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Leads in IC; if you wanted us to hate PvP even more... this was it
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Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People are complaining about not getting leads immediately because they want all the items this week
The Antiquities system is something that was added which contributes to the long term of the game.
Which is why there are leads everywhere.
You may not like PvP having leads but I’m sure there are various PvP players who appreciate it.
Of course people are hating the grind if all they’re doing is farming leads. It’s supposed to be something you do as you play - like crafting.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea that there are leads for pvp play, I think having them be exclusive is the issue.
And again there are literally dozens of leads that are locked behind PvE activities that PvPers don't like to do. Fishing. Dungeons. Trials. Pathfinder achievements which include delve completions. There are leads that are only exclusive to those activities. This is why a lot of people think that PvEers have a chip on their shoulder. Everyone has to suffer through THEIR content, but Mara forbid it if they actually have to do something they don't want to to get a special item from the system.
If they made what is now exclusive pve leads also drop in pvp I would not care, just as long as they all drop in pve. Why should one form or the other have exclusives for that type of game play?
The same argument works in reversal. The. Other. Leads. In. Raids. Do. Not. Drop. In. PvP. Literally most leads do NOT drop in PvP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
I don't understand. Did I not just say have all leads that drop in PvE also drop in PvP and vice versa? I honestly don't care.
Have monster helms drop in PvP, it's fine with me. Why should any of that bother me?
I wasn't talking about monster helms. There are literally leads that are locked behind PvE activities. Fishing. Trials. Dungeons. It doesn't take but 20 seconds to google this or look on Alcast's website. They can't get most of those leads by participating in PvP and are ONLY FOUND IN PVE, so why should YOU be that special in having a select few (literally, there's just 8 of them compared to how many PvE leads?) that are locked behind PvP? It's not hard to understand unless you're birdboxing the point in which case, I have better things to deal with if you're going to go "BUT PVP" all day. If you don't want to PvP, you don't need the leads. Simple. If I have to put up with finding leads only found in fishing, dungeons, and raids, you have to put up with only a couple in the IC and Cyrodiil.People are complaining about not getting leads immediately because they want all the items this week
The Antiquities system is something that was added which contributes to the long term of the game.
Which is why there are leads everywhere.
You may not like PvP having leads but I’m sure there are various PvP players who appreciate it.
Of course people are hating the grind if all they’re doing is farming leads. It’s supposed to be something you do as you play - like crafting.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea that there are leads for pvp play, I think having them be exclusive is the issue.
And again there are literally dozens of leads that are locked behind PvE activities that PvPers don't like to do. Fishing. Dungeons. Trials. Pathfinder achievements which include delve completions. There are leads that are only exclusive to those activities. This is why a lot of people think that PvEers have a chip on their shoulder. Everyone has to suffer through THEIR content, but Mara forbid it if they actually have to do something they don't want to to get a special item from the system.
If they made what is now exclusive pve leads also drop in pvp I would not care, just as long as they all drop in pve. Why should one form or the other have exclusives for that type of game play?
“... they actually have to do something they don't want to...” Ummm yeah, that’s why the OP made the thread.newtinmpls wrote: »Normally I hate IC and avoid it. Don't care to do it, not fun getting ganked.
But now there are leads in IC.
So now I get to wade through more of the F-ing annoying petty 13 year old crap.
Way to increase resentment and misery
I don’t understand your argument, do you want pvers to not like pvp more? Or do you think a person who dislikes pvp will suddenly “switch” to liking it?People are complaining about not getting leads immediately because they want all the items this week
The Antiquities system is something that was added which contributes to the long term of the game.
Which is why there are leads everywhere.
You may not like PvP having leads but I’m sure there are various PvP players who appreciate it.
Of course people are hating the grind if all they’re doing is farming leads. It’s supposed to be something you do as you play - like crafting.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea that there are leads for pvp play, I think having them be exclusive is the issue.
And again there are literally dozens of leads that are locked behind PvE activities that PvPers don't like to do. Fishing. Dungeons. Trials. Pathfinder achievements which include delve completions. There are leads that are only exclusive to those activities. This is why a lot of people think that PvEers have a chip on their shoulder. Everyone has to suffer through THEIR content, but Mara forbid it if they actually have to do something they don't want to to get a special item from the system.
