Update 27 Combat Preview

Elsonso

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count_dingo wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

I've never used this skill so it's not useful? That's some cool logic there.

I don't think it is universally useful, or used, either. It would be interesting to find out from ZOS how many people actually have Rapid slotted. I only use it in Cyrodiil. It never makes the cut in my builds outside of there. I rarely see anyone using it outside of Cyrodiil. I see mainly everyone use it in Cyrodiil. My perception is that it is not used that much outside of Cyrodiil.

technohic

Uhhhg Theres not enough details here to get upset or excited IMO but I still have dread. If you are going to fix performance; great! But that's not what we have seen and its getting tiring.

relentless_turnip

I would like to see momentum moved from 2H to alliance or fighters guild skill line, i think this would make other weapon skill lines as desirable.

OldManJim

So does this mean we'll have to do PvP to get rapids? If so, that really sucks. I have characters who are geared towards crafting & material collection that use rapids all the time. They're not PvP characters..

And what happens to those who currently have rapids? Do we lose access to it?

Nemesis7884

I am not sure I understand the idea behind the process to make some minor changes now and then in a year from now completely overhaul classes again...it just seems zos is doing twice the work just to create the same problem of larges changes again that might irritate players again...but I guess its a problem of limited resources.

What I think is really good is that
a) they are looking at long term player requests and b) they are trying to make not used skills more interesting

Hotdog_23

Glad to see vigor moving to the first skill in assault skill line. Personally, I have it already on all my characters but new players this will help them a lot. Always wanted it moved to the fighter’s guild line, but this is close enough. Thanks for the change.

As a console players and the changes to a lot of sets being changed “many “proc chances” are being removed and will now apply on specific triggers with a timer.” Please give us a way to track these timers. We really need a way to track our buffs and timers. Visual effects are not always easy to see.

Be safe and have fun

Sordidfairytale

Remove Rapids from the PVP skill line entirely, make it a World Skill unlocked by visiting a stablemaster.

actosh

So dk gets his Stam whip?
Magsorc gets sta/magspamable?
Nb gets purge back and speedbuff on a useful skill?

Wonder what the classrework in the future will bring.

alcolol

As someone who started out on a stam character doing solo content for a long time before I started on any PvP or group PvE, I don't even see why Vigor would need to be moved at all. What kinds of content are people doing that they need heals for while explicitly being unable to use resto or class ability heals or grouping up with a healer? The concept of "healing but somehow it costs stamina instead" seems a bit of an oddball one to begin with, and it's certainly nice to have now that I do dungeons and so on (it's obviously handy for Maelstrom Arena with stamina) but I have no problem with it needing to be earned. If it is to be made easier I have no problem with that either (surely I'd end up taking advantage of that on a new character at some point myself), but I do have a big problem with ruining Rapids which is essential to get on every single new character as soon as possible.

If the issue is that Vigor shouldn't require PvP to obtain, why stop there? Why should we need to:

• burn through a big pile of alchemy materials to get Medicinal Use?
• run dungeons to get Energy Orb?
• do the main quest to get Soul Lock?
• steal and fence a bunch of stuff to get Locksmith?
• grind antiquities to get Keen Eye: Treasure Chests?
• steal a bunch of books to get Equilibrium?
• do the entire Psijic Order questline to get... I don't even know what abilities because I've never gone that far.

This_0ne

Vigor must be deserved! I am doing quest in this game most of my time. When my char comes 10 i go Cyro and get Rapid to move faster not only in Cyro, but all over Tamriel! No problem getting healing from other sources! [snip]

[Edited to removed Inappropriate Content]

Dusk_Coven

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

A welcome change that helps players who want nothing to do with open world PvP. Thank you.

Dusk_Coven

Elsonso wrote: »

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count_dingo wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

I've never used this skill so it's not useful? That's some cool logic there.

I don't think it is universally useful, or used, either. It would be interesting to find out from ZOS how many people actually have Rapid slotted. I only use it in Cyrodiil. It never makes the cut in my builds outside of there. I rarely see anyone using it outside of Cyrodiil. I see mainly everyone use it in Cyrodiil. My perception is that it is not used that much outside of Cyrodiil.

Everywhere else other than the empty space of Cyrodiil you are more likely to stop for a gathering node or some other reason.
Even in Cyrodiil, it's a group skill so not everyone has to slot it. It'd be interesting to see how many people on Console slot it regularly given that skill bar changes can be tedious especially when you might want to get more combat ready when you finally get to the action. (Compared to PC where you can use all sorts of addons, including riding-specific ones.)

