Why such a heavy nerf to crystal fragments? [A ray of light brought relief]

jaws343

@Dracane Curious if that 3200 tooltip you posted earlier for the hardcast for Frags is in a full setup? If so, it seems incredibly weak for a spammable. Especially one with a cast time. Since I can hit 3K, unbuffed, for each element in a single FP cast. Only doing 3K for a spammable that has a cast time with a chance to do more damage is pretty weak.

SodanTok

Joy_Division wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The OP should be updated to include the proper information, there will be a ton of people that only read the OP and don't actually test the skill on the PTS.

TLDR:
Hard Casting now meets Spammable standards, while instant proc continues to function like on live.

• Same Cost as the Spammable Standard, 2700 instead of 2970.
• Same Damage as the Melee Spammable Standard which is equal to about +11% dmg vs the Ranged Spammable Standard.
  • Ele Weapon, Silver Shard, Force Pulse, Flame Skull, Dive = 1000 dmg
  • Whip, Veiled Strike, NEW Crystal Frag/Crystal Weapon = 1139 dmg
• Cast time fits within 1 GCD at 0.8s, theoretically enough time to Light Attack weave without issue.
• Hard Casting can proc the instant proc

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

After using it for awhile, I actually really enjoyed it as a spammable. Using this as a spammable in pve is 100% possible, players who hate cast times will never enjoy it, but as a stam sorc main, I've been using Flurry/Wrecking Blow forever to the same effect, if not worse at times. This is even easier to use because it's ranged and will give crazy sustain, healing and damage due to the constant instant procs.

In pvp, ehhh. I doubt it would feel good to use, combat is too fast paced, cast time + minimum projectile travel time = easy to dodge, I'd continue using it soley as a proc based burst skill.

End Result, Stam Sorcs have a spammable, Mag Sorcs have a spammable. Finally. First patch in a long time that ZOS seems to be shaking up the status quo and finally going against their 6 years rigid stance on not drastically changing anything Mag Sorc related. I look forward to their more complete class skill/passive audit they eluded to.

You're explanation is clear.

Though I'm not applauding ZOS's end result here because:

• Mag sorcs have a spammable, but it's a dumb cast time which 1) no other class is stuck with 2) disadvantageous in PvP, 3) disadvantageous with bar swaps, block-casting, synergy activation, etc.,
• I waited 6 years for a stam sroc spammable and they gave me something akin to crushing weapon with a nicer animation. Well, at least I dont have to do that grindy quest-line I guess.

You just described disadvantages of currently 3 most popular, strongest and widely used spammables in the game. Dizzy/WB, Flurry and Jabs/Sweeps with honorable mention of Snipe.
Sorcs will never be happy in this game lol.

jaws343

SodanTok wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The OP should be updated to include the proper information, there will be a ton of people that only read the OP and don't actually test the skill on the PTS.

TLDR:
Hard Casting now meets Spammable standards, while instant proc continues to function like on live.

• Same Cost as the Spammable Standard, 2700 instead of 2970.
• Same Damage as the Melee Spammable Standard which is equal to about +11% dmg vs the Ranged Spammable Standard.
  • Ele Weapon, Silver Shard, Force Pulse, Flame Skull, Dive = 1000 dmg
  • Whip, Veiled Strike, NEW Crystal Frag/Crystal Weapon = 1139 dmg
• Cast time fits within 1 GCD at 0.8s, theoretically enough time to Light Attack weave without issue.
• Hard Casting can proc the instant proc

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

After using it for awhile, I actually really enjoyed it as a spammable. Using this as a spammable in pve is 100% possible, players who hate cast times will never enjoy it, but as a stam sorc main, I've been using Flurry/Wrecking Blow forever to the same effect, if not worse at times. This is even easier to use because it's ranged and will give crazy sustain, healing and damage due to the constant instant procs.

In pvp, ehhh. I doubt it would feel good to use, combat is too fast paced, cast time + minimum projectile travel time = easy to dodge, I'd continue using it soley as a proc based burst skill.

End Result, Stam Sorcs have a spammable, Mag Sorcs have a spammable. Finally. First patch in a long time that ZOS seems to be shaking up the status quo and finally going against their 6 years rigid stance on not drastically changing anything Mag Sorc related. I look forward to their more complete class skill/passive audit they eluded to.