If they made what is now exclusive pve leads also drop in pvp I would not care, just as long as they all drop in pve. Why should one form or the other have exclusives for that type of game play?
The same argument works in reversal. The. Other. Leads. In. Raids. Do. Not. Drop. In. PvP. Literally most leads do NOT drop in PvP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
I don't understand. Did I not just say have all leads that drop in PvE also drop in PvP and vice versa? I honestly don't care.
Have monster helms drop in PvP, it's fine with me. Why should any of that bother me?
I don’t know what you are on about at this point. I think it’s poor design to have pve rewards that pvpers can’t get and also the reverse. Do you think I am saying otherwise?
There's probably some wires crossed somewhere. People, including myself, are very quick to jump when people complain about what's happened over the years. I see what you mean about the design flaw, but we're not going to have it changed. No amount of complaining will do it because people who hate it will still grit their teeth only to get the shiny. That level of participation doesn't take in account the personal feelings toward it. You have two things in this method that matters. Turnout via numbers and participation engagement time. Because people who don't like doing these activities are counted like they do. If you want to actually take a stand? Don't do the thing. That's the only data they're going to listen to because it's through spreadsheets now. Player feedback doesn't trump that no matter how much someone flails. We learned this from Necromancers, we learned this with vampires.
The second thing is that PvPers have often been thrown in these arguments. IE; The Golden. It's not the fact that they can get these things just by PvPing, it's that PvEers hated the fact that PvPers could get something on a rotation that probably took them the same amount of time farming wise to get in a preferable trait. Transmutation came way later and even then you had people chiming in that "Arena weapons shouldn't be eligible because I had to farm months and months for it". PvPers have been virtually the forum's whipping boy for literal years because people 'don't like to PvP'. So I'm sorry for seeing red because there was things in your statements that didn't read that way. As in you mentioning that PvP leads are exclusive in your first instance about it, yet foregoing the mentioning of PvE leads being exclusive. And while that system of having things non-exclusive also looks good on paper, there's no lootable player corpses while PvPing. You don't even really 'loot' the Tel Var you pick up in the IC from another player. A large portion of what they had just gets calculated to your amount. No interaction, it's instantaneous on player death. I don't see them changing that system just so things aren't exclusive. Especially when the aforementioned paragraph's tidbit about data actually matters more than what you or I may think or feel. When people get it in their head that it's not about PvE or PvP, but numbers and data? All the doors open.Edited by Sephyr on June 8, 2020 10:33AM2 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭
Let me rephrase it:
The design of IC (as a PvP zone) is fundamentally flawed - telvar can only be obtained from "PvE activities" in the zone in the first place.which seems to be avoiding pvp and doing pve... in a pvp area...
ALL of the telvar that you can get off of the enemies you've killed in PvP has ultimately originated from PvE mobs. (or from daily login rewards, or the PvE quest rewards, both of which don't count as PvP)
IMO, this is one of the zone's biggest flaws - and pretty much the main reason why it's mostly full of farmzergs and NB gankers.
Presumably, telvar was meant as an incentive to participate in IC's content, but instead it has overwhelmingly served as an incentive for PvE farming - as well as ganking the farmers, which tends to make for rather poor PvP most of the time.
Anyone still remembers the outcry from farmers when the number of IC instances was reduced from 6/8 to just 2?
And now, we have a similar situation with leads - putting what amounts to pure PvE content in a PvP zone.
I guess the devs didn't learn their lessons from the 2019 Anniversary "PvP week"?
So, what's your objection?
IC would me a much better, more fun zone to PvP in if telvar also dropped from enemy player kills - just like AP, and it would also need to share a similar cooldown (as AP does) to prevent exploiting.
(EDIT: clarification - this in addition to the existing mechanic of losing 50% telvar on death, although the numbers could use some tweaking)
As it stands right now, if you enter IC with the intent to farm telvar then you have already lost the battle, so to speak.
Since by the zone's (poor) design, the best way to earn telvar is to avoid any PvP and only engage in the PvE objectives.
