PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Firstmep

Another suggestion to stamplar:

Empowering Sweep: Rather than granting a single target buff to an aoe ultimate, make it so this morph instead increases the tick rate of the follow up pulses to 1s.
This would make it a more interesting aoe pressure choice, would synergise well with the extended duration the ultimate gets per target hit, and would work well with the new burning light as well.

@ZOS_Gilliam

Baharoth77

Love the stam sorc changes. The Vamp blood for blood changes are do do. Not being able to be healed by allies is just dumb in an MMO. I get lowering the power budget some....That change sucks. P.S. Frenzy still sucks and needs to be reworked totally. Gap closer for magica please!!!!!!

oscarovegren

Stx wrote: »

You cant say vigor and rally are enough for stamplars when those are available to every stam class lol.

It's just wrong that the knight/paladin class has the worst healing out of all stamina builds. In pvp the only thing they have left is a good cleanse and in pve they have literally nothing.

Stamplar has a skill which cleanse 5 effects, AoE heal, +6% weapon damage and minor mending

StamDK has cauterize which is a tiny HoT, +12% healing received, minor brutality and major mending

Stamden has shrooms, arctic blast, natures embrace (all are to expensive for its uses or scale of health), minor HoT/liftesteal in vines/trellis, major mending and free cleanse in their bull netch

Stamcro has mortal coil and increased healing done by 8% when under a negative effect

Stamblade has healing through their offense and has to kite if rally and vigor isnt enough

Stamsorc has similiar kit to stamblade but with the addition of dark deal

I dont really think you should complain that much about stamplar actually!

Stx

oscarovegren wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You cant say vigor and rally are enough for stamplars when those are available to every stam class lol.

It's just wrong that the knight/paladin class has the worst healing out of all stamina builds. In pvp the only thing they have left is a good cleanse and in pve they have literally nothing.

Stamplar has a skill which cleanse 5 effects, AoE heal, +6% weapon damage and minor mending

StamDK has cauterize which is a tiny HoT, +12% healing received, minor brutality and major mending

Stamden has shrooms, arctic blast, natures embrace (all are to expensive for its uses or scale of health), minor HoT/liftesteal in vines/trellis, major mending and free cleanse in their bull netch

Stamcro has mortal coil and increased healing done by 8% when under a negative effect

Stamblade has healing through their offense and has to kite if rally and vigor isnt enough

Stamsorc has similiar kit to stamblade but with the addition of dark deal

I dont really think you should complain that much about stamplar actually!

That list is hilarious lol. And you kind of made my point for me.

Stamplar has ZERO healing outside of extended ritual which isnt used in PvE which is what I'm talking about.

Onefrkncrzypope

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

Well in PvP standing in the back of the group and beaming from 100% health.... Jk

Firstmep

oscarovegren wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You cant say vigor and rally are enough for stamplars when those are available to every stam class lol.

It's just wrong that the knight/paladin class has the worst healing out of all stamina builds. In pvp the only thing they have left is a good cleanse and in pve they have literally nothing.

Stamplar has a skill which cleanse 5 effects, AoE heal, +6% weapon damage and minor mending

StamDK has cauterize which is a tiny HoT, +12% healing received, minor brutality and major mending

Stamden has shrooms, arctic blast, natures embrace (all are to expensive for its uses or scale of health), minor HoT/liftesteal in vines/trellis, major mending and free cleanse in their bull netch

Stamcro has mortal coil and increased healing done by 8% when under a negative effect

Stamblade has healing through their offense and has to kite if rally and vigor isnt enough

Stamsorc has similiar kit to stamblade but with the addition of dark deal

I dont really think you should complain that much about stamplar actually!

Allright then.

Ritual costs about 5k Magicka, ticks every 2 seconds and in pvp easily outpaced by a small investment into hp recovery.

Arctic blast allows you to build insanely high hp pools and still get decent healing, just look at any of the 35k hp stamdens out there, their major mending kicks in at like 15k hp which is still plenty.

StamDK is great for stacking healing %s, but they are weak against high dot pressure and defile.

Stamblade if played well, can disengage from some of the diciest situations, and can suppress single target dots with cloak.

Stamsorc, somehow you left out crit surge, which is hands down one of the best healing over time skill in the game, and since you don't even need to have any stats for it, it allows stamsorc to have hands down the best synergy with proc sets.

Stamcro can also cleanse 4 effects for hardly any cost, has multiple, literally free heals, all the mitigation and healing modifiers you want, some of the best passives in the game etc.

