Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

Elsonso

esotoon wrote: »

ZOS have now specifically said that they are monitoring the forums for feedback on this issue. If they are monitoring the forum to get feedback, telling people who have issues with this situation to let it go and just adapt seems counterproductive to both the interests of the players and to what ZOS themselves are wanting.

Nothing new is being said though. If ZOS is going to pick up anything from this, they already have. Once they get what they need, they will move on. I doubt they are tallying up opinions like some sort of vote. Too unreliable.

SilverBride

esotoon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I doubt very much this is going to change. So why not let it go and adapt to it? Instead of threads about not liking the change, start one with tips on adapting. Form groups to go into PvP and work on this together. Then if this doesn't get changed you are ahead of the game. And if it does you are still ahead of the game.

On top of that, when people have told you that if you don't have an issue with the rapids change then why are you posting in this thread, you have argued that people are free to post their opinion on any topic on the forums, yet here you are telling people not to post. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

You are reading too much into my statement. I never said you shouldn't express your opinion. But there is nothing wrong with accepting that the change you want probably won't happen, and looking for ways to make the best of it.

Maybe I should have said "In addition to threads about not liking the change, start one with tips on adapting."

AlnilamE

SilverBride wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

I have rapids on all my characters, but I see how this change has affected my guildies...

This just made me realize something. Not one person in my guild has brought this up, let alone indicated that it's negatively affecting them. And I've not heard a single person in zone chat, in any zone, complain about it. I don't think this is an actual in game issue as much as it is a forum issue.

I'm fixing your quote in my reply. You left an open tag in there.

I've heard from several guild members, some of which are despondent at the thought of how many characters they'll have to take through Cyrodiil.

We have started a PvP event for guildies where we cycle through alliances so everybody can get their alts up. Let me mention that I dislike PvPing on non-EP characters.

Zone chat was pretty busy with talk of the change the day it came out, which was when most people found out. Particularly in zones like Alik'r, Auridon and zones where people farm things that are far away from wayshrines. But once you find out, there really is not much use talking about it in game. It's the forums where you have to complain about it.

esotoon

Elsonso wrote: »

Nothing new is being said though. If ZOS is going to pick up anything from this, they already have. Once they get what they need, they will move on. I doubt they are tallying up opinions like some sort of vote. Too unreliable.

Forgive me, I don't remember there ever being a stated statute of limitations on how long something can be discussed. This change happened 7 days ago, so I am guessing it is set at what 6 days, 5 days, 4?

Just for the record there are still new people to this thread posting to this day, do they not get a say?

Thechuckage

esotoon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I doubt very much this is going to change. So why not let it go and adapt to it? Instead of threads about not liking the change, start one with tips on adapting. Form groups to go into PvP and work on this together. Then if this doesn't get changed you are ahead of the game. And if it does you are still ahead of the game.

ZOS have now specifically said that they are monitoring the forums for feedback on this issue. If they are monitoring the forum to get feedback, telling people who have issues with this situation to let it go and just adapt seems counterproductive to both the interests of the players and to what ZOS themselves are wanting.

On top of that, when people have told you that if you don't have an issue with the rapids change then why are you posting in this thread, you have argued that people are free to post their opinion on any topic on the forums, yet here you are telling people not to post. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

ZoS saying they are monitoring forums is just a bid to get people to calm down. You can look at their past actions and get a feel for how this is going to be affected long term. If I turn out to be wrong, I will admit it. But right now, rapids isn't going to be changed back.

Jaraal

esotoon wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Nothing new is being said though. If ZOS is going to pick up anything from this, they already have. Once they get what they need, they will move on. I doubt they are tallying up opinions like some sort of vote. Too unreliable.

Forgive me, I don't remember there ever being a stated statute of limitations on how long something can be discussed. This change happened 7 days ago, so I am guessing it is set at what 6 days, 5 days, 4?

Just for the record there are still new people to this thread posting to this day, do they not get a say?

.

SilverBride

AlnilamE wrote: »

Zone chat was pretty busy with talk of the change the day it came out, which was when most people found out. Particularly in zones like Alik'r, Auridon and zones where people farm things that are far away from wayshrines. But once you find out, there really is not much use talking about it in game. It's the forums where you have to complain about it.

