PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Mayrael

Imagine that magplar dares to say that magblades have better healing than them xDDD OMG, anything but this? Please, lets try to stay serious.

Qbiken

Mayrael wrote: »

Imagine that magplar dares to say that magblades have better healing than them xDDD OMG, anything but this? Please, lets try to stay serious.

Never say they did. They do have an easier time in open world trying to survive however with shade and cloak (especially shade if used properly. Cloak can be a bit unreliable some times tho ngl) compared to magplar.

My response was to the claims that magplar can easily turtle up on their back bar with sword & board and simply outheal incoming damage by block spamming breath/honor the dead, which hasn't been a thing for quite some time. In nocp it doesn't exists .

Firstmep

Qbiken wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Imagine that magplar dares to say that magblades have better healing than them xDDD OMG, anything but this? Please, lets try to stay serious.

Never say they did. They do have an easier time in open world trying to survive however with shade and cloak (especially shade if used properly. Cloak can be a bit unreliable some times tho ngl) compared to magplar.

My response was to the claims that magplar can easily turtle up on their back bar with sword & board and simply outheal incoming damage by block spamming breath/honor the dead, which hasn't been a thing for quite some time. In nocp it doesn't exists .

In cp you can throw on malubeth and all the small hots from eclipse/ritual/backlash will keep you up, and ofc you turtle pretty hard with a few sturdy pieces, but thats really only an option beacuse of cp cost reduction to blocking, extra resources, healing cp etc. And even then, necro/warden can do it way better, and even dk has solid healing power in cp.

Anyway you can build to be a turtle in cp on literally every class, but i dont think that should be the metric we measure classes by.

Mayrael

Firstmep wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Imagine that magplar dares to say that magblades have better healing than them xDDD OMG, anything but this? Please, lets try to stay serious.

Never say they did. They do have an easier time in open world trying to survive however with shade and cloak (especially shade if used properly. Cloak can be a bit unreliable some times tho ngl) compared to magplar.

My response was to the claims that magplar can easily turtle up on their back bar with sword & board and simply outheal incoming damage by block spamming breath/honor the dead, which hasn't been a thing for quite some time. In nocp it doesn't exists .

In cp you can throw on malubeth and all the small hots from eclipse/ritual/backlash will keep you up, and ofc you turtle pretty hard with a few sturdy pieces, but thats really only an option beacuse of cp cost reduction to blocking, extra resources, healing cp etc. And even then, necro/warden can do it way better, and even dk has solid healing power in cp.

Anyway you can build to be a turtle in cp on literally every class, but i dont think that should be the metric we measure classes by.

Agree totally, but to build magblade tanky and having some damage left you have to make a lot of sacrifices and have clever build, you have to relay on sets not skills. The best and the only better skill that NBs have is Shadow Image, this combined with Temporal Guard can save a day but, that's all. All classes can be even better at evading than magblades, I found it that outrunning my opponents is easier then cloaking, because anyone having at least basic knowledge about PvP will use counters while there is no real counter to being fast, though new proc meta on stampede can change this a bit because everyone will run gap closers now but still it can be countered pretty easily especially on a class that can turn off all proc based dots with one skill.

Just use a bit of LoS and you will be good. Swift is going to be buffed next patch, just saying. 40% sprint, 30% major expedition, 21 % swift. Trust me if you plan to 1vX this will make your experience so much better. Speed and LoS is the key.

Once again I repeat, just because there are few successful magblades out there it doesn't mean class is in a good shape. Learning curve, low floor, high depency on sets not skills (caluurion, troll king, vicious death, zaan), ceiling a bit lower than on most Stam classes makes magblade really not attractive class.

Firstmep

Mayrael wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Imagine that magplar dares to say that magblades have better healing than them xDDD OMG, anything but this? Please, lets try to stay serious.

Never say they did. They do have an easier time in open world trying to survive however with shade and cloak (especially shade if used properly. Cloak can be a bit unreliable some times tho ngl) compared to magplar.

