U28 Combat Preview & Developer Update

ZrZone

It really sounds like they're nerfing crit to the point where malacath + proc sets is gonna be the only way to go. With this, they're essentially killing two birds with one stone.
1. raising the skill floor and lowering the skill ceiling for pvp
2. Making the p2w ring like malacath even more p2w.

Honestly at this point, I'm fine with doing away with every damage proc set in the game. Flat stat sets like spriggans or new moon would actually lower the amount of calculations needed inside of cyrodil.

OldManJim

But when do we get rapids back?

Sedrethi

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

My Frost Warden is happy to see changes finally being made for Frost Staves.

However, I'd like to discuss the example proposed solution to the Wall of Frost change. The goal is to make it more accessible and viable to all roles (damage dealer, tank, support (healer)), correct?

Lowering the damage of Elemental Wall for Frost-users does the opposite of improving its viability in DPS scenarios, seeing as Elemental Wall is one of the largest contributors to overall damage over the course of an encounter in general for any Magicka Damage Dealer's repertoire. Unless other Frost abilities are going to see a slight bump in damage to make up for the difference, this doesn't help.

As far as removing the snare, that takes away some of a tank's options of soft crowd control, which makes the Frost Staff a little less attractive as an option. Sure, they might still slot it to apply the full effect of a Crushing Enchant, but they could do that with a Lightning Staff, too, which is what many do already. I don't think this is the right approach for tanks.

Tacking on a Damage Shield, after applying the previous two changes, only makes the ability somewhat more attractive for a support builds, however the prevalence of the powerful Off-Balance (and Minor Vulnerability through Concussed) status effect again makes the Lightning Staff the better support option.

Concerning passives, there needs to be some equivalent to Fire's and Lightning's 8% bonus to single-target and multi-target damage, respectively. Perhaps something like improved Spell Critical Chance, Spell Critical Damage, or Spell Penetration?

Also, the taunt would be a better fit for the Elemental Susceptibility morph that hardly anyone chooses (in favor of Elemental Drain), seeing as Frost Clench might still see some use on the DPS side so a taunt tethered to that may not be so wise.

I replied to the Nightblade and Warden pain point threads in the past, and at least one of my suggestions seemed to come through (allowing Path of Darkness to affect allies with the bonus movement speed), so here's to hoping again.

Thank you for your time.

Aluna

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

And for the love of god, if you are going to introduce ‘several new sets’ can you finally give us more storage space? With the rate you change sets and everything else, you never know what old set might come in handy. Plus wanting to test them all out... we need more storage. Not 5 slots from a crown store per, but 5 new storage coffers or significantly increased bank space. Even with ESO plus, it is just not cutting it any longer.

Glad someone brings that up as well. I own all home storages and they are full. My bank is maxed and full. I have 10 chars with maxed inventory and 3 are abused for acting like another storage. Even my guild bank is full. And I havent even started actively farming the tons of sets I would need for being a well prepared end-game healer. I cant, in fact, as there is no space, which is the one reason why its the only role I dont play yet.

What exactly was the plan there anyway with creating loads of new sets every few months? You think we only farm the new meta sets and decon all of the old gear that turned bad that patch? Maybe we would do that if you finally stopped constantly changing everything about this games combat system and sets that are as old as the game

FlamingBeard

Battlegrounds queue change is pointless without being able to choose game mode.

Deathmatch is the obvious choice of most hardcore PvPers because nobody wanting to do regular PvP wants to fight a group of tanks and healers in Crazy King and Chaos Ball, or chase a stamsorc across the entire map in Capture the Relic.

Please reconsider the removal of mode selection or you'll end up losing more BG queue population than you'd gain from group queue returning.

olsborg

BohnT2 wrote: »

How about looking into the big PvP issues right now?

Proc builds and malacath
HP above 30k on every build
Stamina necromancer and warden

This, so very much this. Malacath is so strong even on noprocc builds, because you can just forego crit entirely even in heavy armor and you will be better for it.

rrimöykk

You buff crit sets for Stonethorn so everyone needs to farm Medusa/AY and then, a bit over month later you decide to nerf crit all together? What an utterly poor combat development. No wonder you have positions open for lead development teams as you clearly have no clue of your own game.

Thornen

montiferus wrote: »

LOL. Reading this makes me realize this company doesn't have the first clue. Everyone please find a better game to play.