I was playing that day and I didn't hear any complaints. But saying the people complaining were the ones farming just reinforces why this skill that was "meant to be a purely PvP skill" was probably changed in the first place. To curb its misuse.

esotoon

Thechuckage wrote: »

ZoS saying they are monitoring forums is just a bid to get people to calm down. You can look at their past actions and get a feel for how this is going to be affected long term. If I turn out to be wrong, I will admit it. But right now, rapids isn't going to be changed back.

I doubt it will be either. Unfortunately the player base is far to apathetic and far to willing to place zero value on their time, and just roll over and take whatever is thrown at them. With some going as far as actively trying to shut down any kind of debate on ZOS's behalf, with such great arguments as "Well I'm not affected by it so it's not an issue, so you all should shut up". Zos know full well that all they have to do is wait it out and the players will do it all for them.

Linaleah

finehair wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

So I just checked a thing. I went to some keeps that were recently defended and just repaired the walls. It got me 30k AP in about 30 min. I didn't fight anyone and didn't have to ride anywhere, just chilled in empty keeps and pressed one button.

video or it didn't happen.

because.

1. there were apparently enough recently defended keeps for you to travel to which is.. huh, interesting coincidence.
2. none of those keeps were repaired by people who defended them apparently - another interesting coincidence.
3. you apparently had a ton of repair kits on hand (or bough them and how much did THAT cost, I want the exact number of kits you used)

You get the defence tick on defended keeps if you repair ANY wall or door that is not %100 hp, and you need to repair it ONCE. Not to full hp, just spend 1 repair kit and boom, now you will get the same def tick as the guy who killed half of the enemy zerg by himself. You won't get the ap from kills obviously. But def ticks are the juiciest ap you get most of the time anyway.

I repeatedly told in this and other threads about rapid cries; join one of the crowded campaigns, in prime time there are keeps under attack almost %100 of the time. Buy yourself about 20 repair kits of each, and few oils if you want to help defending, but not necessary.

Then just read the zonechat, one of your homekeeps called us? Instantly port there and find a wall to repair, a back wall or postern house doesn't need to be the wall or door that is under siege. Nothing to repair? Heal someone who jumped from the wall. No one to heal? Do a light attack from wall to any enemy player. No ranged abilities? Buy a ballista and shoot something. Not enough ap to buy ballista? Steal one and shoot something once and leave it.


Doing one of these puts you on the defend tick list. If it's a small attack you'll get about 4-5k ap. If it's a decent attack you get 8-10k. If it's a proper siege you get 12-15. If it's one of those situations you barely defended you get over 20k. By doing nothing but being present there and doing one of those things.

Easier version; go one of the keeps that is likely to be under attack. Have 4 flaming oils ready. When enemy arrives and starts ramming, place 4 oils and "shoot" them all at once. You will get 3-4 kills in ram. Even if the keep is lost, you will get a defend tick from killing people. And because you are vastly outnumbered and killed multiple people, that def tick is stupidly big. Like at least 15k.

I got about 30k ap multiple times in one keep just from being the only person in the keep and oiling. Without any ap buff.

Sure but it is easier to just ignore this wall of text and cry about your "earned" rapids being taking away.

yes yes, but in 30 minutes? not. even. in a busiest. campaign. just getting to a keep that's being attacked (which once its marked - you cannot just travel to - you have to hoof it) will take half of those 30 minutes without rapids/leveled horse and if you are lucky, you will have something nearby to travel from and no broken bridges to ride around.

there are plenty of methods to get AP. NONE of them take anywhere NEAR as little as 30 minutes.

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I doubt very much this is going to change. So why not let it go and adapt to it? Instead of threads about not liking the change, start one with tips on adapting. Form groups to go into PvP and work on this together. Then if this doesn't get changed you are ahead of the game. And if it does you are still ahead of the game.

On top of that, when people have told you that if you don't have an issue with the rapids change then why are you posting in this thread, you have argued that people are free to post their opinion on any topic on the forums, yet here you are telling people not to post. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

You are reading too much into my statement. I never said you shouldn't express your opinion. But there is nothing wrong with accepting that the change you want probably won't happen, and looking for ways to make the best of it.

Maybe I should have said "In addition to threads about not liking the change, start one with tips on adapting."

and my way to "make the best of it" is to play my slower characters less ( or not at all), make less gold as a result, and trade for fewer crowns. /shrug.

spending a workweeks worth of time or more to regain a speed boost is NOT my idea of making the best of it. but you do you.

Elsonso

esotoon wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Nothing new is being said though. If ZOS is going to pick up anything from this, they already have. Once they get what they need, they will move on. I doubt they are tallying up opinions like some sort of vote. Too unreliable.

