Why such a heavy nerf to crystal fragments? [A ray of light brought relief]

Anyron

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wait, I thought they said the Crystal Frag proc Damage was within 1%. Are you all complaining about the hard cast damage?

No. They reduced base damage by 22% which also reduced proc damage, because proc damage is calculated from base damage

Or maybe i missed something there.

Miloscpolski

Dracane wrote: »

22% damage reduction for crystal fragments seems extremely heavy. It's the one signature offensive ability sorcerer has and now it will again hit for too little.
You buffed its damage several times because we pointed out that after the removal of the stun, it was not strong enough anymore to warrant its use. Now it will be weaker than it was on launch. No stun and almost the same damage as on launch.

Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs? I sincerely hope that Stamina Sorcerers and their new shiny spammable are not to blame for this. You have finally done it and taken away from magicka sorcerers with your conquest to get more stamina abilities....

Please increase the proc damage of crystal fragments to compensate for the heavy base damage nerf. At this point, its damage is reduced so heavily, that the stun can as well get added back to it.

"Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs?" ahahaha Hello from overnerfed magicka dk XD

WrathOfInnos

Dracane wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wait, I thought they said the Crystal Frag proc Damage was within 1%. Are you all complaining about the hard cast damage?

Well, this is merely a dwindling hope.

As I understand it right now: Crystal Shard is reduced by 21%. Crystal fragments proc has been reduced from 33% to 32%. So a 22% nerf for the final fragments compared to live.

What I hope: Crystal Shards reduced by 21%. The Proc changed from 33% to 53% to compensate.
The Patchnotes are very unprecise. I lean towards the first scenario.

Hmm, I definitely interpreted it as no real change to the instant proc, just the hard cast version had its damage reduced since it can be cast faster and used as a spammable to proc additional instant Frags now. I guess we’ll find out soon.

Dracane

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wait, I thought they said the Crystal Frag proc Damage was within 1%. Are you all complaining about the hard cast damage?

Well, this is merely a dwindling hope.

As I understand it right now: Crystal Shard is reduced by 21%. Crystal fragments proc has been reduced from 33% to 32%. So a 22% nerf for the final fragments compared to live.

What I hope: Crystal Shards reduced by 21%. The Proc changed from 33% to 53% to compensate.
The Patchnotes are very unprecise. I lean towards the first scenario.

Hmm, I definitely interpreted it as no real change to the instant proc, just the hard cast version had its damage reduced since it can be cast faster and used as a spammable to proc additional instant Frags now. I guess we’ll find out soon.

Then these patchnotes are very very vague. They would have said that the proc has been increased to 53% damage, resulting in a roughly 1% decrease. They did not though.

I pray you are right and that nothing changes. Then we can all be happy ever after.

Glantir

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wait, I thought they said the Crystal Frag proc Damage was within 1%. Are you all complaining about the hard cast damage?

Well, this is merely a dwindling hope.

As I understand it right now: Crystal Shard is reduced by 21%. Crystal fragments proc has been reduced from 33% to 32%. So a 22% nerf for the final fragments compared to live.

What I hope: Crystal Shards reduced by 21%. The Proc changed from 33% to 53% to compensate.
The Patchnotes are very unprecise. I lean towards the first scenario.

Hmm, I definitely interpreted it as no real change to the instant proc, just the hard cast version had its damage reduced since it can be cast faster and used as a spammable to proc additional instant Frags now. I guess we’ll find out soon.

The Patch Notes says "these abilities" not "ability" so i think its also affect the frags morph base dmg.....

kojou

I think the intention of the change was to make Frags into more of a spammable with an ~800 ms cast time. If a player chooses it to use it this way and get a instant cast every so often that does more damage while saving bar space by dropping Force Pulse or whatever spammable for another DoT then it could actually work out as a buff.

I don't really like playing Sorc, so I am not an expert, but that is what I feel like the intention was.

Ezhh

As a non-pet sorc main (the wing motion makes me feel ill, yes I know about hide group, no it's not always a good answer, yes I'd try pets if there was a proper way to hide them) this hurts.

I already struggle to compete with pet-sorcs and every other class as a magDD viable for harder trials, but I've been able to so far clear every HM (other than the last HM in the newest trial). I already know without pets I won't ever be able to consider certain achievements or score runs, and adding this nerf into one of my most important skills is going to push me even further behind.

I'm totally in favour of the stam morph, but please don't mess up non-pet this much in the process of adding it.

