Update 27 Combat Preview

Dracane

Wodensbeard wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wodensbeard wrote: »

Moving rapids further away up the assault tree will mean that lower level characters will be missing out of AP from their group captures and as well as forcing them to linger behind the group without a babysitter.

I play all aspects of the game to some degree and often bring inexperienced players into new aspects with me so they don't feel completely overwhelmed.This past event I brought 3 players who were new to Cyrodiil into the 7 day campaigns and they had a blast capturing and defending. We started to lose members when they were lagging behind and got wiped by yet another stealthed gankblade time and time again only to have to respawn even further from the group and miss the captures.

It's easy enough to get vigor if you can keep up, but making a change that forces Non-PVP speced characters to be innately slower than their experienced counterparts is just going to hinder newer and less experienced players.

For those Wanting to swap vigor for siege shield, that would also have to overhaul the Meritorious Service set, otherwise every small man group will have an extra 3010 resistance essentially permanently.

That’s already achievable with purge. IMO it doesn’t really matter if Vigor can also proc Meritorious, just gives another option.

Purge is almost 3x as expensive as vigor... plus vigor can be a group HOT, draws from stam, and is already slotted in over half the stam builds out there. A healer wearing this with a 14k stam pool can proc it 3x with vigor and still sprint or dodge roll and have a full magica pool to heal or buff.

I have yet to encounter a stamina player that does not use Vigor. Saying only half of them use it, seems like a heavy understatement to me.

Coolio_Wolfus

Regarding Rapids, there is an addon that swaps out a skill for this when mounted.
It does mean it's not on the bar 100% of the time, but unless rapids gets it's own skill slot, it's the best we get.
And yes I agree with having rapids & vigor unlocked as a welcome to cyro reward.

maddiniiLuna

When in Cyrodiil i get Snared - Roll dodge, Stunned - Break free (x2 because it laggs), then slowed, then immediately snared. CC is like my daily breakfast in Cyrodiil.

Eso's response: Let's change the skills to add more CC to the game, which is useless in PvE and OP in PvP. Does nobody see the issue with this?

reiji23

Dracane wrote: »

Wodensbeard wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Wodensbeard wrote: »

Moving rapids further away up the assault tree will mean that lower level characters will be missing out of AP from their group captures and as well as forcing them to linger behind the group without a babysitter.

I play all aspects of the game to some degree and often bring inexperienced players into new aspects with me so they don't feel completely overwhelmed.This past event I brought 3 players who were new to Cyrodiil into the 7 day campaigns and they had a blast capturing and defending. We started to lose members when they were lagging behind and got wiped by yet another stealthed gankblade time and time again only to have to respawn even further from the group and miss the captures.

It's easy enough to get vigor if you can keep up, but making a change that forces Non-PVP speced characters to be innately slower than their experienced counterparts is just going to hinder newer and less experienced players.

For those Wanting to swap vigor for siege shield, that would also have to overhaul the Meritorious Service set, otherwise every small man group will have an extra 3010 resistance essentially permanently.

That’s already achievable with purge. IMO it doesn’t really matter if Vigor can also proc Meritorious, just gives another option.

Purge is almost 3x as expensive as vigor... plus vigor can be a group HOT, draws from stam, and is already slotted in over half the stam builds out there. A healer wearing this with a 14k stam pool can proc it 3x with vigor and still sprint or dodge roll and have a full magica pool to heal or buff.

I have yet to encounter a stamina player that does not use Vigor. Saying only half of them use it, seems like a heavy understatement to me.

I played a Stamblade from the start till 600 CP without bothering with Vigor. I just didn't care enough to farm for a skill which I could use something else to replace it with. Rapid Maneuver however is the only source of Major Gallop in the game.

NinchiTV

WISH LIST:

NECRO

1. Skel mage and archer on necro needs additional effect, be it a debuff or buff. Its just very lack luster.
2. Mystic siphon should return a bit more magic and maybe add a cost to it (1xxs range like templar's rune)
3. Empowering grasp should buff the pets automatically.
4. Ghostly embrace would be really awesome if it grab the target from range and made an AOE around them that immobilize people around them, it would also probably help blastbones hit its target easier.
5. Resist flesh minor defile should do 10%, its making it really difficult to use it for one use and you end up spamming like 3 times trying to get your health back up.
6. Intense Mender should put the caster as priority heal, I swear that little guy would rather help some guy in a distance with more HP than help save me. And even then I feel like its just not as reliable as guardian, just me?
7. Mortal coil should restore a bit more stam (ref #2)