Forgive me, I don't remember there ever being a stated statute of limitations on how long something can be discussed. This change happened 7 days ago, so I am guessing it is set at what 6 days, 5 days, 4?

Just for the record there are still new people to this thread posting to this day, do they not get a say?

Forgive me, I did realize that I was telling you to stop talking about it. All I said was that nothing new has been said and that ZOS has probably pulled everything they are going to pull from the conversation.

SilverBride

Linaleah wrote: »

and my way to "make the best of it" is to play my slower characters less ( or not at all), make less gold as a result, and trade for fewer crowns. /shrug.

spending a workweeks worth of time or more to regain a speed boost is NOT my idea of making the best of it. but you do you.

I've never used rapids. I just accept that I won't move fast until I max my mount's speed. I don't expect to roll a new character and immediately be able to run around at full speed.

Do you really think making "less gold as a result" by not using a skill "that was meant to be purely used in PvP" is a valid reason to make this readily assessable to new characters? This is probably the reason it was changed in the first place!

pkostadinov

I don't see a point in wondering if ZOS will see/use my feedback - the only way they surely won't is if I don't give it, so it is a simple decision.
I also don't get the point of not complaining about stuff - I play the game, I pay subscription (let see for how long) - there is a patch that makes my game worse - I say that I don't like it and why. Last time I checked, that is one of the main reasons forums exist.
ZOS has the right to ignore feedback and I have the right to find something better to spend my time and money on, simple as that.

That said, the change is clearly a bad one - in the part of moving Rapids up. Any change that takes something from players for no good reason is bad. And the Vigor thing is no good reason, it can be achieved without requiring Rank 5 for Rapids - one way is swapping with Siege Shield as discussed many times before.

It hurts most the new characters in Cyrodiil - having several miserable hours in the beginning isn't the best way to make one stick around. There is a good reason why Rapids was the first skill from the begining and that was said by devs - it makes moving in Cyrodiil bearable. The campaigns are called "horse-riding simulator" for a reason.

In short this is a soft ban on any new character under 2 months from playing the campaigns, unless the player is a masochist.

Here I'm ignoring the quite viable suspicion, that the change is purely for monetization reasons - if it is like this, the chances something will change are small, so I will spend my time/arguments in the other case.

TLDR: Any change with zero benefit and some drawbacks is a bad change and forums are the right place to say this.

esotoon

Elsonso wrote: »

Forgive me, I did realize that I was telling you to stop talking about it. All I said was that nothing new has been said and that ZOS has probably pulled everything they are going to pull from the conversation.

My apologies then. The quote of mine you replied to was in response to people with a problem with this issue being told to "let it go" and move on, so I read your post as simply trying to reinforce that position. My bad, thanks for clarifying.

pkostadinov

Elsonso wrote: »

Forgive me, I did realize that I was telling you to stop talking about it. All I said was that nothing new has been said and that ZOS has probably pulled everything they are going to pull from the conversation.

There is one more point - how many people are sharing their disappointment. This matters to at the bottom line ... sometimes.

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

and my way to "make the best of it" is to play my slower characters less ( or not at all), make less gold as a result, and trade for fewer crowns. /shrug.

spending a workweeks worth of time or more to regain a speed boost is NOT my idea of making the best of it. but you do you.

I've never used rapids. I just accept that I won't move fast until I max my mount's speed. I don't expect to roll a new character and immediately be able to run around at full speed.

Do you really think making "less gold as a result" by not using a skill "that was meant to be purely used in PvP" is a valid reason to make this readily assessable to new characters? This is probably the reason it was changed in the first place!

1. like I said, you do you, but that doesn't mean it wasn't useful to most of us who, you know - used it
2. we expected not to move like snails thanks to the skill available in game..
3. they decided that it was pvp only skill on a whim almost, since they were and still ARE aware at how many skills from those skill lines are used... in PVE. after all, making stamina heal easily available for pve players is their official reason for the switch, so your reasoning falls very VERY flat here.
4. and yes I do think it is very much a valid reason. its been a valid reason for years now.


as for why it was changed. you are mixing these things up. their reason was to "MOVE UP VIGOR CLOSER TO BEING QUICKLY ACQUIRABLE BY PVE PLAYERS" rapids were just a victim of circumstance (if you are feeling charitable) or a lovely bonus to sell more crown store boosts (if you are not)

but, according to ZoS - this change is about VIGOR. so once again, your reasoning falls flat.