It does not help that the other good way of obtaining telvar is to go in as a NB with 0 telvar on you and gank the PvE farmers, since that flies in the face of the whole "risk vs reward" premise that IC was supposed to be built upon.
Ah ok, gotcha!
In the early days I used to farm sewers as a sorc in full pve gear. Streak away when I got attacked, used an invis potion when I was out of LoS and then quickly run to a hiding spot. Of course it didn't always work.. but if I ran around with more telvar than I was ready to give up then that was an error on my part.
I think the intention is to be there there fully decked out in pvp gear and keep an eye out for enemy players at all times.
Farming mobs there shouldn't be safe and it definitely shouldn't be a thing like it is today. Farming mobs is an unintentional side effect of ZOS by not investing proper incentives for pvp'ers to be there. It's created a more "farm friendly" enviornment for pve'rs that gankers are taking advantage of.
So I'd rather see ZOS invest some time into actually making it attractive for pvp'ers, instead of leaving it as a farm spot for telvar stones. And I can't think of a reason to why players shouldn't drop telvar stones by default, like you suggested The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This exclusivity could backfire for some players, for example I am wondering if people who dislike pvp but want the St. Alessia statue will just go afk (or just do the absolute minimum) during the battles and hope for the best.2 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So two rings and a furniture item:- Malacath’s Brutal Rune Core (Mythic piece); Upper District Bosses, Can also drop from Safebox in Bal Foyen. (Dig Site in Bal Foyen)
- Jeweled Skull of Ayleid Kings (Gold; Furniture); Lead drops in Cyrodiil Treasure Chests or Heavy Sacks, Imperial City upper District Bosses (Only dig site is in Glenumbra)
- Hecatomb Tassets (Mythic piece); Lead drops in IMPERIAL CITY from General Kryozote & Krosogar, Imperial City Sewers (Only dig site is in Khenarthi’s Roost)
Malacath's Band of Brutality
Set bonus: (1 item) Increases your damage done by 25%. You cannot deal critical damage.
* 1 piece in Imperial City
Bloodlord's Embrace
Set bonus: (1 item) Dealing damage with a Bash attack places a persistent, un-cleansable Blood Curse on an enemy. You can only have one Blood Cursed enemy at a time and dealing additional Bash damage moves the Blood Curse. Blocking an attack from a Blood Cursed enemy restores 1535 Magicka to you. This effect can occur every 1 second.
* 1 piece in Imperial City Sewers
Jeweled Skull of Ayleid Kings
Traditional Furnishings, Undercroft
* 1 piece drops from Cyrodiil Chest in Newt Cave or Imperial City upper District Bosses
Right. There's a few others in Cyrodiil as well, but those are the only ones that stood out in terms of the IC since that's what was asked.0 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually it is pretty fun with the leads now in IC, that means there are even more PvE people to lighten of their Tel Var.PC|EU1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This exclusivity could backfire for some players, for example I am wondering if people who dislike pvp but want the St. Alessia statue will just go afk (or just do the absolute minimum) during the battles and hope for the best.
Honestly? That's fine. Nobody says you have to be good at PVP to play, though I do find that its best to prepare for PVP.
One of the best suggestions for having a reasonably good experience in PVP is to group up and the larger the better. Get your guildmates together for a night of IC lead farming and just storm the city. The more allies you've got, the less it matters if you personally are pants at PVP.
The only time you can't use teammates to help carry you is in Battlegrounds, where it's just not fair, similar to expecting a group to carry you through a vet dungeon.0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP's reaction is a bit over-the-top, but PVE content in a PVP zone was always a bad idea, and I really, really, really wish they'd quit trying to funnel people into it."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle9 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I for one ensure the covenant are hard at work defending all our lands. Imperial city is part of our territory and thus will be contested as rival inferiors attempt to take our lands and riches.
Some players try to ruin the immersive roleplaying experience of the 3 banner war by calling them 13 year olds. Tell them to shape up or ship out. The covenant has no room for cowards and weaklings... and if you arent carrying that banner, your opinion isnt valued in tamriel.
I guess if that's all you have available to value in your life, that's your business. Have a nice life.
