U28 Combat Preview & Developer Update

Major_Lag

x48rph wrote: »

For the love of god just please, stop. Stop with the constant changes. Stop with the overhauls, Stop with the spreadsheet warrior attitude. In no other game do i have to constantly change my build so much so often. You don't even let the dust settle from one round before your off on another round of changes. Heck, now we even get some in the incremental patches. You can't possible tell me you've done any kind of decent evaluation on the changes from the last patch and here you are, already working on a new round. Give it a rest. This constant, never ending shake up every couple months is why I didn't even bother to renew my subscription. When you decide to move the game back out of BETA status and cease with the constant overhauls, give me a ring and I might consider playing more again, until then, I got better games to play that don't nullify peoples hard work every couple of months. Have fun with your spreadsheets that have absolutely destroyed class identity and the uniqueness of eso combat......

^ THIS ^

ESO combat (PvE/PvP) looks like it has no future now. Game's only good for housing and fashion endgame. Shame, that.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler:
Frost staff - still not viable for DPS after the changes, also it's not viable for tanking either unless Frost Clench will give at least Major Fracture in addition to a taunt (Major Breach we can already get from Ele Drain).
Some source of Minor Heroism would also be nice to have. Not to mention a magicka chain, although that kinda doesn't fit with the frost staff's theme.
Losing the snare is a big middle finger to its support utility though. The damage shield had better be VERY strong to make up for that.

Minor/Major (de)/buffs - from the description I presume it will be a change from % based modifiers to flat values?
Good, that will help the absolutely mediocre DDs in random groups suck slightly less than they do currently. As +X% to nothing is still nothing. Such a change would make such buffs a lot more impactful in low performing groups, which is a godsend for PUGging dungeons.

BG queue: ah, that reminds me of the good old days (in non MMO games) where maps were on a fixed or random rotation and you got a grab bag of game modes.
Personally I don't mind it that much, but I can certainly appreciate why many people would be discouraged from playing.

Major_Lag

Oops, double post, please delete

rrimöykk

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that they're only interested in a high turnover rate of super casual players that will spend some money in the crown store rather than retaining their veteran and long-term players.

Casuals don't buy crowns, the rest of us do: pve and pvp players and the housing community. Yet they keep pushing us away patch after patch.

Faint_One

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't see how those changes to frost staff improve it in the DD role. Making the taunt less confusing doesn't improve its use in the DD role.

These changes, while better than the current, just reinforce the staff as a support staff. Destruction magic/staves are meant for destruction magic. I just don't understand





EDIT:
Honestly, the way ZOS can ACTUALLY make frost have the flexibility they seem to be talking about can easily be done as:

each elemental destro staff ability gets a damage morph and a utility morph
add frost damage passives (just give it the 8% single target like fire)
make a separate magicka blocking passive that applies to any elemental staff

blockade: one morph is small and does damage, second morph is larger and has utility
touch: one morph has the utility, second morph has the DOT
impulse: (wasn't proposed with a utility change in the OP)

This still isn't as previously-established-lore-appropriate as making a mag tanking staff like alteration, illusion, etc., but it is way better.

I prefer another way to improve ice staff on dd
which passively get damage increase both on aoe and single by 4%，and blockade deals more damage base on how much sources of moving debuff on targets，especially affect by chilled ，this can get benefit by ice’s snaring itself and more like NB cripple，DK ash cloud，sun fire of templar etc.
just make the value in line，and only for different play style，same way buff lightning staff by a little in single target fight is viable

Iskaldt

Seriously ?!

How is this an improvement to frost staffs ??

You remove snare and reduce the damage on one of the main DAMAGE skills.
and you add a taunt to one of the other damage skills ??

This is a DESTRUCTION STAFF and it shouldnt even be a tank weapon. Add a protection staff skill line instead.

With these changes you are effectivly destroying one of my main characters as you are nerfing and changing 2 of the most vital main skills on it. And ruining its whole build purpose.
This gives me zero reason to play a frostmage anymore.

A shield applyed when you cast an aoe damage skill of ICE which is supposed to disrupt and slow enemies... ??

i swear its impossible to build any pure themed character in this game that is actually functional for what its intended for.

want to build a pure frost damage build mage ? nah, we no give you damage like the others, here, try tank instead that no one plays.

want to build a pure fire mage ? Nope. Best we can do is 2cm range on a DK if you want that. Or you can go templar wich barely fits the theme and skills that are almost useless with wierd animations.


Salty.

tsaescishoeshiner

Thanks for your attention to Frost Staves for damage dealers. I don't feel the proposed changes succeed in improving Frost Staff DPS for the reasons others have given, but wanted to add to this point:

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

In terms of reducing some pain points that Frost Staff users and their groups, we’ll be removing the Auto-Taunt from Tri-focus. The taunt from Frost Staff will instead reside in Frost Clench, and will taunt the enemy for 15 seconds.

There already is a ranged magicka taunt that all classes can access—Inner Fire. Why have two?

Furthermore, this wouldn't make visual sense with Frost Clench's animation, and be inconvenient due to its short range.