VAMPIRE

1. Mesmerize should be a more reliable stun. I figure its based on your target's cross-hair placement? And the invisible cone of view from the front of the character needs to be on you for mesmerize to work, thing is I find it not working half the time even though the guy is right in my face and maybe has his cross hair off me or to the side so it doesnt work. I think as long as the enemy's face is facing you it should stun.
2. Mist form needs to operate like it did before, with a 100% chance of working. Right now you use it and it goes through the animation and nothing happens, so you use it again to actually go in mist form. Maybe it happens because its taking off the snare or stun 1st rather than doing both simultaneously.
3. The cons out way the pros of vamp, I think this would be more appropriate
Health Recovery: 10% - 20% - 30% - 40% (having no health recov is just too much on top of the healing nerfs)
Flame damage taken 5% - 7% - 10% - 15% (we should at least have a chance to fight a magDK, as of now I will not engage)
Regular cost abilities 2% - 4% - 6% - 8% (being forced to use cost reduction is a major turn off, and lore wise...why?
Vampire cost abilities 5% - 10% - 15% - 20% (or stay the same, not that big of a deal.)
If you guys moved vampire in this direction I think you will have very happy vampires.

Karmanorway

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone! Today, we’d like to present what we’re focusing on regarding combat changes for Update 27. As always, be aware these are just the current proposed adjustments and are subject to change during the upcoming PTS cycle. With the ongoing focus on overall server/client performance for combat, we are continuing the audit on item sets. For this round, we are continuing the item set adjustments we started in Update 26, and as you’ve come to expect with DLCs, there will also be several new sets to acquire from the new dungeons.

We are also doing some class adjustments from long standing player requests and outliers. As a reminder, we are currently addressing class abilities on a singular basis and not as a whole package just yet. This means larger Class reworks are not in the cards in this update, but other adjustments will be made to help with server/client performance and functionality that may be missing in various class kits.

Performance:

Last year, we started the process of adjusting abilities to be more performant on the server/client and ensuring they follow standards to eliminate over or under performing situations. In U26, we applied standards and these performance adjustments to Monster Helms and Arena Weapons. In U27, we are continuingthat long process by conforming most of the remaining item sets. As an example of performance adjustments, many “proc chances” are being removed and will now apply on specific triggers with a timer. As such, to have the ability conform to standards, the effect of that proc will be adjusted to be stronger or weaker depending on the timer and trigger condition.
Below are a couple examples of some item sets we plan to adjust with these goals in mind:

• Performance-related example
  • Trial By Fire: This set will no longer grant Resistances to a unique type of damage category, such as Flame or Poison, for a short duration after being hit. Instead, it will grant your Armor while under the effects of any Elemental Status Effect, such as Burning or Poisoned.
• Standardization-related example
  • Armor of the Veiled Heritance: This set will grant 516 Weapon Damage after interrupting a target, up from 400. This set will also permanently increase the damage of your Bash attacks by 516.

These types of changes will be retroactive, and you won’t need to re-farm gear for these adjustments.

Classes & Skills:

Each Class will be receiving some minor adjustments based on the need for performance adjustments, feedback received, or emergent concerns over the past year. This includes adjustments to active abilities and passives, in certain cases. Again, these are not whole sale changes to an entire skill line when it comes to Class adjustments, only individual abilities.
A good example of this is the adjustments being made to the Necromancer skill Grave Grasp. Currently, this skill shot isn’t seen as very useful and is the least used ability in the Necromancer kit. We are adjusting the ability to be more performant with a slight change in functionality so it will still use 3 areas, but each area will have escalating values of crowd control starting from snare to stun.

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Thank you all for reading this preview, and again, the combat team is continuing our focus on performance adjustments, continuing the audit process, and making individual ability adjustments to address long-standing player concerns. We look forward to having everyone playtest these changes and on the PTS next week, and reading your feedback when it launches!

Dont forget Stamina Sorcerer this time 90% of their class kit is magsorc biased...

Major_Lag

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Are there any plans to address the issue with break-free cost being charged multiple times in a row in certain circumstances?

The highest overcharge I've seen so far was 4x, that took me from about 20k stamina down to nearly 0 (on a magicka build, no less!) - needless to say, that makes combat a complete joke when it happens.

JayKwellen

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Classes & Skills:

Each Class will be receiving some minor adjustments based on the need for performance adjustments, feedback received, or emergent concerns over the past year. This includes adjustments to active abilities and passives, in certain cases. Again, these are not whole sale changes to an entire skill line when it comes to Class adjustments, only individual abilities.

Hey @ZOS_GinaBruno,

At the moment the entire (non-bomber) magblade class is in a rather emergent state of ill performance in PvP. Other than shade, I'm pretty sure I could likely make the case for how every single magblade ability is emergently in need of adjustment.

I'm actually not even being hyperbolic or sarcastic for once either, I really do literally mean than almost every magblade active ability is in a poor state for one reason or another, both in a vacuum and in relation to other classes.

While I do personally enjoy the feeling of being the underdog in literally every single engagement I'm ever in, it would still be nice to at least once feel as if I'm playing the same game as everyone else.

