Why such a heavy nerf to crystal fragments? [A ray of light brought relief]

martijnlv40

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

I think at first people misinterpreted it, they thought the proc morph would also be nerfed. But that’s not the case. They put the 1% loss in the notes and you calculate that too, but what I found with values on the pts is that it’s even a 0,2% buff for my build (only using procs). Really weird but it’s fine either way.

Dracane

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

Jodynn

Just make the base instant cast, and the extra effects also apply to frags.

Cast times are lame especially on a spammable, this would also alleviate the freaking accidental hard casting nightmare ESPECIALLY in lag.

Tammany

West93 wrote: »

Maybe because cyrodiil is full *** load of magsorcs for a reason because healing nerf took less hit to them, also abusing elemental weapon overload health desync.

Maybe because people badly want to play range class, and magsorc is the best (and only) choice, if you dont want to be sneaky ganking blade ?

Celestro

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

Dracane

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

However, crystal shard is not a sufficient spammable.
I wish to refer to the post from @WrathOfInnos in the Combat&Class feedback thread.
It is clunky and does not fit with pve rotations.

Crystal Shard does not replace normal spammables in its current form. So all Sorcerer is left with (as of now) is damage nerfs.

SodanTok

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

However, crystal shard is not a sufficient spammable.
I wish to refer to the post from @WrathOfInnos in the Combat&Class feedback thread.
It is clunky and does not fit with pve rotations.

Crystal Shard does not replace normal spammables in its current form. So all Sorcerer is left with (as of now) is damage nerfs.

How many DPS parses have you performed with Crystal Frag to be able to tell its not sufficient spammable? Coz if it results in most DPS it will be used and if not it needs to be buffed in damage, thats all there is to it. Why do you think people use and used WB, Flurry, Jabs or Snipe in PVE? It matters 0 if its clunky and you cant barswap, it matters 0 if you cant drink potion or synergy during it and it matters 0 if it causes uptime on other skills to not be 100% It either results in more DPS or it doesnt do enough damage and needs buff.

Celestro

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

However, crystal shard is not a sufficient spammable.
I wish to refer to the post from @WrathOfInnos in the Combat&Class feedback thread.
It is clunky and does not fit with pve rotations.

Crystal Shard does not replace normal spammables in its current form. So all Sorcerer is left with (as of now) is damage nerfs.

Yes I'm aware, hence the quotes on sufficent. My point is why direct that blame to those requesting a stamsorc spammable and not ZOS (or even those requesting a magsorc spammable)? Its like you have a great reasonableness about you in a lot of ways except when it comes to stamsorc.

Dracane

SodanTok wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

However, crystal shard is not a sufficient spammable.
I wish to refer to the post from @WrathOfInnos in the Combat&Class feedback thread.
It is clunky and does not fit with pve rotations.

Crystal Shard does not replace normal spammables in its current form. So all Sorcerer is left with (as of now) is damage nerfs.

How many DPS parses have you performed with Crystal Frag to be able to tell its not sufficient spammable? Coz if it results in most DPS it will be used and if not it needs to be buffed in damage, thats all there is to it. Why do you think people use and used WB, Flurry, Jabs or Snipe in PVE? It matters 0 if its clunky and you cant barswap, it matters 0 if you cant drink potion or synergy during it and it matters 0 if it causes uptime on other skills to not be 100% It either results in more DPS or it doesnt do enough damage and needs buff.

Yes, quite a simple logic.
I am by no means a good pve dps. I have never played Sorcerer as a DD and only ever as a tank and healer. So my understanding of what to use is certainly not high end. But in my rotations, it was never a dps gain and made the entire rotation feel very bad and unreliable on top.

Maybe professional DPS' can come to another conclusion or maybe they do not. Either way, why leave it in such a clunky and strange state? The hardcast has always been clunky and buggy, something that has not changed and something that does not apply to flurry and Wrecking Blow. So comparing it to them in this case seems like a stretch.

