Update 27 Combat Preview

Elsonso

tmbrinks wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

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count_dingo wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

I've never used this skill so it's not useful? That's some cool logic there.

I don't think it is universally useful, or used, either. It would be interesting to find out from ZOS how many people actually have Rapid slotted. I only use it in Cyrodiil. It never makes the cut in my builds outside of there. I rarely see anyone using it outside of Cyrodiil. I see mainly everyone use it in Cyrodiil. My perception is that it is not used that much outside of Cyrodiil.

All 36 characters of mine have it slotted when doing writs.

95%+ of the time I'm doing overland content, I have rapids on my bar to run from place to place.

Only time I don't have it slotted is when I'm doing Dungeons/Trials/BGs

Hmm. Ok.

I see people farming. I have been known to hunt bots, so I definitely see people farming. Most of the farmers I see are not using Rapid. That is hardly a global statement, so keep that in mind. I can only speak to what I observe.

My guess is that they want something that is always on, rather than something they have to recast every few seconds. Personally, I use gear for speed, so I am liking the new Wild Hunt ring.

tmbrinks

Elsonso wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

count_dingo wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

I've never used this skill so it's not useful? That's some cool logic there.

I don't think it is universally useful, or used, either. It would be interesting to find out from ZOS how many people actually have Rapid slotted. I only use it in Cyrodiil. It never makes the cut in my builds outside of there. I rarely see anyone using it outside of Cyrodiil. I see mainly everyone use it in Cyrodiil. My perception is that it is not used that much outside of Cyrodiil.

All 36 characters of mine have it slotted when doing writs.

95%+ of the time I'm doing overland content, I have rapids on my bar to run from place to place.

Only time I don't have it slotted is when I'm doing Dungeons/Trials/BGs

Hmm. Ok.

I see people farming. I have been known to hunt bots, so I definitely see people farming. Most of the farmers I see are not using Rapid. That is hardly a global statement, so keep that in mind. I can only speak to what I observe.

My guess is that they want something that is always on, rather than something they have to recast every few seconds. Personally, I use gear for speed, so I am liking the new Wild Hunt ring.

Wild Hunt Ring is great for farming... as you don't really mount when farming, I have it on my survey collecting/mat farming character

But, when doing Psijic Order leveling yesterday, Rapids are an absolute life-saver to get from one Time Rift to another. Leveling Mage's Guild? life-saver.

On the other side, Wild Hunt ring is going to take you hours (tens of hours?) of farming to get all 5 leads to put together the lead. Now, if the change happens as we think, you're going to have to do the grind for rapids.

Apox

code65536 wrote: »

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Rapids are very desirable too, esp. for new characters that haven't leveled up horse speed.

Wouldn't it be much easier to change the requirements for Vigor from Assault 5 to Assault 2?

agreed. the first thing i do on all my characters at 10 is go do the intro to cyrodiil so i can get rapids and a couple skill points. moving vigor to first slot and rapids to second isnt going to help.

just reduce the requirement of vigor to assault 3. its still incredibly easy to get assault 3, i think its maybe just a single bg? 7300 alliance points

rapids is an essentially free +30% mount speed for 30 seconds buff. if youre on pc, using the assist rapids riding addon will automatically slot rapids and reslot the old spell after youve cast rapids. you cant understate how valuable it is to have it. the only people i see that arent bothered by this are people on console who cant use the addon or people who dont know about the addon/dont use addons.

purge is also an essential spell to have for healers. certain trials like vhof or vmol have fights where its a required spell or people die. if youve never used it, thats fine. its really only useful on healers since it has such a high magicka cost, but saying it isnt essential is wrong.

SentientFlesh

Totally agree with the sentiment here. Vigor is not a skill that a PvE player needs right at lvl 10, or right when they go into Cyrodiil. For PvE it is a pretty necessary stam heal for end game content, PvPers will get it soon enough by virtue of doing PvP.

Rapid on the other hand is incredibly useful for a new character with little/no mount speed, and on a char with full mount speed too!

Vigor is a powerful burst heal, why should it be handed out for "just doing the Cyrodiil intro quest". There is plenty of time to do BGs or other PvP between lvl 10-CP160.

While we're at it let's just make Meteor mages guild lvl 1 too so once you talk to Shalidor you get it because it's so important to mag builds.

With all these changes, remember the reason people stay playing ESO is BECAUSE there are skills, gear, and goals to work towards. I don't want everything just handed to me. I had to grind some PvP on my Stam chars to get Vigor and guess what? In the meantime I learned how to play that class a lot better.