SilverBride

pkostadinov wrote: »

I don't see a point in wondering if ZOS will see/use my feedback - the only way they surely won't is if I don't give it, so it is a simple decision.
I also don't get the point of not complaining about stuff - I play the game, I pay subscription (let see for how long) - there is a patch that makes my game worse - I say that I don't like it and why.

That's all perfectly reasonable. But threatening to quit if you don't get your way is nothing more than having a virtual tantrum.

As far as rapids is concerned:

• The skill is still there. It has not been removed and you can still earn it.
  
• They stated that the skill was always intended to be a purely PvP skill.
  
• They also asked why shouldn't you have to do PvP to get a PvP skill. PvP players are forced to do some PvE, so PvE players who want this skill will have to do PvP to get it.

It seems we already have their answer.

Jaraal

pkostadinov wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Forgive me, I did realize that I was telling you to stop talking about it. All I said was that nothing new has been said and that ZOS has probably pulled everything they are going to pull from the conversation.

There is one more point - how many people are sharing their disappointment. This matters to at the bottom line ... sometimes.

I've seen plenty of people complaining about the changes in guild chat. Been told more than once when asking players where they've been that they didn't feel like playing much since everything is slowed down for them.

It will be interesting to see what Steamcharts shows 30 days after this change.

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

pkostadinov wrote: »

I don't see a point in wondering if ZOS will see/use my feedback - the only way they surely won't is if I don't give it, so it is a simple decision.
I also don't get the point of not complaining about stuff - I play the game, I pay subscription (let see for how long) - there is a patch that makes my game worse - I say that I don't like it and why.

That's all perfectly reasonable. But threatening to quit if you don't get your way is nothing more than having a virtual tantrum.

As far as rapids is concerned:

• The skill is still there. It has not been removed and you can still earn it.
  
• They stated that the skill was always intended to be a purely PvP skill.
  
• They also asked why shouldn't you have to do PvP to get a PvP skill. PvP players are forced to do some PvE, so PvE players who want this skill will have to do PvP to get it.

It seems we already have their answer.

they are making an excuse NOW about this skill being pvp only - it was NOT always intended to be pvp only. they knew it was used in pve. for years. just like multiple other "pvp" skills from those skill lines. they literally moved vigor to make it easier for PVE players to get, so I'm honestly amused that you are so stubbornly sticking to "ITS A PVP SKILL" excuse. I mean.. its not the first time they are changing it either, except last time they still kept it where it was, they just nerfed its ability to clear slowing debuffs/ make you immune to them.

so is vigor pvp only skill? how do we decide what is or is not pvp only skill? since its pretty obvious even with ZoS's admission that just being place in pvp skill line does NOT make something a pvp only skill.

Thechuckage

esotoon wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

ZoS saying they are monitoring forums is just a bid to get people to calm down. You can look at their past actions and get a feel for how this is going to be affected long term. If I turn out to be wrong, I will admit it. But right now, rapids isn't going to be changed back.

I doubt it will be either. Unfortunately the player base is far to apathetic and far to willing to place zero value on their time, and just roll over and take whatever is thrown at them. With some going as far as actively trying to shut down any kind of debate on ZOS's behalf, with such great arguments as "Well I'm not affected by it so it's not an issue, so you all should shut up". Zos know full well that all they have to do is wait it out and the players will do it all for them.

I can point at the "RIP EU" thread (118 pages and growing) as an example of complaining alone to be an ineffective strategy.

Fully agree a large part (if not a clear majority) of the playerbase will simply roll with whatever comes out. But for some the change will actually be a positive. Each side can have a reason to advocate for their benefit.

End of the day, sometimes you just have to close your wallet. Or learn the new dance steps.

Elsonso

Thechuckage wrote: »

I can point at the "RIP EU" thread (118 pages and growing) as an example of complaining alone to be an ineffective strategy.

That is true.

ZOS has said that they want to hear about the problems and are not interested in solutions. Players are nothing if not enthusiastic about providing solutions.

For the EU server, if you listen to ZOS, they are well aware of the problem. The solutions presented in various threads don't interest them. Maybe the solutions are right, maybe they are not. ZOS wants to figure that out.

The same applies here, and is why I said that nothing new is being talked about. At this point, ZOS can pretty much lay out why people do, and do not, like this change. They might read the solutions, but my guess is that they will find their own. It might actually be something that was suggested, or it might be something completely different. That is if they decide to make any changes at all.

