PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Aznarb

ecru wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Any melee build/class should deal more damage than a ranged build/class, this is due to ease of access for ranged, lack of mobility for melee, and needing to stay in the thick of damage to deal damage.

That would be true if gap closers did not exist.

Gap closers don't permanently close a gap and require sacrificing an ability slot. Melee should always, always have higher single target damage/pressure than ranged, as has been the case in basically every MMO in existence. There has never been a good argument for ranged specs being better in every aspect than melee and there never will be. ESO is pretty imbalanced in this situation but the ability limit and sacrifices that have to be made to slot gap closers just exacerbates the issue. We also see outlier abilities like streak which only make the situation worse, as there is no direct counterplay to streak besides being ranged yourself, due to the fact that it's a gap closer, escape, and unblockable stun, meaning a simple gap closer is not "enough" to fully counter it.

No they shouldn't.

There's no reason a melee should do more damage just because they are melee ranged. As said above, the 'DPS advantage' that melee have in this game comes in the way their sustain works. It's MUCH easier to sustain on stamina in this game because the heavy is shorter and easier to fit into a rotation. As someone else said, there is no real complexity to melee combat in this game. Every class, ranged or melee, all stack in the same pile on a boss's butt anyway. The reason Mag do more damage than stamina atm is because of the various bonuses and synergies available for mag that simply outnumber those available to stam.

There is no reason whatsoever that raw damage should benefit any one class over another.

Melee assumes disconnects unless you are literally parsing on a dummy so yes, melee should do more damage. DPS being the same between every melee and ranged spec puts melee at a disadvantage. If there are no advantages to being in melee range when it comes damage output, there is no reason to play melee, and at that point you might as well just make every ability ranged. This isn't a mag vs stam argument either, as many mag specs/abilities require being in melee range to reach their full potential. This has been a trend in pretty much every game that has ever existed for a reason--because it make sense, and it's fair.

Doesn't make sens at all in a game where everyone play stack anyway.

Atherakhia

As for my comment about stamina sustain and heavy attacks, I was trying to point out that stamina classes have less sustain issues in general and should they heavy attack, it's faster than a ranged class an does more damage.

As for the 'melee disconnect' comment, ranged classes need to move just as much, if not more, than melee classes in this game. It's also highly variable on a fight by fight basis. Why should Stamina get a DPS increase across the board when they'd only be handicapped due to their movement on a select few encounters?

I'm sorry, but this is an MMO. Classes, regardless of spec or stam/mag, need to do comparable damage otherwise you get stacked groups. We already see this today with Mag over Stam; not because their damage is better overall at a class level, but because there is more synergy available for mag over stam in the way of sets, buffs, etc.

This is of course my opinion though.

Cinbri

Burning Light:
Redesign is nice in PvE but as many people already said its terrible in PvP coz it ignore how pvp for templars works. There is 3 main problems: 1. It hard, sometimes even impossible to fully land all 4 ticks of jab. 2. Only way to proc new BL in PvP is using Jabs 3. Its look not that big but still annoying problem - because it apply hidden debuff on enemy - if you fight group of enemies, even two, switching focus fire from one target to another preent you from procing BL on cooldown, as 2nd target wont have 3 stacks of BL because you was hitting and thus applying stacks to 1st target. And if before getting 4th stack you switched target - it might waste.
Judging from how it works in PvE - reduction of proc against group of enemies because it will guaranteee proc on one target, while currently when hitting group of enemies it easily to proc several BL within 1sec even with 25% chance. However single target proc is nearly the same, sometimes better coz Shard+Jabs take like 0.8-0.9millisec to proc guaranteee, that is in long fight can show noticable improved results.
So, here is couple ideas how to address Burning Light inconsistece in PvP without affecting PvE too much:
1.Instead of making BL as 4 stacks-debuff on currently hitted enemy, switch it into self-buff that store stacks of successfull hits with aedric skills and then add BL proc to next hit of aedric skill.
Something familair to stack-bufff of Molag Kena set:

10sec self-buff that store up to 4 stacks. Storing it everytime you dealt damage with aedric skill, after getting 4 stacks its reset and add its damage to next aedric skill damage tick. This way in PvE with Shards/Shards+Jabs it remain same as it store damage same way but in PvP it will be large improvement because it no longer will ahve hiddden stacks on enemy, so you can peacefully swith targets. It will be 10sec global cooldown before stack dissapear so it grant 10sec window before activating aedric skills that can be used for defense/rebuff. It will negate problem that Jabs hard to land because this way it would store stacks of every hit; for example target that mobile that you landed 2 jabs but missed another 2 and spent more then 1sec to jab your target again - stacks wont waste as it will be your own buff that already stored 2 stacks, so next 2 hits of jabs will proc it anyway, even despite 3rd and 4th ticks might be missed again.
It will terribly but still possible to proc with other skills, for example with Javelin, taht you can use every 7sec in 1v1, but due to 10sec gcd it will store stack, so after 28sec it will proc BL.

Light Weaver:
Still need improvement as its powerlevel is average. Bug with ultiamte gain is indeed fixed but bug taht it no longer grant Armor during Rite of Passage channel is still here. So I ask again - either reduce Armor it grant to original values (16500 instead of 33k [buff wasnt mentioned in patchnotes]) and increase hp threshold to 60-65% or dont waste time on fixing it remove this bonus completely and and increase threshold to 65-70-75% or change Armor bonus into smth else.
First of all 33k is already armor cap so your own armor wont be added to it and if you wont be hitted by enemy with rudiculous amount of penetration - this bonus will always be wasted, in pve if someone will use this ult this will be in 100% of cases waste of effect. So decrease to original bonus with bit buff of ulti gain far effective.
Another point is that Rite of Passage is worst defensive ult in game. So, you will inevitably change/buff it into smth taht actually can save caster and it will create problem taht in addition of ult will become strong, it will also have defensive bonus attached to it. It like old Light Champion where major protection was considered too strong. So, strong ult with axuliary effect and another passive ffect that almsot like major protection will be problem. So, just dont create this problem and remove bonus altogether and buff ulti gain threshold instead.
And third point is that this double effect literally just wasting its overall power on 2 bonuses, and it lowering ulti gain mechanic powerlevel too much. 50% hp threshold in pvp is literally means near-death state, and tempalrs are coming out of it with burst heal, so it would result in jsut 2ult after surviving lot of damage. Those 2ults are not even near gamechanger, because of how unreliably you can proc it; and if you constantly below 50%hp - it means you under such heavy pressure that 2/4/6/8ult you can get in such timeframe wont have noticable results. In comparison to Accelerating Growth - it has 40% threshold but it grant strongest healing buff with nice duration. so when warden drop to low hp, its HoTs will proc healing boost taht will allow warden to go out of near-death very easy, due to duration of buff even when he will be far above 40% threshold he still will be able to stay in "safe mode" by boosted healing and keep allies in it as affect healing done.
Powerlevel of 2ult at 50%hp vs major mending for 3sec at 40%hp is not equal for this 10%hp threshold difference. Templar need possbility for ult gain in bit "safier" mode, so he can get more ult when near-death state or just more consistenly proc passive when in serious pressure. Any threshold below original 60%hp threshold is too punishing.
Way to advertise such a low threshold would be removal of Armor bonus and instead getting some other small bonus for example you get minor vitality buff with same proc condition as ult gain, at 50%hp threshold.

Shantu

I've really come to like what's been done with MagSorcs. Having a class spammable is great (hate having to use Force Pulse or Elemental Weapon). I also like how sustainability has been built into using the class skills. Using the special abilities of both pets (revision of the Abate passive) and the new Frags spammable (10% reduced cost on the next non-ultimate skill) allow for much improved and needed sustain. Those who want to sit and spam frags are not going to like the sustain. But if you weave the new spammable between Daedric Prey and pets special abilities, damage is still good and sustain is no longer and issue. Smart re-design resulting in some much needed improvements.