Dracane

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

However, crystal shard is not a sufficient spammable.
I wish to refer to the post from @WrathOfInnos in the Combat&Class feedback thread.
It is clunky and does not fit with pve rotations.

Crystal Shard does not replace normal spammables in its current form. So all Sorcerer is left with (as of now) is damage nerfs.

Yes I'm aware, hence the quotes on sufficent. My point is why direct that blame to those requesting a stamsorc spammable and not ZOS (or even those requesting a magsorc spammable)? Its like you have a great reasonableness about you in a lot of ways except when it comes to stamsorc.

Stamsorcs commit theft. Yes, that is what they do. They are thieves.
Sorcerer is a mage and they vote to have it turned into a warrior abomination. The way I see it, crystal shards base damage was reduced to create a fitting damage value for a melee spammable - crystal weapons. They had to reduce its base damage so that crystal weapons is not too strong. That is why I blame Stamsorcs for this.

For magsorc, nothing has become better except for crystal fragments being weaker, even if only slightly.
Now if they go ahead and make the patchnotes true - aka giving crystal fragments procs the 10% cost reduction and maybe allow procs to create procs as claimed in the patchnotes; then I am fine with it. As of now however, Magsorc was left in the dirt.

I offer you my gratitude however, for your kind words.

the1andonlyskwex

Dracane wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

However, crystal shard is not a sufficient spammable.
I wish to refer to the post from @WrathOfInnos in the Combat&Class feedback thread.
It is clunky and does not fit with pve rotations.

Crystal Shard does not replace normal spammables in its current form. So all Sorcerer is left with (as of now) is damage nerfs.

How many DPS parses have you performed with Crystal Frag to be able to tell its not sufficient spammable? Coz if it results in most DPS it will be used and if not it needs to be buffed in damage, thats all there is to it. Why do you think people use and used WB, Flurry, Jabs or Snipe in PVE? It matters 0 if its clunky and you cant barswap, it matters 0 if you cant drink potion or synergy during it and it matters 0 if it causes uptime on other skills to not be 100% It either results in more DPS or it doesnt do enough damage and needs buff.

Yes, quite a simple logic.
I am by no means a good pve dps. I have never played Sorcerer as a DD and only ever as a tank and healer. So my understanding of what to use is certainly not high end. But in my rotations, it was never a dps gain and made the entire rotation feel very bad and unreliable on top.

Maybe professional DPS' can come to another conclusion or maybe they do not. Either way, why leave it in such a clunky and strange state? The hardcast has always been clunky and buggy, something that has not changed and something that does not apply to flurry and Wrecking Blow. So comparing it to them in this case seems like a stretch.

There is a huge change to the hard cast in this patch. They reduced the cast time from 1s to 0.8s. That will make a significant difference in its viability as a spammable. Whether it's a sufficient change to get people to actually use it that way is yet to be seen.

Indigogo

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Dracane

Indigogo wrote: »

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Although it was used so frequently by a surprising amount of sorcerers.
Someone made a suggestion to have the hard cast of crystal shard remain crystal blast, by making it this mortar that deals aoe damage but less single target and leaving the fragment proc as it is.

This would also have the benefit of giving them different visuals; which could help opponents in pvp to better know what is going on.

Dracane

-

the1andonlyskwex

Indigogo wrote: »

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Same.

Celestro

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

However, crystal shard is not a sufficient spammable.
I wish to refer to the post from @WrathOfInnos in the Combat&Class feedback thread.
It is clunky and does not fit with pve rotations.

Crystal Shard does not replace normal spammables in its current form. So all Sorcerer is left with (as of now) is damage nerfs.

Yes I'm aware, hence the quotes on sufficent. My point is why direct that blame to those requesting a stamsorc spammable and not ZOS (or even those requesting a magsorc spammable)? Its like you have a great reasonableness about you in a lot of ways except when it comes to stamsorc.

