Just think how this all could have been avoided if these same players were on board long ago when stamina users were BEGGING to have Vigor moved elsewhere.
Crickets because SO many magic users couldn't care less. Now the sky is falling.
Players like me who already had to take 14 stam characters to lvl 5 for vigor are unaffected but others need to suck it up and get to it. Can't believe Zos is just now 6 years later figuring out how important Vigor is to most stam builds, but whatever.
By all indications this isn't getting reverted and time spent beating a dead horse here in the forums is time lost ingame earning rapids.
Just think how this all could have been avoided if these same players were on board long ago when stamina users were BEGGING to have Vigor moved elsewhere.
Crickets because SO many magic users couldn't care less. Now the sky is falling.
Players like me who already had to take 14 stam characters to lvl 5 for vigor are unaffected but others need to suck it up and get to it. Can't believe Zos is just now 6 years later figuring out how important Vigor is to most stam builds, but whatever.
By all indications this isn't getting reverted and time spent beating a dead horse here in the forums is time lost ingame earning rapids.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and feedback about this change. We’ve been reading your feedback since this change went onto the PTS, and we understand the concerns you’ve presented here. Ultimately, this swap happened so Stamina builds have access to a heal earlier in the leveling experience. While we recognize being able to have Rapids as the first skill to use on other characters is convenient, Vigor is considered a must-have for Stamina build survivability, so giving access to the heal earlier is a major quality of life improvement for those players. We are happy with how this change is performing and have no current plans to revert it.
SilverBride wrote: »
SilverBride wrote: »
There's a reasonable compromise where they could make vigor available first and the rapids earlier than 5.
Elvenheart wrote: »Basically,
Six years ago: (players) “Stamina players need access to a heal!”
Now: (ZOS) “We recognize that stamina players need a heal so we switched Vigor & Rapids.”
Now: (players) “Why did you have to do it that way? We’re glad that stamina players were given a heal but why did you have to make Rapids harder to get. It makes it harder for everyone who would use rapids!”
Six years from now: (ZOS) “After much consideration, we decided that lowering the requirement for Rapids from Assault Level 5 to Assault Level 3 would be the best way to address new player speed issues.”
EvilAutoTech wrote: »Started a new character today. Got to level 10 and went to Cyrodiil. Breton Templar and red had the whole map. Guess how much I earned past the intro quest?
Best of luck with your ongoing fight!
I wish you all the best, but I wouldn't say without justification, just justification you don't agree with, which is perfectly understandable.
The argument was years ago when stam users were begging for Vigor to be moved to the Undaunted skill line.
I learned long ago that beating my head against the wall expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity. I can not control what Zos does, but I am in control of my own actions.
Best of luck with your ongoing fight!
It's not about what you're happy with, it's about what your customers are happy with. Clearly we're not.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »
There's a reasonable compromise where they could make vigor available first and the rapids earlier than 5.
Discussing that would be a lot more productive than only focusing on how unhappy some are. I think a lot of players would find that reasonable.
Elvenheart wrote: »I’m just guessing, but it seems that simply lowering the levels each skill was attainable would have been the easiest way to go. Like, one at 1 or 2 and another at 3?
SilverBride wrote: »
There's the flaw, right there. There's not one change, there are two changes: one moving Vigor, the other moving Rapid Maneuver. These were done at the same time, but that doesn't mean this is one or the other. The question that needs to be answered is: What is the benefit to the game of Rapid Maneuver - a means of getting around the PVP map faster - taking longer, coupled with the fact that earning it requires going around the map slower? How is the game benefited? Because if it's not, then why CAN'T they both be lower down the list? Where's the law that says something MUST be at level 5?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We are happy with how this change is performing and have no current plans to revert it.
SilverBride wrote: »
There were three possible solutions.
1. Not make Vigor easier = Not all customers happy
2. Make Vigor easier, but penalise Rapids = Not all cutomers are happy
3. Make Vigor easier in a way that doesn’t penalise anyone = All customers happy
I’m glad to see that after 36 pages (plus the many deleted ones), you are finally agreeing that either ZOS didn’t take into consideration the needs of all their players when making the decision to make this change, or made the change for reasons that had nothing to do with player’s needs.
I’m glad to see that after 36 pages (plus the many deleted ones), you are finally agreeing that either ZOS didn’t take into consideration the needs of all their players when making the decision to make this change, or made the change for reasons that had nothing to do with player’s needs.
SilverBride wrote: »I’m glad to see that after 36 pages (plus the many deleted ones), you are finally agreeing that either ZOS didn’t take into consideration the needs of all their players when making the decision to make this change, or made the change for reasons that had nothing to do with player’s needs.
I'm not agreeing with any such thing, and I don't think ZoS did anything wrong.
But that doesn't mean I am not open to a reasonable compromise that makes more players happy.
It's not me you need to convince, though. And presenting your compromise with supporting facts instead of blame will be a lot better received.
Well if ZoS hadn't ignored all the suggestions in the PTS forum we would not even be having this argument...
What they can’t understand is why Rapids was made harder to get, when Rapids is just as essential to many players (arguably more than those who need early Vigor) as it was on the day the game launched. Nothing has changed about the game to make it any less needed, nor was it over performing so needed to be moved for the sake of balance.
I'm confused. You said that "If it's about what the customers are happy with", which means you believe this decision could have been made for reasons that weren't to do with player's happiness.
You then said "then you need to consider all the customers." Which, given that this change penalises some players when there were options that penalised none, must mean that ZOS didn't take into account all their players. (You even bolded the "all" bit to show how essential it is.)
It's not about what you're happy with, it's about what your customers are happy with.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »It's not about what you're happy with, it's about what your customers are happy with. Clearly we're not.
It's not about what they're happy with, but it's not about what we're happy with either. It's about what we DO : logging in, hours played, subscriptions and crown purchases. And regarding those factors, they're much better informed than any of us. They know what they're doing.