Why such a heavy nerf to crystal fragments? [A ray of light brought relief]

Dracane

After broad initial confusion about the true meaning of the crystal shard changes, I decided to change this OP to include the current facts.

- The damage of the crystal fragment proc is indeed less than 1% weaker than it is on live.

- Crystal Fragments can not proc off themselves, contrary to what the patchnotes state. Even on live, crystal shard hardcasts can proc fragments and continue to do so on the pts.

- Crystal Fragments proc do also not produce the 10% cost reduction that crystal weapons and normal crystal shards do.

- Even though the 0.8 casttime would make one believe it is just as fast as normal spammable, in practice this does not seem to be the case. Using elemental weapons still results in more hits per minute and also significantly more dps thanks to status effects, spell orbs and more light attacks. Crystal fragments does by no means replace other common magicka spammable and will result in a dps loss as of now.

- Crystal Shard hard casting is still clunky and the afterdelay which was added to fix the long term issue of unwanted hardcasts after a proc, makes it slow and again, very clunky. Clunkier than on live as far as I am concerned.

- Crystal Shard's minimum travel time remains in place.


A few suggestions from me and others:

-Crystal Shards could lose their casttime and have their damage brough to the level of other ranged spammables to turn them into a proper spammable with respect to crystal fragments and updating its damage bonus correctly to keep its current burst potential and not become a dps loss for pve dps.

-Crystal Fragments procs should as well be able to have a chance to create another crystal fragments proc as stated in the patchnotes.

-Crystal Fragments procs should also grant the 10% cost reduction like crystal weapons and crystal shards do to not leave it as an outcast.

-For pvp, it could be considered to remove its minimum travel time. But this also goes for merciless resolve and some other ranged attacks.

-Crystal hardcasts and potentially fragment procs could maintain a small percentage of splash damage to not completely eradicate the ghost of the old crystal blast. I would limit this to hardcasts only, however. This, if no other changes to crystal hardcasts is made, could at least make it interesting as an aoe spammable even if not useful as a single target spammable.

Onefrkncrzypope

Cause Stam frags lmao

Glantir

Rip

but no more sustain issues lol...

bluebird

Yeah... and they nerfed Sorc Pet stat scaling so you need more stats now to make them as effective as they were before... it's not like Magplars are OP or anything, no, no, please nerf signature Sorc spells instead!

wastelandexplorer1

While the nerf to frag was too much it was complete justified same with pets they were over tuned I’ve mained sorc for 5 years and that pet changes is somthing I can get behind and frag while it will retain a nerf prolly won’t be that bad [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting/Rude Comment]

katorga

bluebird wrote: »

Yeah... and they nerfed Sorc Pet stat scaling so you need more stats now to make them as effective as they were before... it's not like Magplars are OP or anything, no, no, please nerf signature Sorc spells instead!

Dunno. If pets finally scale from dmg/magicka like other skills, won't that make them more effective with more builds?

Not sure why the clanfear got its self heal nerfed, lol.

I think Templars may have gotten shafted with burning light, and I think sweeps got its heal nerfed. Hard to tell from the wording.

Lord-Otto

@Oreyn_Bearclaw
Any thoughts you wanna share?
(0w0)

iCaliban

Why nerf frags when it wasnt close to overperforming compared to dizzy and stam aoe burst skills? Nonesense. Fury spam in bgs? Yeah. Frags? Gtfo

Dracane

wastelandexplorer1 wrote: »

While the nerf to frag was too much it was complete justified same with pets they were over tuned I’ve mained sorc for 5 years and that pet changes is somthing I can get behind and frag while it will retain a nerf prolly won’t be that bad [snip]

Its damage has been cut by almost a quarter! That is very significant!
Not only will it once again be laughable in pvp, but be another devastating hit to non-pet Sorcerer pve dps. Non-pet Sorcerer already are a peasant race that get nothing good and are far behind others. This will likely steal another 2k dps from them.

This should not have happened in my opinion. Crystal Fragments have to be buffed to compensate for it. If they want even numbers, that reduce the extra damage to 30% down from 33%. But not from 33% to essentially 11% of what it used to be.

wastelandexplorer1

Dracane wrote: »

wastelandexplorer1 wrote: »

While the nerf to frag was too much it was complete justified same with pets they were over tuned I’ve mained sorc for 5 years and that pet changes is somthing I can get behind and frag while it will retain a nerf prolly won’t be that bad [snip]

Its damage has been cut by almost a quarter! That is very significant!
Not only will it once again be laughable in pvp, but be another devastating hit to non-pet Sorcerer pve dps. Non-pet Sorcerer already are a peasant race that get nothing good and are far behind others. This will likely steal another 2k dps from them.