In summary, stamplar does have pretty bad self healing, and after this patch their damage is also going to be pretty meh, which was literally the only redeeming quality of the class.

Cinbri

Doubtfully it will be addressed this update but I would like to point another pain point of survivability of Templars. Unlike other reaons this is easy to solve tho and this reason is - similarly to old Spear Wall passive,Mending passive is outdated.
Here is comparison:

current Mending on left with pre-1.6 effect in comparison to necro passive.
Before 1.6 patch this passive was similar to waht necro passive is now - rng-based boost of healing. However after patch it was changed into non-rng constant effect, but main problem that very visible nowdays is that it stoped interacting with all healings, but only with Restoing Light skills. Maybe it was done to balance it out with old Focused Healing that was on level of constant healing boost that transformed into constant Major Mending, which was overpowered.
In result total healing, which btw is class main defense got serious decrease in its effectiveness, and equally affected both stamplars and magplars as amount of used sources of healing outside of jsut 1 skill tree is vast (for example main stampalr heal is locating in Alliance War line; while lot of healing skill morphs of magplar are located in Aedric Spear and Dawn Wrath lines).
Necromancers got old effect of Mending in their passive but updated version - Difference from old Mending and NDE is mechanic that it require skill of skilltree to be slotted but in return effect is stronger (15%<20%) In case of Mending - healing increase % not needed coz passive effect is, unlike familair passive, is not rng-based and thus more reliable. Thise would allow build diversity when you can play with your main/backbar skill bars and serve role of teaching new players to slot skills on their bars, so it strictly positive limitation; but also to proc healing-based passive it require to slot skill from exact this healing-focused skill line to keep it in control.
And for that reason Mending should be updated into similar manner - it should start require Restoring Light skill to be slotted on its bar, and affect all healings.
So it would look simply as that:

Simple update of passive.

Stx

That brings up another point..

Why is ritual of retribution even a restoring light ability now? If it has zero healing...

FlamingBeard

Stx wrote: »

That brings up another point..

Why is ritual of retribution even a restoring light ability now? If it has zero healing...

Exactly.

Ritual of Retribution, which is now solely a damage-dealing AoE, will only benefit from 1 Restoring Light passive: Sacred Ground, which gives MInor Mending and bonus mitigation when you block. There's no sense to that skill/passive interaction whatsoever in relation to Templar's class identity as a paladin archetype equivalent: providing group support by buffing or healing allies, a role which Ritual of Retribution now fails to fill entirely, outside of a synergy (Purify) which can only be accessed every 20 seconds and has its effectiveness voided when a healer is already going to be using Efficient Purge in content where purging effects is necessary.

Ritual of Retribution shall be a reskinned version of Nightblade's Twisting Path except that skill interacts with at least 3 of Shadow tree's passives: Shadow Barrier (armor), Dark Vigor (health bonus for being slotted), Dark Veil (duration increase) and also benefits the whole group with Major Expedition. Not at all saying this needs to be changed, just that Ritual of Retribution should be treated with similar mechanical consideration.

Please, in patches going forward, give some love to Templar's outdated passives and its lack of defensive utility when outnumbered before removing entire functions of skills that are only used in specific scenarios already (Ritual of Retribution is pretty exclusively used by PvE DPS stamina Templars).

VaxtinTheWolf

The problem is that it was treated with 'similar mechanical consideration', and that's why One morph does damage, and the other heals now. Just like Shadow Path's two morphs that used to do both.

actosh

Crystal Blast (morph): This ability has been reworked into a Stamina morph, and renamed to Crystal Weapon. It is now an instant-cast ability that causes your next Light or Heavy Attack made within 4 seconds to deal additional damage, equal to the standard spammable amount such as Lava Whip or Veiled Strike. Enemies hit by this ability will their armor reduced by up to 1000.

The 1k Armorshred seems kinda boring and not rly encouraging at all.

Would be nice to see something there like engulfing´s bonus for fire dmg or stagger. No straight copy´s, just come up with something more usefull and make it a real spamable not that elemental weapon copy.

Would rather like to have it with the dizzy animation (less dmg for sure so it meets spamable baseline but with a unique and cool effect that encourages and benefits the grp).