YandereGirlfriend

@Shantu how is it to weave with the new Crystal Blast? Does it play similarly to Wrecking Blow since they are both 0.8 second cast times?

Cinbri

There is 3 pain points of Templars that should have been addressed on this PTS:
1. Updated Light Weaver passive which is only change that addressed "long standing problems", however its powerlevel making passive still pale. It should have been adjusted to maybe passives standarts.
2. Redesigned Burning Light completely ignore PvP aspect of game, drastically reducing its functionality there. It should have been readjusted to achieve equal level of functionality in both PvE/PvP.
3. Puncturing Sweeps fix of heal will drastically reduce magplar survivability. Judging from logic that was used for Veiled Strike that was fixed and in return recieved rulebreaker change in previous Update, Sweeps or other healing-related skills/passives should have been redesigned to "offset the loss" of survivability.

Just a 3 simple points raised this Update but given that PTS almost ended - it seems none of it will be addressed, creating even more pain points for class instead of addressing "emergent concerns" like it was said in preview.

Firstmep

Cinbri wrote: »

There is 3 pain points of Templars that should have been addressed on this PTS:
1. Updated Light Weaver passive which is only change that addressed "long standing problems", however its powerlevel making passive still pale. It should have been adjusted to maybe passives standarts.
2. Redesigned Burning Light completely ignore PvP aspect of game, drastically reducing its functionality there. It should have been readjusted to achieve equal level of functionality in both PvE/PvP.
3. Puncturing Sweeps fix of heal will drastically reduce magplar survivability. Judging from logic that was used for Veiled Strike that was fixed and in return recieved rulebreaker change in previous Update, Sweeps or other healing-related skills/passives should have been redesigned to "offset the loss" of survivability.

Just a 3 simple points raised this Update but given that PTS almost ended - it seems none of it will be addressed, creating even more pain points for class instead of addressing "emergent concerns" like it was said in preview.

Emergent concerns as in bad players unable to move out of jabs.
Meanwhile most top tier templars I know already rerolled to greener pastures.

Firstmep

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Any chance you guys could explain what templars should do now, that you are neutering our offensive toolkit?
The class' defenses have been in shambles for a long time now, like we have a block passive, while our main spammable can't be used while blocking.
Cleansing ritual at this point costs so much, that we simply can't just spam it.
People often rave about how great cleanse is, yeah well it costs nearly 5k Magicka on my stamplar.
And for a class with low self healing, no mobility, very few defensive passives, this skill is nothing more than a stalling tool.
Negative effects are far cheaper to apply, than we can get rid of them anyway.
And its laughable, that the original healing class, with an entire skill line for healing, has such bad self healing.
And there are things like the armor bonus on rune focus, I mean lol, even in duels you'll be hard pressed to stay in it and benefit from it, it might as well don't exist.
Like I said before a lot of top tier templars, as well as a lot of my friends who kained Templar have already rerolled, Beacuse there are just better options out there for pretty much everything.
There's multiple pages worth of issues and inconsistencies with the class, like Backlash still not scaling off of weapon or spell damage, or eclipse being a really really bad healing skill.
Our defensive ultimates are mostly memes at this point, apart from ballgrps using harmony gravity crushes.
Please explain to me what your vision is for this class.
Thank you.