You just ruined my immersion2 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This exclusivity could backfire for some players, for example I am wondering if people who dislike pvp but want the St. Alessia statue will just go afk (or just do the absolute minimum) during the battles and hope for the best.
That's also the other thing if the leads are added to Rewards of the Worthy. I can put in the bare minimum and leave Cyrodiil with a minimum of 200k AP solo. That's also without a PvP build (I didn't use Impen and didn't spec everything out towards PvP). To also boot it, I'm on the absolute worst thing to PvP as, a MagNecro. It's not hard to get Rewards of the Worthy mails especially when you consider that major fights in poplocked campaigns can net anywhere from four to five digits in terms of AP. My personal highest I've seen is 18k AP and to trigger a RotW mail you need around 20,000 AP. So if you're killing players on top of defending/taking keeps? It's not hard to cheese it. I PvP super casually compared to what I used to do and I'm well on my way over 2mil AP since I started playing again about a year ago.Edited by Sephyr on June 8, 2020 10:51AM2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »This exclusivity could backfire for some players, for example I am wondering if people who dislike pvp but want the St. Alessia statue will just go afk (or just do the absolute minimum) during the battles and hope for the best.
Honestly? That's fine. Nobody says you have to be good at PVP to play, though I do find that its best to prepare for PVP.
One of the best suggestions for having a reasonably good experience in PVP is to group up and the larger the better. Get your guildmates together for a night of IC lead farming and just storm the city. The more allies you've got, the less it matters if you personally are pants at PVP.
The only time you can't use teammates to help carry you is in Battlegrounds, where it's just not fair, similar to expecting a group to carry you through a vet dungeon.
That’s why I mentioned the statue in particular, it’s only available from bgs, I believe.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »
So pvpers having to pve to get most of the stuff is fine but pvers going to Cyro/IC occasionally is not? Ok.
Not a single player is stopping anyone from going into a pve zone and killing a monster. So don't compare it to going into a pvp zone and killing a monster while players actively try to stop you every time for however long it takes for you to quit.
You're still looking at this from your PVE point of view. To the PVPer; fighting the player trying to gank them is part of the fun. Killing the monster actively trying to stop you isnt.2 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭If you want the antiquity, do the content. Don't want to do the content? No antiquity for you. You're not entitled to have everything be handed to you on a silver platter in easy as *** overland zones.
EDIT: For those going "PvP is different, players are actively trying to stop others from progressing", it really boils down to the same thing -- both sides having to do something they don't like to get something they badly want or need -- so they're really not that different. PvP has players actively trying to stop each other from progressing, PvE has mindless killing of mobs while walking between NPC's who spew dialogue that some players genuinely don't care about.
IMO, it's a good thing. It gets people trying out every aspect of the game, and helps keep populations up across the board. Again, if you don't want to do the content, don't do it, but accept that you won't get what you're looking for.Edited by eKsDee on June 8, 2020 11:02AM2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »This exclusivity could backfire for some players, for example I am wondering if people who dislike pvp but want the St. Alessia statue will just go afk (or just do the absolute minimum) during the battles and hope for the best.
Honestly? That's fine. Nobody says you have to be good at PVP to play, though I do find that its best to prepare for PVP.
One of the best suggestions for having a reasonably good experience in PVP is to group up and the larger the better. Get your guildmates together for a night of IC lead farming and just storm the city. The more allies you've got, the less it matters if you personally are pants at PVP.
The only time you can't use teammates to help carry you is in Battlegrounds, where it's just not fair, similar to expecting a group to carry you through a vet dungeon.
That’s why I mentioned the statue in particular, it’s only available from bgs, I believe.
Ah.
Well, there is the thing where some players will just sit in the spawn point so they can get their free AP to level up the PVP skill lines. That was a thing long before Greymoor.