What is annoying about all of this is that ZOS basically manufactures the problem. We find out later that they actually expect the problem and are looking at solutions. Seems to me the easier path would be to not make the #^%^#&$ problem in the first place.

SilverBride

Linaleah wrote: »

they are making an excuse NOW about this skill being pvp only - it was NOT always intended to be pvp only.

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

"I gave my personal opinion on Tuesday in the stream: I understand the change as well as the displeasure about it.
Rapid maneuvers was intended as a pure PvP skill to compensate for the dimensions and long walking distances in Cyrodiil."

Yes, it was.

AlnilamE

SilverBride wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Zone chat was pretty busy with talk of the change the day it came out, which was when most people found out. Particularly in zones like Alik'r, Auridon and zones where people farm things that are far away from wayshrines. But once you find out, there really is not much use talking about it in game. It's the forums where you have to complain about it.

I was playing that day and I didn't hear any complaints. But saying the people complaining were the ones farming just reinforces why this skill that was "meant to be a purely PvP skill" was probably changed in the first place. To curb its misuse.

I meant things like Harrowstorms and world bosses.

But your argument makes no sense, because the same thing can be applied to Vigor. If using a skill from the PvP lines is misusing them, then why make Vigor easier? Why make any of the PvP skills usable outside or Cyrodiil?

ZOS wants us to use them, or they wouldn't allow us to, just like they don't allow siege in trials, IC or even Cyrodiil delves.

Nicole94

SilverBride wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

and my way to "make the best of it" is to play my slower characters less ( or not at all), make less gold as a result, and trade for fewer crowns. /shrug.

spending a workweeks worth of time or more to regain a speed boost is NOT my idea of making the best of it. but you do you.

I've never used rapids. I just accept that I won't move fast until I max my mount's speed. I don't expect to roll a new character and immediately be able to run around at full speed.

Do you really think making "less gold as a result" by not using a skill "that was meant to be purely used in PvP" is a valid reason to make this readily assessable to new characters? This is probably the reason it was changed in the first place!

Yes, and when you get your characters mount to "Max mount speed" I will fly by you like you are stopped, with my characters max mount speed +30%

Now that the Devs have released a statement saying they did this "to give a stamina heal faster to pve players" I see the argument has changed to "adapt to the change" .
As it has been mentioned NUMEROUS times, those of us that actually play in both PVP and PVE worlds, have social contacts, and guildmates. My level 50 crafter that was Rank 3 took 2 hours with my guild to get her rapids back. They were wonderful. I especially LOVED when they purposefully used me as bait with my slow mount. When the gankers, who lack any skill except to prey on newbies came for me, they were killed and tea bagged for their efforts

IF this was supposed to be a PVP ONLY skill it SHOULD have been built into Battle Spirit not added in a skill tree. New people will suffer from the move.

We have had Rapids at level 10 since the first or second week in Beta. Just because I don't have a massive wall of stars behind my name doesn't mean I haven't been around. I still remember when we could train our mounts differently ON THE SAME CHARACTER. I had one trained with pure speed, another mount with carry capacity. ANYONE that has played this game HAS ADAPTED TO CHANGE. Many changes were not liked, and were complained about for MONTHS until it was changed again, others were not changed but an explanation given. We are PAYING customers, this isn't some F2P game. No they do NOT, nor do we expect them to "build around our desires", but we, at least, I feel that we deserve the same respect and loyalty FROM them as we GIVE them. It is not too much to ask.

I don't understand how so many have taken it upon themselves to give all of us that do not like this "A teachable moment" I can't WAIT for the 3 sec global on all AOE damage and healing... Adapt learn to play with it.

Thechuckage

Elsonso wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

I can point at the "RIP EU" thread (118 pages and growing) as an example of complaining alone to be an ineffective strategy.

That is true.

ZOS has said that they want to hear about the problems and are not interested in solutions. Players are nothing if not enthusiastic about providing solutions.

For the EU server, if you listen to ZOS, they are well aware of the problem. The solutions presented in various threads don't interest them. Maybe the solutions are right, maybe they are not. ZOS wants to figure that out.

The same applies here, and is why I said that nothing new is being talked about. At this point, ZOS can pretty much lay out why people do, and do not, like this change. They might read the solutions, but my guess is that they will find their own. It might actually be something that was suggested, or it might be something completely different. That is if they decide to make any changes at all.

What is annoying about all of this is that ZOS basically manufactures the problem. We find out later that they actually expect the problem and are looking at solutions. Seems to me the easier path would be to not make the #^%^#&$ problem in the first place.