You're explanation is clear.

Though I'm not applauding ZOS's end result here because:

• Mag sorcs have a spammable, but it's a dumb cast time which 1) no other class is stuck with 2) disadvantageous in PvP, 3) disadvantageous with bar swaps, block-casting, synergy activation, etc.,
• I waited 6 years for a stam sroc spammable and they gave me something akin to crushing weapon with a nicer animation. Well, at least I dont have to do that grindy quest-line I guess.

You just described disadvantages of currently 3 most popular, strongest and widely used spammables in the game. Dizzy/WB, Flurry and Jabs/Sweeps with honorable mention of Snipe.
Sorcs will never be happy in this game lol.

No-one uses D-swing seriously in PVE, jabs/sweeps/flurry are all channels that do damage throughout the channel. A spammable with a cast time is not doing damage during the cast time.

Dracane

jaws343 wrote: »

@Dracane Curious if that 3200 tooltip you posted earlier for the hardcast for Frags is in a full setup? If so, it seems incredibly weak for a spammable. Especially one with a cast time. Since I can hit 3K, unbuffed, for each element in a single FP cast. Only doing 3K for a spammable that has a cast time with a chance to do more damage is pretty weak.

No, do not worry. That was the first thing I checked and screenshoted when I gained access to the PTS with a template. I was naked when I took it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Any thoughts you wanna share?
(0w0)

@Lord-Otto

My first thought is that a Dev took a 20K Thrassian Frag to the face in the Mayhem event. LOL.

I am going to need to see how it plays out on PTS. The fact that it can proc on it self is a bigger buff than a lot of people are going to realize. You are going to get more frag procs now, so if the goal was to keep the damage the same, a nerf to the base damage was appropriate. I havent done the math, but it seems about right. Looks like B4B is going bye bye with the changes as well, which indirectly helps sorcs (as they were really the only mag class that couldnt use it all that well in trial content).

In PVP, you are now going to be able to double spam frags 1/3 of the time. If they actually fixed it so you dont accidentally start channeling, that will be a pretty noticeable improvement as well.

My gut instinct is that it's one of those nerfs that is shocking at first sight, but may end up not being much of anything.

SodanTok

jaws343 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The OP should be updated to include the proper information, there will be a ton of people that only read the OP and don't actually test the skill on the PTS.

TLDR:
Hard Casting now meets Spammable standards, while instant proc continues to function like on live.

• Same Cost as the Spammable Standard, 2700 instead of 2970.
• Same Damage as the Melee Spammable Standard which is equal to about +11% dmg vs the Ranged Spammable Standard.
  • Ele Weapon, Silver Shard, Force Pulse, Flame Skull, Dive = 1000 dmg
  • Whip, Veiled Strike, NEW Crystal Frag/Crystal Weapon = 1139 dmg
• Cast time fits within 1 GCD at 0.8s, theoretically enough time to Light Attack weave without issue.
• Hard Casting can proc the instant proc

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

After using it for awhile, I actually really enjoyed it as a spammable. Using this as a spammable in pve is 100% possible, players who hate cast times will never enjoy it, but as a stam sorc main, I've been using Flurry/Wrecking Blow forever to the same effect, if not worse at times. This is even easier to use because it's ranged and will give crazy sustain, healing and damage due to the constant instant procs.

In pvp, ehhh. I doubt it would feel good to use, combat is too fast paced, cast time + minimum projectile travel time = easy to dodge, I'd continue using it soley as a proc based burst skill.

End Result, Stam Sorcs have a spammable, Mag Sorcs have a spammable. Finally. First patch in a long time that ZOS seems to be shaking up the status quo and finally going against their 6 years rigid stance on not drastically changing anything Mag Sorc related. I look forward to their more complete class skill/passive audit they eluded to.

You're explanation is clear.

Though I'm not applauding ZOS's end result here because:

• Mag sorcs have a spammable, but it's a dumb cast time which 1) no other class is stuck with 2) disadvantageous in PvP, 3) disadvantageous with bar swaps, block-casting, synergy activation, etc.,
• I waited 6 years for a stam sroc spammable and they gave me something akin to crushing weapon with a nicer animation. Well, at least I dont have to do that grindy quest-line I guess.