Beardimus

Brilliant news on a group queue and keeping solo queue, best of both worlds @ZOS_BrianWheeler how about registered teams for a leaderboard i.e. so you have to have same players same formation to score points. Make it competitive.

MyKillv2.0

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

... On top of a substantial amount of new item sets coming with this patch...

"substantial" amount of new item sets with a Q4 patch? This caught my eye.

scorpius2k1

Well, at this rate they are probably going to end up freeing a lot of players hard drive space. It feels like internally this game (company) is about to implode on itself. Externally, it feels like there is absolutely no direction and synergy in any direction. I feel like ESO is about to take on a renaming before too long: SOS

Visual of what ESO's "teams" and changes look like to it's playerbase:
https://youtu.be/1CxRMRL8RxY

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Hi there community,

I think we all need more clarification before this comes out (Please stream your detailed intentions to your community)

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Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

---

What does this mean essentially? Does it force players who have a 'better' knowledge of the game to limit their playing style by removing some 'unique' sets or skills which give them an advantage, an advantage which they spent time either levelling up and understanding and also sets which they spent time gathering.
Time is 'money' and time is more importantly each breath of air we breathe whilst keeping this game on the market and honestly the presented text on the first page is rather insulting to some and I can personally say I'm not optimistic.

I can assume and probably state that we are getting the feeling the game is being dumbed and watered down gradually overtime for a new target audience.. What should really have been done is more work from your behalf for newer players such as more tutorials, more guides and promotion for the PVP world instead of ignoring justified pleas for gameplay performance and PVP content which have now gone on for several years.

Already, at this moment in time, the playing field has been 'changed' as certain classes don't have the survivability that they once had before. We all started somewhere in PVP to get our ranks and our experience please don't squeeze out our 6 year+ gaming community, Zos. Think more about this and find better solutions that offer a fun gaming experience for all concerned.

Thank you,

Freya

kindred

Once again magicka users get screwed. ALL HAIL STAM TOONS!

JinMori

Wow, looks like they don't know wtf they are doing, what a surprise.

Instead of progression we have regression.

Pathetic, at this point i am convinced that zos is incapable of real improvement, i will not play this game seriously probably ever again. F you zos.

Onefrkncrzypope

kindred wrote: »

Once again magicka users get screwed. ALL HAIL STAM TOONS!

They are nerfing crit. You know the thing that stam relies on.. it like taking away mags free penetration.

Gotta learn who actually is getting nerfed here.

Xebov

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Did you know you can just... NOT put points into tri-focus to avoid the taunt issue with Ice staves?

You are aware that all weapons support "skill all the passives" which means that players will just skill this. You want to know how much players have this skilled that are running frost staffs in dungeons? You want to know how many of them still do heavy attacks because they need to generate magicka after i tell them not to do it?

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Xebov wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Did you know you can just... NOT put points into tri-focus to avoid the taunt issue with Ice staves?

You are aware that all weapons support "skill all the passives" which means that players will just skill this. You want to know how much players have this skilled that are running frost staffs in dungeons? You want to know how many of them still do heavy attacks because they need to generate magicka after i tell them not to do it?

Yep not enough information given by the game developper. I agree. Make this knowledge general and get more involved with your new players.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Random BG game mode? Gonna kill BGs for good fam.

On a different note; when will we ever be able to just enjoy the game without going through a headache every 3 months?

deleted221106-002999

So, more changes that no one actually asked for and no one actually wants with the exception of the re-introduction of group queues for battlegrounds which no one actually asked to be removed in the first place.

Outstanding.

MyKillv2.0

PvP people seem to be the type of people who win the lottery and react angry that now they have to pay more in taxes.

Iskaldt

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

kindred wrote: »

Once again magicka users get screwed. ALL HAIL STAM TOONS!

They are nerfing crit. You know the thing that stam relies on.. it like taking away mags free penetration.

Gotta learn who actually is getting nerfed here.

Agree with you on this.

For PvP so many people are already running Malacath band. And those who dont have it, or dont want it in their build like myself now might have to reconcider all my characters setups. Especially on my main wich is a NB and relies on crit and crit damage and has passives for that. And i might now have to go trough this mindnumbing *** profession just to get the ring.

Most of these changes/nerfs/reworks coming this patch is ***.

ClawOfTheTwoMoons

This is the type of crap that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I end up leaving the game, but I love this game so much, I love the elder scrolls world, and I love experiencing it like this [snip] We keep hearing "our standards" what exactly are they?! Cause things get radically changed every few months it seems like you don't even know what they are. [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Brovah

So we don't want the frost staff to taunt with a heavy attack? So.. take it off the tri focus.. don't remove the frost clench from pvp. There is a range taunt skill already. Are you joking?

Give frost staff an alround buff to frost dmg and just have it fixed right there.. how is this a major update?

Nerfing crit? Why? Did someone complain? Is there something wrong with it? Literally nobody asks for a nerf..

Please make sense when you try to gut parts of the game..

