your Wall, and then use your Ice staff front bar for a rotation. that fits the comment "better fill the roles of support or DPS." I don't see anything here that really nerfs ice staffs from the current meta, as most would still backbar lightning or fire depending on the situation

The removal of the taunt in trifocus I think helps DD users, as it was a huge liability to invest into it as a frost staff user. Now what they replace that with, and what Brian means by

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We believe these changes, along with several others in the Destruction skill line, will help bring some parity between the three damage options for staff users and give greater flexibility to that weapon choice.

Will have the greater impact. Again, I don't see any nerf to ice staffs removing the taunt from trifocus, though the devil will be in the details with how they change other things in destruction line

CaffeinatedMayhem

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Because Frost Staff is typically only used for tanking and not DPS due to Trifocus. One heavy attack and a DPS pulls the boss around and wipes out the group. With this, Wardens can now weave in attacks without fear of taunting the boss unless they have Frost Clench slotted. If you have a flame/lightning staff back bar to drop down wall of elements you can front bar your ice staff to weave in force pulse without any issue now.

It also gives some utility to add a damage shield to the group for AOE projectile fights, but I believe that's part of the utility change, not a DPS improvement. Especially with how useless snares are with most boss fights.

Answer me this... why would I use a Frost staff on front bar and give up the bonus damage of fire/shock? (heavy attack damage bonus from tri-focus PLUS either 8% increased AoE or single target damage)

In case you weren't aware - Shalk is a FRONT BAR skill on magwarden. So is either force pulse or cliff diver. Back bar skills are Wall and Impaling Shards. I could put orb on my back bar, but it's easier to cast from front. The main reason magicka wardens do not use frost staves is NOT the taunt issue... it's the lack of damage bonus issue.

Minor Berserk on front bar currently does NOT make up for using a staff without a damage bonus. Wardens ice damage bonuses do not bring them on par with other classes. Also, the best way to apply chilled is with the warden back bar skills - Wall and Impaling Shards.

With Medusa I can finally get my magwarden to come close to the damage of my Sorc... that's with the sorc wearing false gods and no CA, and the warden wearing medusa and ice staves. If I could get fire/shock staves for the warden, damage would finally be equal to my sorc wearing "inferior" gear. That's still not making a case for Warden's using frost staves for damage.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

First off, let’s talk about the Major/Minor system. Originally, buffs and debuffs were designed as standard abilities, meaning they had to go through the same calculations as all abilities. As we have been moving towards making combat more performant, we identified this as a key area where we could get better performance due to how prevalent buffs/debuffs are in battles. As such, we’re shifting the buffs/debuffs system so they are calculated on the server much in the same way as Sprint and Block. With Major/Minor effects no longer being standard abilities, they will be more performant per calculation as they won’t go through the same process as other abilities do in a fight. This “hardcoding” of Majors/Minors will also make them less prone to incorrect stacking and mismatched values.

Kudos/props to the programming team for even being able to CONCEIVE of this method of improving the combat performance, never mind actually figuring out how to make the changes (hopefully without breaking tons of other stuff). This part of the back end code has got to be seriously complex.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

During this change, we also adjusted buffs/debuffs to bring them more in-line with our standards for item sets and abilities. This was also combined with the overall goals to increase sustain, decrease damage done, and increase damage taken. Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

So if I understand this correctly, the top vet trial teams will probably notice the major/minor buff changes more than anyone else...? (It's a lot easier for the best players to notice a decrease in performance than it is to notice a buff, which is easier for lesser players to put down to luck or "I finally got gud".)

ClikC

ZoS: We're going to improve the functionality of frost staff for tanking.

Also ZoS: We're changing the function of Wall of Element with Frost Staff, to make it worse for tanking.

Players: <sarcasm> Good Job. </sarcasm>

Ddog222123

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

As we have been moving towards making combat more performant, we identified this as a key area where we could get better performance due to how prevalent buffs/debuffs are in battles.

Or you could just upgrade your potato servers? lol

Dusk_Coven

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In terms of reducing some pain points that Frost Staff users and their groups, we’ll be removing the Auto-Taunt from Tri-focus. The taunt from Frost Staff will instead reside in Frost Clench, and will taunt the enemy for 15 seconds.

People who didn't read Tri-Focus won't read Destructive Touch either.
Are people using Destructive Touch so little that they can move Frost Staff taunt there?

DustyWarehouse

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In terms of reducing some pain points that Frost Staff users and their groups, we’ll be removing the Auto-Taunt from Tri-focus. The taunt from Frost Staff will instead reside in Frost Clench, and will taunt the enemy for 15 seconds.

People who didn't read Tri-Focus won't read Destructive Touch either.
Are people using Destructive Touch so little that they can move Frost Staff taunt there?