With all the other skill choices and builds to explore, a low lvl character will get more use from Rapid than Vigor. This change seems to assume that every character is going for meta build from lvl 10.

Apox

Rake wrote: »

Just move vigor to support since its healing ability anyways.
That way rapids could remain assault 2 and vigor could be support 2

itd also be nice if they made its heal scale off max stat similar to how ritual of ret scales off max stat for templar and is used by stamplar. it can still cost stamina but itd be nice to have as a workable heal for magicka classes that dont have access to a good hot. i recently levelled my magden and despite having an entire tree dedicated to healing, there were no single good options for my magden. i ended up having to slot vines + lotus to survive skyreach pulls without having to spam heals on myself. magden has strong st heals but no good option for a hot like magplar, magsorc, magblade, or even magdk with inhale/fiery claws

Frankieluv14

If you don’t use the Rapid Riding Assist addon rapids might not seem as helpful, which is understandable. It takes up a combat slot space that you have to switch out, yadda, yadda why would I do that? That sort of thinking. Personally I would rather farm for vigor than for rapids since in the 4.5 years I’ve been playing horse simulator is just as boring as it’s always been. Can you imagine the pain of horse simulator, farming enough AP to reach level five? The AP farmers are going to have a field day. It’ll be like shooting fish in a barrel. 😱

Dojohoda

Wow it is time for new things already?

Hotdog_23

They did not say we where not getting rapids at level 2 also. Only that vigor is moving up maybe we get both at level 2.

SlimeBro1

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone! Today, we’d like to present what we’re focusing on regarding combat changes for Update 27. As always, be aware these are just the current proposed adjustments and are subject to change during the upcoming PTS cycle. With the ongoing focus on overall server/client performance for combat, we are continuing the audit on item sets. For this round, we are continuing the item set adjustments we started in Update 26, and as you’ve come to expect with DLCs, there will also be several new sets to acquire from the new dungeons.

We are also doing some class adjustments from long standing player requests and outliers. As a reminder, we are currently addressing class abilities on a singular basis and not as a whole package just yet. This means larger Class reworks are not in the cards in this update, but other adjustments will be made to help with server/client performance and functionality that may be missing in various class kits.

Performance:

Last year, we started the process of adjusting abilities to be more performant on the server/client and ensuring they follow standards to eliminate over or under performing situations. In U26, we applied standards and these performance adjustments to Monster Helms and Arena Weapons. In U27, we are continuingthat long process by conforming most of the remaining item sets. As an example of performance adjustments, many “proc chances” are being removed and will now apply on specific triggers with a timer. As such, to have the ability conform to standards, the effect of that proc will be adjusted to be stronger or weaker depending on the timer and trigger condition.
Below are a couple examples of some item sets we plan to adjust with these goals in mind:

• Performance-related example
  • Trial By Fire: This set will no longer grant Resistances to a unique type of damage category, such as Flame or Poison, for a short duration after being hit. Instead, it will grant your Armor while under the effects of any Elemental Status Effect, such as Burning or Poisoned.
• Standardization-related example
  • Armor of the Veiled Heritance: This set will grant 516 Weapon Damage after interrupting a target, up from 400. This set will also permanently increase the damage of your Bash attacks by 516.

These types of changes will be retroactive, and you won’t need to re-farm gear for these adjustments.

Classes & Skills:

Each Class will be receiving some minor adjustments based on the need for performance adjustments, feedback received, or emergent concerns over the past year. This includes adjustments to active abilities and passives, in certain cases. Again, these are not whole sale changes to an entire skill line when it comes to Class adjustments, only individual abilities.
A good example of this is the adjustments being made to the Necromancer skill Grave Grasp. Currently, this skill shot isn’t seen as very useful and is the least used ability in the Necromancer kit. We are adjusting the ability to be more performant with a slight change in functionality so it will still use 3 areas, but each area will have escalating values of crowd control starting from snare to stun.

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Thank you all for reading this preview, and again, the combat team is continuing our focus on performance adjustments, continuing the audit process, and making individual ability adjustments to address long-standing player concerns. We look forward to having everyone playtest these changes and on the PTS next week, and reading your feedback when it launches!

Hopefully one of them is giving vampire the bat swarm gap closer I've seen many people request!

Tommy_The_Gun

I hope they will buff "something base game", that is underperforming. I really do. Don't fail me ZOS... I am counting on you, and feedback I and many other people gave to you.