Which is to say that lazy people are lazy and some people will be jerks in order to get what they want as easily as possible. What else is new? Again, not dissimilar from someone trying to get leads by being carried through hard PVE content.0 -
le_spy✭✭✭people complaining about for 'having' to go do something in content they haven't stepped in foot for the past 3 years for once smh just because they want something that isn't even needed for anyone in pve, the entitelment is strong in those ones, i personally would have expected way more leads to drop in cyrodiil
you know that in other mmos you have very specific gear pieces even locked behind pvp, like it or not and they might be bis for certain pve content and they're not sellable or tradeable, its the usual issue of people being never satisfied regardlless of how easy you make them things0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »This exclusivity could backfire for some players, for example I am wondering if people who dislike pvp but want the St. Alessia statue will just go afk (or just do the absolute minimum) during the battles and hope for the best.
Honestly? That's fine. Nobody says you have to be good at PVP to play, though I do find that its best to prepare for PVP.
One of the best suggestions for having a reasonably good experience in PVP is to group up and the larger the better. Get your guildmates together for a night of IC lead farming and just storm the city. The more allies you've got, the less it matters if you personally are pants at PVP.
The only time you can't use teammates to help carry you is in Battlegrounds, where it's just not fair, similar to expecting a group to carry you through a vet dungeon.
That’s why I mentioned the statue in particular, it’s only available from bgs, I believe.
Ah.
Well, there is the thing where some players will just sit in the spawn point so they can get their free AP to level up the PVP skill lines. That was a thing long before Greymoor.
Which is to say that lazy people are lazy and some people will be jerks in order to get what they want as easily as possible. What else is new? Again, not dissimilar from someone trying to get leads by being carried through hard PVE content.
Yeah. Cheesing leads like that isn't a bad thing either in my opinion. When I first started PvPing, I was one of those lazy bones in Chal waiting for AP to roll in. Until I decked myself out in full Nirnhoned gear when it was broken beyond measure and just ran around the keep keeping some of the 1vXers busy and then people killed them for me. I can't remember if the defensive ticks were capped, but I know I got Magicka Detonation in less than a couple of hours. It went by soooooo fast.
1 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are multiple avenues. It's called 18 character slots and now Alliance change tokens. I have 90% of my toons in DC. I have made one for EP and one for AD. I pve and dabble in pvp. When content comes up in cyrodiil that I would like to have. Slot appropriate toon and go fetch.
I can't complain about the odd item/reward/skill dropping in pvp land because 80% of desireable equipment, skills for pvp, drop in pve dungeons. I don't come moan on the forums about zos being cruel/nasty/mean (insert appropriate dramatic description) to poor, little old me. Play the game.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »There are multiple avenues. It's called 18 character slots and now Alliance change tokens. I have 90% of my toons in DC. I have made one for EP and one for AD. I pve and dabble in pvp. When content comes up in cyrodiil that I would like to have. Slot appropriate toon and go fetch.
I can't complain about the odd item/reward/skill dropping in pvp land because 80% of desireable equipment, skills for pvp, drop in pve dungeons. I don't come moan on the forums about zos being cruel/nasty/mean (insert appropriate dramatic description) to poor, little old me. Play the game.
Its even easier in Imperial City. Hop in, check which alliance is dominating the districts, and get on the character of the appropriate alliance.0 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I for one ensure the covenant are hard at work defending all our lands. Imperial city is part of our territory and thus will be contested as rival inferiors attempt to take our lands and riches.
Some players try to ruin the immersive roleplaying experience of the 3 banner war by calling them 13 year olds. Tell them to shape up or ship out. The covenant has no room for cowards and weaklings... and if you arent carrying that banner, your opinion isnt valued in tamriel.
Well sorry to rain on your parade but if any alliance can claim victory in the history books then it is the Ebonheart Pact for a Nord named Tiber Septim would become Emperor even if it is a few hundred years into the future.4 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
So pvpers having to pve to get most of the stuff is fine but pvers going to Cyro/IC occasionally is not? Ok.
Let's see....what could the differences possibly be.....hmm.... Remember, this is not grinding for gear, simply scrying for and digging up antiquities.
Pvpers scrying for antiquities and hunting them down in pve areas....no one cares. Besides random npc type local wildlife and bandits, absolutely no other pve players will pay the slightest attention to the pvper hunting antiquities. No pver will harass/grief/block or otherwise annoy the pvper scrying and hunting antiquities in pve areas by constantly killing them.