Definitely putting Vigor up top helps way more people, not just PvE but PvPers who want to get into the action right away but not necessarily Cyrodiil (e.g., Battlegrounds).

Ishtarknows

Rapids is a necessary skill for both pvp and pve too. Please don't make it harder to get.

Grinding AP for rapids in Cyrodiil on a slow mount will be even more torturous than grinding for vigor.

SmukkeHeks

All I’m hoping is the bit with the passives.

Are we doing a wrong right again?

Cinbri

So whats going on with plans to overhaul light/heavy attacks? Is it still going through phase of rebalancing or will be implmented in U27?

Integral1900

As a pve player rapids has no use to me, I can be plenty fast enough as it is. But vigorous from just doing the training bit...HELL YES

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

😇

olsborg

Hexys wrote: »

Just put the line of side check back on the client, this change has ruined so much and made the combat so much more rusty instead of it being nice and fluid.

Yes. LOS(to-hit) check now ruined combat for me completely, its too clunky and even with just slight lagg combat becomes completely unenjoyable/unplayable. I dont even play anymore atm.

Jayroo

can we address how easy, unrewarding and general waste of time pve is (thats not dungeon/trials). As a game based around story telling, shouldn't we be encouraged to explore and do quests? If not rewarding, at the very least challenging? The antiquities were a good start, but I think questing and exploration just in general could be looked at itself as opposed to added to for just once.

Ragnaroek93

Please nerf impen in PvP. The amount of crit def which people are running around is ridiculous and basically destroys every burst builds and enforces an unhealthy Malacath ring + proc set meta.

Please also consider to unprun the classes similar to Shadowlands. I'm pretty sure that you'll make a lot of people very happy if you just give our beloved classes our toolkits back.

Niaver

Jayroo wrote: »

can we address how easy, unrewarding and general waste of time pve is (thats not dungeon/trials). As a game based around story telling, shouldn't we be encouraged to explore and do quests? If not rewarding, at the very least challenging? The antiquities were a good start, but I think questing and exploration just in general could be looked at itself as opposed to added to for just once.

I'm afraid they want you to be able to do quests with pressing one button. I love questing and exploring, and hate that it is so boringly easy in this game.

mitchtheelder

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone! Today, we’d like to present what we’re focusing on regarding combat changes for Update 27. As always, be aware these are just the current proposed adjustments and are subject to change during the upcoming PTS cycle. With the ongoing focus on overall server/client performance for combat, we are continuing the audit on item sets. For this round, we are continuing the item set adjustments we started in Update 26, and as you’ve come to expect with DLCs, there will also be several new sets to acquire from the new dungeons.

We are also doing some class adjustments from long standing player requests and outliers. As a reminder, we are currently addressing class abilities on a singular basis and not as a whole package just yet. This means larger Class reworks are not in the cards in this update, but other adjustments will be made to help with server/client performance and functionality that may be missing in various class kits.

Performance:

Last year, we started the process of adjusting abilities to be more performant on the server/client and ensuring they follow standards to eliminate over or under performing situations. In U26, we applied standards and these performance adjustments to Monster Helms and Arena Weapons. In U27, we are continuingthat long process by conforming most of the remaining item sets. As an example of performance adjustments, many “proc chances” are being removed and will now apply on specific triggers with a timer. As such, to have the ability conform to standards, the effect of that proc will be adjusted to be stronger or weaker depending on the timer and trigger condition.
Below are a couple examples of some item sets we plan to adjust with these goals in mind:

• Performance-related example
  • Trial By Fire: This set will no longer grant Resistances to a unique type of damage category, such as Flame or Poison, for a short duration after being hit. Instead, it will grant your Armor while under the effects of any Elemental Status Effect, such as Burning or Poisoned.
• Standardization-related example
  • Armor of the Veiled Heritance: This set will grant 516 Weapon Damage after interrupting a target, up from 400. This set will also permanently increase the damage of your Bash attacks by 516.

These types of changes will be retroactive, and you won’t need to re-farm gear for these adjustments.