You just described disadvantages of currently 3 most popular, strongest and widely used spammables in the game. Dizzy/WB, Flurry and Jabs/Sweeps with honorable mention of Snipe.
Sorcs will never be happy in this game lol.

No-one uses D-swing seriously in PVE, jabs/sweeps/flurry are all channels that do damage throughout the channel. A spammable with a cast time is not doing damage during the cast time.

Yeah, they use WB not dizzy.

caperon

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

VoidCommander

katorga wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Yeah... and they nerfed Sorc Pet stat scaling so you need more stats now to make them as effective as they were before... it's not like Magplars are OP or anything, no, no, please nerf signature Sorc spells instead!

Dunno. If pets finally scale from dmg/magicka like other skills, won't that make them more effective with more builds?

Not sure why the clanfear got its self heal nerfed, lol.

I think Templars may have gotten shafted with burning light, and I think sweeps got its heal nerfed. Hard to tell from the wording.

Yes, more variety of builds will be able to utilize pets effectively.
Clanfear heal got nerfed due to pvp. It was impossible to kill.

Sweeps heal got corrected to what it should have been doing for the past i don’t know how many months. It heals for EACH target hit instead of the first. This was a major buff. The 333ms has no observable effect on sweeps, even with light attack canceling.

Burning light: short answer is that it is worse now. Long answer is as follows:
It procs after any SINGLE awdric spear ability deals damage 4 times. This damage needs to be at most 1 second apart from each other. This means cresent sweeps can’t proc it now. This means you have to hit with ALL sweeps attacks for it to work, instead of having a chance. Aedric spear has a total of 11 ticks of damage, which means instead of the normal chance of getting 3 procs 75% of the time, we are left with a max 2 procs, and that is ONLY if it is dealing damage the whole time. It is clear that they are doing this to minimize the server calculations, but they need to make the passive count the damage together from ALL aedric spear abilities, not just each if them individually.

Dracane

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Any thoughts you wanna share?
(0w0)

@Lord-Otto

My first thought is that a Dev took a 20K Thrassian Frag to the face in the Mayhem event. LOL.

I am going to need to see how it plays out on PTS. The fact that it can proc on it self is a bigger buff than a lot of people are going to realize. You are going to get more frag procs now, so if the goal was to keep the damage the same, a nerf to the base damage was appropriate. I havent done the math, but it seems about right. Looks like B4B is going bye bye with the changes as well, which indirectly helps sorcs (as they were really the only mag class that couldnt use it all that well in trial content).

In PVP, you are now going to be able to double spam frags 1/3 of the time. If they actually fixed it so you dont accidentally start channeling, that will be a pretty noticeable improvement as well.

My gut instinct is that it's one of those nerfs that is shocking at first sight, but may end up not being much of anything.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw This is not the case unfortunately. The patchnotes were not correct.
You can not proc crystal fragments with themselves. It's the same as it is on live.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Any thoughts you wanna share?
(0w0)

@Lord-Otto

My first thought is that a Dev took a 20K Thrassian Frag to the face in the Mayhem event. LOL.

I am going to need to see how it plays out on PTS. The fact that it can proc on it self is a bigger buff than a lot of people are going to realize. You are going to get more frag procs now, so if the goal was to keep the damage the same, a nerf to the base damage was appropriate. I havent done the math, but it seems about right. Looks like B4B is going bye bye with the changes as well, which indirectly helps sorcs (as they were really the only mag class that couldnt use it all that well in trial content).

In PVP, you are now going to be able to double spam frags 1/3 of the time. If they actually fixed it so you dont accidentally start channeling, that will be a pretty noticeable improvement as well.

My gut instinct is that it's one of those nerfs that is shocking at first sight, but may end up not being much of anything.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw This is not the case unfortunately. The patchnotes were not correct.
You can not proc crystal fragments with themselves. It's the same as it is on live.

Well that is misleading. I have been out of town, so just got to look at patch notes (briefly) this morning. Has their been any explanation on this? Pretty hard to justify that nerf without that.

Dracane

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Any thoughts you wanna share?
(0w0)

@Lord-Otto

My first thought is that a Dev took a 20K Thrassian Frag to the face in the Mayhem event. LOL.