My response was to the claims that magplar can easily turtle up on their back bar with sword & board and simply outheal incoming damage by block spamming breath/honor the dead, which hasn't been a thing for quite some time. In nocp it doesn't exists .

In cp you can throw on malubeth and all the small hots from eclipse/ritual/backlash will keep you up, and ofc you turtle pretty hard with a few sturdy pieces, but thats really only an option beacuse of cp cost reduction to blocking, extra resources, healing cp etc. And even then, necro/warden can do it way better, and even dk has solid healing power in cp.

Anyway you can build to be a turtle in cp on literally every class, but i dont think that should be the metric we measure classes by.

Agree totally, but to build magblade tanky and having some damage left you have to make a lot of sacrifices and have clever build, you have to relay on sets not skills. The best and the only better skill that NBs have is Shadow Image, this combined with Temporal Guard can save a day but, that's all. All classes can be even better at evading than magblades, I found it that outrunning my opponents is easier then cloaking, because anyone having at least basic knowledge about PvP will use counters while there is no real counter to being fast, though new proc meta on stampede can change this a bit because everyone will run gap closers now but still it can be countered pretty easily especially on a class that can turn off all proc based dots with one skill.

Just use a bit of LoS and you will be good. Swift is going to be buffed next patch, just saying. 40% sprint, 30% major expedition, 21 % swift. Trust me if you plan to 1vX this will make your experience so much better. Speed and LoS is the key.

Once again I repeat, just because there are few successful magblades out there it doesn't mean class is in a good shape. Learning curve, low floor, high depency on sets not skills (caluurion, troll king, vicious death, zaan), ceiling a bit lower than on most Stam classes makes magblade really not attractive class.

I am not saying that magblade is objectively better than magplar, but a lot people seem to think that templar still can rip out 10-15k BOLs on demand, which, unless you specifically build for it( wich ofc means giving up damage), not gonna happen.
ANd next patch they are heavily pruning templar offensive capabilities, at least from class skills.
Im sure ill be able to find some combination of op procs that will allow me to mow ppl down just as well as now, but i dont thats a good indicative for what a good class is.
Anyway, i would just like them to give us an ability that actually allows templar to get off the backbar when pressure.
The current living dark is simply not that, its very expensive, the duration is short,and the proc condition with how low the heal is just not cutting it.
In all fairness i have asked again and again to make Rapid Regeneration from resto staff a self heal only, and maybe even change healing ward, OR allow us to target only ourselves with heals, maybe via a keybind or menu option.
Kinda like how you can press( i think by default) ALT in wow to target yourself with X ability.

osthyvel

New Moon Acolyte: Reduced the Weapon and Spell Damage granted from this set’s 5 piece bonus to 401, down from 481. This was done to make up for the fact that the resource cost increase penalty can be easily alleviated in group settings by having allies supply you with sets or synergies.

Why are you developers hell bent on ruining solo play? Everything you've done since the implementation of Proximity Detonation (which when announced you said was being put into the game to bust zergs) has actually buffed zergs (which just ended up running Proxy Det in their large groups).

You say you want to improve system performance by breaking up zergs and spreading out players in Cyrodiil but in the next breath you nerf 1vX by doing *** like this with the reasoning that everyone is in a large group. We're not.

Firstmep

As expected, literally 0 bones thrown to templar amid the brutal nerfs it has received during the first pts.

Literally pages worth of feedback out there, @ZOS_BrianWheeler please look that the feedback and act accordingly.

Jodynn

It feels like providing feedback isn't providing any results.

Firstmep

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

It feels like providing feedback isn't providing any results.

I just dont know whats the point of pts.

They dont fix a lot of the bugs reported.
They dont listen to the majority of the feedback.

At this point just remove pts.

Koubo

Firstmep wrote: »

As expected, literally 0 bones thrown to templar amid the brutal nerfs it has received during the first pts.