Stamsorcs commit theft. Yes, that is what they do. They are thieves.
Sorcerer is a mage and they vote to have it turned into a warrior abomination. The way I see it, crystal shards base damage was reduced to create a fitting damage value for a melee spammable - crystal weapons. They had to reduce its base damage so that crystal weapons is not too strong. That is why I blame Stamsorcs for this.

For magsorc, nothing has become better except for crystal fragments being weaker, even if only slightly.
Now if they go ahead and make the patchnotes true - aka giving crystal fragments procs the 10% cost reduction and maybe allow procs to create procs as claimed in the patchnotes; then I am fine with it. As of now however, Magsorc was left in the dirt.

I offer you my gratitude however, for your kind words.

Lol in some way that is understandable then. Making it a ripoff Crushing Weapons versus at least a ripoff WB so that Crystal Fragments could have stayed the same given the equal cast times would have been preferable. I really do hope both of those features are implemented for Frags though, or at the very least, the -10% cost to non-Ultimate skills (man that would have been lovely to have it applied to ults since we don't have any ult generation passives).

Lord-Otto

Indigogo wrote: »

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Next best thing is Elemental Ring from the destro line. I have occasionally used it in smal PvP groups, even. To acceptable results. Try it out!
C=

Dracane

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Celestro wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

Nontheless, it leaves a sour taste that we lose 1,4% of our main damaging ability in the name of stamina sorcerers.
They could have as well given it a slight buff for a change and make 67% or 68%. That would not have been the end of the world, but would have felt a lot better to those affected. So all in all, it's another patch that made magicka sorcerer worse than it was before and that could have been avoided.

This change was to provide both mag and stam sorcerers "sufficient" spammables. Don't understand your concentrated blame on stamsorcs when both specs requested spammables (with mag technically already having one).

Really, they could've very well adjusted the skill without providing a stam morph but sought to provide the magsorc with a sufficient spammable and had the same end result.

However, crystal shard is not a sufficient spammable.
I wish to refer to the post from @WrathOfInnos in the Combat&Class feedback thread.
It is clunky and does not fit with pve rotations.

Crystal Shard does not replace normal spammables in its current form. So all Sorcerer is left with (as of now) is damage nerfs.

Yes I'm aware, hence the quotes on sufficent. My point is why direct that blame to those requesting a stamsorc spammable and not ZOS (or even those requesting a magsorc spammable)? Its like you have a great reasonableness about you in a lot of ways except when it comes to stamsorc.

Stamsorcs commit theft. Yes, that is what they do. They are thieves.
Sorcerer is a mage and they vote to have it turned into a warrior abomination. The way I see it, crystal shards base damage was reduced to create a fitting damage value for a melee spammable - crystal weapons. They had to reduce its base damage so that crystal weapons is not too strong. That is why I blame Stamsorcs for this.

For magsorc, nothing has become better except for crystal fragments being weaker, even if only slightly.
Now if they go ahead and make the patchnotes true - aka giving crystal fragments procs the 10% cost reduction and maybe allow procs to create procs as claimed in the patchnotes; then I am fine with it. As of now however, Magsorc was left in the dirt.

I offer you my gratitude however, for your kind words.

Lol in some way that is understandable then. Making it a ripoff Crushing Weapons versus at least a ripoff WB so that Crystal Fragments could have stayed the same given the equal cast times would have been preferable. I really do hope both of those features are implemented for Frags though, or at the very least, the -10% cost to non-Ultimate skills (man that would have been lovely to have it applied to ults since we don't have any ult generation passives).

It would be very lovely indeed. Not allowing frags to actually proc frags, I guess I can understand from a pvp standpoint.
For pve it would have been a lot of fun and the cost reduction on frags would have also improved one of magsorc's longterm concerns in pve - being sustain issues.

I hope they change this yet. It would have made my mourning for the pet changes and basically the loss of my hardcast opener less bitter.