Atherakhia

Necromaner -- Grave Grasp

This change doesn't really help anything and it will still never be used. The skill is just designed incredibly bad and is simply too weak to ever use. The 3 consecutive circles each cast in front of the other allows for FAR too much counter play to ever legitimately be used in the way you've intended with this change. The likelyhood that a player would see the first circle and ever actually get struck by the second is incredibly low. The idea that they'd see the first one, and the second, and ever get hit by the third is even more remote. As another player said earlier, the only way this consecutive circle approach to the skill would ever work is if you reversed them. The first circle stunned, the second immobilized, and the third snared to reflect the skill getting weaker the further out it goes. But at that point, why even bother because the only reason anyone would ever use it is for a point blank AE stun.

The skill is just bad and you're making it worse.

There are only 2 ways to really improve this skill in my opinion. Make it so all 3 circles immobilize by default like the morph does currently on live. Make the circles overlap by 30-50%. Then make each circle put a stacking debuff on the target. The first debuff is the immobilize. The second debuff would stun them and deal a fairly large amount of damage. A third debuff should probably just crash the server since I have no idea how a target would legitimately ever get hit by all 3. But you get the idea. The problem with this approach is it makes the other morph that buffs minions and allies as useless as it currently is.

The better approach in my opinion is for the Necromancer to cast the skill and it sets off 3 player centered ground AEs at their feet each larger than the last with a minor delay between each. Basically exactly like it works now but the circles are all centered on the caster and each circle is slightly larger than the last. Each circle will put a brief, stacking debuff on enemies hit up to a maximum of 3. 1 stack is a snare, 2 stacks is an immob, and 3 stacks is a stun. That's the base functionality.

You could then have a DPS morph that causes every target hit to take damage based off the number of stacks they had. The other morph could put a stacking buff on allies and minions.

Atherakhia

I also wanted to add some other generic Necromancer issues that have been stated before but deserve repeating.

The class is very clunk and there's no better way to demonstrate that than with Shocking Siphon. This skill is plagued with LOS issues in PvE and has limited/no functional use whatsoever in PvP. As someone else in this thread said, at some point you guys need to cut bait and just accept that it's not ever going to work and rethink how this skill works. The easiest thing to do would be to just require this skill to have a corpse nearby, consume one of the corpses and put a DOT on the target. I have no idea what the problem is with tether skills in PvE but seeing as how Zaan doesn't work either, it's probably safe to say that still attempting to restrict this DOT with a tether would be a bad idea. Just make it a DOT at this point. This goes for both morphs. Restoring Tether doesn't have nearly the same problems and is obviously used in PvP without any issues (aside from being too powerful depending on who you ask).

Corpse generation is also aggrivating at times. When a target dies with a proc (ie. you burn them to ash, you freeze them) they don't leave behind a corpse which makes it quite annoying from a solo/PvE point of view.

Then there's the obvious issues with Blastbones. The stamina morph is too powerful and the magicka morph is too weak. I honeslty don't understand how this hasn't been addressed at this point. This has to be the lowest of low hanging fruit for the Necromancer class at this point, perhaps even the whole game given everyone is convinced Necromancers are OP specifically because of Major Defile on blighted. Please use this patch to get blastbones under control for both Mag and Stam.

actosh

Nightblades still lack a Synergy that is not tied to an Ultimate.

One of the things wich also suxx is the lack of Group support/utility

Change Power Extraction in the Siphoning Tree please to the following (since nb is a kinda offensive class)

Renamed to "Power Transfer"
If an enemy is hit u siphon their power over to your Allies granting them 258 Weapon and Spelldmg for 8 seconds.

If u wanna keep the major brut/sorcery wouldn rly matter, but the dmg reduction that the skill actually has isnt rly making nb´s wanna slot it since sometimes u feel like it has an effect, and sometimes it does not.

WrathOfInnos

actosh wrote: »

Nightblades still lack a Synergy that is not tied to an Ultimate.

One of the things wich also suxx is the lack of Group support/utility

Change Power Extraction in the Siphoning Tree please to the following (since nb is a kinda offensive class)

Renamed to "Power Transfer"
If an enemy is hit u siphon their power over to your Allies granting them 258 Weapon and Spelldmg for 8 seconds.

If u wanna keep the major brut/sorcery wouldn rly matter, but the dmg reduction that the skill actually has isnt rly making nb´s wanna slot it since sometimes u feel like it has an effect, and sometimes it does not.

Interesting ideas. A synergy would be nice, and not like the invisibility one people use for trolling (removes all Thrassian stacks).

The only issue I see is that stamblade already does bring something useful to a group, Minor Savagery. They also bring an armor debuff in from Surprise Attack in fights that allow flanking. It’s Magblade that is missing any type of group buff or utility, and Magblades don’t slot Power Extraction they use Sap Essence. Not sure Sap would even be a great place for a group debuff, since it’s not particularly useful for boss fights.