Seems you have more faith in whomevers calling the shots than I do. Looking at possible consequences *should* be a step before implementation....then again there is quite a large difference between "should be" and "is".

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

they are making an excuse NOW about this skill being pvp only - it was NOT always intended to be pvp only.

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

"I gave my personal opinion on Tuesday in the stream: I understand the change as well as the displeasure about it.
Rapid maneuvers was intended as a pure PvP skill to compensate for the dimensions and long walking distances in Cyrodiil."

Yes, it was.

he said it LAST TUESDAY. which is exactly my point. I can do something for years, then do a 180 on it and then claim that "it was always meant to be that thing that I'm doing now" but that doesn't change the fact that I did a 180 on something recently and for years it was NOT always meant to be that thing.

SilverBride

Nicole94 wrote: »

Yes, and when you get your characters mount to "Max mount speed" I will fly by you like you are stopped, with my characters max mount speed +30%

I couldn't care less if "I will fly by you like you are stopped." I don't rush from Point A to Point B as fast as I can all day long. I actually stop and play the game.

Nicole94 wrote: »

IF this was supposed to be a PVP ONLY skill it SHOULD have been built into Battle Spirit not added in a skill tree.

I couldn't agree with you more. If their intention was for Rapids to be a purely PvP skill in the first place, it should never been set up in a way that low level players could easily get it without PvPing. But they didn't, and now we have this big controversy. That being said, what they should or should not have done in the beginning doesn't mean they aren't doing the right thing now.

Nicole94 wrote: »

ANYONE that has played this game HAS ADAPTED TO CHANGE.

This is the nature of online gaming. There are changes. Sometimes we like them. Sometimes we don't. But we either have to adapt and keep playing, for the things we do still enjoy, or just call it a day and quit.

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

Nicole94 wrote: »

Yes, and when you get your characters mount to "Max mount speed" I will fly by you like you are stopped, with my characters max mount speed +30%

I couldn't care less if "I will fly by you like you are stopped." I don't rush from Point A to Point B as fast as I can all day long. I actually stop and play the game.

Nicole94 wrote: »

IF this was supposed to be a PVP ONLY skill it SHOULD have been built into Battle Spirit not added in a skill tree.

I couldn't agree with you more. If their intention was for Rapids to be a purely PvP skill in the first place, it should never been set up in a way that low level players could easily get it without PvPing. But they didn't, and now we have this big controversy. That being said, what they should or should not have done in the beginning doesn't mean they aren't doing the right thing now.

Nicole94 wrote: »

ANYONE that has played this game HAS ADAPTED TO CHANGE.

This is the nature of online gaming. There are changes. Sometimes we like them. Sometimes we don't. But we either have to adapt and keep playing, for the things we do still enjoy, or just call it a day and quit.

you are still missing a point of the whole "pvp only skill" is purge a pvp only skill? is warhorn? are caltrops? is VIGOR? (which is why rapids was moved in a first place?)

pvp only skill doesn't mean it comes from pvp line, it means its ONLY USEFUL IN PVP.

and to give you an example of an actual pvp only skill, and more specifically Cyrodill only skill

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Siege+Shield

which ironically doesn't require any actual pvp to get as its the very first skill in support skill

but do go on with your shakey arguments that are so very easily refuted.

SilverBride

Linaleah wrote: »

you are still missing a point of the whole "pvp only skill" is purge a pvp only skill? is warhorn? are caltrops? is VIGOR? (which is why rapids was moved in a first place?)

pvp only skill doesn't mean it comes from pvp line, it means its ONLY USEFUL IN PVP.

I can't answer for those other skills because rapids is the one they claimed to always have been intended to be a pure PvP skill. You will have to ask them that.

Linaleah

SilverBride wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

you are still missing a point of the whole "pvp only skill" is purge a pvp only skill? is warhorn? are caltrops? is VIGOR? (which is why rapids was moved in a first place?)

pvp only skill doesn't mean it comes from pvp line, it means its ONLY USEFUL IN PVP.

I can't answer for those other skills because rapids is the one they claimed to always have been intended to be a pure PvP skill. You will have to ask them that.

show me when they claimed it years ago rather then just week ago AS A PERSONAL OPINION, and then we can talk.

not to mention. if it was meant for Cyrodil only.. it would only FIRE while in Cyrodil, it would not be usable, as in physically impossible to use anywhere else.