Update 27 Combat Preview

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi everyone! Today, we’d like to present what we’re focusing on regarding combat changes for Update 27. As always, be aware these are just the current proposed adjustments and are subject to change during the upcoming PTS cycle. With the ongoing focus on overall server/client performance for combat, we are continuing the audit on item sets. For this round, we are continuing the item set adjustments we started in Update 26, and as you’ve come to expect with DLCs, there will also be several new sets to acquire from the new dungeons.

We are also doing some class adjustments from long standing player requests and outliers. As a reminder, we are currently addressing class abilities on a singular basis and not as a whole package just yet. This means larger Class reworks are not in the cards in this update, but other adjustments will be made to help with server/client performance and functionality that may be missing in various class kits.

Performance:

Last year, we started the process of adjusting abilities to be more performant on the server/client and ensuring they follow standards to eliminate over or under performing situations. In U26, we applied standards and these performance adjustments to Monster Helms and Arena Weapons. In U27, we are continuingthat long process by conforming most of the remaining item sets. As an example of performance adjustments, many “proc chances” are being removed and will now apply on specific triggers with a timer. As such, to have the ability conform to standards, the effect of that proc will be adjusted to be stronger or weaker depending on the timer and trigger condition.
Below are a couple examples of some item sets we plan to adjust with these goals in mind:

• Performance-related example
  • Trial By Fire: This set will no longer grant Resistances to a unique type of damage category, such as Flame or Poison, for a short duration after being hit. Instead, it will grant your Armor while under the effects of any Elemental Status Effect, such as Burning or Poisoned.
• Standardization-related example
  • Armor of the Veiled Heritance: This set will grant 516 Weapon Damage after interrupting a target, up from 400. This set will also permanently increase the damage of your Bash attacks by 516.

These types of changes will be retroactive, and you won’t need to re-farm gear for these adjustments.

Classes & Skills:

Each Class will be receiving some minor adjustments based on the need for performance adjustments, feedback received, or emergent concerns over the past year. This includes adjustments to active abilities and passives, in certain cases. Again, these are not whole sale changes to an entire skill line when it comes to Class adjustments, only individual abilities.
A good example of this is the adjustments being made to the Necromancer skill Grave Grasp. Currently, this skill shot isn’t seen as very useful and is the least used ability in the Necromancer kit. We are adjusting the ability to be more performant with a slight change in functionality so it will still use 3 areas, but each area will have escalating values of crowd control starting from snare to stun.

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Thank you all for reading this preview, and again, the combat team is continuing our focus on performance adjustments, continuing the audit process, and making individual ability adjustments to address long-standing player concerns. We look forward to having everyone playtest these changes and on the PTS next week, and reading your feedback when it launches!

actosh

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can ustart working on the PAtchnotes over the weekend so we can read them while downloading the pts?

code65536

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Rapids are very desirable too, esp. for new characters that haven't leveled up horse speed.

Wouldn't it be much easier to change the requirements for Vigor from Assault 5 to Assault 2?

AgentZenish

code65536 wrote: »

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Rapids are very desirable too, esp. for new characters that haven't leveled up horse speed.

Wouldn't it be much easier to change the requirements for Vigor from Assault 5 to Assault 2?

AGREED.

Rapids is way more desirable to my lv 10 character than Vigor. I'd much rather see the Assault Ranks changed than have Rapids locked behind Assault 5.

Nepenthe

code65536 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be much easier to change the requirements for Vigor from Assault 5 to Assault 2?

This was my first thought as well. Both abilities should be unlocked upon completion of the cyrodiil introduction quest, or *very* shortly after.

Bloodraven187

I'd like to know what we might see a better tests of the light/heavy attack change. from a practicality standpoint in the test last time the light attacks need a much smaller nerf but heavy attacks found a good spot to make HA rotations much more viable and allowed a lot more versatility in gear options. many of us are still pigeon holed into specific gear sets just to keep up. From a logical standpoiint it makes 0 sense to make and attack you put an extra amount of effort into (heavy attacks) restore your stamina or magika. Boxers use jab to conserve and recoup their stamina in real life and expend more doing the much heavier hits. Light attacks are basically the same thing as jabs in boxing. And from a resource standpoint anyone using LA rotations now wouldn't have to change anything, except since they would have literally infinite resources you would be able to dispense with sustain sets altogether and go for a second damage set, effectively giving you an even higher damage potential while taking away the need to do heavy attacks at all. Or use potions for that matter.

xaraan

code65536 wrote: »

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Rapids are very desirable too, esp. for new characters that haven't leveled up horse speed.

Wouldn't it be much easier to change the requirements for Vigor from Assault 5 to Assault 2?

THIS ^

And it also serves as a reminder of why I'm never happy when I hear them talk about balancing and improvements - because they never balance and never improve.

Jarrods32

Just please don't kill any classes this pts try buffing weak classes for a change instead of nerfing every other class down

vgabor

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Thanks, but no thanks! Rapid is much more important for my low horse speed new character then vigor. Especially because rapid is good for both magicka and stamina while vigor is stamina only.

Rake

Just move vigor to support since its healing ability anyways.
That way rapids could remain assault 2 and vigor could be support 2

BigBragg

I'm going to chime in and agree that Rapid's is initially more valuable as well as more universally valuable.

SodanTok

They probably just used different word than what they mean. Rapid is definitely more universally desirable, Vigor is the more necessary skill.

Bloodraven187

Rake wrote: »

Just move vigor to support since its healing ability anyways.
That way rapids could remain assault 2 and vigor could be support 2

While I agree with this to a degree vigor is also used for pve as well as pvp and that is a much bigger portion of the player base than the dedicated pvp'ers. They are primarily looking at the largest amount of impact, so if 80% of the base will benefit, that is the change they will make. However moving it to support is a perfectly legit workaround, so long as they move siege shield. Purge is support 2 and that is a standard support skill you need early on for both pvp and pve. Siege shield taking vigor's place makes a lot more sense as it only affects siege engines and those really only exist in pvp. So it makes more sense in assault than it does in support.