Cinbri

Firstmep wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Any chance you guys could explain what templars should do now, that you are neutering our offensive toolkit?
The class' defenses have been in shambles for a long time now, like we have a block passive, while our main spammable can't be used while blocking.
Cleansing ritual at this point costs so much, that we simply can't just spam it.
People often rave about how great cleanse is, yeah well it costs nearly 5k Magicka on my stamplar.
And for a class with low self healing, no mobility, very few defensive passives, this skill is nothing more than a stalling tool.
Negative effects are far cheaper to apply, than we can get rid of them anyway.
And its laughable, that the original healing class, with an entire skill line for healing, has such bad self healing.
And there are things like the armor bonus on rune focus, I mean lol, even in duels you'll be hard pressed to stay in it and benefit from it, it might as well don't exist.
Like I said before a lot of top tier templars, as well as a lot of my friends who kained Templar have already rerolled, Beacuse there are just better options out there for pretty much everything.
There's multiple pages worth of issues and inconsistencies with the class, like Backlash still not scaling off of weapon or spell damage, or eclipse being a really really bad healing skill.
Our defensive ultimates are mostly memes at this point, apart from ballgrps using harmony gravity crushes.
Please explain to me what your vision is for this class.
Thank you.

If they would make at least 1 morph of Nova to be PBAoE, it would become templar analogue of Permafrost and - puff, templars would suddenly got usefull class expensive offensively-defensive ultimate with group utility, that would be enough to stop templar ults to be just a meme.
And such change would be logical given that original overhaul of Nova in summerset update didnt achieved any goals.

Firstmep

Cinbri wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Any chance you guys could explain what templars should do now, that you are neutering our offensive toolkit?
The class' defenses have been in shambles for a long time now, like we have a block passive, while our main spammable can't be used while blocking.
Cleansing ritual at this point costs so much, that we simply can't just spam it.
People often rave about how great cleanse is, yeah well it costs nearly 5k Magicka on my stamplar.
And for a class with low self healing, no mobility, very few defensive passives, this skill is nothing more than a stalling tool.
Negative effects are far cheaper to apply, than we can get rid of them anyway.
And its laughable, that the original healing class, with an entire skill line for healing, has such bad self healing.
And there are things like the armor bonus on rune focus, I mean lol, even in duels you'll be hard pressed to stay in it and benefit from it, it might as well don't exist.
Like I said before a lot of top tier templars, as well as a lot of my friends who kained Templar have already rerolled, Beacuse there are just better options out there for pretty much everything.
There's multiple pages worth of issues and inconsistencies with the class, like Backlash still not scaling off of weapon or spell damage, or eclipse being a really really bad healing skill.
Our defensive ultimates are mostly memes at this point, apart from ballgrps using harmony gravity crushes.
Please explain to me what your vision is for this class.
Thank you.

If they would make at least 1 morph of Nova to be PBAoE, it would become templar analogue of Permafrost and - puff, templars would suddenly got usefull class expensive offensively-defensive ultimate with group utility, that would be enough to stop templar ults to be just a meme.
And such change would be logical given that original overhaul of Nova in summerset update didnt achieved any goals.

Yeah i made that suggestion before, but like most things just gets ignored.

They could also make living dark a proper self heal skill, removing the snare, reducing the cost and make it heal on all damage not just direct.

Or rework healing ritual to be an actually useful skill for once, like a vigor-like skill, we can use to heal allies and ourselves(HOT).

Or make Backlash scale with our actual stats like weapon and spell damage, reduce its duration and make it aoe explode similar to curse.

Or make radial sweep after pulses tick every 1 second instead of 2, so we have some kind of an aoe pressure skill.

Or make mending passive work for all heals.

Or make sun fire an actually decent dot, compared to the mess it is now, like who even runs vamps bane at this point, when the base skill lasts for 12 seconds.

Or give magplar a proper ranged spammable instead of the abomination that is dark flare.

Whatever, it all falls on deaf ears anyways. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Solinur

Regarding the "Burning Light" Templar passive:

The tooltip of the updated ability does not properly explain the new functionality.

It should somehow explain, that it is not enough to do 4 times damage, but that AoE damage effects only count as 1 damage application regardless of how many targets are getting hit. Is there some hidden cooldown in place? The previous tooltip mentioned such a cooldown!

I'd also like to point out, that this is quite a nerf to that ability in AoE situations, because you will get much less damage from the passive than before in such a setting.
Similarly when enemies manage to evade hits for a second, like when they do a dodge roll, you are starting from the beginning to do 4x damage to proc it.

