PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Cinbri

Jabs additional aoe damage is below standarts of aoe damage-effectiveness, and thus unlike Cleave or Scythe, its effectiveness is by far lower, as addtional damage numbers doesn't take into account that skill is channel and not just channel but 1.0s channel which is additional 20% damage increase as result of impossibility to properly weave light attack.
It needs to be addressed by either keep it below-standarts aoe damage and finally change closest single target damage into being unaffected by evasion buff or update aoe damage and buff it for appropriate numbers.

Stx

Stamplar needs some kind of healing added to its kit. It is the light magic class and it has ZERO class self healing now that you removed the heal from ritual of ret. None. As in literally the only healing my stamplar will have is from vigor. Every other stamina class has one to two skills that heal. But the knight class doesnt?

Maybe it's time to add healing to the stamina morphs of jabs, power of the light, or maybe just dont nerf ritual of ret.

VaxtinTheWolf

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the Damage/Healing morph that got it's healing removed, and the other morph that only healed to begin with was untouched? If you want healing it's still there, and that's the morph my stamina focused Tamplar tank used anyway.

With that said, it still is an absolute struggle to heal yourself since the other healing skills are not reliable for self-healing or costs way too much. My perspective is PvE 4-man dungeons.

WrathOfInnos

Magicka Templar needs group utility. They currently bring nothing unique to a trial group on PTS. Previously their largest contribution was the off-healing from Ritual of Retribution, but now that has been removed. IMO off-healing skills like the old Refreshing Path, Funnel Health, and Twilight Matriarch are good for group synergy, but if it must be removed then I ask that something else be provided instead.

Templar’s unique Minor buff is Minor Sorcery, for 10% increase in Spell Damage to the group. However it’s always pointless and redundant for a Magplar to have this is optimized groups. This is because the other unique debuff from Templar is Minor Breach and Fracture from Power of the Light. Magplar cannot reasonably run PotL, since Purifying Light is one of their most important skills, which leads to every group needing a Stamplar or a Templar healer/tank to use PotL. Once that role is filled, the group will get Minor Sorcery for free from the PotL casts, and there is no additional reason to need a Magicka Templar DPS.

Maybe the best solution would be to add Minor Breach to Purifying Light. This would allow a Magplar to fill the group Templar role in Magicka groups, while opening up the option of healers using other classes. It would also be a convenience for Templar healers and tanks, to have the option of a Minor Breach skill that costs Magicka instead of Stamina. And Purifying Light would not be overpowered with this change, because it would be accompanied by the damage nerf already in 6.1.0, particularly affecting PVP.

Cinbri

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

KageNin wrote: »

Ambush - as a class gap closer its very good , aproppriate cost, good utility not a bad skill overall, but since its a teleport skill it continously fails to fire since even if enemy puts their little finger behind a rock server things they are gone completely from sight.
Thus putting many NBs to opt out to more reliant skills like Critical Charge since those ,,move,, your character to enemy location.
Can this be looked into?

Crit charge and toppling charge fail on those same LOS checks i can assure you, dont worry.

Not true, toppling sometimes ignores height differences while ambush doesnt. Toppling is the better gab closer.

All gap-closers using same repoisitioning and path-tracking calculations. For that reason all charges works exactly same terribly, even ultimate Leap. Only repositioning skill that not suffer from texture problem and current desync bug is Streak that zos fixed long ago.
Apart from that templar charge has problem with delay after skill finished, that especially hurting weapon swap, might be result of it playing clunky "leaping stab" animation in the end.

Stx wrote: »

Maybe it's time to add healing to the stamina morphs of jabs

Same as Scythe were base skill has incorporated healing, while morphs have additional effect. And as I mentioned current aoe mechanic of jabs is outdated. Fix/nerf to sweeps healing might be good time to update skill.

Stx

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the Damage/Healing morph that got it's healing removed, and the other morph that only healed to begin with was untouched? If you want healing it's still there, and that's the morph my stamina focused Tamplar tank used anyway.

With that said, it still is an absolute struggle to heal yourself since the other healing skills are not reliable for self-healing or costs way too much. My perspective is PvE 4-man dungeons.

Right, I could drop ritual of ret in favor of the healing morph, but then I would be missing out on a skill that does a ton of damage. As a stamplar ritual of ret is one of only a couple skills worth slotting on the backbar.

Stx

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

If the skill was nerfed just because they thought it did too much, then that's BS because every class has a few skills that are overloaded as hell. Have they seen blue betty?