Keledus

No offense, but putting rapid manouver on vigor's spot is a bad decision.

Put Vigor on second slot, rapid manouver is more important for new players because mount speed is horrible.

shadowsandshorelines

@ZOS_GinaBruno Are we going to see any changes to skills such as Bone Shield? Many would like to see a morph scale off of max stamina rather than all three versions of the skill scaling off health. This would allow stam-based characters an actual damage shield skill that doesn't require the use of Brawler 2H skill. This change was made in a PTS years ago, but never made it to Live servers!

Many (Including myself very much) would like to see more love given to stamina-based playstyles in ways of Sorcerer Class Abilities as well. As of right now i think there is a total of 3 Stamina Morphs across the three skill-lines. That just is not enough!

YandereGirlfriend

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ah yes, necromancer buffs. We've all been desperately waiting for this.

To be fair, that skill is total garb at the moment and that's not great to have such a black hole of uselessness on any skill for any class.

Do other classes need buffs more urgently, yes. But GG definitely needed improvement.

Ragnarock41

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ah yes, necromancer buffs. We've all been desperately waiting for this.

To be fair, that skill is total garb at the moment and that's not great to have such a black hole of uselessness on any skill for any class.

Do other classes need buffs more urgently, yes. But GG definitely needed improvement.

The key word here is ''priorities''. I'm not against improving certain abilities, quite the opposite I always pushed for improving abilities that are not popular. But their focus seems to be refining necromancer and ignoring base classes which makes for a poor impression, killing my already low hype for the next DLC.

Hurbster

Pop vigour in support - makes sense.

I think half the lag problem would be solved by giving our PC's back the line of sight stuff and stop that from being server-side.

redgreensunset

Frankieluv14 wrote: »

If you don’t use the Rapid Riding Assist addon rapids might not seem as helpful, which is understandable. It takes up a combat slot space that you have to switch out, yadda, yadda why would I do that? That sort of thinking. Personally I would rather farm for vigor than for rapids since in the 4.5 years I’ve been playing horse simulator is just as boring as it’s always been. Can you imagine the pain of horse simulator, farming enough AP to reach level five? The AP farmers are going to have a field day. It’ll be like shooting fish in a barrel. 😱

Which you know two out of three platforms don't use, plus assorted PC players.

Personally I'd much rather have Vigor early than Rapids, but that's my onion.

SshadowSscale

actosh wrote: »

So dk gets his Stam whip?
Magsorc gets sta/magspamable?
Nb gets purge back and speedbuff on a useful skill?

Wonder what the classrework in the future will bring.

Being optimistic I see... If the last 2 yeae has told me anything it is telling me that nbd will be nerfed again.... Seems the zos way of doing things

Strider__Roshin

Unless they remove cast times from instant cast Ultimates like incap I could really care less.

Ragnarock41

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Unless they remove cast times from instant cast Ultimates like incap I could really care less.

I think that ship has sailed many moons ago.

Dracane

Is nobody concerned about the "outliers" part of this text?
This screams more streamlining to me and like the last special and unique abilities being burned down.

Class request sounds good, although Necromancer is probably the least in need of such care. Nightblade, Dragonknight and Sorcerer should be the main priority here. But this outliers phrase concerns me too much.

WrathOfInnos

Can we have some hints at which sets and skills made the list? Monday is too far away

Personally, I’d love to see the 4 Kyne’s Aegis sets reworked, with RO being the highest priority. Hoping to see an adjustment to the Asylum Destruction Staff, and maybe also the BRP Destruction Staff (needs instant damage, not a DoT that gets overwritten constantly and never ticks). Perfected Maelstrom Inferno should give something other than Spell Pen, anything else would be fine.

For skills the highest priority is to fix Mystic Siphon so that it actually casts in trials. Liquid Lightning / Lightning Flood are still missing their final tick of damage and may be underperforming even with another tick (would need to test). There should also be some adjustments either to Blood for Blood (down) or various class skills (up). There’s no reason the vamp spammable should be outperforming skills like Deep Fissure, Crystal Frags, several DoTs, Endless Fury, and Molten Whip. Hitting the same skill over and over again on every class does not make for a fun game, classes should be able to use their unique skills and rotations without losing damage.

Thanks!

Edit: Grundwulf and Thrassian Stranglers could also use some adjustment, but I have a separate discussion for each of those in-depth so no need to clutter this one.

