Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

OldManJim

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Hey, I don't know if anyone here has noticed, but we finally have a comment from a higher up in regards to the issue.

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

Ich werde Matt & Rich am Samstag nach dieser Änderung befragen. Einen offzielleren Kommentar als die mögliche Antwort dort gibt es nicht.


Meine persönliche Meinung hatte ich Dienstag im Stream genannt: Ich verstehe die Änderung ebenso wie den Unmut darüber.
Rapid maneuvers war als reiner PvP-Skill als Ausgleich für die Dimensionen und weiten Laufwege in Cyrodiil gedacht.
Wir nötigen PvP-Spieler ins PvE ohne dass es da große Beschwerden gibt. Warum also nicht auch ins PvP, wenn man einen PvP-Skill haben möchte? Zudem kommt man mit dem PvP-Tutorial alleine schnell auf Stufe 3 und kann mit Eroberungsquests oder BGs den Rest schnell nachholen. Gerade U50-Charaktere sollten ab 30 mal in die passende Kampagne; dort geht es nach meinen Erfahrungen recht entspannt zu.
Ich komme zudem aus einer MMO-Generation, als man noch nicht alles nachgeworfen bekam und ein Wipe an einem Abend durchaus den kompletten Fortschritt des Abends löschen konnte.

Aber natürlich ist es immer unglücklich, Spielern etwas zu nehmen, an das sie sich gewöhnt haben, und wir verfolgen das Feedback hier genau.

Translation according to Google:

I'll ask Matt & Rich about this change on Saturday. There is no more official comment than the possible answer there.


I gave my personal opinion on Tuesday in the stream: I understand the change as well as the displeasure about it.
Rapid maneuvers was intended as a pure PvP skill to compensate for the dimensions and long walking distances in Cyrodiil.
We force PvP players into PvE without any major complaints. So why not go into PvP if you want to have a PvP skill? In addition, you can quickly get to level 3 with the PvP tutorial alone and can quickly catch up with the rest with conquest quests or BGs. U50 characters in particular should participate in the appropriate campaign from 30 times; In my experience, things are quite relaxed there.
I also come from a MMO generation when you didn't get everything thrown back and a wipe in one evening could easily erase the entire progress of the evening.

But of course it's always unfortunate to take something away from players that they have gotten used to, and we are closely following the feedback here.

In the same thread there also is a mention of a stream with Matt and Rich with questions from Kai Schober, at 2 hours 31 minutes Kai asks about Rapid Maneuver.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/725149480?t=02h31m45s

Rich explains that they wanted to make Vigor more accessible to PvE players. The team also knew it would be controversial.

But they do see the feedback on the forums. I am hopeful that they come up with a better alternative (maybe switching Siege Shield with Rapids).

Thank you very much for posting that link Joe.

At least they acknowledge our issues and are looking into it.

esotoon

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

Hey, I don't know if anyone here has noticed, but we finally have a comment from a higher up in regards to the issue.

Thanks for this, however it raises even more questions.

"Rapid maneuvers was intended as a pure PvP skill to compensate for the dimensions and long walking distances in Cyrodiil."

If this was meant as a "pure PVP skill" to compensate for the size of Cyrodiil:

a) Why wasn't it added as part of the Battle Spirit, instead of as a skill, so it wouldn't be abused by people using it outside of Cyrodiil?

b) Has Cyrodiil suddenly changed size? If not, why are you disadvantaging PVP Players in order to make this change, are they less important to you than PVE players?

c) Why is this skill still usable outside of Cyrodiil?

d) Are the other Alliance-War skills also meant to be "Pure PVP Skills"? If not, why weren't "pure PVP skills" given their own Skill Line?

e) Given that PVE players have been able to obtain this Skill from Cyrodiil, for 6 years, by doing PVE only, and since the start of the game have been able to use the skill outside of Cyrodiil, and can still use the skill outside of Cyrodiil, isn't the fact that it may have been first devised to be a "pure PVP skill" totally irrelevant? If not, what has suddenly changed in the game to make this fact relevant now?

We force PvP players into PvE without any major complaints. So why not go into PvP if you want to have a PvP skill? In addition, you can quickly get to level 3 with the PvP tutorial alone and can quickly catch up with the rest with conquest quests or BGs. U50 characters in particular should participate in the appropriate campaign from 30 times; In my experience, things are quite relaxed there.