Since the patch notes speak of a slight rework and not those quite severe changes, I wonder if the developers are aware of them, especially since those changes increase the requirements to benefit from this passive and make it harder for players that are a bit slower. This would also go against the previously stated aim to "lower the ceiling" and/or "raise the floor".

Edit: typo

WAMB0

Yup. Also came for templar.

1. Burning light:
where Jabs and Shards might still be fine on the dummy, in PVP this is gutting templar hard.

BUT 3 out of 5 skills from the line wont benefit from this CLASS PASSIVE anymore, which made up its identify and a large amount of its dmg. Its like Taking burning away from DK. But burning light was already limited to one line.

Jeviling, Charge and Sun shield, they just wont proc it anymore, you dont spam it, its not meant to be spammed, they just loose it.
So you want to get rid of proc chances? I see a few options:
- make it increasing dmg (4 ticks like now for full dmg, and it either progresses linear (1st 25%) or starts low 10% or such) this would still weaken the mentioned 3 skills
- rework the passive completely, let it proc on other templars abilities (Burning light from solar flare sounds convincing) together with a "every 4th tick of a templar ability". Dmg would need to be toned down, but it would open diversity (you hardly can dps without jabs)



2. Ritual. Where are you going with this?
- Ritual of Retribution was already super strong in terms of AOE DPS. Even healers would use this morph because it also gave the better heals. Even in PVP some ppl used it. The only benefit of Extended was that it cleansed more debuffs.
- So to make that more even, you nerfed the healing from ALL of them? This was the templars only useful Heal over Time ability. Templar is supposed to be THE healing class. They're about to become the ones that need a resto to selfheal.
Templar tanks stil dont have a viable mean to heal themselves)
( know about jabs and pury, they wont do much for you in 4man or solo content if you need to move around or dodge)

- The already weak HoT got nerfed even more? So what does that leave it with? some purging on a still expensive skill.
- Compare Wardens betty ( = base major buffs + purges FOR FREE; and sustain on morph) with the templars rune ( = base morph major buff, some additional resistances under a HARSH condiditon, on morph sustain on a skill that costs as much as it recovers in 4-5 secnds) The also have a purge skill... which costs a ***.

What would work here?
- One dmg morph and one healing morph? - Okay, but dont make the healing useless pls. Jesus.
- Rework another one of templars abilities to work as a proper HOT.
- Let skills work together like they do with necros. For example let Ritual gain stacks of whatever and repentence / radiant aura turns them into HoTs on top of the magickasteal.
- Templar tanks still need something that scales with HP and heals. Either a burst heal (rework another skill) or a HoT (scale ritual with HP or mag or stam, or like the point above, let it work together with another skill to have an HP scaled healing.


Cant say it any other way: There's seems to be a problem. And it got tackled in the worst possible way. Just deleting the passive could be worse.

Cinbri

Solinur wrote: »

Regarding the "Burning Light" Templar passive:

The tooltip of the updated ability does not properly explain the new functionality.

It should somehow explain, that it is not enough to do 4 times damage, but that AoE damage effects only count as 1 damage application regardless of how many targets are getting hit. Is there some hidden cooldown in place? The previous tooltip mentioned such a cooldown!

Because now instead of calculating proc when target recieve damage from aedric spear skill, it simply apply hidden burning light stack with 1sec duration on closest to damage source target, this debuffs stacks up to 4times and 4th stack explode into BL proc, reset and start storing again. Smth like Azureblight or similar sets. So it can store only on 1 target at a time and if changed target - previous stacks will remain on previous target so you will waste when you switch target.

Firstmep

Cinbri wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

Regarding the "Burning Light" Templar passive:

The tooltip of the updated ability does not properly explain the new functionality.

It should somehow explain, that it is not enough to do 4 times damage, but that AoE damage effects only count as 1 damage application regardless of how many targets are getting hit. Is there some hidden cooldown in place? The previous tooltip mentioned such a cooldown!