Qbiken

Hexys wrote: »

Just put the line of side check back on the client, this change has ruined so much and made the combat so much more rusty instead of it being nice and fluid.

Can't stress how much of a pain PvP has been since this was changed. The amount of "target out of range" and position desyncs happening since Harrowstorm has been ridiculous. Take the advice above and move it back to the client side.

Firstmep

Ventru7 wrote: »

I hope this update has some buffs to unused healer classes. Both in pve and pvp really only Templar and Wardens are used.

In bgs nightblade healers are not uncommon and some sorc healers are out there as well, after matriarch is the biggest burst heal in the game.

Monops

While I can appreciate the appeal of an easily accessible Stamina heal, Rapids is a far more valuable skill to me than Vigor, so I'll add my voice to the chorus of those who find this change less than desirable. I've seen several reasonable suggestions here though, so I hope the developers will entertain other options.

Given how integral both of these skills are to general gameplay (both PVE and PVP), I do find it odd that they continue to be locked behind a PVP skill line.

sentientomega

As someone who both plays on PC and doesn't use Rapid Manoeuvre, I welcome the news that Vigour is, so far, to be as easily obtained as I've wished it was pretty much since I first started investigating stamina builds. Indeed, it must surely be among the best news I've had all year regarding this game, possibly even the just over four years I've played ESO.

Vigour is critical, simply because magicka healing options are quite plentiful (restoration staff skills and more than a few class skills, for example), stamina builds are inherently disadvantaged by this, and if you're looking to go solo (hell, sometimes even if you're not), good quality self-healing is absolutely imperative.

I've got patience, I don't mind virtually trotting from place to place, I get to take in all that gorgeous terrain! But I understand that many do not, I get that the ability is critical for mobility.

I think a little reshuffling could work. replace Vigour's spot with Siege Shield which, as someone already pointed out, has mostly offensive uses inasmuch as it can protect siege weapons with the appropriate morph, and I get, thus being unlocked at Assault 5. Now, leave Rapids as is, and move Vigour to Support 2 (I, too, would like to know the rationale behind making this one an Assault ability).

Would there be any great objection to Siege Shields requiring such a lot more AP to obtain? There are literally no PvE implications for this ability, as I've understood from reading it and its morphs' tooltips.

Lapin_Logic

vgabor wrote: »

Thanks, but no thanks! Rapid is much more important for my low horse speed new character then vigor. Especially because rapid is good for both magicka and stamina while vigor is stamina only.

Rapids does more or less nothing for you in Battlegrounds, Vigor is important for all stam toons in PvP and PVE, Rapids will get your low level, low speed, low stamina mount to the front line on double quick time at the head of the pack for you to get slaughtered first in the line because you have no heal and have run out of range of the zerg heal bot.

But essentially another post hit it on the head with make rapids Support 2 and Vigor assault 2, at least tanks have a less miserable life off the bat while grinding for warhorn

Obsidian3

Taking away a skill I have had for six years on all of my toons is ridiculous It's down right insulting for any of us to have grind for hours to get a skill back we have had for six years. THIS IS DISGUSTING!!

Scrollup

JUST GET RID OF MOUNT Speed Training and make all mounts by default 60 Speed for humanity SAKE.

Banana

Scrollup wrote: »

JUST GET RID OF MOUNT Speed Training and make all mounts by default 60 Speed for humanity SAKE.

This person needs to be hired zos

UrbanMonk

Why do we even need to train mounts? For 180 days...costs 45k X 10 base toons 450k gold.
Or is it another ploy to boost crown mount training sales and upcoming duo mount.
In any case, not unlocking rapids on a new toon is pretty much Crap. No one needs vigor at that lvl.
And for those who complain about grinding PvP for vigor, don't get me started on Undaunted.

As of now the only compromise acceptable is to replace siege shield with rapids if vigor gets moved. FFS it used to be 4 times hard to get vigor.

JoeCapricorn

Please make Rapid Maneuver easy to get again. I need it for all of my characters, including the mules that do not use weapons and only do crafting. Please give Rapid Maneuver back to us!

ArcTRex

Now why on earth, would you take away rapid maneuver from us, because that is what you effectivly have done. I know i can level my char up, but seriously, i hate pvp. I only play this game for pve.

I have 10 US chars, and 12 EU chars, all of which i have used rapid maneuver the instant it was possible. And now this...
I seriously can´t see myself leveling 22 chars up, in pvp. No way. And missing out on rapid maneuver for future gaming, is so demotivating, i might as well give up on this game, and quit it.

Do you know how much money i have used on this game? It´s ridiculous. We are being ridiculed.

Sergykid

seriously, getting the first two spells in the pvp skill line is like 1% of your total gameplay. Why aren't you guys more vocal about other important problems such as balance