This same argument can be used for leaving Vigor where it was. Not to mention it ignores the fact that PVE'ers will still have to go to Cyrodiil to get Caltrops, Barrier, Warhorn.

I also come from a MMO generation when you didn't get everything thrown back and a wipe in one evening could easily erase the entire progress of the evening.

Would that be the same generation that didn't use Crown Crates and other psychologically manipulative sales tactics to milk their customers, because if you would like to go back to that time, I'm all for it. If not, this is irrelevant, times have changed and ESO is not that type of MMO.

But of course it's always unfortunate to take something away from players that they have gotten used to, and we are closely following the feedback here.

If you knew this, why didn't you make this change in a manner that wouldn't adversely affect anyone? As had been suggested multiple times during the PTS, make Vigor and Rapids the first skills in both Alliance-War Lines, or make Vigor unlock at rank 2, and Rapids at rank 3?

Why are you closely following feedback? The PTS testers told you this was a bad idea, they gave you multiple possible better solutions, and you went through with it anyway. If you ignore them, what difference will "Closely following feedback" make?

Rich explains that they wanted to make Vigor more accessible to PvE players. The team also knew it would be controversial.

You say it is to give PVE Stamina players a heal.

a) Why didn't you do what you said you would do 3 years ago, and rework the skill lines of classes to be more like the Necro and Wardens, with a DPS/Heal/Tank skill line and give players an early game Stamina heal as part of that change? Especially as being a HOT, Vigor is not a very effective heal at low levels, a time when Stamina classes are most in need of a Stamina heal currently?

b) You say you also did it because you don't necessary want PVE players to have to PVP in order to be successful. Does this mean that you will also be changing skills like Caltrops, Barrier and Warhorn that PVE players also use in order to be successful? If not, why is it ok for PVEers to have to PVP for some skills to be succesful, and not for others?

c) If PVPers are forced to PVE in order to be successful at PVP, and now you have prioritised Vigor over Rapids at the expense of PVP players solely to help PVE players "be successful at PVE without PVPing", what reason is there for PVP players to feel like you give a damn about them in this game?

SydneyGrey

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

People can yell back and forth all they want. This change was not about convenience for stamina, it was about getting the whales with multiple alts/accounts to pony up for riding lessons and skill lines. From one whale to another, don't give in. You can grind a ring of the hunt as fast as you can grind rapids for whatever that is worth (not that its a perfect replacement).

Also, anyone saying you can max assault/support in 30 minutes is a flat our liar.

This. All of this.

WeerW3ir

I mean... Are you f. kidding me with this all? All that complain. Seriously. Would take you minimal pvp to go join a team and capture the castles. In midyear mayhem you can get even more. My all char (13 character) have it. And mostly i did it under the event. Its not hurts to do it.

What would have you do if they take rapid and swap it with 3rd or 4th skill? Just Seriously...

JoeCapricorn

WeerW3ir wrote: »

I mean... Are you f. kidding me with this all? All that complain. Seriously. Would take you minimal pvp to go join a team and capture the castles. In midyear mayhem you can get even more. My all char (13 character) have it. And mostly i did it under the event. Its not hurts to do it.

What would have you do if they take rapid and swap it with 3rd or 4th skill? Just Seriously...

It's a skill that didn't require PVP for six and a half years.

Newsflash: Not everyone likes PVP. Getting rapids back is not minimal PVP either, it's about three to six hours of grinding. Multiply that over the sometimes numerous number of alts a few people have and it becomes rather overwhelming.

SilverBride

esotoon wrote: »

"Rapid maneuvers was intended as a pure PvP skill to compensate for the dimensions and long walking distances in Cyrodiil."

If this was meant as a "pure PVP skill" to compensate for the size of Cyrodiil...Has Cyrodiil suddenly changed size?

Cyrodiil is still big, but all your true PvPers are already going to have enough skill to have it, because they actually spend time PvPing. And new Pvpers will just have to earn it, like any new player of any kind. I don't know why people think are entitled to start off riding as fast as someone who took the time to work the trait up.

esotoon wrote: »

Why is this skill still usable outside of Cyrodiil?