I would like to see a group damage buff and synergy added somewhere in the nightblade kit, and not another armor debuff like Surprise Attack, Power of the Light or Crystal Weapon. Maybe something more unique and outside the Major/Minor buff system, like Stone Giant stagger, but not a copy of it.

Myconos

The utility skills nightblades have don't work well for healers or tanks. Lotus fan has the hidden cast time and sometimes drops block and it only applies minor vulnerability, which also comes from shock damage and several other skills. Shade gives minor maim, but most tanks would slot heroic slash anyways which gives maim as does any frost damage. The armor shred from surprise attack doesn't work for tanks since it only applies from flank. Both healers and tanks would rather use sap than power extraction due to the extra healing, plus sap gives a bit of a pseudo taunt since it has a high priority in the enemy AI's aggression ranking. There is a different source of minor magicka steal, but it can be provided from destro staff instead so it doesn't add anything new. Tanks at least have a skill that makes sense to slot for minor savagery, but no skill really fits for NB healers to actively use. Most of the utility from the nightblade kit other classes get from doing elemental damage or are easily found in other skill lines. The couple class unique group buffs are geared towards stamblade dps.

In terms of places for a synergy, mark, path, and still funnel health are underwhelming. A synergy that applies critical vulnerability (i.e. the opposite of impen) to an enemy or gives a bonus to damage from flank would be fitting for the class. Path could provide minor endurance as a synergy, which fits the theme of path being "refreshing", but other classes also provide that utility. Minor heroism is something that's useful to everyone that currently no one else can provide to the group. I would rather it not be some sort of defensive buff as a lot of those are viewed as unneeded in a lot of content.

igniz93

ZOS please revert the TERRIBLE changes regarding jabs frequency. Please revert it back to the way it is on live servers, and just update the tooltip accordingly. On PTS, jabs feel extremely bad to LA weave with. It's slow and clunky, not fun at all.

Josira

Here is my feedback for this pts. and also the last pts. and probably the next pts too likely:


Why.

Zekka

Necromancer: Tethers should go back to being off GCD, last patch "fix" barely improved targetting issues.
Crystal Weapon: Decent as a spammable for PvE or delayed damage for a burst combo in PvP and it does feel a little bit smoother to use than Crushing Weapon for some reason, I still think it should have been an instant cast ability instead of a better version of CW.
Stone Husk monster set: Looks pretty underwhelming to me, completely useless in PvP and while I don't PvE a lot (and never on stamina) I can't see it becoming popular there too.
You need a heavy attack every 10 seconds to make it work on cooldown, the first part is 5 weak damage ticks (around 2k in PvE) from the tether then up to 450 weapon damage for 5s and that's only if the thin tether hits at least 3 targets on every tick.

Dracane

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Nightblades still lack a Synergy that is not tied to an Ultimate.

One of the things wich also suxx is the lack of Group support/utility

Change Power Extraction in the Siphoning Tree please to the following (since nb is a kinda offensive class)

Renamed to "Power Transfer"
If an enemy is hit u siphon their power over to your Allies granting them 258 Weapon and Spelldmg for 8 seconds.

If u wanna keep the major brut/sorcery wouldn rly matter, but the dmg reduction that the skill actually has isnt rly making nb´s wanna slot it since sometimes u feel like it has an effect, and sometimes it does not.

Interesting ideas. A synergy would be nice, and not like the invisibility one people use for trolling (removes all Thrassian stacks).

The only issue I see is that stamblade already does bring something useful to a group, Minor Savagery. They also bring an armor debuff in from Surprise Attack in fights that allow flanking. It’s Magblade that is missing any type of group buff or utility, and Magblades don’t slot Power Extraction they use Sap Essence. Not sure Sap would even be a great place for a group debuff, since it’s not particularly useful for boss fights.

I would like to see a group damage buff and synergy added somewhere in the nightblade kit, and not another armor debuff like Surprise Attack, Power of the Light or Crystal Weapon. Maybe something more unique and outside the Major/Minor buff system, like Stone Giant stagger, but not a copy of it.

That is a good idea. It always bothered me, that nightblade is the only class without a group synergy. They may have 2 ultimate synergies unlike other classes who usually only have 1. But that does not count.

actosh

Minor Heroism as Grpbuff would be nice on a Nb, but...... Expect it to be slapped on the new class

SilverKatz

Reinforce and Nirn trait are too weak compare to other trait in both PVP and PVE wise.