This should not have happened in my opinion. Crystal Fragments have to be buffed to compensate for it. If they want even numbers, that reduce the extra damage to 30% down from 33%. But not from 33% to essentially 11% of what it used to be.

U clearly didn’t read what I said go back and read it before u reply

Ragnaroek93

Kinda weird to touch magsorc but leave stamden and stamcro as they are tbh...

colossalvoids

[snip]r, but c-frag change seems pretty unnecessary to say the least.

[Edited to remove Offensive Content]

Chilly-McFreeze

Dracane wrote: »

Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs? I sincerely hope that Stamina Sorcerers and their new shiny spammable are not to blame for this. You have finally done it and taken away from magicka sorcerers with your conquest to get more stamina abilities....

Why should that be the reason? It's like a total different skill and it's very common to have different damage levels for different morphs. This is just you being salty about having to hand an underperforming morph to your mains sister spec.

Nontheless, the nerf is stupid and the alibi buff (cast time) is stupid too. At the very least they should combine former morphs. It should work like blast (stun, aoe, nerfed dmg) if unprocced and like frag (single target, no stun) when procced + now much higher extra proc dmg.

Yet another nerf that reinforces the dartboard meme.

Dracane

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Kinda weird to touch magsorc but leave stamden and stamcro as they are tbh...

My partner's shalks already hit as hard or harder than my fragments in some situations (mainly because of all the %s from piercing cold and advances species) and blastbone obviously is on another level.

But of course, nerf that one ability that is single target, reflectable and dodgeable.
I am absolutely certain this is to path the way for the supreme stamina specs that now receive their elemental weapons on steroids.

susmitds

Skill got ZOSed.

Dracane

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs? I sincerely hope that Stamina Sorcerers and their new shiny spammable are not to blame for this. You have finally done it and taken away from magicka sorcerers with your conquest to get more stamina abilities....

Why should that be the reason? It's like a total different skill and it's very common to have different damage levels for different morphs. This is just you being salty about having to hand an underperforming morph to your mains sister spec.

Nontheless, the nerf is stupid and the alibi buff (cast time) is stupid too. At the very least they should combine former morphs. It should work like blast (stun, aoe, nerfed dmg) if unprocced and like frag (single target, no stun) when procced + now much higher extra proc dmg.

Yet another nerf that reinforces the dartboard meme.

Because the base damage of crystal shard had to be be reduced so that the damage of the stamina morph is correct.

Chilly-McFreeze

Dracane wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Why is Sorcerer always the only class that receives class shattering nerfs? I sincerely hope that Stamina Sorcerers and their new shiny spammable are not to blame for this. You have finally done it and taken away from magicka sorcerers with your conquest to get more stamina abilities....

Why should that be the reason? It's like a total different skill and it's very common to have different damage levels for different morphs. This is just you being salty about having to hand an underperforming morph to your mains sister spec.

Nontheless, the nerf is stupid and the alibi buff (cast time) is stupid too. At the very least they should combine former morphs. It should work like blast (stun, aoe, nerfed dmg) if unprocced and like frag (single target, no stun) when procced + now much higher extra proc dmg.

Yet another nerf that reinforces the dartboard meme.

Because the base damage of crystal shard had to be be reduced so that the damage of the stamina morph is correct.

And the reason they then don't buff up the mag morph is what exactly? Like they do with Flurry, Rendings, Poison Injection etc.

idk

The reduction in damage is probably due to the reduction of cast time which was pretty much not needed for the one morph.

Edit: This is a great case for why Zos should post their reasoning for changes when making such significant adjustments.

West93

Maybe because cyrodiil is full *** load of magsorcs for a reason because healing nerf took less hit to them, also abusing elemental weapon overload health desync.

Dracane

idk wrote: »

The reduction in damage is probably due to the reduction of cast time which was pretty much not needed for the one morph.

Edit: This is a great case for why Zos should post their reasoning for changes when making such significant adjustments.

Which would be fine when it comes to the base ability. Reducing its cast time, albeit pointless, can justify this reducting. But none of this has to do with crystal fragments. So the solution should clearly be to increase the % bonus of the proc to keep it roughly at the same level as on live.

iCaliban

wastelandexplorer1 wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

wastelandexplorer1 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

wastelandexplorer1 wrote: »

While the nerf to frag was too much it was complete justified same with pets they were over tuned I’ve mained sorc for 5 years and that pet changes is somthing I can get behind and frag while it will retain a nerf prolly won’t be that bad now stop whining they don’t listen to this *** anyway

Its damage has been cut by almost a quarter! That is very significant!
Not only will it once again be laughable in pvp, but be another devastating hit to non-pet Sorcerer pve dps. Non-pet Sorcerer already are a peasant race that get nothing good and are far behind others. This will likely steal another 2k dps from them.