I'd like to know that, too. I don't think any PvP skill should be usable outside Cyrodiil.

esotoon wrote: »

We force PvP players into PvE without any major complaints. So why not go into PvP if you want to have a PvP skill?

What's fair for one is fair for the other.

Spearpoint

Even though I don't see why it is tooo bad to grind a bit more AP (try to enjoy the variation from PvE at least, eh? Transmute stones, eey?) to get rapids, I really don't see why SOZ couldn't let rapids be the first Assault skill to get unlocked. After all, it's a much more universal skill for every character to use, regardless if they are stam or mag focused.

I feel for y'all pacifists!

JoeCapricorn

SilverBride wrote: »

Cyrodiil is still big, but all your true PvPers are already going to have enough skill to have it, because they actually spend time PvPing. And new Pvpers will just have to earn it, like any new player of any kind. I don't know why people think are entitled to start off riding as fast as someone who took the time to work the trait up.

"entitled"?

Because we had it already for six and a half years! Now that it has been six and a half days since it's been taken away, people aren't used to the new normal. I want things to go back, at least in regards to Rapids, to the way they were.

SilverBride

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Cyrodiil is still big, but all your true PvPers are already going to have enough skill to have it, because they actually spend time PvPing. And new Pvpers will just have to earn it, like any new player of any kind. I don't know why people think are entitled to start off riding as fast as someone who took the time to work the trait up.

"entitled"?

Because we had it already for six and a half years! Now that it has been six and a half days since it's been taken away, people aren't used to the new normal.

You shouldn't have had it at all unless you were a PvPer. Just because you aren't used to the new normal doesn't mean it should be reverted. I don't like the Vampire changes either, but I'm not going to cry over it.

I wish they would make PvP skills only usable in Cyrodiil, but I suspect there may a programming reason they haven't.

BeefcakeManwich

I have rapids on all my toons. Even tho half of my characters are writ crafters camping out in Vivec. I think it's a win win for ZOS. People with money will spend crowns in the store. If not, they get more activity in BGs. The Cyrodiil tutorial then BGs grind honestly was not bad. It's not reverting back. Yes I was that guy wearing training gear in BGs 😬

Nicole94

nukk3r wrote: »

So I just checked a thing. I went to some keeps that were recently defended and just repaired the walls. It got me 30k AP in about 30 min. I didn't fight anyone and didn't have to ride anywhere, just chilled in empty keeps and pressed one button.

lol WOW! I call hacks. I get 25-85 AP per repair, that's total, not 25k. Great job! I have multiple pvp characters... I have NEVER got 30k AP repairs in 3 hours of playing nightly, much less 30 min.

Nicole94

Hurbster wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

DipItInCider wrote: »

Hi I am new to the forum. I signed up mainly because I wanted to voice my opinion about rapid maneuver. Since they changed it to rank 5 I only have one character on n/a and e/u that have it. Before I had it on all my characters and I feel I earned it.

Except players didn't do any PvP to earn it.

You only needed to do a short 30-second Intro to Cyrodiil quest to unlock Rapids in the pre-Stonethorn days. Actually, players didn't even need to do that ... they could also just log in and collect any AP daily reward on their new character.

Players still retain their progress in the skill line (that's not lost). Now, they just have to actually PvP to earn the unlock at Assault Level 5.

What a surprise...

I really don't understand this argument, seriously is there a part that is not explained? How can I explain this to you that can clarify what we are saying? Your comment "except you never did anything to earn it" is directly applicable to Vigor now...

I do both. I enjoy the WHOLE game. Both pve and pvp. People have asked for stamina heal like Vigor over and over, for stamina classes. Zos picked Vigor. Please understand people asking for Vigor or something like it were NOT asking for it JUST for pvp, they want it for PVE. Doesn't that kinda blow up your whole pvp skill argument?

Rapids has been rank 2 since the game started. It was a poorly planned decision to move it. It hurts new players. It should have REMAINED at rank 2, vigor moved to rank 3 BOTH unlock after tutorial, giving you a choice, speed or stam heal.

It is an inconvenience for me on my crafters, just a SLIGHT inconvenience, because they are max rank speed and bags and stamina because I was bored, and what's 250g per training. Will it impact MY pvp? Slightly, because now it will be 50-60 days before I set foot in Cyrodiil with a new character. But for those that do not have multiple characters, like a new person, may not have the resources to set a character at the stable for 2 months.