Literally pages worth of feedback out there, @ZOS_BrianWheeler please look that the feedback and act accordingly.

too much desapointment. It's really sad
3.5 month, playing a class for .... a bench?
Because between the nerf and the Magicka meta, it will be hard to find a group to play and progress with. It's allready hard

rrimöykk

No changes to DK. Excellent. I do not want to quit the game but you literally force me to.

West93

Koubo wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

As expected, literally 0 bones thrown to templar amid the brutal nerfs it has received during the first pts.

Literally pages worth of feedback out there, @ZOS_BrianWheeler please look that the feedback and act accordingly.

too much desapointment. It's really sad
3.5 month, playing a class for .... a bench?
Because between the nerf and the Magicka meta, it will be hard to find a group to play and progress with. It's allready hard

Playing a templar 4 years and these nerfs seems even worse than major mending taken away.

Still no burning light adjustment? Stamina templar none healing given? How will you proc burning light if during AOE test you can't even use jabs as a spammable?

Firstmep

West93 wrote: »

Koubo wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

As expected, literally 0 bones thrown to templar amid the brutal nerfs it has received during the first pts.

Literally pages worth of feedback out there, @ZOS_BrianWheeler please look that the feedback and act accordingly.

too much desapointment. It's really sad
3.5 month, playing a class for .... a bench?
Because between the nerf and the Magicka meta, it will be hard to find a group to play and progress with. It's allready hard

Playing a templar 4 years and these nerfs seems even worse than major mending taken away.

Still no burning light adjustment? Stamina templar none healing given? How will you proc burning light if during AOE test you can't even use jabs as a spammable?

You wont, i wont be playing stamplar during the test. Ill probably just run a ranged templar with full on proctato sets.

Unless they give us something ill shelve my stamplar for a while.

I know quite a few to stamplars that already planning on rerolling in light of these nerfs.

West93

I will pay for a class change token. @ZOS

Koubo

Firstmep wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

Koubo wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

As expected, literally 0 bones thrown to templar amid the brutal nerfs it has received during the first pts.

Literally pages worth of feedback out there, @ZOS_BrianWheeler please look that the feedback and act accordingly.

too much desapointment. It's really sad
3.5 month, playing a class for .... a bench?
Because between the nerf and the Magicka meta, it will be hard to find a group to play and progress with. It's allready hard

Playing a templar 4 years and these nerfs seems even worse than major mending taken away.

Still no burning light adjustment? Stamina templar none healing given? How will you proc burning light if during AOE test you can't even use jabs as a spammable?

You wont, i wont be playing stamplar during the test. Ill probably just run a ranged templar with full on proctato sets.

Unless they give us something ill shelve my stamplar for a while.

I know quite a few to stamplars that already planning on rerolling in light of these nerfs.

I wish i could do that, but with my time spent on the game it's like starting over nothing. I dont think i'll

Tommy_The_Gun

I freaking Nightblade's Executioner passive change. It look so much better now. Love it ! ! !

VoidCommander

The burning light passive rework is almost identical to how it is in game with one minor exception. Blazing spear is unable to get 3 burning light procs by itself. Puncturing sweeps and crescent sweep are both able to fulfill their 4 damage ticks to proc burning light all by themselves. However, blazing spear only has 11 ticks of damage. On live, those 3 ticks after the first 8 have a 75% chance to proc burning light, but with the new rework this is impossible. Making up the last tick of damage with other abilities is possible, but as I have already mentioned, the other dps abilities that templars use are already "self-sufficient" when it comes to procing burning light passives. The only other way for a templar to "fill the gap" in this case would to use either of the 2 stun abilities. In pvp sure this might make sense, but no templar out there is using toppling charge to maximize their damage output. I would recommend solving this problem by splitting the up-front damage of blazing spear into two parts, one at the beginning and a small explosion at the end. You can reduce the overall total damage from this to compensate for the fact that blazing spear only ever had a 75% chance to proc in the last 3 ticks, whereas in this new version it would always proc that third time.