They have never had a clue, they don't play the game. Their dev team is basically like putting some homeless bum in charge of the NASDAQ if you don't understand it why are you making decisions about it.

2020 adds ESO to the rip list

Fran_Morningstar88

"Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power."

Does it sound only to me that players with no idea of what it is a build will get better?
And now players who are good are going to get worse?

Its really a pity that a game with such potential is getting ruined EVERY TIME from what (who knows what?) you guys are trying to do.

We all have might appreciate the tentative of trying to fix the lag, which is still there (but no one expects to be fixed in, let's say.. one week. It's not like you guys have a Combat Team to do it), but I personally think that now is getting too far.

Do you even care about your players?
Probably yes, but just a part of them... And we all know What that part is.
Casual players.
And even if you are targeting a causal player game based where people are going just to push 1 button, with no build not so ever and no player skill, where is the THRILL in it? Of achieving something or improving?

Really hope this post is not gonna be deleted, since I've been told you don't like it when people are publishing "bad" things (and I wasn't impolite or rude)

Here are anyway some of the many comments that people are saying around many discord channels

[snip]

[snip]

[Picture removed for Censor Bypass]

ESO_Nightingale

I mean most people don't want the frost staff to be for tanking but screw those people amirite? Lowering the already pitiful damage on frost wall? Why? How does that help dps? We need legitimate adjustments to the passives to move the tanking aspects to the skills people don't use rather than pinning dps to a tanky base weapon. Moving the taunt to frost clench is an okay step but elemental susceptibility is still hot garbage.

Atherakhia

Look, I'm fine with you guys making changes to Frost Staff and Crit chance and all, but are these really the most pressing issues right now?

I would agree with the general sentiment that Destruction Staff in general has problems. The absolute least among them is probably related to Ice Staff and its role as a damage dealing weapon. Half the skills get no play at all unless the player has a corresponding monster weapon set to go with it. Classes can't afford to dual wield destruction staffs in PvP and because Destruction staff increases damage, most classes can't afford to put all the skills they need on the destruction staff bar and still have room for other support skills on the weapon. And then you have poor passives on top of this. Why would you focus on Ice Staff DPS as a primary goal for improvement for this weapon?

And the same with Crit Chance. Is this really an issue of such pressing concern that it would outweigh other issues like the simple fact that no one likes CP and it's a hinderance to the game and not a benefit? How long have we been hearing that a CP overhaul is coming? Half the classes in this game need an indepth overhaul at this point. The game simply doesn't work in Cyrodiil at all and PvP outside of Cyrodiil is an unbalanced mess.

Please get your priorities in order and delivering on issues that actually matter and would actually attract players. No one wants this stuff.

Styxius

I think having sources of crit be more open is honestly good, I think buffing the sources of WD for some other classes to counteract it would certainly be interesting.

Styxius

Random side note, stop nerfing us, please. Frost staff snare should remain, the shielding effect is cool I would hate to lose the taunt on the heavy attack for bar space as a tank. Crit is great for PvE, and I love how it works right now. The group BG Queue is going to be amazing though to have back. Seriously leave the Tri-focus alone and the snare. Add the shield that's nice. Don't combine the crit, we are having too many of these, "everything becomes one" concept mentality. We like variety, so please leave them be.

Canned_Apples

So more nerfs to skill based gameplay and more buffs to proc sets.

Thanks @ZOS_Gilliam ! This is exactly what we’ve been asking for!

pma_pacifier

Casterial wrote: »

During this change, we also adjusted buffs/debuffs to bring them more in-line with our standards for item sets and abilities. This was also combined with the overall goals to increase sustain, decrease damage done, and increase damage taken. Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

In other news you're nerfing the skill floor, skill ceiling and making horrible players good players? You aren't respecting players who take time to learn their builds, build their build, and take time to get good are being nerfed further while players who just went "Youtube said" or "Well it works in pve" can now be skilled?

Stop making your game dumbed down, this is the 4th or 5th patch you've directly dumbed down the skill ceiling.

"You aren't respecting players who take time to learn their builds..."

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly together with many many manyyy other plays who put time, effort, crowns/money into the game. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Strider__Roshin

BohnT2 wrote: »

How about looking into the big PvP issues right now?

Proc builds and malacath
HP above 30k on every build
Stamina necromancer and warden

Oh you mean issues that ZOS created and then exacerbated last update? Yeah good luck on that. I'm still waiting on cast times to be removed from "instant" cast abilities.