Imagine how rewarding that would feel in pve. Having those lucky moments where your frag procs a frag and maybe another and you just bombard the bosses with them, all while having that honey feeling of getting some cost reduction for your next spells. Lovely.

the1andonlyskwex

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Indigogo wrote: »

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Next best thing is Elemental Ring from the destro line. I have occasionally used it in smal PvP groups, even. To acceptable results. Try it out!
C=

On my build, Elemental Ring does something like half as much damage as Crystal Blast.

NocturnalSonata

Reading complaints on frag spam not being viable?

Frag spam seems fine to me tbh... i am not an elite dps, so hitting 80k+ on live = the same on pts with frag spam as a pet sorc. The only diff is, that now i have a free slot open to mess with something else. TBH it feels nice to actually use more sorc abilities. sustain feels better too.

I dont know how it looks for dd's shooting past 85k on live, but the view (at least imo) for the <85k is looking just fine.

Brrrofski

Somewhere wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I also want to add something that makes the addition to crystal shard seem pretty pointless.
It speaks about the cost decrease of 10%. This only applies after the hard casted shard, not crystal fragment proc.

So it's pretty much the same as on live.

It looks like that was put there really for the newer players that actually do spam crystal shard. I think for people who have gotten the hang of properly weaving and using crystal fragments on proc (not that it's all that difficult mind you), there is no change.

I could see some small use for it in pvp. After all, dizzying swing has a cast time of 800ms and people use that. I really only see a zoo sorc using it though since they're pretty short on bar space and having crystal fragments act as a spammable helps a bit.

Not just newer players.

The amount of 810s I see hard casting frags is actually quite silly. And I don't mean by accident, I mean over and over.

Brrrofski

My favourite ever sirc nerf was when the nerfed old curse (was it called like velocious or something?) to explode after 6 seconds instead of 3.5, then there was an uproar, so they reverted it AND added a second explosion.

It was ridiculous.

Dracane

Brrrofski wrote: »

My favourite ever sirc nerf was when the nerfed old curse (was it called like velocious or something?) to explode after 6 seconds instead of 3.5, then there was an uproar, so they reverted it AND added a second explosion.

It was ridiculous.

Really? I am glad I did not play during that pts. My nerves would not have endured.
I sense your intention though. You seem afraid that they could overbuff fragments now.

I would not entertain this thought since they were not even willing to properly increase fragments damage and rather left it as a small nerf rather than making it a bit stronger instead. I do not see a buff coming rather than a fix.

Lord-Otto

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Indigogo wrote: »

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Next best thing is Elemental Ring from the destro line. I have occasionally used it in smal PvP groups, even. To acceptable results. Try it out!
C=

On my build, Elemental Ring does something like half as much damage as Crystal Blast.

Oh, yes, for sure. But it's instant cast. Or very close to it, there's a wonky animation. I have ground AoE set to insta-cast, btw.

the1andonlyskwex

Lord-Otto wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Indigogo wrote: »

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Next best thing is Elemental Ring from the destro line. I have occasionally used it in smal PvP groups, even. To acceptable results. Try it out!
C=

On my build, Elemental Ring does something like half as much damage as Crystal Blast.

Oh, yes, for sure. But it's instant cast. Or very close to it, there's a wonky animation. I have ground AoE set to insta-cast, btw.

Elemental Ring also costs MORE than Crystal Blast, for half as much damage. Crystal Blast is good because it's an AoE that adheres to the single-target cost and damage standards. Elemental Ring uses the AoE cost and damage standards.

The fact that Elemental Ring is instant cast doesn't really help because the GCD makes it impossible to cast anywhere close to two Elemental Rings in the time it takes to cast Crystal Blast. Once you also account for the cost, and the fact that Crystal Blast also has a stun, there's no comparison.

Crystal Blast is a huge outlier relative to ZOS's cost and damage standards.