Strider__Roshin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Unless they remove cast times from instant cast Ultimates like incap I could really care less.

I think that ship has sailed many moons ago.

No problem. I'll just keep playing other games like I've been doing for the past year.

Elsonso

Dracane wrote: »

Is nobody concerned about the "outliers" part of this text?
This screams more streamlining to me and like the last special and unique abilities being burned down.

Concerned about them homogenizing things so that everything is the same but different, with some pointless and cosmetic "flavor" to it? ("This skill has a blue flame instead of a yellow flame! Hype!!!!") Yes. I think that ship sailed and is over the horizon, though.

Revokus

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ah yes, necromancer buffs. We've all been desperately waiting for this.

To be fair, that skill is total garb at the moment and that's not great to have such a black hole of uselessness on any skill for any class.

Do other classes need buffs more urgently, yes. But GG definitely needed improvement.

Yes and hopefully the patch will now spawn under each other at the same spot.

Otherwise it will still be bad if they keep the old travel time speed because if spawning at one location the target has plenty of time to move out of the circle before it stuns..It will still be bad compared to other classes stuns.

Beffagorn

Nevermind skills like Hardened Armor or Igneous shield that give less than 1k shield in PvP, better immediatly rush to the aid of poor p2w necro. KEKW

Seriously. I hope there's a LOT of improvements to all classes and not just the p2w duo.

Revokus

Beffagorn wrote: »

Nevermind skills like Hardened Armor or Igneous shield that give less than 1k shield in PvP, better immediatly rush to the aid of poor p2w necro. KEKW

Seriously. I hope there's a LOT of improvements to all classes and not just the p2w duo.

StamDK>Magnecro so StamDK is P2W KEK

What this game need to is bring the lowest performing spec(magnecro,magblade etc) to the level of mag sorc and almost every stam spec in the game in pvp and yes StamDK is still one of the strong specs.

You people crying for your vanilla classes to be buffed when they are already strong is hilarious...It's giving wrong feedback and the reason Devs don't listen to you and why balance is so lopsided in this game.

alcolol

lol the day after ZOS announce they're considering making Rapids harder to obtain, I log on and see this:



It's not even on sale or anything, it's just... there. Pretty grim message to be sending.

FrancisCrawford

Elsonso wrote: »

.

count_dingo wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

I've never used this skill so it's not useful? That's some cool logic there.

I don't think it is universally useful, or used, either. It would be interesting to find out from ZOS how many people actually have Rapid slotted. I only use it in Cyrodiil. It never makes the cut in my builds outside of there. I rarely see anyone using it outside of Cyrodiil. I see mainly everyone use it in Cyrodiil. My perception is that it is not used that much outside of Cyrodiil.

Some of us hunt skyshards, do quests, grind dolmens, do crafting writs, etc., etc. For us, Rapid Maneuvers is a major QoL boon.

FrancisCrawford

Frankieluv14 wrote: »

If you don’t use the Rapid Riding Assist addon rapids might not seem as helpful, which is understandable. It takes up a combat slot space that you have to switch out, yadda, yadda why would I do that? That sort of thinking. Personally I would rather farm for vigor than for rapids since in the 4.5 years I’ve been playing horse simulator is just as boring as it’s always been. Can you imagine the pain of horse simulator, farming enough AP to reach level five? The AP farmers are going to have a field day. It’ll be like shooting fish in a barrel. 😱

Especially since the farming would be without Rapids.

Had this change been in place in the past, I'd probably have leveled many fewer characters than I actually have.

Dracane

Revokus wrote: »

Beffagorn wrote: »

Nevermind skills like Hardened Armor or Igneous shield that give less than 1k shield in PvP, better immediatly rush to the aid of poor p2w necro. KEKW

Seriously. I hope there's a LOT of improvements to all classes and not just the p2w duo.

StamDK>Magnecro so StamDK is P2W KEK

What this game need to is bring the lowest performing spec(magnecro,magblade etc) to the level of mag sorc and almost every stam spec in the game in pvp and yes StamDK is still one of the strong specs.

You people crying for your vanilla classes to be buffed when they are already strong is hilarious...It's giving wrong feedback and the reason Devs don't listen to you and why balance is so lopsided in this game.

To the level of Magsorc? So you mean not making them better at all?
All magicka specs are pretty much in the same boat compared to stamina specs, with the only exception for me being magicka templar. Coming to the level of Magsorc means suffering class shattering nerfs every second patch. I would advise against wishing this.