I am going to need to see how it plays out on PTS. The fact that it can proc on it self is a bigger buff than a lot of people are going to realize. You are going to get more frag procs now, so if the goal was to keep the damage the same, a nerf to the base damage was appropriate. I havent done the math, but it seems about right. Looks like B4B is going bye bye with the changes as well, which indirectly helps sorcs (as they were really the only mag class that couldnt use it all that well in trial content).

In PVP, you are now going to be able to double spam frags 1/3 of the time. If they actually fixed it so you dont accidentally start channeling, that will be a pretty noticeable improvement as well.

My gut instinct is that it's one of those nerfs that is shocking at first sight, but may end up not being much of anything.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw This is not the case unfortunately. The patchnotes were not correct.
You can not proc crystal fragments with themselves. It's the same as it is on live.

Well that is misleading. I have been out of town, so just got to look at patch notes (briefly) this morning. Has their been any explanation on this? Pretty hard to justify that nerf without that.

I guess you had no time to read through the thread. Maybe I should indeed take the time to edit the OP.
The patchnotes were merely extremely vague.

The base damage of shard has been reduced by over 20% and the proc from fragments has been increased to 66% to compensate. Now it is like 1% less damage than before. Even on live though, crystal shard hardcast can proc fragments. So what they intended is evidently for procs to have a chance to proc themselves as you said. This is not working right now though.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Any thoughts you wanna share?
(0w0)

@Lord-Otto

My first thought is that a Dev took a 20K Thrassian Frag to the face in the Mayhem event. LOL.

I am going to need to see how it plays out on PTS. The fact that it can proc on it self is a bigger buff than a lot of people are going to realize. You are going to get more frag procs now, so if the goal was to keep the damage the same, a nerf to the base damage was appropriate. I havent done the math, but it seems about right. Looks like B4B is going bye bye with the changes as well, which indirectly helps sorcs (as they were really the only mag class that couldnt use it all that well in trial content).

In PVP, you are now going to be able to double spam frags 1/3 of the time. If they actually fixed it so you dont accidentally start channeling, that will be a pretty noticeable improvement as well.

My gut instinct is that it's one of those nerfs that is shocking at first sight, but may end up not being much of anything.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw This is not the case unfortunately. The patchnotes were not correct.
You can not proc crystal fragments with themselves. It's the same as it is on live.

Well that is misleading. I have been out of town, so just got to look at patch notes (briefly) this morning. Has their been any explanation on this? Pretty hard to justify that nerf without that.

I guess you had no time to read through the thread. Maybe I should indeed take the time to edit the OP.
The patchnotes were merely extremely vague.

The base damage of shard has been reduced by over 20% and the proc from fragments has been increased to 66% to compensate. Now it is like 1% less damage than before. Even on live though, crystal shard hardcast can proc fragments. So what they intended is evidently for procs to have a chance to proc themselves as you said. This is not working right now though.

Did not read the whole thread, I got tagged in like the third post, and just saw it a few hours ago. I did find some of the patch notes very vague. I read the frags section 3 times and still am not quite sure what stam frags are supposed to do. Haha.

Lord-Otto

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Any thoughts you wanna share?
(0w0)

@Lord-Otto

My first thought is that a Dev took a 20K Thrassian Frag to the face in the Mayhem event. LOL.

I am going to need to see how it plays out on PTS. The fact that it can proc on it self is a bigger buff than a lot of people are going to realize. You are going to get more frag procs now, so if the goal was to keep the damage the same, a nerf to the base damage was appropriate. I havent done the math, but it seems about right. Looks like B4B is going bye bye with the changes as well, which indirectly helps sorcs (as they were really the only mag class that couldnt use it all that well in trial content).

In PVP, you are now going to be able to double spam frags 1/3 of the time. If they actually fixed it so you dont accidentally start channeling, that will be a pretty noticeable improvement as well.

My gut instinct is that it's one of those nerfs that is shocking at first sight, but may end up not being much of anything.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw This is not the case unfortunately. The patchnotes were not correct.
You can not proc crystal fragments with themselves. It's the same as it is on live.

Well that is misleading. I have been out of town, so just got to look at patch notes (briefly) this morning. Has their been any explanation on this? Pretty hard to justify that nerf without that.