Classes & Skills:

Each Class will be receiving some minor adjustments based on the need for performance adjustments, feedback received, or emergent concerns over the past year. This includes adjustments to active abilities and passives, in certain cases. Again, these are not whole sale changes to an entire skill line when it comes to Class adjustments, only individual abilities.
A good example of this is the adjustments being made to the Necromancer skill Grave Grasp. Currently, this skill shot isn’t seen as very useful and is the least used ability in the Necromancer kit. We are adjusting the ability to be more performant with a slight change in functionality so it will still use 3 areas, but each area will have escalating values of crowd control starting from snare to stun.

Additionally, we are moving Vigor to the first slot in the skill line to help players acquire a highly desired ability much sooner. With this change, simply completing the introduction to Cyrodiil quest will award you enough Alliance points and Rank in the skill lines to unlock Vigor.

Thank you all for reading this preview, and again, the combat team is continuing our focus on performance adjustments, continuing the audit process, and making individual ability adjustments to address long-standing player concerns. We look forward to having everyone playtest these changes and on the PTS next week, and reading your feedback when it launches!

Dear Zos

thanks for the info and update but if we learned anything based on our experience in this game is that you guys do poor job with every update! I wish you can do something to bring this game up to its full potential but pvp is unplayable since launch and about performance issues i dont even wanna talk here as every player know its not gonna happen soon (or ever). I wish you good luck and I hope I can come back to enjoy this game again.

Regards,

Mitch

Alidel

I've tortured myself enough on stam chars to get vigor, and on tank/healer chars to get horn. Please don't make me relive this with mag toons for rapids.

TheRealPotoroo

Elsonso wrote: »

.

count_dingo wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

I've never used this skill so it's not useful? That's some cool logic there.

I don't think it is universally useful, or used, either. It would be interesting to find out from ZOS how many people actually have Rapid slotted. I only use it in Cyrodiil. It never makes the cut in my builds outside of there. I rarely see anyone using it outside of Cyrodiil. I see mainly everyone use it in Cyrodiil. My perception is that it is not used that much outside of Cyrodiil.

I routinely use Rapid outside Cyrodiil (which I avoid like the plague). All my PVE characters have it and most still have it slotted on the back bar. It significantly reduces the time I spend simply moving from way shrine to wherever, doing dailies and surveys and all sorts of things.

LegendaryOaks

personally its not that big of an issue as to me as a pve player

to reach assault rank 5 you will need 88k alliance points, which translates to at most 12 battleground matches, where you can run around with a thumb up your butt and pretend to be doing *** while you watch a youtube video or do homework its really not that bad

LegendaryOaks

what i am really worried about are the class changes and how theyll find an excuse to nerf nightblades while buffing stamplars while leaving current *** design choices untouched (stonefist cast time and duration) (outfit style shield being smaller than their item counter part) (only being able to have one visual effect on an item so alkosh will overwrite the crown store weapon motif visual effects)

MajThorax

Rapid Maneuver 1st and Vigor 2nd is better. In the process of leveling up a new character, speed is much more important than healing. Keep in mind the buffs new players receive in the early levels to hp and resistances.

VaranisArano

Early access to Rapid Manuvers is essential in Cyrodiil where you've got vast distances to cover.

I'm all for reworking the Alliance War skill lines if you need to in order to account for Stam builds originally not included in the game, but don't just shrug off why Rapids was the first skill unlocked by necessity.

tmbrinks

Elsonso wrote: »

.

count_dingo wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Never used rapid in 5 years on 18 characters cant be that useful

I've never used this skill so it's not useful? That's some cool logic there.

I don't think it is universally useful, or used, either. It would be interesting to find out from ZOS how many people actually have Rapid slotted. I only use it in Cyrodiil. It never makes the cut in my builds outside of there. I rarely see anyone using it outside of Cyrodiil. I see mainly everyone use it in Cyrodiil. My perception is that it is not used that much outside of Cyrodiil.

All 36 characters of mine have it slotted when doing writs.

95%+ of the time I'm doing overland content, I have rapids on my bar to run from place to place.

Only time I don't have it slotted is when I'm doing Dungeons/Trials/BGs

technohic

I pvp constantly and have to agree with the no PVP crowd on not moving Rapids. When we take new players in to Cyrodiil, a lot already have slow mounts. I'd rather them not also be missing Rapids

VaranisArano

technohic wrote: »

I pvp constantly and have to agree with the no PVP crowd on not moving Rapids. When we take new players in to Cyrodiil, a lot already have slow mounts. I'd rather them not also be missing Rapids

Yeah, its hard enough to find a group when you first come to Cyrodiil without trailing far behind them the whole time making you a prime target for gankers.