Jodynn

Invigorating is still pretty trash

Decisive would be better suited without a proc period

Nirnhoned weapons, especially staves, are weaker than other traits

Infused needs more of a buff for armor and a buff on weapons and should affect poisons instead of making the trait useless if poisons are slotted

Firstmep

Langeston wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

[Quoted post was removed]

I mean there is definetly an argument to be made, at least this patch.
You can stack a lot of max hp + vitality and dark cloak is actually pretty decent.
Plus the 10% mit from grim focus is not to be underestimated.
There are quite a few tanky nb healers in bgs, that literally take an organized group to take down.
At least BOL spamming templars run out of resources eventually.

Czekoludek

Firstmep wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

[Quoted post was removed]

I mean there is definetly an argument to be made, at least this patch.
You can stack a lot of max hp + vitality and dark cloak is actually pretty decent.
Plus the 10% mit from grim focus is not to be underestimated.
There are quite a few tanky nb healers in bgs, that literally take an organized group to take down.
At least BOL spamming templars run out of resources eventually.

I didn't see magblade healing from 0 to 100% in two seconds like many magplars can do in a very long time. Dark cloak is great for very tanky chars with a lot of HP (around 40k+). Tankblade is nearly unkillable with a little support but is not able to kill anything so more like a troll build. Magblade without healing staff is either ganker, bomber or dead body. Magplar can backbar shield without healing problem and it is a big buff to their defence. Actually all my magplar friends use destro/destro or destro/shield on their PvP toons and nobody even consider healing staff as their healing is MUCH better then magNB's.

Qbiken

Czekoludek wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

[Quoted post was removed]

I mean there is definetly an argument to be made, at least this patch.
You can stack a lot of max hp + vitality and dark cloak is actually pretty decent.
Plus the 10% mit from grim focus is not to be underestimated.
There are quite a few tanky nb healers in bgs, that literally take an organized group to take down.
At least BOL spamming templars run out of resources eventually.

I didn't see magblade healing from 0 to 100% in two seconds like many magplars can do in a very long time. Dark cloak is great for very tanky chars with a lot of HP (around 40k+). Tankblade is nearly unkillable with a little support but is not able to kill anything so more like a troll build. Magblade without healing staff is either ganker, bomber or dead body. Magplar can backbar shield without healing problem and it is a big buff to their defence. Actually all my magplar friends use destro/destro or destro/shield on their PvP toons and nobody even consider healing staff as their healing is MUCH better then magNB's.

Go NOCP on a magplar that isn´t a healbot and tell me how long you´ll be able to turtle on your backbar with Sword and board pumping out on avarage 4-5k HtD/BoL before you die.......once you get stuck on your backbar being forced to turtle up, you´re not getting away from that backbar most of the time.

The times of "2 breath of life and magplar is back to full" is since long gone and is non existent, especially in nocp.

Czekoludek

Qbiken wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

[Quoted post was removed]

I mean there is definetly an argument to be made, at least this patch.
You can stack a lot of max hp + vitality and dark cloak is actually pretty decent.
Plus the 10% mit from grim focus is not to be underestimated.
There are quite a few tanky nb healers in bgs, that literally take an organized group to take down.
At least BOL spamming templars run out of resources eventually.

I didn't see magblade healing from 0 to 100% in two seconds like many magplars can do in a very long time. Dark cloak is great for very tanky chars with a lot of HP (around 40k+). Tankblade is nearly unkillable with a little support but is not able to kill anything so more like a troll build. Magblade without healing staff is either ganker, bomber or dead body. Magplar can backbar shield without healing problem and it is a big buff to their defence. Actually all my magplar friends use destro/destro or destro/shield on their PvP toons and nobody even consider healing staff as their healing is MUCH better then magNB's.

Go NOCP on a magplar that isn´t a healbot and tell me how long you´ll be able to turtle on your backbar with Sword and board pumping out on avarage 4-5k HtD/BoL before you die.......once you get stuck on your backbar being forced to turtle up, you´re not getting away from that backbar most of the time.

The times of "2 breath of life and magplar is back to full" is since long gone and is non existent, especially in nocp.

Go magblade on nocp and tell me how good magNB heals are when almost every semicompetent player will trash your HP pool faster then you can say "magblade OP". Fast healing healplars are a thing in cp ofc cuz in nocp healing is a lot harder. Still, even in nocp magplars have easier job then magblade

Firstmep

Czekoludek wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

[Quoted post was removed]

I mean there is definetly an argument to be made, at least this patch.
You can stack a lot of max hp + vitality and dark cloak is actually pretty decent.
Plus the 10% mit from grim focus is not to be underestimated.
There are quite a few tanky nb healers in bgs, that literally take an organized group to take down.
At least BOL spamming templars run out of resources eventually.