Dracane

Brrrofski wrote: »

My favourite ever sirc nerf was when the nerfed old curse (was it called like velocious or something?) to explode after 6 seconds instead of 3.5, then there was an uproar, so they reverted it AND added a second explosion.

It was ridiculous.

Really? I am glad I did not play during that pts. My nerves would not have endured.
I sense your intention though. You seem afraid that they could overbuff fr

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Indigogo wrote: »

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Next best thing is Elemental Ring from the destro line. I have occasionally used it in smal PvP groups, even. To acceptable results. Try it out!
C=

On my build, Elemental Ring does something like half as much damage as Crystal Blast.

Oh, yes, for sure. But it's instant cast. Or very close to it, there's a wonky animation. I have ground AoE set to insta-cast, btw.

Elemental Ring also costs MORE than Crystal Blast, for half as much damage. Crystal Blast is good because it's an AoE that adheres to the single-target cost and damage standards. Elemental Ring uses the AoE cost and damage standards.

The fact that Elemental Ring is instant cast doesn't really help because the GCD makes it impossible to cast anywhere close to two Elemental Rings in the time it takes to cast Crystal Blast. Once you also account for the cost, and the fact that Crystal Blast also has a stun, there's no comparison.

Crystal Blast is a huge outlier relative to ZOS's cost and damage standards.

And there you have it. If you have read the Update preview, they said that they want to look at class requests and outliers. It is a decent assumption that crystal blast was such an outlier and was a fitting sacrifical lamb to fuel the stamina supremacy.

Lord-Otto

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Indigogo wrote: »

My poor magsorc is being gutted by taking away crystal blast. 😥
He's my solo-er who clears massive mobs with the aoe damage.
He's my pvp-er who slams people back on their butts and melts them in a blast combo.

I know it was laughed at by most but I love my hard casting sorc. RIP.

Next best thing is Elemental Ring from the destro line. I have occasionally used it in smal PvP groups, even. To acceptable results. Try it out!
C=

On my build, Elemental Ring does something like half as much damage as Crystal Blast.

Oh, yes, for sure. But it's instant cast. Or very close to it, there's a wonky animation. I have ground AoE set to insta-cast, btw.

Elemental Ring also costs MORE than Crystal Blast, for half as much damage. Crystal Blast is good because it's an AoE that adheres to the single-target cost and damage standards. Elemental Ring uses the AoE cost and damage standards.

The fact that Elemental Ring is instant cast doesn't really help because the GCD makes it impossible to cast anywhere close to two Elemental Rings in the time it takes to cast Crystal Blast. Once you also account for the cost, and the fact that Crystal Blast also has a stun, there's no comparison.

Crystal Blast is a huge outlier relative to ZOS's cost and damage standards.

Well, then don't use it. I'm just trying to help.

the1andonlyskwex

Dracane wrote: »

And there you have it. If you have read the Update preview, they said that they want to look at class requests and outliers. It is a decent assumption that crystal blast was such an outlier and was a fitting sacrifical lamb to fuel the stamina supremacy.

Oh, absolutely. ZOS probably saw the lack of popularity combined with the massive power budget as a clear sign of a skill requiring a total rework.

Glantir

Doesnt have Temps and stams with Rapid Strikes the same issue with Synergies/Potions etc.?
Or can you use this during a channeld ability?

opaj

How many folks here have tested the updated frags as a ranged spammable? I have to admit that I only looked at Crystal Weapon, since I'm not a huge fan of the Crystal Fragments hard cast animation, but maybe I'll try it out tonight if we need more hands-on perspectives on this.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Not just newer players.

The amount of 810s I see hard casting frags is actually quite silly. And I don't mean by accident, I mean over and over.

I have hard cast frags over and over... by accident. Some of us are just that special.


@Dracane -- I know you've had a lot of people pestering you to update the thread, but the title still strikes me as a little misleading. "A ray of light" implies that there were heavy nerfs, but it's not all bad; I'd argue that this change is mostly lateral moves and minor nerfs. Just a thought.