RIP anyone using a Master's frost staff in PvE. Not that anyone does anyway...

Cayr

I'm sorry, but how the heck does this "give more flexibility to the role of tank"? Snare from Frost Wall for CC and the taunt that you didn't have to spend an active slot or resources on, were the only reasons to use the bloody thing for tanking in the first place.

Kolzki

For Critical Damage, Critical Chance, and Critical Resist, this...

naturally balances itself in PvP scenarios, that is not the case in PvE situations; this already powerful stat is slowly creeping up in power with each update and global increase in damage.

So pvp balance is fine but not pve. Crit damage in pve is high from things like the shadow and force and there’s no pve crit resist, making it beneficial to stack into crit, yeah?

The main cause of this imbalance is the ease of access to gain Critical Chance in our game

Oh, apparently not looks like crit sets will be even more essential for pve next patch.

code65536

Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

If the goal is to close the power gap between the ceiling and the middle, then unique buffs that don't even exist in the Minor/Major system should be a higher priority. Sets like Powerful Assault, Martial Knowledge, Z'en, Catalyst or debuffs from skills like Stagger. These buffs are harder to source and maintain and contribute more to the gap enjoyed by the ceiling than the more-accessible Majors/Minors.

hammayolettuce

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

will CCs and CC immunity be addressed in this update? Right now the biggest pain points in PVP are unbreakable CCs that require at least three uses of break free to get out of- draining all stamina. That’s a big part of why everyone has 30k+ health in Cyrodiil. We expect to get hit with every CC at once and be stuck for a good 3-4 seconds eating damage because break free doesn’t do anything and purge isn’t smart.

Also, gap closers and single target abilities don’t work in lag.

Group meta in cyrodiil is built around these issues (and crit resist, which should be an interesting change)

Solariken

Can we just create a new staff type, Alteration or whatever, for tanking? Frost is DESTRUCTION magic, let us destroy things with it.

TheInvalidUsername

There is not a single reason that I can think of that will justify the injustice done to Ice Staff.

Why has Wall of Fire not been nerfed in over 6 years where Wall of Frost has been the red headed stepchild of destruction staff skills since launch? Ice Staff needs damaging passives.

Support already has an element, Shock. Concussion, ie Minor Vulnerability, ie Off Balance is sourced from Shock damage. We don’t need a 2nd one. All that will do is reinforce the Flame Staff mets that has been present since launch. Giving Ice Staff damaging passives, like say

- Increase the damage of your Damage over Time effects by X%.

Or

- Increase your Spell Critical by X%

Or

- Increase your damage done to Snared enemies by 8%. (Wall of Frost snare anyone?)

Just SOMETHING that gives Ice Staff a unique bonus to damage that allows it to be competitive with Fire Staff, without it becoming too strong where everyone runs it without question.

As for the critical changes: while the current meta of 3 Necros and 5 Nightblades is abhorrant on its own, Crit needs to be adjusted. Magicka DPS has run Mother’s Sorrow since One Tamriel. Stamina DPS has run Berserking Warrior since Summerset. The crit meta has been here longer than it should have been. While those sets on their own are good sets and probably always will be, we need a more diverse endgame. Nerfing crit into the ground **is not the way to fix this issue**.

The way to fix this issue is to change older (or make new) sets to be competitive or give DPS sets that would primarily be designated for Support. Elemental Catalyst is a perfect example of such a set (although it just reinforces the Nightblade meta because CRIT). It’s a set that was initially going to just be thrown on support (it still can be thrown on a warden or necro healer) but got ADJUSTED to become a support DPS set.

Other examples of sets that could do this:

- The Morag Tong
- Roar of Alkosh
- Infallible Mage (even though warden exists)
- Z’en’s Redress
- Roaring Opportunist
- The Way of Martial Knowledge

There are also countless other sets that could be reworked into a group function set. While I understand that not every set should affect others, a little bit of diversity would go a LONG way for the health of the game.

Corellon Thromorin

Solariken wrote: »

Can we just create a new staff type, Alteration or whatever, for tanking? Frost is DESTRUCTION magic, let us destroy things with it.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Proposal:_Schools_of_Magic

Alteration or Thaumaturgy Staves seem like good contenders.

Dusk_Coven

DustyWarehouse wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In terms of reducing some pain points that Frost Staff users and their groups, we’ll be removing the Auto-Taunt from Tri-focus. The taunt from Frost Staff will instead reside in Frost Clench, and will taunt the enemy for 15 seconds.

People who didn't read Tri-Focus won't read Destructive Touch either.
Are people using Destructive Touch so little that they can move Frost Staff taunt there?