WrathOfInnos

VoidCommander wrote: »

The burning light passive rework is almost identical to how it is in game with one minor exception. Blazing spear is unable to get 3 burning light procs by itself. Puncturing sweeps and crescent sweep are both able to fulfill their 4 damage ticks to proc burning light all by themselves. However, blazing spear only has 11 ticks of damage. On live, those 3 ticks after the first 8 have a 75% chance to proc burning light, but with the new rework this is impossible. Making up the last tick of damage with other abilities is possible, but as I have already mentioned, the other dps abilities that templars use are already "self-sufficient" when it comes to procing burning light passives. The only other way for a templar to "fill the gap" in this case would to use either of the 2 stun abilities. In pvp sure this might make sense, but no templar out there is using toppling charge to maximize their damage output. I would recommend solving this problem by splitting the up-front damage of blazing spear into two parts, one at the beginning and a small explosion at the end. You can reduce the overall total damage from this to compensate for the fact that blazing spear only ever had a 75% chance to proc in the last 3 ticks, whereas in this new version it would always proc that third time.

I was doing some testing of this on PTS, and as long as you don’t let Blazing Spear fall off for more than 1s you won’t lose the 3/4 progress and it will proc Burning Light on the first tick of the next cast.

However, I’m aware that this is not always possible with mechanics and movement. One possible solution would be to increase the Blazing Spear damage ticks to 12 total. This would be 11 DoT ticks + 1 direct initial tick, adding a zero tick of the DoT. Basically it would operate like Unstable Wall in reverse, since Wall is also a 10s AoE with 11 DoT ticks + 1 direct tick (simultaneous with the 11th DoT tick at 10s). This would ensure 3 Burning Light procs per cast as long as the enemy stayed in the AoE.

Andraste

Ritual of retribution

I'm not a fan of removing healing from this, as I think the ability to deal a bit of damage and a bit of healing make it quite interesting. Reducing it to yet another large aoe makes it feel entirely redundant with the large number of other aoe damage over time abilities I already have slotted on my templar's bar: blazing spears, solar barrage, wall of elements, necrotic orb, etc.

Dealing damage and healing simultaneously feels like it is perfect for the class fantasy, and ritual has utility for tanks (soft taunt/support), dps, and healers who prefer to be more offensive. I don't mind if it costs a lot of magicka, or if the damage and healing is tuned down a bit to make it less ideal for a specific purpose (maximizing healing or maximizing dps). I already felt like it was questionable while dpsing, but enjoyed being able to provide the group utility. For the sake of having a good bit of support while dpsing or tanking, I'd like to see this change reverted and numbers tweaked if necessary.

Jodynn

Testing MagDK more on PTS and sustain is terrible with less DPS due to this and building for sustain results in even less DPS.

Heavy attacks result in a big loss of DPS and slotting spell symmetry is only slightly better and not nearly as viable in solo content.

There are several ways of helping sustain for magDK but the most viable and less ground breaking changes are as follows:

1.)Make whip a better spammable.
- Molten whip costs less and more damage based on stacks of Seething Fury.
- Increase stacks to 5.
- Each stack will increase damage done with whip by 10% and cost less by 10%.
- Molten whip will give a stack unless at max then it does 100% more damage on live.

2.) Make Earthern Heart give ultimate on cast or when dealing damage so that 2/3 of the time the passive isn't wasted. ( Eruption lasts 18 seconds and it can proc every 6 )

3.) Reduce cost of fire skills for world of ruin as well as fire AoE damage, and give posion AoE damage to stamDK.

These three changes would begin to mend the issues of playing magDK although there still needs much more work such as many passives and skills evaluated and certain sets that should support more.