Because now instead of calculating proc when target recieve damage from aedric spear skill, it simply apply hidden burning light stack with 1sec duration on closest to damage source target, this debuffs stacks up to 4times and 4th stack explode into BL proc, reset and start storing again. Smth like Azureblight or similar sets. So it can store only on 1 target at a time and if changed target - previous stacks will remain on previous target so you will waste when you switch target.

At the very least they should allow us to proc it on multiple targets at the same time.

Cinbri

Firstmep wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

Regarding the "Burning Light" Templar passive:

The tooltip of the updated ability does not properly explain the new functionality.

It should somehow explain, that it is not enough to do 4 times damage, but that AoE damage effects only count as 1 damage application regardless of how many targets are getting hit. Is there some hidden cooldown in place? The previous tooltip mentioned such a cooldown!

Because now instead of calculating proc when target recieve damage from aedric spear skill, it simply apply hidden burning light stack with 1sec duration on closest to damage source target, this debuffs stacks up to 4times and 4th stack explode into BL proc, reset and start storing again. Smth like Azureblight or similar sets. So it can store only on 1 target at a time and if changed target - previous stacks will remain on previous target so you will waste when you switch target.

At the very least they should allow us to proc it on multiple targets at the same time.

Due to most Aedric skills to be AoE skills - it will be rudicilous OP, at least in comapre to waht we have now on live. Only if they decrease damage by alot but then for me personally it will be even more dead passive coz in 1v1 or in boss fight numbers will be just a marginal and laughable.

ThePedge

Remove the stun component of any gap-closer abilities which stun.

Koubo

Cinbri wrote: »

There is 3 pain points of Templars that should have been addressed on this PTS:
1. Updated Light Weaver passive which is only change that addressed "long standing problems", however its powerlevel making passive still pale. It should have been adjusted to maybe passives standarts.
2. Redesigned Burning Light completely ignore PvP aspect of game, drastically reducing its functionality there. It should have been readjusted to achieve equal level of functionality in both PvE/PvP.
3. Puncturing Sweeps fix of heal will drastically reduce magplar survivability. Judging from logic that was used for Veiled Strike that was fixed and in return recieved rulebreaker change in previous Update, Sweeps or other healing-related skills/passives should have been redesigned to "offset the loss" of survivability.

Just a 3 simple points raised this Update but given that PTS almost ended - it seems none of it will be addressed, creating even more pain points for class instead of addressing "emergent concerns" like it was said in preview.

You forgot to add that Stamplar are literraly in a toomb in PvP because they have 0 sustain, 0 mitigation.

Maxdevil

I think templar just need a entire rework lol

Firstmep

Maxdevil wrote: »

I think templar just need a entire rework lol

Im still scratching my head about how they casually destroyed templars offensive toolkit, while the class was already struggling survivabilty wise.

I mean templar was already really only good for 1v1-s and maybe some smallscale stuff(altough there are better options for that out there)

Backlash simply takes too long to go off openworld/bgs, and we barely get the chance to focus 1 opponent for 6 seconds outside of duels.
Puncturing strikes can hit hard, but its also highly avoidable.
On top of that our defensive ultimates [snip], we dont have enough healing power, crappy passive etc.
Its just a mess.

[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]

Solinur

Cinbri wrote: »

Because now instead of calculating proc when target recieve damage from aedric spear skill, it simply apply hidden burning light stack with 1sec duration on closest to damage source target, this debuffs stacks up to 4times and 4th stack explode into BL proc, reset and start storing again. Smth like Azureblight or similar sets. So it can store only on 1 target at a time and if changed target - previous stacks will remain on previous target so you will waste when you switch target.

Weird, for me it is "changing targets" just fine. I can wait for 3 hits of jabs or blazing spear (applied on two dummies or just one of them) and then proc it on whichever dummy using jabs or javelin.

But its not that I don't know how to figure this out, it's more a general issue regarding what an average player can make of that passive.