I guess you had no time to read through the thread. Maybe I should indeed take the time to edit the OP.
The patchnotes were merely extremely vague.

The base damage of shard has been reduced by over 20% and the proc from fragments has been increased to 66% to compensate. Now it is like 1% less damage than before. Even on live though, crystal shard hardcast can proc fragments. So what they intended is evidently for procs to have a chance to proc themselves as you said. This is not working right now though.

Did not read the whole thread, I got tagged in like the third post, and just saw it a few hours ago. I did find some of the patch notes very vague. I read the frags section 3 times and still am not quite sure what stam frags are supposed to do. Haha.

Yeah, I'm sorry. The wording in the notes was very misleading.

Regarding BfB, while it helps sorcs, it seems our pets are nerfed, so... *sigh* And on the other hand, vampires are now super dead in endgame. What a useless "re-vamp".
>=C

Icarus42

My crystal frag proc hits between 34k and 35k on crit on my current live build. I tested it out on pts same build and specs as live and my crystal frag procs now for between 36k and 37k on crit. So in other words this new version of crystal *** gives the ability a 2k bump approximately. At least that is what I found on my particular build. People should test stuff before they freak, we got a bump guys be happy!!

Chilly-McFreeze

Icarus42 wrote: »

My crystal frag proc hits between 34k and 35k on crit on my current live build. I tested it out on pts same build and specs as live and my crystal frag procs now for between 36k and 37k on crit. So in other words this new version of crystal *** gives the ability a 2k bump approximately. At least that is what I found on my particular build. People should test stuff before they freak, we got a bump guys be happy!!

Did you take the buffs to divines, sharpened etc into consideration?

katorga

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Any thoughts you wanna share?
(0w0)

@Lord-Otto

My first thought is that a Dev took a 20K Thrassian Frag to the face in the Mayhem event. LOL.

I am going to need to see how it plays out on PTS. The fact that it can proc on it self is a bigger buff than a lot of people are going to realize. You are going to get more frag procs now, so if the goal was to keep the damage the same, a nerf to the base damage was appropriate. I havent done the math, but it seems about right. Looks like B4B is going bye bye with the changes as well, which indirectly helps sorcs (as they were really the only mag class that couldnt use it all that well in trial content).

In PVP, you are now going to be able to double spam frags 1/3 of the time. If they actually fixed it so you dont accidentally start channeling, that will be a pretty noticeable improvement as well.

My gut instinct is that it's one of those nerfs that is shocking at first sight, but may end up not being much of anything.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw This is not the case unfortunately. The patchnotes were not correct.
You can not proc crystal fragments with themselves. It's the same as it is on live.

Well that is misleading. I have been out of town, so just got to look at patch notes (briefly) this morning. Has their been any explanation on this? Pretty hard to justify that nerf without that.

I guess you had no time to read through the thread. Maybe I should indeed take the time to edit the OP.
The patchnotes were merely extremely vague.

The base damage of shard has been reduced by over 20% and the proc from fragments has been increased to 66% to compensate. Now it is like 1% less damage than before. Even on live though, crystal shard hardcast can proc fragments. So what they intended is evidently for procs to have a chance to proc themselves as you said. This is not working right now though.

Yep. That was what I took from the notes, "this is new". Hard cast frags can proc frags on live right now. But they couldn't possibly intend to add something that cool to mag sorc, lol. If RNG gods smiled on you and you got a sequence of 5-6 procs in a row...would be so much fun, so random, reactive, so "un-rotation".

Dracane

Icarus42 wrote: »

My crystal frag proc hits between 34k and 35k on crit on my current live build. I tested it out on pts same build and specs as live and my crystal frag procs now for between 36k and 37k on crit. So in other words this new version of crystal *** gives the ability a 2k bump approximately. At least that is what I found on my particular build. People should test stuff before they freak, we got a bump guys be happy!!

@Icarus42

Calm down. You have certainly made a mistake in your testing or maybe had a sharpened weapon, which is now stronger on the pts. Divines and Infused is also stronger. Maybe your set even got buffed.

I have tested it and can confirm what Zenimax said. Being that it deals less than 1% less damage. There is no doubt about that and I encourage you to revisit your setup before accusing us.