RIP anyone using a Master's frost staff in PvE. Not that anyone does anyway...

Whatever specific staff they were using is irrelevant. The point is people were clearly using a Frost Staff but not intending to tank. That means dps. So apparently frost staff is actually being used for dps. Otherwise taunt accidents wouldn't be such an issue.

Now people genuinely using a Frost Staff to taunt have to sacrifice a skill to put in Destructive Clench or some other taunt.
And people who were using Frost clench for the immobilize (were there people doing that?) now have to watch out for the taunt in case they accidentally hit the boss. Fewer accidents maybe but legit frost staff tanks having to shuffle their skills because people can't be bothered to read the tooltip for Tri-Focus. Sheesh.

emilyhyoyeon

DustyWarehouse wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In terms of reducing some pain points that Frost Staff users and their groups, we’ll be removing the Auto-Taunt from Tri-focus. The taunt from Frost Staff will instead reside in Frost Clench, and will taunt the enemy for 15 seconds.

People who didn't read Tri-Focus won't read Destructive Touch either.
Are people using Destructive Touch so little that they can move Frost Staff taunt there?

RIP anyone using a Master's frost staff in PvE. Not that anyone does anyway...

thankfully one of the morphs will be free from the taunt, but still awful frost staff changes overall

Iridrake

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

So, why would you ever reward players that put less efforts into the game more than players that literally bleed themselves out to get better at it?

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The main cause of this imbalance is the ease of access to gain Critical Chance in our game; we have a large amount of passive Crit enabled from passive abilities (Armor, Champion Points, Base Chance). On top of this, the raw standard of Crit Chance is higher than other DPS stats which results in stacking Crit being incredibly powerful. Due to this, certain classes scale more effectively in group content, resulting in “just stack X” in our end-game meta. While this is somewhat mitigated in PvP with Critical Resistance, we still hear a large number of complaints about the line certain classes teeter on in terms of balance in PvE as a result (either too strong, or we nerf them and they become too weak in other areas).

As such, we have created a new combined stat for Critical Chance which is a combination of Spell and Weapon Crit. This means if you see an item that grants 106 Critical Chance, it’s giving you both Spell and Weapon Crit. With this change, we are adjusting many sources of Critical Chance so they grant the new stat. This also results in fewer effects you need to track on your character. We’re making several other adjustments to individual stat faucets, such as reducing the amount of Critical Chance you can get from Champion Points and lowering the value of the Thief Mundus and Precise trait. We know this is only a small step in the larger picture of combat regarding Criticals, which we plan to continue in U29. We believe these changes will bring about better experiences, from the moment-to-moment combat to formulating your groups for Trials and PvP.

The imbalance does not depend on crit chance at all. Last patch was perfectly balanced, all magicka classes for example were able to produce more or less the same dps and they were all perfectly viable, playable, enjoyable, without having a single one of them outperforming the others, until you decided to overbuff Nightblade, so you'd better focus on specific classes passives and base damage than crit chance.
Also, why would I ever care if a set provides me with double stat crit chance? If I'm playing magicka, I'm only looking for spell crit and I'm not giving a damn if I get weapon crit, come on!

DustyWarehouse

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

DustyWarehouse wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In terms of reducing some pain points that Frost Staff users and their groups, we’ll be removing the Auto-Taunt from Tri-focus. The taunt from Frost Staff will instead reside in Frost Clench, and will taunt the enemy for 15 seconds.

People who didn't read Tri-Focus won't read Destructive Touch either.
Are people using Destructive Touch so little that they can move Frost Staff taunt there?

RIP anyone using a Master's frost staff in PvE. Not that anyone does anyway...

Whatever specific staff they were using is irrelevant. The point is people were clearly using a Frost Staff but not intending to tank. That means dps. So apparently frost staff is actually being used for dps. Otherwise taunt accidents wouldn't be such an issue.

Now people genuinely using a Frost Staff to taunt have to sacrifice a skill to put in Destructive Clench or some other taunt.
And people who were using Frost clench for the immobilize (were there people doing that?) now have to watch out for the taunt in case they accidentally hit the boss. Fewer accidents maybe but legit frost staff tanks having to shuffle their skills because people can't be bothered to read the tooltip for Tri-Focus. Sheesh.

Very true. Having taunt in a passive keeps a bar slot free for something else. But a ranged taunt already exists in the Undaunted skill line already, so I don't see why it should need to be in the frost staff at all if it isn't in the tri-focus or some other passive. The downside of having it in a passive is exactly what you describe, many DDs unintentionally taking aggro. Which leads me back to what I originally thought when they first made frost staff changes for tanking - a frost staff just isn't suited to being used for tanking. All it does is make it less relevant for what it was originally intended for - destruction (DPS).