WrathOfInnos

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO Making Molten Whip casts generate Seething Fury stacks is a great idea. It would be easy to make the proc that consumes them happen only when you reach max stacks. This would be consistent with the change to Crystal Fragments as well, allowing low damage casts to generate a high damage burst, just with Whip it would be after a specified number of casts instead of RNG based.

It always bothered me that the Seething Fury buff only lasted while recasting DoTs, then was consumed on the first spammable, giving no extra Spell Damage for the next 10 or more spammables until DoTs needed to be refreshed.

Atherakhia

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO Making Molten Whip casts generate Seething Fury stacks is a great idea. It would be easy to make the proc that consumes them happen only when you reach max stacks. This would be consistent with the change to Crystal Fragments as well, allowing low damage casts to generate a high damage burst, just with Whip it would be after a specified number of casts instead of RNG based.

It always bothered me that the Seething Fury buff only lasted while recasting DoTs, then was consumed on the first spammable, giving no extra Spell Damage for the next 10 or more spammables until DoTs needed to be refreshed.

I think you're going to find a lot of pushback allowing Whip to trigger its own stacks. A better solution would be to simply make burning also apply a stack. Similarly for NBs and Grim Focus, they should probably make crits also apply a stack.

Jodynn

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO Making Molten Whip casts generate Seething Fury stacks is a great idea. It would be easy to make the proc that consumes them happen only when you reach max stacks. This would be consistent with the change to Crystal Fragments as well, allowing low damage casts to generate a high damage burst, just with Whip it would be after a specified number of casts instead of RNG based.

It always bothered me that the Seething Fury buff only lasted while recasting DoTs, then was consumed on the first spammable, giving no extra Spell Damage for the next 10 or more spammables until DoTs needed to be refreshed.

Especially since flames of oblivion is 15 seconds and embers/engulfing is 14 ( 19 for elf bane , however I rather dislike elf bane ) and stacking is rather annoying and you generally use 2 stacks in most cases not to mention this would make it act much more like the spam it is.

Atherakhia wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@brandoncoffmannub18_ESO Making Molten Whip casts generate Seething Fury stacks is a great idea. It would be easy to make the proc that consumes them happen only when you reach max stacks. This would be consistent with the change to Crystal Fragments as well, allowing low damage casts to generate a high damage burst, just with Whip it would be after a specified number of casts instead of RNG based.

It always bothered me that the Seething Fury buff only lasted while recasting DoTs, then was consumed on the first spammable, giving no extra Spell Damage for the next 10 or more spammables until DoTs needed to be refreshed.

I think you're going to find a lot of pushback allowing Whip to trigger its own stacks. A better solution would be to simply make burning also apply a stack. Similarly for NBs and Grim Focus, they should probably make crits also apply a stack.

I disagree, burning or crit would cause a grave imbalance you'd almost always have stacks up and it would be overpowered, use whip to generate stacks unless final proc you are working towards it and acting sanely.

Vermintide

No wonder Zenimax doesn't implement good changes. Listen to yourselves. All I'm hearing here is BAAAWWWWWW

NERF X CLASS

MY CLASS NEEDS A 20K BURST HEAL

NERF ZERGS

NERF SOLO PLAY

Get it together and provide constructive feedback, or else don't be surprised when they totally disregard everything that's been said in this thread. I know I would if I was ZOS.

katorga

All of this discussion is pointless until we see how badly each class is wrecked by the AOE nerfs.

Strider__Roshin

Currently Soul Harvest is stronger for stamblades than incap in PvP, and in PvE the stun from incap is irrelevant. I would suggest giving incap major defile back. You can get rid of the knock down; it's not needed and is no longer powerful due to the cast time.

Strider__Roshin

Mass Hysteria is still the weaker alternative to Turn Evil. May I suggest adding minor maim back? Or perhaps give it a root?

Ambush is also weaker than its magicka counterpart, and teleport strike as a whole is worse than both morphs of crit rush.