Langeston

Dracane wrote: »

Icarus42 wrote: »

My crystal frag proc hits between 34k and 35k on crit on my current live build. I tested it out on pts same build and specs as live and my crystal frag procs now for between 36k and 37k on crit. So in other words this new version of crystal *** gives the ability a 2k bump approximately. At least that is what I found on my particular build. People should test stuff before they freak, we got a bump guys be happy!!

@Icarus42

Calm down. You have certainly made a mistake in your testing or maybe had a sharpened weapon, which is now stronger on the pts. Divines and Infused is also stronger. Maybe your set even got buffed.

I have tested it and can confirm what Zenimax said. Being that it deals less than 1% less damage. There is no doubt about that and I encourage you to revisit your setup before accusing us.

In all fairness, the title of this thread says "Why such a heavy nerf to crystal fragments?" and the OP says:

Dracane wrote: »

22% damage reduction for crystal fragments seems extremely heavy. It's the one signature offensive ability sorcerer has and now it will again hit for too little.
You buffed its damage several times because we pointed out that after the removal of the stun, it was not strong enough anymore to warrant its use. Now it will be weaker than it was on launch. No stun and almost the same damage as on launch.

Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs? I sincerely hope that Stamina Sorcerers and their new shiny spammable are not to blame for this. You have finally done it and taken away from magicka sorcerers with your conquest to get more stamina abilities....

Please increase the proc damage of crystal fragments to compensate for the heavy base damage nerf. At this point, its damage is reduced so heavily, that the stun can as well get added back to it.

Nearly everything in the OP has been found to be incorrect, yet it still sits there uncorrected with 27 "Agrees" and 3 "Awesomes." Maybe you should quote @MashmalloMan's post on the previous page and add it to the OP as an addendum — because as it stands right now, the OP is misinformation that is just going to get magsorcs riled up for no reason.

Dracane

Langeston wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Icarus42 wrote: »

My crystal frag proc hits between 34k and 35k on crit on my current live build. I tested it out on pts same build and specs as live and my crystal frag procs now for between 36k and 37k on crit. So in other words this new version of crystal *** gives the ability a 2k bump approximately. At least that is what I found on my particular build. People should test stuff before they freak, we got a bump guys be happy!!

@Icarus42

Calm down. You have certainly made a mistake in your testing or maybe had a sharpened weapon, which is now stronger on the pts. Divines and Infused is also stronger. Maybe your set even got buffed.

I have tested it and can confirm what Zenimax said. Being that it deals less than 1% less damage. There is no doubt about that and I encourage you to revisit your setup before accusing us.

In all fairness, the title of this thread says "Why such a heavy nerf to crystal fragments?" and the OP says:

Dracane wrote: »

22% damage reduction for crystal fragments seems extremely heavy. It's the one signature offensive ability sorcerer has and now it will again hit for too little.
You buffed its damage several times because we pointed out that after the removal of the stun, it was not strong enough anymore to warrant its use. Now it will be weaker than it was on launch. No stun and almost the same damage as on launch.

Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs? I sincerely hope that Stamina Sorcerers and their new shiny spammable are not to blame for this. You have finally done it and taken away from magicka sorcerers with your conquest to get more stamina abilities....

Please increase the proc damage of crystal fragments to compensate for the heavy base damage nerf. At this point, its damage is reduced so heavily, that the stun can as well get added back to it.

Nearly everything in the OP has been found to be incorrect, yet it still sits there uncorrected with 27 "Agrees" and 3 "Awesomes." Maybe you should quote @MashmalloMan's post on the previous page and add it to the OP as an addendum — because as it stands right now, the OP is misinformation that is just going to get magsorcs riled up for no reason.

I have edited the OP to state the currently known facts.
I decided to not copy his post because it is not entirely correct (for example the statement that crystal shard hard casting is as fast as normal spammables in a real rotation) and sometimes misses the point of the topic.

Langeston

Dracane wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Icarus42 wrote: »

My crystal frag proc hits between 34k and 35k on crit on my current live build. I tested it out on pts same build and specs as live and my crystal frag procs now for between 36k and 37k on crit. So in other words this new version of crystal *** gives the ability a 2k bump approximately. At least that is what I found on my particular build. People should test stuff before they freak, we got a bump guys be happy!!