This should not have happened in my opinion. Crystal Fragments have to be buffed to compensate for it. If they want even numbers, that reduce the extra damage to 30% down from 33%. But not from 33% to essentially 11% of what it used to be.

U clearly didn’t read what I said go back and read it before u reply

Imagine the bad faith required to pretend to be a mag sorc main and call for a nerf to frags. The only skill in the toolkit that has counterplay. Ridiculous

Na I just don’t whine like a 3 year old who doesn’t get his/her way sorc frag needed a da,ge nerf but more along the line of reducing the proc to 20-25% grow up

Thats some good faith counterpoints. Well said. I really do believe you are a sorc main now.

Fyi, resorting to personal attacks when people point out your obvious lies is a bit of a giveaway

Anyron

West93 wrote: »

Maybe because cyrodiil is full *** load of magsorcs for a reason because healing nerf took less hit to them, also abusing elemental weapon overload health desync.

Wait, so, your fix for "abusing elemental weapon overloard health desync" sorcs is to nerf Crystal Fragments damage?

Anyone else has problem to see connection here?

iCaliban

Anyron wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

Maybe because cyrodiil is full *** load of magsorcs for a reason because healing nerf took less hit to them, also abusing elemental weapon overload health desync.

Wait, so, your fix for "abusing elemental weapon overloard health desync" sorcs is to nerf Crystal Fragments damage?

Anyone else has problem to see connection here?

Ol ele weave isnt a desync. Its just a lot of damage. Players cry desync when they dont understand why it hurts so much

wastelandexplorer1

iCaliban wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

Maybe because cyrodiil is full *** load of magsorcs for a reason because healing nerf took less hit to them, also abusing elemental weapon overload health desync.

Wait, so, your fix for "abusing elemental weapon overloard health desync" sorcs is to nerf Crystal Fragments damage?

Anyone else has problem to see connection here?

Ol ele weave isnt a desync. Its just a lot of damage. Players cry desync when they dont understand why it hurts so much

No it’s a dysenc lol it glitches your health bar so it’s not what it actually is

Dracane

iCaliban wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

Maybe because cyrodiil is full *** load of magsorcs for a reason because healing nerf took less hit to them, also abusing elemental weapon overload health desync.

Wait, so, your fix for "abusing elemental weapon overloard health desync" sorcs is to nerf Crystal Fragments damage?

Anyone else has problem to see connection here?

Ol ele weave isnt a desync. Its just a lot of damage. Players cry desync when they dont understand why it hurts so much

Indeed. There really is no desync. I am using elemental weapons and overload since some time and it always removes the amount of health I would expect based on the damage numbers. I am someone who studies damage reports often after fights and it was always legit. I think people mistake lags for desyncs.

However, this really does not much have to do with the problem at hand.
I would rather talk about having the lost damage added back to the crystal fragments proc.

JinMori

It can proc off itself.

Chilly-McFreeze

JinMori wrote: »

It can proc off itself.

And that justifies taking away a fifth of it's strength?

robpr

Hold your pitchforks and torches for now. Frags can proc of themselves, so potentially you can cast it twice sometimes without wasting magicka using any other magicka ability. So virtually the proc chance is increased.

WrathOfInnos

Wait, I thought they said the Crystal Frag proc Damage was within 1%. Are you all complaining about the hard cast damage?

iCaliban

robpr wrote: »

Hold your pitchforks and torches for now. Frags can proc of themselves, so potentially you can cast it twice sometimes without wasting magicka using any other magicka ability. So virtually the proc chance is increased.

Eso is all about burst. A 20% cut to your burst isnt made up for by a RNG chance to maybe proc another.

6k wd stam builds will eat that frag, heal through it easily via a vigor tick or 2. Its the same reason some classes are in bad shape.

Dracane

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wait, I thought they said the Crystal Frag proc Damage was within 1%. Are you all complaining about the hard cast damage?

Well, this is merely a dwindling hope.

As I understand it right now: Crystal Shard is reduced by 21%. Crystal fragments proc has been reduced from 33% to 32%. So a 22% nerf for the final fragments compared to live.

What I hope: Crystal Shards reduced by 21%. The Proc changed from 33% to 53% to compensate.
The Patchnotes are very unprecise. I lean towards the first scenario.