Firstmep

Well, i shouldnt be suprised that 10 pages of feedback was ignored once again.

Not really sure whats the point in having this thread at all.

Templar going in the dumpster for the next 3-6 months or whatever.

Thanks guys.

Pyvos

Firstmep wrote: »

Well, i shouldnt be suprised that 10 pages of feedback was ignored once again.

Not really sure whats the point in having this thread at all.

Templar going in the dumpster for the next 3-6 months or whatever.

Thanks guys.

Yea I really love how they took everyone's feedback given in various threads and incorporated it in the final PTS notes.

Oh...wait...no they didn't. Sorry, I was confusing them with a team that cared about their players.

maxjapank

Firstmep wrote: »

Well, i shouldnt be suprised that 10 pages of feedback was ignored once again.

Not really sure whats the point in having this thread at all.

Templar going in the dumpster for the next 3-6 months or whatever.

Thanks guys.

PTS has never been a place to listen to player feedback for a long time. When they come out with the first patch notes, that's what they are going to be. These combat devs decided what they want, regardless of what they players want. They haven't had a vision of class identity ever since the original combat dev who designed all the abilities left. It's sad.

Hurbster

Are they seriously going ahead with the rapids/vigor change? Even after so many people suggested alternatives?

Firstmep

maxjapank wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Well, i shouldnt be suprised that 10 pages of feedback was ignored once again.

Not really sure whats the point in having this thread at all.

Templar going in the dumpster for the next 3-6 months or whatever.

Thanks guys.

PTS has never been a place to listen to player feedback for a long time. When they come out with the first patch notes, that's what they are going to be. These combat devs decided what they want, regardless of what they players want. They haven't had a vision of class identity ever since the original combat dev who designed all the abilities left. It's sad.

Yeah but why even bother with all the feedback threads then? Just tell us that this is what it is and dont bother "collecting" feedback.

Atherakhia

I assume today's notes were probably the last changes for this patch. Is it safe to assume that despite not a single person providing a single positive thing to say about the Necromancer changes that we're getting them rammed down our throats regardless?

rrimöykk

So, no changes to stamDK or magDK? K, thanks, bye till next patch. Cancelling ESO+.

You should see how the developer(s) in Dota 2 so their job. They actually listen to the community and their feedback.

Pyvos

Atherakhia wrote: »

I assume today's notes were probably the last changes for this patch

That is correct, per the top of the PTS patch notes for 6.1.4: "The Elder Scrolls Online v6.1.4 is the final PTS patch before Stonethorn and Update 27 is released on August 24."

So yea, they may as well close all the Update 27 feedback threads. Why bother keeping them open and moderating them if they're not gonna actually read them and listen to feedback?

Firstmep

Pyvos wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

I assume today's notes were probably the last changes for this patch

That is correct, per the top of the PTS patch notes for 6.1.4: "The Elder Scrolls Online v6.1.4 is the final PTS patch before Stonethorn and Update 27 is released on August 24."

So yea, they may as well close all the Update 27 feedback threads. Why bother keeping them open and moderating them if they're not gonna actually read them and listen to feedback?

Pretty much this.
Ample feedback and testing has been done a the changes, and they just went ahead and ignored most of it.
Pretty much everyone I know in game, content creators and a big majority of forum poster are all against the buffs to procsets, yet they just left them as is.
Templar nerfs also received a lot of attention, 0 changes.
Rapid change was also met with overwhelmingly negative feedback, ignored.
And the list goes on..

WreckfulAbandon

People are right to point out how weak Stamplar healing is now, but Magplar is almost just as bad in the healing department after the 20% blanket nerf.

Breath of Life/Honor the Dead is currently too expensive for the amount of healing they provide.

Meanwhile multiple Rapid Regens still stacking on targets, groups almost entirely unaffected by heal nerf. And the New Moon Acolyte nerf certainly isn't going to hurt those same groups nearly as much as it will hurt solo/small scale players. Good going..