@Icarus42

Calm down. You have certainly made a mistake in your testing or maybe had a sharpened weapon, which is now stronger on the pts. Divines and Infused is also stronger. Maybe your set even got buffed.

I have tested it and can confirm what Zenimax said. Being that it deals less than 1% less damage. There is no doubt about that and I encourage you to revisit your setup before accusing us.

In all fairness, the title of this thread says "Why such a heavy nerf to crystal fragments?" and the OP says:

Dracane wrote: »

22% damage reduction for crystal fragments seems extremely heavy. It's the one signature offensive ability sorcerer has and now it will again hit for too little.
You buffed its damage several times because we pointed out that after the removal of the stun, it was not strong enough anymore to warrant its use. Now it will be weaker than it was on launch. No stun and almost the same damage as on launch.

Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs? I sincerely hope that Stamina Sorcerers and their new shiny spammable are not to blame for this. You have finally done it and taken away from magicka sorcerers with your conquest to get more stamina abilities....

Please increase the proc damage of crystal fragments to compensate for the heavy base damage nerf. At this point, its damage is reduced so heavily, that the stun can as well get added back to it.

Nearly everything in the OP has been found to be incorrect, yet it still sits there uncorrected with 27 "Agrees" and 3 "Awesomes." Maybe you should quote @MashmalloMan's post on the previous page and add it to the OP as an addendum — because as it stands right now, the OP is misinformation that is just going to get magsorcs riled up for no reason.

I have edited the OP to state the currently known facts.
I decided to not copy his post because it is not entirely correct (for example the statement that crystal shard hard casting is as fast as normal spammables in a real rotation) and sometimes misses the point of the topic.

Emma_Overload

Anyron wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The cast time just makes it so undesirable for a spammable. I can't see it beating out FP or ele weapon, even if it can proc itself.

But isn't the cast time short enough to fit, dizzy like, in the gcd?

For PVP maybe. I could see myself fitting this into a PVP build, dropping FP as a spammable and slotting rune cage again with the added bar slot. Unfortunately, using it as a spammable will make you weak against DKs with their wings.

But in PVE, that cast time is a DPS loss.

Rune Cage.
(o_ô)

You could be surprised how good that skill is for destroying stamina pools.
Because of that one thing that is clearly obvious before you got stun

use one, let them roll it, use another and so on. At some point they let that stun land on them, but most players don't do it and they just waste their stamina for rolling.

But what's the point? If you're spamming Cage, you're not setting up damage.

Starve them of their stamina and then you have free window when you can just kill them while they are waiting for stamina to CC break

Also its cheaper than keep spamming skills in hope some can get through roll dodge spam. With rune cage you just cast it few times and then bomb them while they are unable to do anything.

I can confirm that this works sometimes, and it's really funny when it happens. The problem with this method is that good players wise up to it fast.

Emma_Overload

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

Crystal Weapon is just ugly stepbrother of Crushing Weapon from Psijic Order Skills, it has less healing, less utility, its really need Crystal Blast style AoE explosion around target on cast chance like Crystal Shards or on certain number of light attacks like Relentless Focus\Bound Armaments.

Yeah, but you can use them both at the same time for burst...

Rahar

Should've just increased the proc damage to compensate for the base damage nerf.

EDIT: Reading through a few comments, this was done? If so, there's no issue.

Dracane

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The cast time just makes it so undesirable for a spammable. I can't see it beating out FP or ele weapon, even if it can proc itself.

But isn't the cast time short enough to fit, dizzy like, in the gcd?

For PVP maybe. I could see myself fitting this into a PVP build, dropping FP as a spammable and slotting rune cage again with the added bar slot. Unfortunately, using it as a spammable will make you weak against DKs with their wings.

But in PVE, that cast time is a DPS loss.

Rune Cage.
(o_ô)

You could be surprised how good that skill is for destroying stamina pools.
Because of that one thing that is clearly obvious before you got stun

use one, let them roll it, use another and so on. At some point they let that stun land on them, but most players don't do it and they just waste their stamina for rolling.

But what's the point? If you're spamming Cage, you're not setting up damage.

Starve them of their stamina and then you have free window when you can just kill them while they are waiting for stamina to CC break

Also its cheaper than keep spamming skills in hope some can get through roll dodge spam. With rune cage you just cast it few times and then bomb them while they are unable to do anything.