Cinbri

Please, next time you will use example for classes rebalance - use as example one of vanilla classes, i.e. thos who actually need rebalance, not p2w class.

Hexys

Just put the line of side check back on the client, this change has ruined so much and made the combat so much more rusty instead of it being nice and fluid.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

Elsonso

SodanTok wrote: »

They probably just used different word than what they mean. Rapid is definitely more universally desirable, Vigor is the more necessary skill.

My view...

Rapid is valuable in Cyrodiil, and the people who stay in Cyrodiil will get it soon enough. First or second makes little difference, in the bigger picture.

Vigor is used outside of Cyrodiil, and that makes Vigor the better one for the first slot. People chasing the PVE build-o-day can get it and leave. If they wanted to be in Cyrodiil, they would be in Cyrodiil, they would get it soon enough, and this would not be an issue.

The real answer, of course, is to move Vigor out of Assault and not have it be associated with the PVP skill lines. That would defeat the purpose of getting people to at least go there and try it out, though.

The_Auror

Can the new Kyne's Aegis sets please be looked at? Three of the four are in a terrible place and Roaring Opportunist could use some tweaks as well. Many of us would love more reasons to run the new trial.

dvonpm

Rapids is the first thing I do on every toon as soon as I hit 10. It's unbearable being so slow lol.

I mostly pvp, but no way do I want to ride a slow horse around around Cyro trying to get AP for rapids without buying tons of rep kits. Please god no lol.

I really hope vigor ends up in support. Or rapids, either way. Best option for everyone

Bucky_13

code65536 wrote: »

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Rapids are very desirable too, esp. for new characters that haven't leveled up horse speed.

Wouldn't it be much easier to change the requirements for Vigor from Assault 5 to Assault 2?

Agreed, getting Rapids is the first thing I do on characters who reach level 10. Getting Vigor is nice, I mainly play stam characters. But I always prefer to have Rapids first as it's a perfect time saver skill when discovering new locations.

While I do PvP a bit, forcing players to PvP for that skill is even worse than doing it for Vigor.

EDIT: Actually, switch place between Vigor & Siege shield and give players Vigor & Rapids after the intro Q to Cyro. Siege shields are mainly used for offensive sieges so it fits well enough in the Assault tree. Vigor is used as a defensive ability while both on the attack and defense.

ImmortalDawn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

This sounds like a bad idea. Not to say it sounds like you are trying to spare people the "experience" of PvP ("just go to Cyrodiil, get your heal skill and forget about this place"). Or that people only pvp to get that one skill, where Warhorn and Barrier are in high demand, too.
On top of that, it would mean that Rapid Maneuver would be moved somewhere else (like others mentioned), which is probably used on ALL characters - not only stamina ones - and therefore in an even higher demand.

Navarril

But.... lack of Rapids can be mitigated by the purchase of speed boosts from the Crown Store! Just get your wallets out and quit your bit.... uh "complaining."

ImmortalDawn

Navarril wrote: »

But.... lack of Rapids can be mitigated by the purchase of speed boosts from the Crown Store! Just get your wallets out and quit your bit.... uh "complaining."

Might as well just buy the whole Alliance War skill line then ^^

BigBragg

Navarril wrote: »

But.... lack of Rapids can be mitigated by the purchase of speed boosts from the Crown Store! Just get your wallets out and quit your bit.... uh "complaining."

It wouldn't surprise me, but I really hope that an accountants spreadsheet and looking for better revenue in a certain catagory isn't behind these types of choices. "We really think that this is a good product, and it's numbers need to come up to reflect that. Get it where we think it should be."

KageNin

Moar cast-times please!
Its always a pleasant surprise when your abilities don't go off or your DB vanishes into oblivion

virtus753

Can you address whether this means that toons who have unlocked Rapids but not Vigor will now find Rapids locked again until they level up Assault more?

Please think very carefully about how this will work out, and please heed the advice that's been posted above. I'm tired of losing things. I'm tired of being asked to re-grind things I've already earned. I'm tired of feeling like my time and effort have been disrespected by fundamentally unnecessary design decisions. I am all for making Vigor easier to acquire, but not at the expense of a skill that benefits all toons (not just stamina) and is widely used everywhere, both in and out of Cyro. (I say that as a stam main with only 3 magicka toons out of 18. All 18 use Rapids, but only a handful have or need Vigor.)

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

I guess incoming stam whip and sorc spammable then.

"We are also doing some class adjustments from long standing player requests and outliers"

Ragnarock41

Ah yes, necromancer buffs. We've all been desperately waiting for this.

FrancisCrawford

Bloodraven187 wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

Just move vigor to support since its healing ability anyways.
That way rapids could remain assault 2 and vigor could be support 2

While I agree with this to a degree vigor is also used for pve as well as pvp and that is a much bigger portion of the player base than the dedicated pvp'ers. They are primarily looking at the largest amount of impact, so if 80% of the base will benefit, that is the change they will make. However moving it to support is a perfectly legit workaround, so long as they move siege shield. Purge is support 2 and that is a standard support skill you need early on for both pvp and pve. Siege shield taking vigor's place makes a lot more sense as it only affects siege engines and those really only exist in pvp. So it makes more sense in assault than it does in support.

"Early on"? I've been playing since open beta and I still haven't used Purge.

count_dingo

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

I've never used this skill so it's not useful? That's some cool logic there.

nud3_voxel

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Please no. Rapids > vigor for both stam/mag. I'd rather grind a bit more for vigor than having a slow ass mount.