I run in groups, and it is not fun trying to keep rapids on slow people. I feel for them, and I try to keep rapids on them because I am a nice person. I wish we all could be nice. I wish this didn't have to be silly and fruitless arguments over this. It is just so petty. Every single player benefited from Rapids, especially newer players. It shouldn't have ever been turned into Us vs Them or Pve vs Pvp... This was a terrible, poorly planned, and quite honestly, lazy skill swap. With virtually no extra time, they could have changed Vigor to rank 3, left Rapids at 2 and what? OMG everyone would have been happy? Anyways, cheers and happy hunting.

Nicole94

SilverBride wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

"Rapid maneuvers was intended as a pure PvP skill to compensate for the dimensions and long walking distances in Cyrodiil."


Cyrodiil is still big, but all your true PvPers are already going to have enough skill to have it, because they actually spend time PvPing. And new Pvpers will just have to earn it, like any new player of any kind. I don't know why people think are entitled to start off riding as fast as someone who took the time to work the trait up.

Entitled? lol There is not a SINGLE pvper that played before this swap EARNED rapids, neither did you. I have played since 3/2/2014 What are you on about? Work it up? ALL players have ALWAYS walked in did the tutorial and like magic we got Rapids.... Come on /sigh

Amunari

I can tell you as a designer, this is likely not the case what they are saying. Thought im not sure, i suspect that everyone was using it, and the server was tracking it, and some of the load on the server was form this skill.

Thats why i suspect the change.

Nicole94

Amunari wrote: »

I can tell you as a designer, this is likely not the case what they are saying. Thought im not sure, i suspect that everyone was using it, and the server was tracking it, and some of the load on the server was form this skill.

Thats why i suspect the change.

I thought about this too, but why wouldn't they tell us, and it is certainly not a "fix" for it since we can all get it back. Or just not play characters that don't have it. I don't think, they actually put much thought into it honestly.

Uudrost

On second thought I might be able to help PVE players (a bit) with the loss of Rapid Maneuver.
I run a crafting guild (Mundane Magic) with all ESO crafting stations, Mundus Stones and access to about 50 properties throughout Tamreil.
All members are free to use all resources - including properties as jumping off points.
There are no requirements and few announcements (other than the addition of more property).

SilverBride

Nicole94 wrote: »

Entitled? lol There is not a SINGLE pvper that played before this swap EARNED rapids, neither did you. I have played since 3/2/2014 What are you on about? Work it up? ALL players have ALWAYS walked in did the tutorial and like magic we got Rapids.... Come on /sigh

I said "I don't know why people think they are entitled to start off riding as fast as someone who took the time to work the trait up." The trait being the mount's speed trait.

For some reason you think that not only is it ok for you to use a skill meant purely for PvP as a means for your new characters to move fast without having to train your mount speed up... you actually think it's your right. That is the pure definition of entitlement.

Sgrug

Nicole94 wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

I can tell you as a designer, this is likely not the case what they are saying. Thought im not sure, i suspect that everyone was using it, and the server was tracking it, and some of the load on the server was form this skill.

Thats why i suspect the change.

I thought about this too, but why wouldn't they tell us, and it is certainly not a "fix" for it since we can all get it back. Or just not play characters that don't have it. I don't think, they actually put much thought into it honestly.

I just cannot believe this would be the reason, seems to short sighted given everyone could have ot back in just a few months. Also this change has caused a large amount of anger in the player base, the forums only represent a small fraction, for any issue good or bad one can usually assume the forums are at best 10% of the real player base Zeitgeist.

I do not believe such a change was so poorly thought out.

Regardless this really should be corrected, it doe snot have to be reverted, there are better solutions and I am asking please any ZOS reading this to consider how better to work this out.