Dracane

Glantir wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wait, I thought they said the Crystal Frag proc Damage was within 1%. Are you all complaining about the hard cast damage?

Well, this is merely a dwindling hope.

As I understand it right now: Crystal Shard is reduced by 21%. Crystal fragments proc has been reduced from 33% to 32%. So a 22% nerf for the final fragments compared to live.

What I hope: Crystal Shards reduced by 21%. The Proc changed from 33% to 53% to compensate.
The Patchnotes are very unprecise. I lean towards the first scenario.

Hmm, I definitely interpreted it as no real change to the instant proc, just the hard cast version had its damage reduced since it can be cast faster and used as a spammable to proc additional instant Frags now. I guess we’ll find out soon.

The Patch Notes says "these abilities" not "ability" so i think its also affect the frags morph base dmg.....

Sadly yes. So I am 90% certain that it is exactly like I said.
What they meant to say with that line is that in proportion to the main cast, it now deals 1% less than before. But in the end, 22% less than now.

West93

iCaliban wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

Maybe because cyrodiil is full *** load of magsorcs for a reason because healing nerf took less hit to them, also abusing elemental weapon overload health desync.

Wait, so, your fix for "abusing elemental weapon overloard health desync" sorcs is to nerf Crystal Fragments damage?

Anyone else has problem to see connection here?

Ol ele weave isnt a desync. Its just a lot of damage. Players cry desync when they dont understand why it hurts so much

It is banned in dueling tournaments for a reason, sometimes it bugs out your health bar, maybe do some research first, this desync has been for a long time.

Agenericname

Dracane wrote: »

Glantir wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wait, I thought they said the Crystal Frag proc Damage was within 1%. Are you all complaining about the hard cast damage?

Well, this is merely a dwindling hope.

As I understand it right now: Crystal Shard is reduced by 21%. Crystal fragments proc has been reduced from 33% to 32%. So a 22% nerf for the final fragments compared to live.

What I hope: Crystal Shards reduced by 21%. The Proc changed from 33% to 53% to compensate.
The Patchnotes are very unprecise. I lean towards the first scenario.

Hmm, I definitely interpreted it as no real change to the instant proc, just the hard cast version had its damage reduced since it can be cast faster and used as a spammable to proc additional instant Frags now. I guess we’ll find out soon.

The Patch Notes says "these abilities" not "ability" so i think its also affect the frags morph base dmg.....

Sadly yes. So I am 90% certain that it is exactly like I said.
What they meant to say with that line is that in proportion to the main cast, it now deals 1% less than before. But in the end, 22% less than now.

I'm inclined to agree. That's what the wording lead me to believe as well.

I suppose we will see soon enough.

Bunny_guar

But..but why?

Crystal Frags was fine as it was, the skill is both dodgeable and reflectable not to mention easy to tell when it's about to be cast and because of those risks the reward was big damage when it landed; but now it's just risk and the reward is noodle damage.

(Why do I get the feeling they are trying to cull Mag-play like they did the deer in Cyro? 🤔)

Anyron

Something else needs to be tested too. That "safety window"... I hope its not like on dark deal/conversion when it makes you unable to use skills/barswap.

This is Zos. Everything is possible

Dracane

Anyron wrote: »

Something else needs to be tested too. That "safety window"... I hope its not like on dark deal/conversion when it makes you unable to use skills/barswap.

This is Zos. Everything is possible

I have just taken all my values, damage numbers and thingies on the live server to jump right in when it comes up.

Impen nerfed, most other traits buffed. Some interesting set changes... This patch could be nice if not for this black thunder cloud in the form of a heavy nerf.

Mickey

Dracane wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Something else needs to be tested too. That "safety window"... I hope its not like on dark deal/conversion when it makes you unable to use skills/barswap.

This is Zos. Everything is possible

I have just taken all my values, damage numbers and thingies on the live server to jump right in when it comes up.

Impen nerfed, most other traits buffed. Some interesting set changes... This patch could be nice if not for this black thunder cloud in the form of a heavy nerf.

Down to test all the numbers if you send your @name , mine is @Nextuality

WombatNipples65

Not like they need it, all you need to do to play a Magsorc is Elemental Weapon + Overload.

Dracane

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

Not like they need it, all you need to do to play a Magsorc is Elemental Weapon + Overload.

Yet the fewest do that. Everyone just spams crushing shock, as well as those few Sorcerers who actually use overload.
I wish more would use elemental weapons. Crushing shock is extremely annoying.

WombatNipples65

Dracane wrote: »

WombatNipples65 wrote: »

Not like they need it, all you need to do to play a Magsorc is Elemental Weapon + Overload.