Cinbri

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

Czekoludek

Stx wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the Damage/Healing morph that got it's healing removed, and the other morph that only healed to begin with was untouched? If you want healing it's still there, and that's the morph my stamina focused Tamplar tank used anyway.

With that said, it still is an absolute struggle to heal yourself since the other healing skills are not reliable for self-healing or costs way too much. My perspective is PvE 4-man dungeons.

Right, I could drop ritual of ret in favor of the healing morph, but then I would be missing out on a skill that does a ton of damage. As a stamplar ritual of ret is one of only a couple skills worth slotting on the backbar.

So basically the same as for Nb some time ago. Maybe now it is time for two years of constant nerfs to templars?

Czekoludek

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

That's why every magblade PvP build require healing staff on backbar to survive but templars can go both destro without bigger issues?

Cinbri

Czekoludek wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

Jabs healing was nerfed

Cinbri wrote: »

And here is screen from pts

As i said before heal on pts is based per individual target, not equal to maintarget.
So crit to maintarget is 1972 into 953 heal; noncrit 1120 into 541 heal. Crit to additional target is 758 into 366 heal; noncrit 430 into 208 heal.
As you can see my first tick was fully noncrit so heal on pts from it is 541+208=749 heal. On live it would be 541+541=1082 heal.
2nd tick was fully crit so on pts it healed for 953+366=1319. On live it would be 953+953=1906.
Lets assume your maintarget noncrit and additional target crit. On pts heal would be 541+366=907. On live it would be 541+541=1082.
So if you hit 50 people, noncrit maintarget and crit all 49 additional targets: on pts total heal would be 541+366x49=18475. On live it would be 541x50=27050.
So the more targets you hit - the less and less healing you get, simply coz additional damage is just 40% of main damage and thus heal lower. And you will never meet targets with such rudiculous difference in mitigation that side damage which is 2.5 times weaker than main damage will start to deal at least equal to it damage.
As i said for pve its ok, coz it stupid to get god mode survivability on spammable, but for pvp its overkill and require other side changes for class to survive in outnumbered fight better in either overhaul how it heal (Scythe) or boost overall survivability (Living Dark buff).

P.S.: I thought skills overhaul suppose to improve perfomance of skills and lower calculations. However on live game wasnt forced to calculate each individual heal, jsut streamline it into mainheal, but on pts it now calculate each hit and even in recount it shows up as each individual damage/heal tick. Given that jabs target cap unlimited - logically it looks like rudiculous decrease of skill already poor perfomance and increasing amount of calcualtions it has to do per 1 cast to astronomical numbers.

Doesnt change fact that magplar survivability is even lower than magblade's in pvp.

That's why every magblade PvP build require healing staff on backbar to survive but templars can go both destro without bigger issues?

Answer is simple - its your personal immersion that can be easily proved to be wrong by logical explanation. But since this is thread for pts changes i wont bother to write wall of text that zos wont even read.

oscarovegren

The base health buff to coag was logical in terms of power in comparison to HotD and so on. Great job!

Now, burst heals also grant some additional effect.
Honor of the dead has 60% mag return and can heal others
Resistent flesh has resistance (but minor defile to you) and can heal others
Coag blood has major fortitude.

Major fortitude is such an easy accessible buff through tripots so I would rather see anything instead of this. I would be happy for anything else then some of the major recovery buffs. The minor vitality from the green dragons blood morph would be something more unique in my opinion. But as I said: I am happy for anything useful outside those major recovery buffs

I do think some morph in the templar toolkit could be healthbased for PvE tanking. There are many healskills to choose from in their toolkit. Just pick one and make it healthbased

Is there a possibility to tune down proc sets from 50% to 45% damage in noCP only? And still have the 50% in CP? I think that may be balanced in terms of the sets impact in the PvP enviroment

I really like a lot of changes and I am looking forward to the new patch!

Koubo

Cinbri wrote: »

Jabs additional aoe damage is below standarts of aoe damage-effectiveness, and thus unlike Cleave or Scythe, its effectiveness is by far lower, as addtional damage numbers doesn't take into account that skill is channel and not just channel but 1.0s channel which is additional 20% damage increase as result of impossibility to properly weave light attack.
It needs to be addressed by either keep it below-standarts aoe damage and finally change closest single target damage into being unaffected by evasion debuff or update aoe damage and buff it for appropriate numbers.

How many time i've explain that to people who keep crying on (Stam)Plar like crazy. This skill is meh for AoE, Stamplar is far from the best in AoE content (isn't bad either) and in PvP... Without any feedback and any report from ZOS i would keep my hope very low tho...