I can confirm that this works sometimes, and it's really funny when it happens. The problem with this method is that good players wise up to it fast.

That is why I always take it like a good girl. I always let rune cage hit me even if dodging it could give me a chance at better escape. It is not worth to riks being spammed at with something inevitable. Better to take it.

Lord-Otto

Dracane wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The cast time just makes it so undesirable for a spammable. I can't see it beating out FP or ele weapon, even if it can proc itself.

But isn't the cast time short enough to fit, dizzy like, in the gcd?

For PVP maybe. I could see myself fitting this into a PVP build, dropping FP as a spammable and slotting rune cage again with the added bar slot. Unfortunately, using it as a spammable will make you weak against DKs with their wings.

But in PVE, that cast time is a DPS loss.

Rune Cage.
(o_ô)

You could be surprised how good that skill is for destroying stamina pools.
Because of that one thing that is clearly obvious before you got stun

use one, let them roll it, use another and so on. At some point they let that stun land on them, but most players don't do it and they just waste their stamina for rolling.

But what's the point? If you're spamming Cage, you're not setting up damage.

Starve them of their stamina and then you have free window when you can just kill them while they are waiting for stamina to CC break

Also its cheaper than keep spamming skills in hope some can get through roll dodge spam. With rune cage you just cast it few times and then bomb them while they are unable to do anything.

I can confirm that this works sometimes, and it's really funny when it happens. The problem with this method is that good players wise up to it fast.

That is why I always take it like a good girl. I always let rune cage hit me even if dodging it could give me a chance at better escape. It is not worth to riks being spammed at with something inevitable. Better to take it.

It's when your health is low or your shields are down that evading a CC saves your life. Rune Cage is zero threat when Fear could cost your life.

PapaWeeb

Anyron wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The cast time just makes it so undesirable for a spammable. I can't see it beating out FP or ele weapon, even if it can proc itself.

But isn't the cast time short enough to fit, dizzy like, in the gcd?

For PVP maybe. I could see myself fitting this into a PVP build, dropping FP as a spammable and slotting rune cage again with the added bar slot. Unfortunately, using it as a spammable will make you weak against DKs with their wings.

But in PVE, that cast time is a DPS loss.

Rune Cage.
(o_ô)

You could be surprised how good that skill is for destroying stamina pools.
Because of that one thing that is clearly obvious before you got stun

use one, let them roll it, use another and so on. At some point they let that stun land on them, but most players don't do it and they just waste their stamina for rolling.

+1 for rune cage, unblockable 41m stun that melts stamina

PapaWeeb

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

Crystal Weapon is just ugly stepbrother of Crushing Weapon from Psijic Order Skills, it has less healing, less utility, its really need Crystal Blast style AoE explosion around target on cast chance like Crystal Shards or on certain number of light attacks like Relentless Focus\Bound Armaments.

It deals more damage than Crushing Weapon. And look at your dark magic passives, it will heal you too.

ThePedge

caperon wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Instant Proc is equal, if not better than live. It can still be used as a mini game burst skill to the same effect.

• +33% damage changed to +66% damage for instant proc, this is where the >1% dmg stated comes from.
• -50% cost for instant proc remains the same.
• -10% cost for 3s added to base skill

Its not exactly like that, the proc has lost like 4% dmg. It's not a big deal and having it proc from itself and the cost reduction overweights it IMO.

Live server: Proc dmg = X*1.33
PTS: Proc Dmg = X*0.77*1.66 = X*1.28

With this and the 300 mag after the curse i think sorc PVE sustain can be the best in years actually.

Live = X * 1.33 = 1.33X
PTS = X * 0.79 * 1.66 = 1.3114X

(1.3114 / 1.33) * 100 = 98.6%

Crystal frags proc lost 1.4% damage and the forum sorcs go wild.

katorga

If they were going to cut and paste an animation for Crystal Weapon, why couldn't it have been the sublimely cancellable animation from Surprise Attack?

I rarely use Crushing because it "feels" bad to weave. There is just something off about it.

Wolf81

Well Zos' long term adjustments and changing of equation checks to be more server side than client will eventually negate animation canceling all together. I'm pretty sure that is intentional.