TineaCruris

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Rapid is useless anyway...never unlocked it across 18 characters and never plan to

Also i leveluped assault to 7 on all my character si if i need rank 7 skill for any character sometime for any reason i wont have to go and do pvp if im not feeling too

Also its like 97k ap wich can easily be done in an evening even with low rank mount you just need to know were the zerg is going and not waist at the transit wayshrine for the battle to start

The change was done to promote crown store sales of mount training and alliance skill lines. There is no in game justification for the change that makes sense.

finehair

Linaleah wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

So I just checked a thing. I went to some keeps that were recently defended and just repaired the walls. It got me 30k AP in about 30 min. I didn't fight anyone and didn't have to ride anywhere, just chilled in empty keeps and pressed one button.

video or it didn't happen.

because.

1. there were apparently enough recently defended keeps for you to travel to which is.. huh, interesting coincidence.
2. none of those keeps were repaired by people who defended them apparently - another interesting coincidence.
3. you apparently had a ton of repair kits on hand (or bough them and how much did THAT cost, I want the exact number of kits you used)

You get the defence tick on defended keeps if you repair ANY wall or door that is not %100 hp, and you need to repair it ONCE. Not to full hp, just spend 1 repair kit and boom, now you will get the same def tick as the guy who killed half of the enemy zerg by himself. You won't get the ap from kills obviously. But def ticks are the juiciest ap you get most of the time anyway.

I repeatedly told in this and other threads about rapid cries; join one of the crowded campaigns, in prime time there are keeps under attack almost %100 of the time. Buy yourself about 20 repair kits of each, and few oils if you want to help defending, but not necessary.

Then just read the zonechat, one of your homekeeps called us? Instantly port there and find a wall to repair, a back wall or postern house doesn't need to be the wall or door that is under siege. Nothing to repair? Heal someone who jumped from the wall. No one to heal? Do a light attack from wall to any enemy player. No ranged abilities? Buy a ballista and shoot something. Not enough ap to buy ballista? Steal one and shoot something once and leave it.


Doing one of these puts you on the defend tick list. If it's a small attack you'll get about 4-5k ap. If it's a decent attack you get 8-10k. If it's a proper siege you get 12-15. If it's one of those situations you barely defended you get over 20k. By doing nothing but being present there and doing one of those things.

Easier version; go one of the keeps that is likely to be under attack. Have 4 flaming oils ready. When enemy arrives and starts ramming, place 4 oils and "shoot" them all at once. You will get 3-4 kills in ram. Even if the keep is lost, you will get a defend tick from killing people. And because you are vastly outnumbered and killed multiple people, that def tick is stupidly big. Like at least 15k.

I got about 30k ap multiple times in one keep just from being the only person in the keep and oiling. Without any ap buff.

Sure but it is easier to just ignore this wall of text and cry about your "earned" rapids being taking away.

Sgrug

finehair wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

So I just checked a thing. I went to some keeps that were recently defended and just repaired the walls. It got me 30k AP in about 30 min. I didn't fight anyone and didn't have to ride anywhere, just chilled in empty keeps and pressed one button.

video or it didn't happen.

because.

1. there were apparently enough recently defended keeps for you to travel to which is.. huh, interesting coincidence.
2. none of those keeps were repaired by people who defended them apparently - another interesting coincidence.
3. you apparently had a ton of repair kits on hand (or bough them and how much did THAT cost, I want the exact number of kits you used)

You get the defence tick on defended keeps if you repair ANY wall or door that is not %100 hp, and you need to repair it ONCE. Not to full hp, just spend 1 repair kit and boom, now you will get the same def tick as the guy who killed half of the enemy zerg by himself. You won't get the ap from kills obviously. But def ticks are the juiciest ap you get most of the time anyway.

I repeatedly told in this and other threads about rapid cries; join one of the crowded campaigns, in prime time there are keeps under attack almost %100 of the time. Buy yourself about 20 repair kits of each, and few oils if you want to help defending, but not necessary.

Then just read the zonechat, one of your homekeeps called us? Instantly port there and find a wall to repair, a back wall or postern house doesn't need to be the wall or door that is under siege. Nothing to repair? Heal someone who jumped from the wall. No one to heal? Do a light attack from wall to any enemy player. No ranged abilities? Buy a ballista and shoot something. Not enough ap to buy ballista? Steal one and shoot something once and leave it.


Doing one of these puts you on the defend tick list. If it's a small attack you'll get about 4-5k ap. If it's a decent attack you get 8-10k. If it's a proper siege you get 12-15. If it's one of those situations you barely defended you get over 20k. By doing nothing but being present there and doing one of those things.