ESO_Nightingale

VaranisArano wrote: »

A while back, I made the joke that whichever dev was responsible for Frost Staff must have slipped on an icy parking lot before they worked on its abilities.

I'm delighted to see that Frost Staff is finally getting improvements!

i don't think it really is from what has been shown here. the only thing that is good is moving the taunt off the passive

Olupajmibanan

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

During this change, we also adjusted buffs/debuffs to bring them more in-line with our standards for item sets and abilities. This was also combined with the overall goals to increase sustain, decrease damage done, and increase damage taken. Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

Did I misread this? We are going to reward players that do not give a ... about group optimization and punish those that do?

This game always cattered to casuals exclusively, but now it is directly at the expense of end-game players.

Welkynar

I try not to be negative, but this post is really scaring me. I would be fine if there was a way to increase damage done for non-optimized players (which is great for everyone!), but I feel comfortable with the current optimal damage. However, one thing I do want is more build diversity to reach around optimal damage for each class. So idk...

ccfeeling

Please give me the reason I pick clench taunt instead of inner fire?
Inner fire has lower cost and no weapon requirement.

New staff, new team?

oXI_Viper_IXo

Wow, this "combat" team is really bound and determined to raise the floor and lower the ceiling to the point where only the most casual of players will be able to enjoy the game.

It is seriously disheartening to see a game I once loved so much, which had a fast paced and fluid combat system that rewarded skillful gameplay, to be constantly dumbed down and slowed down update after update.

It's pretty obvious that they're only interested in a high turnover rate of super casual players that will spend some money in the crown store rather than retaining their veteran and long-term players.

Update after update I find my desire to stick around growing less and less.

I can't wait to see how they butcher the CP system in their new and improved version...yikes.

Mojomonkeyman

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

During this change, we also adjusted buffs/debuffs to bring them more in-line with our standards for item sets and abilities. This was also combined with the overall goals to increase sustain, decrease damage done, and increase damage taken. Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

The crusade against veteran players who took the time to learn your game game feels a bit insulting at this point. After all, we've been sticking with you for years, providing a stable core playerbase, supporting you financially, investing time into testing things whenever you decided to do a 180 on your vision, investing even more time writing endless pages of feedback after testing, creating guides & analysis and probably a hundred other things your business and the less invested parts of the community benefit from, directly and indirectly.

After all this time, why not giving back to us veterans? Show some love.

So far we are getting the constant notion, that taking time & effort to learn your ever-changing rulesets is regarded as an offense that needs to be counteracted & eliminated. Honest question, why should I feel inclined to support a game that treats me like an enemy?

satanio

Hello Brian,
I understood. Crit bonuses relatively outperform every other damage bonuses, that is true. But Stamina stat underperforms in comparison to WD and crit. What about that? And recovery bonuses? Penetration has a "cap" but unless the cap is met, pene set bonus is the strongest compared to any other. What about that? What is the end goal for set bonuses anyways?

Please, dont forget that the content may need adjustment after the damage nerf. Some goals may be unobtainable.

Thanks for the effort to make the frost staff less dangerous . However, fanbase suggestion to create a new unique skill line for "magicka" tanking is not that bad and could solve the potential issues that will come even after these proposed changes.

ON/OFF switches for buffs may help the server.

Group Q is nice. Thanks for that.

keto3000

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

re: FROST STAFF DPS:

Might be interesting to have

FROST light attack- hurls a'freeze/slow' icicle at target (s) , while

FROST heavy attack- channels chilling ray of stacks until full heavy freezes the target . Similar to a incremental slow death 'petrify' type of damage.

I remember using this type of skill on a NEVERWINTER Control Wizard build.

Sarousse

@ZOS_BrianWheeler and nothing about Wrecking Blow being the only viable (and OP) melee move in PvP ?

olsborg

Sarousse wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler and nothing about Wrecking Blow being the only viable (and OP) melee move in PvP ?

Wrecking blow too widely used ergo too strong atm. Not necessarily nerf it, but put other stuff on par with it.

Moonsorrow

Not gonna comment on other parts, the crit changes and all before know more details (sounds scary though..), but i LIKE the Taunt on Frost Clench and have personally wished it for years so that is good news.