I didn't see magblade healing from 0 to 100% in two seconds like many magplars can do in a very long time. Dark cloak is great for very tanky chars with a lot of HP (around 40k+). Tankblade is nearly unkillable with a little support but is not able to kill anything so more like a troll build. Magblade without healing staff is either ganker, bomber or dead body. Magplar can backbar shield without healing problem and it is a big buff to their defence. Actually all my magplar friends use destro/destro or destro/shield on their PvP toons and nobody even consider healing staff as their healing is MUCH better then magNB's.

Go NOCP on a magplar that isn´t a healbot and tell me how long you´ll be able to turtle on your backbar with Sword and board pumping out on avarage 4-5k HtD/BoL before you die.......once you get stuck on your backbar being forced to turtle up, you´re not getting away from that backbar most of the time.

The times of "2 breath of life and magplar is back to full" is since long gone and is non existent, especially in nocp.

Go magblade on nocp and tell me how good magNB heals are when almost every semicompetent player will trash your HP pool faster then you can say "magblade OP". Fast healing healplars are a thing in cp ofc cuz in nocp healing is a lot harder. Still, even in nocp magplars have easier job then magblade

I play invis cloak nb, and with shade i feel way more survivable than on magplar, simply beacuse i can disengage.

On templar you really cant do that.

As far as dark cloak magblade, i see lots of them out there even in cp cyro, pretty much staying at full hp with 67 different hots rolling, so yeah that playstyle also exist, and you dont even have to block on your backbar for your healing to kick in.

Anyway I'd happily trade breath of life burst heal for a proper Hot, that doesn't cost nearly 4k Magicka and only works aganist direct dmg.

Langeston

It seems like whenever people try to pretend that magblades aren't complete garbage right now, they always compare a normal everyday build from one class to a niche magblade build that 95% of magblades either don't or won't play for one reason or another. If you need to do stack the deck like that, you've already lost the debate.

The long and short of it is this: if you're on a magplar and you get beat by a magblade, they were either a better player than you or they had a better build. One thing is for certain though: it wasn't their class that beat you.

Langeston

Firstmep wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

[Quoted post was removed]

I mean there is definetly an argument to be made, at least this patch.
You can stack a lot of max hp + vitality and dark cloak is actually pretty decent.
Plus the 10% mit from grim focus is not to be underestimated.
There are quite a few tanky nb healers in bgs, that literally take an organized group to take down.
At least BOL spamming templars run out of resources eventually.

I didn't see magblade healing from 0 to 100% in two seconds like many magplars can do in a very long time. Dark cloak is great for very tanky chars with a lot of HP (around 40k+). Tankblade is nearly unkillable with a little support but is not able to kill anything so more like a troll build. Magblade without healing staff is either ganker, bomber or dead body. Magplar can backbar shield without healing problem and it is a big buff to their defence. Actually all my magplar friends use destro/destro or destro/shield on their PvP toons and nobody even consider healing staff as their healing is MUCH better then magNB's.

Go NOCP on a magplar that isn´t a healbot and tell me how long you´ll be able to turtle on your backbar with Sword and board pumping out on avarage 4-5k HtD/BoL before you die.......once you get stuck on your backbar being forced to turtle up, you´re not getting away from that backbar most of the time.

The times of "2 breath of life and magplar is back to full" is since long gone and is non existent, especially in nocp.

Go magblade on nocp and tell me how good magNB heals are when almost every semicompetent player will trash your HP pool faster then you can say "magblade OP". Fast healing healplars are a thing in cp ofc cuz in nocp healing is a lot harder. Still, even in nocp magplars have easier job then magblade

I play invis cloak nb, and with shade i feel way more survivable than on magplar, simply beacuse i can disengage.

On templar you really cant do that.

As far as dark cloak magblade, i see lots of them out there even in cp cyro, pretty much staying at full hp with 67 different hots rolling, so yeah that playstyle also exist, and you dont even have to block on your backbar for your healing to kick in.

Anyway I'd happily trade breath of life burst heal for a proper Hot, that doesn't cost nearly 4k Magicka and only works aganist direct dmg.

67 huh? I understand that that's hyperbole, but what you're basically saying is that in order to survive on a Dark Cloak magblade, practically every skill on both bars needs to be a HOT. Sounds like a blast.