Czekoludek wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the Damage/Healing morph that got it's healing removed, and the other morph that only healed to begin with was untouched? If you want healing it's still there, and that's the morph my stamina focused Tamplar tank used anyway.

With that said, it still is an absolute struggle to heal yourself since the other healing skills are not reliable for self-healing or costs way too much. My perspective is PvE 4-man dungeons.

Right, I could drop ritual of ret in favor of the healing morph, but then I would be missing out on a skill that does a ton of damage. As a stamplar ritual of ret is one of only a couple skills worth slotting on the backbar.

So basically the same as for Nb some time ago. Maybe now it is time for two years of constant nerfs to templars?

gnié? first, Templar is not only about Mag, then if a class if constant nerf, only very few people will play it. I dont think any dev' should think about something like that. I went against a MagBlade few days ago in BG and this guy was awesome and really hard to kill! I'm terrible in PvP, But i know how to kill someone and i know when someone is very strong (my opinion)

Playboy_Shrek

you're nerfing tank NB and they aren't a tier 1 tanking class. please consider adding 10% damage mitigation somewhere in the shadow tree passives.

WardenOfTheExalted

DO NOT CHANGE FALSE GODS ITS FINE THE WAY IT IS..

Hamboot

Please make the grim focus proc take advantage of the crit damage change

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537751/grim-focus-proc-should-benefit-from-the-passive-crit-damage

also can you guys increase the dmg and healing of swallow soul?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537282/zos-please-consider-also-buffing-the-swallow-soul-morph-of-strife-along-with-funnel-health/p1

The702Guy

Can we get class change tokens in a future patch? Or at least account wide achievements? I have a main toon I love to play on and he is a dk, but I feel like dks get no love for damage ever. I would love to switch to another class but I want finish all my completes on one toon. Class change tokens should definitely be a thing.

scottii

Did some duels yesterday against a player with proc three proc sets, and its absolutely the lazest thing to do in pvp that I've ever seen.

Spam light attacks, keep heals up, the sets procs, you win. There's not real brain power that goes to this type of combat.

Just now, I found this video where you can build high health, run tanky, and the damage from proc sets remains unchanged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ql5gZomRw

JayKwellen

Hamboot wrote: »

@Hamboot Please make the grim focus proc take advantage of the crit damage change

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537751/grim-focus-proc-should-benefit-from-the-passive-crit-damage

also can you guys increase the dmg and healing of swallow soul?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537282/zos-please-consider-also-buffing-the-swallow-soul-morph-of-strife-along-with-funnel-health/p1

Regarding swallow soul, I'm guessing the damage is still the same despite the buff to the base abilities damage? A small buff to it's damage could increase it's healing, but I think simply adding back minor vitality would be better.

It's damage meets the (low) "standard" ZoS has set for magicka spammables, so it's damage will likely not be increased.

However, considering the battle spirit nerf to healing has seriously compounded the healing issues magblades already face, I think adding minor vitality back would be a good solution. Not like our swallow/siphoning spam is going out heal any real kind of damage if we get pinned down. Regen is already undependable, as is healing ward, so I seriously doubt giving us 8% more healing would be a problem, even with the changes to grim focus.

"But what about dark cloak magblades??" They're already losing a great deal of tankiness in the grim focus change, and typically don't stack enough crit to benefit tremendously from the healing crit change that's replacing it. Besides, the few that are left are likely so experienced at this point that they'd probably good with or without it anyway.

Strider__Roshin

Ambush is inferior to both morphs of the 2H Crit Charge. Crit Rush has more burst, Stampede applies a DoT which outdoes the extra damage you'll get from minor vulnerability, and the Crit Charge in general feels better and performs faster.

My suggestion? Speed up the animation of teleport strike, and for the Ambush morph make it so it teleports you behind your opponent. This would fit the play style and it would be a unique effect.

JayKwellen

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Ambush is inferior to both morphs of the 2H Crit Charge. Crit Rush has more burst, Stampede applies a DoT which outdoes the extra damage you'll get from minor vulnerability, and the Crit Charge in general feels better and performs faster.

My suggestion? Speed up the animation of teleport strike, and for the Ambush morph make it so it teleports you behind your opponent. This would fit the play style and it would be a unique effect.

At the very least get rid of the cast time.

Can't tell you how many times I tried using it only to have the person unintentionally LoS the ability, or go just high enough or low enough on the terrain, that the ability ended up not working because they did it before the cast time finished.

Also tried having it on my backbar once, only to find out you could unintentionally animation cancel the whole ability and prevent it from going off. I eventually got so annoyed I just took it off completely.