But PLEASE do make it as functional as Pierce Armor (to have same kind of bar space situation than with SnB without having to put extra resistance debuffs in separately) so put the same Major Breach and Major Fracture on that skill too so Frost Staff is then nearly as viable as a main bar tanking weapon as SnB, SnB still has some better passives (like taking less projectile damage) and extra Glyph and so on. Also do consider Frost Staff also getting the moving a bit faster while Blocking passive as what SnB has.

Make the Frost Clench range shorter to match the SnB taunt functionality and to not make some nasty things possible at PVP, so it would not then get nerfed due to that if does some pre-emptive thinking and modification on it.

Would be nice to have Frost Staff being a fully viable "front bar" tanking weapon choice with SnB and not just a back bar option most often to juggle blocking with stam or mag. Currently been SnB/Lightning staff most often or SnB/Bow. So would be nice and FUN to be able to go even Frost/Lightning and be fully functional and competitive at all tanking tasks event at the most challenging Vet content, thank you!

@ZOS_Gilliam Pretty please make Frost Clench as functional as Pierce Armor with same debuffs. You know you want to.

EDIT: Group queue coming back to Battlegrounds is awesome AND having solo queue also, so big thanks for that decision!

Sarousse

Also please watch out by nerfing crit too much or everybody will end using Malacath Ring.

Firstmep

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

"Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power."

Yeah that makes sense, why should someone who invests more thought in build be rewarded the thought alone is ridiculous, thats almost like people who learn will have better grades, how insane is that.

I'm sick of always being dragged down to the lowest common denominator, have enough of that in real life and can't escape it in ESO either...

Eso is the first game I've played where they balance around the lowest skill levels.
It has stop.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

During this change, we also adjusted buffs/debuffs to bring them more in-line with our standards for item sets and abilities. This was also combined with the overall goals to increase sustain, decrease damage done, and increase damage taken. Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

The crusade against veteran players who took the time to learn your game game feels a bit insulting at this point. After all, we've been sticking with you for years, providing a stable core playerbase, supporting you financially, investing time into testing things whenever you decided to do a 180 on your vision, investing even more time writing endless pages of feedback after testing, creating guides & analysis and probably a hundred other things your business and the less invested parts of the community benefit from, directly and indirectly.

After all this time, why not giving back to us veterans? Show some love.

So far we are getting the constant notion, that taking time & effort to learn your ever-changing rulesets is regarded as an offense that needs to be counteracted & eliminated. Honest question, why should I feel inclined to support a game that treats me like an enemy?

Wish I could leave multiple agrees on this post.
The current proc meta is already the top of iceberg for skillless gameplay.
I can literally apply 3-4 procsets with 1 button from max range and never commit to any fight in pvp.
How much easier do you guys want to make it on casuals?
Newsflash, experienced players are still wiping the floor with casuals, we have the most optimized procs.
I can literally wipe entire raids on my azureblight sorc with minimal effort, and I'm not even a top tier player.
Please stop trying to change the game around the lowest common denominator.
You are insulting even the casual players, not just veterans.
What this game needs is a well tought out mentoring system, that would help newer players get into the more complex systems in this game.
It could also bridge the gap between the so called elitist and casual players.
Stop destroying your game for no reason.
Or create systems that allow players that want to be competitive to do so, away from those don't.
Wow does this well, learn from them.

Brederode

This, in turn, led us down the path to give the Frost Staff greater viability for doing things other than tanking. The end result was a focus on two changes: Give Frost Staff users more flexibility to fill the role of a tank, and also give Frost Staff users the opportunity to better fill the roles of support or DPS.

A good example of this is the following upcoming adjustments to Wall of Frost/Flame/Shock:

• Lowering the damage done by Wall of Frost compared to Wall of Flame and Shock
• Removing Snare from Wall of Frost
• Casting Wall of Frost will create a Damage shield on you and up to 5 other nearby group members that absorbs projectiles
• Unstable Wall of Frost will apply a weaker version of the Damage Shield when the ability ends

Where is the logic in this? You want Frost Staff to become more viable for DPS yet you lower the damage done of Wall of Frost as well as removing the snare? Don't you guys see how completely backwards this is?

In my opinion, adding Minor Vulnerability (+8% damage taken) to Wall of Frost would have been a much better choice if you want it to become something thats both useful for the Tanks and DPS. Most tanks already use Shock Staff over Frost Staff purely for the off-balance it provides, which in turn allows DPS to do more damage.