Easier version; go one of the keeps that is likely to be under attack. Have 4 flaming oils ready. When enemy arrives and starts ramming, place 4 oils and "shoot" them all at once. You will get 3-4 kills in ram. Even if the keep is lost, you will get a defend tick from killing people. And because you are vastly outnumbered and killed multiple people, that def tick is stupidly big. Like at least 15k.

I got about 30k ap multiple times in one keep just from being the only person in the keep and oiling. Without any ap buff.

Sure but it is easier to just ignore this wall of text and cry about your "earned" rapids being taking away.

And I have started, having been a PvP player hardcore in 2015-2016 doing all you said it takes 5 to 7 hours to chase enough AP that way for a novice PvPr. That is a reasonable average, not pie in the sky, I am an uber PvP'r with social contacts in PvP and regular PvP groups AP/hr hardcore grind rate. I know because I went back knowing all you just wrote and I played on a busy server at peak time and it too me 6 hours for one toon and 5 for another.

5 to 7 hours is not game breaking but it is also not trivial, especially when a skill that has been used for 6 years was just taken away and made much more difficult to get, with a game-play style many who had Rapids before detest.

Sgrug

WeerW3ir wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

I mean... Are you f. kidding me with this all? All that complain. Seriously. Would take you minimal pvp to go join a team and capture the castles. In midyear mayhem you can get even more. My all char (13 character) have it. And mostly i did it under the event. Its not hurts to do it.

What would have you do if they take rapid and swap it with 3rd or 4th skill? Just Seriously...

It's a skill that didn't require PVP for six and a half years.

Newsflash: Not everyone likes PVP. Getting rapids back is not minimal PVP either, it's about three to six hours of grinding. Multiply that over the sometimes numerous number of alts a few people have and it becomes rather overwhelming.

[Quoted post was removed]

3-4 hours is a good time to reach it. I could just as easily say you are seriously doing something wrong if you find Vet Dungeons hard mode difficult, or if you have less than 100 million on the bank and a craft bag with less than 70- mill worth of mats on hand. Yet I don't, because I understand the difference between someone experienced and not experienced, someone who knows a certain aspect of the game and someone who does not.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

WeerW3ir

Sgrug wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

I mean... Are you f. kidding me with this all? All that complain. Seriously. Would take you minimal pvp to go join a team and capture the castles. In midyear mayhem you can get even more. My all char (13 character) have it. And mostly i did it under the event. Its not hurts to do it.

What would have you do if they take rapid and swap it with 3rd or 4th skill? Just Seriously...

It's a skill that didn't require PVP for six and a half years.

Newsflash: Not everyone likes PVP. Getting rapids back is not minimal PVP either, it's about three to six hours of grinding. Multiply that over the sometimes numerous number of alts a few people have and it becomes rather overwhelming.

You certenly doing something WRONG if you need more than 3-4 HOURS to reach it...

And what... DID you HONESTLY thought they wont ever change the skill? Conplaining about uh "they DARED to change it after 6 years...." what will i do now... Bruhuhu

3-4 hours is a good time to reach it. I could just as easily say you are seriously doing something wrong if you find Vet Dungeons hard mode difficult, or if you have less than 100 million on the bank and a craft bag with less than 70- mill worth of mats on hand. Yet I don't, because I understand the difference between someone experienced and not experienced, someone who knows a certain aspect of the game and someone who does not.

Just epeening on the forums about how easy something suspposedly is does not make it so.

Neither wont make it so if you fill the entire forum with this hoping they will change it back. When you deeply know They WONT. they did not turn back the snipe either and the same issues were here too. Yes. You can claim its different. But the point is that. You must let it GO, and ADAPT/EMBRACE to it.

Im telling you this because once i do felt the same. Nothing changed. I had to accept it

aussie500

I am definitely not a PVP player, but all my nightblades even the little teeny low level one were already Assault level 5 so they could get vigor and actually be able to survive better. But still it was a shock when some of my younger magicka based characters lost their rapids, they do not have their mounts up to speed yet, and are woeful at running.

I lost no time sending the young Templar back down to Cyrodiil that was running all over Tamriel doing antiquities, she can run faster than her horse even without rapids! Doing a few keeps and some resources was a pain with such low speed, since all the fighting was usually over before she could get there, she advanced from 3 to 5 eventually, but I was getting annoyed.