Yet the fewest do that. Everyone just spams crushing shock, as well as those few Sorcerers who actually use overload.
I wish more would use elemental weapons. Crushing shock is extremely annoying.

Yep you're right. But I do think a change to Frags is needed but this definitely isn't the one it needs. Way too heavy of a nerf.

VaranisArano

Why blame Stam Sorcs? ZOS kept trying to make mag Crystal Blast good and nobody wanted to use it.

Chilly-McFreeze

VaranisArano wrote: »

Why blame Stam Sorcs? ZOS kept trying to make mag Crystal Blast good and nobody wanted to use it.

In b4 "but so many RP'ers used it!!!11!"

Dracane

VaranisArano wrote: »

Why blame Stam Sorcs? ZOS kept trying to make mag Crystal Blast good and nobody wanted to use it.

It was used a lot though. It is an ability perfect for newer players and also bombers used it.
ESO tries so hard to cater to inexperienced players and crystal blast was used a lot when you look around in pvp and overland. Yes yes, it's not high end by any means. But people wanted it, but they are simply not vocal here on the forums and can't speak for themselves.

Anyway, if it turns out that Crystal Fragments was not nerfed and stamina finally got their spammable, then everyone can be happy. Except for those poor beings that do not read the patchnotes and will have a crude awakening next patch.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Why blame Stam Sorcs? ZOS kept trying to make mag Crystal Blast good and nobody wanted to use it.

In b4 "but so many RP'ers used it!!!11!"

Pfff. Mock me all you desire. Evil.

Davadin

Dracane wrote: »

...
Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs?
...

oh... hai there!

/wave

- Dragonknights

Dracane

Davadin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

...
Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs?
...

oh... hai there!

/wave

- Dragonknights

But but but, you mostly receive indirect nerfs that are tied to game mechanics.
Sorcerer nerfs are always blatant, preposterous and in your face.

PureEnvelope35

The decision making behind most balance changes are probably just done in a game of bingo or a rampage of writing fueled by a certain white powder you find in public restrooms, another such example would be nerfing Necropotence by a whole 18 Magicka...

Rianai

Dracane wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

...
Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs?
...

oh... hai there!

/wave

- Dragonknights

But but but, you mostly receive indirect nerfs that are tied to game mechanics.
Sorcerer nerfs are always blatant, preposterous and in your face.

As if this has any relevance ...

Aside from this, magsorcs are probably the class that has the best chances of getting nerfs reverted, or even turned into buffs, so don't worry and just keep crying (IF frags got actually nerfed that is).

idk

Dracane wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The reduction in damage is probably due to the reduction of cast time which was pretty much not needed for the one morph.

Edit: This is a great case for why Zos should post their reasoning for changes when making such significant adjustments.

Which would be fine when it comes to the base ability. Reducing its cast time, albeit pointless, can justify this reducting. But none of this has to do with crystal fragments. So the solution should clearly be to increase the % bonus of the proc to keep it roughly at the same level as on live.

I agree. It is one thing reducing damage when reducing the cast time on an ability where the cast time will be an issue but reducing damage to justify reducing the damage on a skill that is designed to be used as an instant cast is nonsense and a blatant move to nerf the skill. Your point that increasing the bonus damage when frags are proced would have made this change seem more sensible but Zos even reduced the bonus damage as well.

It is also why I stated this is a solid case where Zos should post their reasoning in the patch notes, especially since this is an incremental patch. As it is this change makes no sense and is why we have little faith in the logic used for making many of the combat changes we have seen.

Dracane

Mietzmietzmietzmietz! It turns out it is indeed but a poor explaination. They have added the lost damage to Crystal Fragementina.

Celestro

Awesome. Wins all around then.

SodanTok

This is why ZoS ignores forums, somehow there can be 2 pages of complains about something nobody seen or tried

Dracane

SodanTok wrote: »

This is why ZoS ignores forums, somehow there can be 2 pages of complains about something nobody seen or tried

There was always the chance that it turns out as it did now.
But you have to admit that the patchnote regarding this can be interpreted in both ways.
I found it the right thing to immediately bring this up just in case and I would do it again.

jaws343

The 10% less cost on next ability is pretty decent too. The cast time just makes it so undesirable for a spammable. I can't see it beating out FP or ele weapon, even if it can proc itself.

However, can someone confirm if casting the actual Frag proc can proc another frag, or is it only the normal cast that does? If so, you could chain these if you are lucky.