Firstmep

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

PvP people seem to be the type of people who win the lottery and react angry that now they have to pay more in taxes.

This isn't lottery, this is like inheriting.. a huge debt.

Firstmep

Brovah wrote: »

So we don't want the frost staff to taunt with a heavy attack? So.. take it off the tri focus.. don't remove the frost clench from pvp. There is a range taunt skill already. Are you joking?

Give frost staff an alround buff to frost dmg and just have it fixed right there.. how is this a major update?

Nerfing crit? Why? Did someone complain? Is there something wrong with it? Literally nobody asks for a nerf..

Please make sense when you try to gut parts of the game..

Yeah I use inner fire already, we absolutely don't need another ranged Magicka taunt.

Aztlan

Don't forget the khajiit, yes?

Let the crit chance changes make khajiit stronger.

SickleCider

Honest question, what about players that rely on criticals for self-healing? The way I'm seeing this, this isn't just another damage nerf, but another healing nerf as well.

ApexInterfectum

This was also combined with the overall goals to increase sustain, decrease damage done, and increase damage taken. Players with builds that aren’t 100% optimized will see an increase in power, while players utilizing all Majors/Minors at once in coordinated efforts will see a decrease in power.

^^^ This is a big Yikes ^^^

On console, we are already having a tough time getting players to stick around. I'm not talking about casual players, but the long time hardcore players who have been around for years. The ones who have spent countless hours perfecting rotations centered around uptime. Healers and tanks who have spent millions to perfect and refine their builds to achieve the perfect buff/debuff composition. Just so the developers can spit in their face and cater to casual players? So much for loyalty.

karekiz

Things I like ideas of:

Stat line combination

Mixing both weapon/spell stat lines. I am unsure why they just tossed crit, you guys might as well go all the way and mix Dmg and Pen values into one pool. Obviously keep med/light/heavy armor differences, stam/mag values, and certain proc conditions <MDPS requirement to proc>, but all the others would be open game.

Removing the HA taunt - Sure - whatever. It isn't going to make DPS use frost staves, but its something.

Things I don't like:

Tank Ice Staff changes

I am unsure why I as a tank would slot a Destro staff ranged taunt.

Lets take a look:

Destructive Clench
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 15 meters
Cost: 2700 Magicka

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Will Root a target <Assuming that its still there>

Inner Rage
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters
Cost: 2700 Magicka

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100% Synergy proc

This makes literally no sense. I trade range for a ranged taunt that roots the target with a frost staff? If I taunt a MDPS mob with a ranged taunt and I can't pull it for whatever reason, I would much rather it move towards me. What I suggest is this ZoS - keep the block for ice staff passive - Keep some sort of mitigation for the group - Drop the taunt, but buff the undaunted line.

Inner Fire - The same
Inner Rage - Taunt applies both Fracture/Breach onto the target
Inner Beast - Renamed to Inner Discipline - add Minor Mag steal + Major Breach to this. Essentially it would be ele drain with a taunt attached. While not the BEST thing if you have a healer - it would fit very nicely in Tank / 3 Mag DPS parties as it would essentially reduce a tank or DPS from slotting ele drain.

I agree with Code, the issue if you guys go WAY back and forth on this. Hey guys we want more class unique buffs that increase a gap between organized teams and more casual groups <Stagger anyone?>. All the way to: Hey those pesky minor buffs classes have are too daunting for casual players to build around, so lets nerf them! Pick one and setup shop.

Suggestions for changes to class Minor system

They can just edge the gap by making it so that classes have more flexible minor buffs.

For example:
Templar Illuminate Passive:
Casting a Dawn's Wrath ability grants Minor Sorcery to you and your group for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage by 10%.

Turned into:

Templar Will Passive:
Casting any Templar Ability grants Minor Sorcery and Minor Brutality to you and your group for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage and Weapon Damage by X amount. <Going to assume they want to remove % value>

This means that both new support players etc have an easier time proccing this passive to buff their group, be it by spamming BoL or using PoTL, it wouldn't matter. DPS or Supports would have relatively the same ease in proccing these systems. Random groups would have less punish for just not having X class accounted for in their raid <Since all but Wardens/Necro's> would share a Minor system.

Having set this way means higher end teams likely don't change too much, while lower end teams basically automatically end up with a buff.

scorpius2k1

There is also new buff coming called "Brittle" which will also increase Crit Chance on Frost Staffs (if I heard correctly). This was not highlighted in these notes. It was just announced by @ZOS_RobGarrett on Bethesda's ESO Live stream today. Very interesting.

Recapitated

So now I don't get soft CC out of Wall, requiring me to make room for another snare/immobilize in fights where CC is needed.

The upside? The ice staff taunt costs resources instead of restoring them and, correct me if I'm wrong, it's got a 15 meter range -- almost half of the ranged taunt that doesn't lock you to a weapon choice -- and no synergy.

Unless you want ice staves to go the way of the dodo you're going to need to add an effect, preferably one that helps tanks' magicka sustain or helps the group survive. Or make the damage shield really significant.

silvix1896

When do you think the Update will come?