With the mitigation removed from grim focus, the non stealth play style of the Nightblade is even less viable and the class has become even more pigeonholed. May I suggest giving Dark Cloak back its ability to remove negative effects? And perhaps a 20% healing buff to compensate for the battle spirit change.

JayKwellen

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Ambush is also weaker than its magicka counterpart, and teleport strike as a whole is worse than both morphs of crit rush.

Both morphs also have a hidden cast time, and they are not instant like the tool tip falsely claims.

Said cats time should be removed. Shield charge, crit charge, toppling charge, none of these abilities have as delayed a wind up as teleport strike does.

It's so bad I often end up inadvetantly canceling it. That, or the target moves out of range, up or down an elevation, around a corner, whatever, before it even goes off and then the ability fails.

ZOS claims to like parity between abilities, so they should make ours function instantly just as all the other ones do.

Mayrael

Firstmep wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Imagine that magplar dares to say that magblades have better healing than them xDDD OMG, anything but this? Please, lets try to stay serious.

Never say they did. They do have an easier time in open world trying to survive however with shade and cloak (especially shade if used properly. Cloak can be a bit unreliable some times tho ngl) compared to magplar.

My response was to the claims that magplar can easily turtle up on their back bar with sword & board and simply outheal incoming damage by block spamming breath/honor the dead, which hasn't been a thing for quite some time. In nocp it doesn't exists .

In cp you can throw on malubeth and all the small hots from eclipse/ritual/backlash will keep you up, and ofc you turtle pretty hard with a few sturdy pieces, but thats really only an option beacuse of cp cost reduction to blocking, extra resources, healing cp etc. And even then, necro/warden can do it way better, and even dk has solid healing power in cp.

Anyway you can build to be a turtle in cp on literally every class, but i dont think that should be the metric we measure classes by.

Agree totally, but to build magblade tanky and having some damage left you have to make a lot of sacrifices and have clever build, you have to relay on sets not skills. The best and the only better skill that NBs have is Shadow Image, this combined with Temporal Guard can save a day but, that's all. All classes can be even better at evading than magblades, I found it that outrunning my opponents is easier then cloaking, because anyone having at least basic knowledge about PvP will use counters while there is no real counter to being fast, though new proc meta on stampede can change this a bit because everyone will run gap closers now but still it can be countered pretty easily especially on a class that can turn off all proc based dots with one skill.

Just use a bit of LoS and you will be good. Swift is going to be buffed next patch, just saying. 40% sprint, 30% major expedition, 21 % swift. Trust me if you plan to 1vX this will make your experience so much better. Speed and LoS is the key.

Once again I repeat, just because there are few successful magblades out there it doesn't mean class is in a good shape. Learning curve, low floor, high depency on sets not skills (caluurion, troll king, vicious death, zaan), ceiling a bit lower than on most Stam classes makes magblade really not attractive class.

I am not saying that magblade is objectively better than magplar, but a lot people seem to think that templar still can rip out 10-15k BOLs on demand, which, unless you specifically build for it( wich ofc means giving up damage), not gonna happen.
ANd next patch they are heavily pruning templar offensive capabilities, at least from class skills.
Im sure ill be able to find some combination of op procs that will allow me to mow ppl down just as well as now, but i dont thats a good indicative for what a good class is.
Anyway, i would just like them to give us an ability that actually allows templar to get off the backbar when pressure.
The current living dark is simply not that, its very expensive, the duration is short,and the proc condition with how low the heal is just not cutting it.
In all fairness i have asked again and again to make Rapid Regeneration from resto staff a self heal only, and maybe even change healing ward, OR allow us to target only ourselves with heals, maybe via a keybind or menu option.
Kinda like how you can press( i think by default) ALT in wow to target yourself with X ability.

100% true, I fully support all you have wrote... but as many already mentioned, those AoEs testings are really concerning, if anything from those testings will stay with us for longer templar is dead.

JMadFour

Ya'll are really not going to rethink this Blood for Blood healing debuff?