My woeful dragon knight also returned to get his rapids back, he resorted to mainly repairing walls, since I had so much repair stuff from one of the events, and there was nothing going on he could join in on.

Of 26 characters, 6 young ones lost their rapids, 2 others were only level 4 but kept their rapids, I have 4 more to return at some point to get their rapids back, all on my main account. No slow ones will be doing the IC event. None of my characters older than a year were affected, they were all Assault level 5 or more, going down chasing all those skyshards over the years.

I will survive the inconvenience of having multiple brats doing Cyrodil just to get their rapids back, unfortunately I will be unlikely to ever make any more characters so will miss out on the advantage of actually being able to get vigor a bit easier. But I am sure their will be a lot of players with nightblades that will appreciate the change.

Kazren

I'm in the same boat as aussie500. I have all 18 alts. My stamina nightblades all had Rapid Manuever and caltrops, but my other 15 characters only got RM. Now, I have to take them all to PVP, which I DO NOT LIKE, just to get back what I had already earned.

Who is the DEV who thought this swap was a good idea? Maybe that person should actually play the game with a new character who can't afford to buy riding lessons from the Crown store and see how incredibly frustrating it is.

PLEASE PUT RAPID MANUEVER BACK IN THE FIRST SLOT.

esotoon

SilverBride wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

You must let it GO, and ADAPT/EMBRACE to it.

WeerW3ir wrote: »

You must let it GO, and ADAPT/EMBRACE to it.

WeerW3ir wrote: »

You must let it GO, and ADAPT/EMBRACE to it.

Not very constructive statement, especially given all the people saying that in this thread have all complained about stuff on this forum that THEY did like/agree with.

SilverBride

esotoon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

You must let it GO, and ADAPT/EMBRACE to it.

WeerW3ir wrote: »

You must let it GO, and ADAPT/EMBRACE to it.

WeerW3ir wrote: »

You must let it GO, and ADAPT/EMBRACE to it.

Not very constructive statement, especially given all the people saying that in this thread have all complained about stuff on this forum that THEY did like/agree with.

I was just quoting what another poster who used rapids said in his post. And it's very good advice. Yes, I could have just said it once, but I really wanted to get the point across.

I doubt very much this is going to change. So why not let it go and adapt to it? Instead of threads about not liking the change, start one with tips on adapting. Form groups to go into PvP and work on this together. Then if this doesn't get changed you are ahead of the game. And if it does you are still ahead of the game.

AlnilamE

Kavar162 wrote: »

Omg just craft 5pc shacklebreaker, 5pc axiom and grab a monster helm and just join a group in Cyrodiil. That will literally work for every single character. Enough to get 3 more levels of ap. Make a day out of it! Watch some Netflix, order a damn pizza. Like I get it, you don't like pvp but it is what it is. I don't like pve but I'm not out here trying to burn down zos hq because I have to find vDSA for perfect masters staffs. I just do it.

But you didn't have to grind the original Master's Staff, did you?

PS: I have rapids on all my characters, but I see how this change has affected my guildies and they are not enjoying PvP any more than they did before. It's just slower now.

SilverBride

AlnilamE wrote: »

I have rapids on all my characters, but I see how this change has affected my guildies...

This just made me realize something. Not one person in my guild has brought this up, let alone indicated that it's negatively affecting them. And I've not heard a single person in zone chat, in any zone, complain about it. I don't think this is an actual in game issue as much as it is a forum issue.

esotoon

SilverBride wrote: »

I doubt very much this is going to change. So why not let it go and adapt to it? Instead of threads about not liking the change, start one with tips on adapting. Form groups to go into PvP and work on this together. Then if this doesn't get changed you are ahead of the game. And if it does you are still ahead of the game.

ZOS have now specifically said that they are monitoring the forums for feedback on this issue. If they are monitoring the forum to get feedback, telling people who have issues with this situation to let it go and just adapt seems counterproductive to both the interests of the players and to what ZOS themselves are wanting.

On top of that, when people have told you that if you don't have an issue with the rapids change then why are you posting in this thread, you have argued that people are free to post their opinion on any topic on the forums, yet here you are telling people not to post. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?