For an "assassin" class it sure is strange how slow and delayed all our abilities are, even the ones apparently incorrectly labeled "instant".

jecks33

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

why always asking for other classes nerfs?

Stx

Czekoludek wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the Damage/Healing morph that got it's healing removed, and the other morph that only healed to begin with was untouched? If you want healing it's still there, and that's the morph my stamina focused Tamplar tank used anyway.

With that said, it still is an absolute struggle to heal yourself since the other healing skills are not reliable for self-healing or costs way too much. My perspective is PvE 4-man dungeons.

Right, I could drop ritual of ret in favor of the healing morph, but then I would be missing out on a skill that does a ton of damage. As a stamplar ritual of ret is one of only a couple skills worth slotting on the backbar.

So basically the same as for Nb some time ago. Maybe now it is time for two years of constant nerfs to templars?

Nope. Not the same for nightblade.. NB has leeching strikes, stamplar has zero other sources of healing.

Stx

jecks33 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I guess dont understand WHY ritual of ret was nerfed. Stamplars have no other source of healing, magplars have other sources but of magplar healing was the issue, why not nerf jabs heal?

why always asking for other classes nerfs?

I dont think you understand what I was saying. I dont want anything nerfed but I'm trying to understand the logic behind nerfing ritual.

Czekoludek

Stx wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the Damage/Healing morph that got it's healing removed, and the other morph that only healed to begin with was untouched? If you want healing it's still there, and that's the morph my stamina focused Tamplar tank used anyway.

With that said, it still is an absolute struggle to heal yourself since the other healing skills are not reliable for self-healing or costs way too much. My perspective is PvE 4-man dungeons.

Right, I could drop ritual of ret in favor of the healing morph, but then I would be missing out on a skill that does a ton of damage. As a stamplar ritual of ret is one of only a couple skills worth slotting on the backbar.

So basically the same as for Nb some time ago. Maybe now it is time for two years of constant nerfs to templars?

Nope. Not the same for nightblade.. NB has leeching strikes, stamplar has zero other sources of healing.

Vigor, Rally, Repentance, Extended Ritual? Leeching is pretty weak heal tbh, good sustain tool but in pvp vigor + rally is enough healing for stam.
I understand that stamplar have healing problems but don't tell me that blades are good in that department cuz it is bs

Stx

Czekoludek wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the Damage/Healing morph that got it's healing removed, and the other morph that only healed to begin with was untouched? If you want healing it's still there, and that's the morph my stamina focused Tamplar tank used anyway.

With that said, it still is an absolute struggle to heal yourself since the other healing skills are not reliable for self-healing or costs way too much. My perspective is PvE 4-man dungeons.

Right, I could drop ritual of ret in favor of the healing morph, but then I would be missing out on a skill that does a ton of damage. As a stamplar ritual of ret is one of only a couple skills worth slotting on the backbar.

So basically the same as for Nb some time ago. Maybe now it is time for two years of constant nerfs to templars?

Nope. Not the same for nightblade.. NB has leeching strikes, stamplar has zero other sources of healing.

Vigor, Rally, Repentance, Extended Ritual? Leeching is pretty weak heal tbh, good sustain tool but in pvp vigor + rally is enough healing for stam.
I understand that stamplar have healing problems but don't tell me that blades are good in that department cuz it is bs

Stam nightblade has pretty weak healing too, but before this patch they had 10% mitigation which helped make up for that but that's another nerf I dont agree with.

I'm not talking about pvp, extended ritual works in pvp as a nice cleanse backup heal. I'm talking about pve.

To be fair, I forgot about repentance, but a heal that only works after you've killed something doesnt really help much in combat, same with piercing mark etc.

jecks33

Stx wrote: »

why not nerf jabs heal?

Stx wrote: »

I dont want anything nerfed but I'm trying to understand the logic behind nerfing ritual.

yes.....

Koubo

Czekoludek wrote: »

in pvp vigor + rally is enough healing for stam.

disagree. I play stam(plar) and even using both dosent save me 99% of the time. I'm better in WW using Hircine ...

Stx

jecks33 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

why not nerf jabs heal?

Stx wrote: »

I dont want anything nerfed but I'm trying to understand the logic behind nerfing ritual.

yes.....

😩

Stx

You cant say vigor and rally are enough for stamplars when those are available to every stam class lol.

It's just wrong that the knight/paladin class has the worst healing out of all stamina builds. In pvp the only thing they have left is a good cleanse and in pve they have literally nothing.