Pvers scrying for antiquities and hunting them down in pvp areas...every random npc type local wildlife and bandits, PLUS every ganker/righteous faction warrior/rabid-got-to-kill-everything-all-the-time pvper will be more than happy to kill them, even if they don't fight back.
Just a little, teeny tiny itsy bitsy bit of different there.....8 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pvers scrying for antiquities and hunting them down in pvp areas...every random npc type local wildlife and bandits, PLUS every ganker/righteous faction warrior/rabid-got-to-kill-everything-all-the-time pvper will be more than happy to kill them, even if they don't fight back.
Just a little, teeny tiny itsy bitsy bit of different there.....
But the leads themselves are the only reason why you're there. You can't scry for them in the Imperial City (or Cyrodiil for that matter) as the dig sites are out in PvE (as far as I've seen in every guide that's been posted). That's why a lot of us don't see the real issue as it's just leads that are locked behind PvP zones. The Scrying and Excavation system is weird with combat in PvE enough as it is and I'm sure the developers who set this up understood that when they were play testing in PvE-land.
Edited by Sephyr on June 8, 2020 11:25AM3 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So pvpers having to pve to get most of the stuff is fine but pvers going to Cyro/IC occasionally is not? Ok.
Let's see....what could the differences possibly be.....hmm.... Remember, this is not grinding for gear, simply scrying for and digging up antiquities.
Pvpers scrying for antiquities and hunting them down in pve areas....no one cares. Besides random npc type local wildlife and bandits, absolutely no other pve players will pay the slightest attention to the pvper hunting antiquities. No pver will harass/grief/block or otherwise annoy the pvper scrying and hunting antiquities in pve areas by constantly killing them.
Pvers scrying for antiquities and hunting them down in pvp areas...every random npc type local wildlife and bandits, PLUS every ganker/righteous faction warrior/rabid-got-to-kill-everything-all-the-time pvper will be more than happy to kill them, even if they don't fight back.
Just a little, teeny tiny itsy bitsy bit of different there.....
You don't get it, i'm talking about doing stuff pvpers don't like either.1 -
Michae✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I understand the frustration, but IC can be fun (in small doses) even if you're mostly PvE'er. I spent hours on hours both in the sewers getting skyshards, and in the city farming Tel Var nad getting inevitably ganked. I just popped into the IC when I felt particularly masochistic. I just love the atmosphere there, art wise it's the best zone in the game for me. About a month ago I decided it's a high time to get the Siegemaster costume. To get it you had to do an IC daily and get a siegemaster's merit or whatever it's called, you could get one merit every 20 hours and you needed 50 merits for the costume. After Greymoor dropped it turns out that the 20h cooldown is no more, you're just limited to one merit per daily a day and there's 6 dailies so I just run up the ladders to accept every quest and then make a lap around the whole city, sneaking around and avoiding other players while trying to complete my objectives Solid Snake style. The new vampire sneaking passive has been a blessing for my stam blade and made running in sneak mode a lot more fun. Sure I get killed from time to time, but regardless it's quite fun. Sometimes I even manage to kill someone else, usually just some straggler or a ganker who didn't expect any resistance, most of the time I manage to spot the danger and go around it or escape the sticky situation when it happens. I even got a lead by chance, although I don't plan to dabble in the Antiquities system for now. My advice is to set yourself a goal, like getting Siegemaster's stuff for example and treat oll the other stuff, like leads or Tel Var as a nice bonus."I bear the cruel weight of certainty. Total, absolute, relentless certainty. People rarely comprehend the luxury of doubt... the freedom that comes with indecision. I envy you."
―Sotha Sil
@Michae PC/EU2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
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So pvpers having to pve to get most of the stuff is fine but pvers going to Cyro/IC occasionally is not? Ok.
Let's see....what could the differences possibly be.....hmm.... Remember, this is not grinding for gear, simply scrying for and digging up antiquities.
Pvpers scrying for antiquities and hunting them down in pve areas....no one cares. Besides random npc type local wildlife and bandits, absolutely no other pve players will pay the slightest attention to the pvper hunting antiquities. No pver will harass/grief/block or otherwise annoy the pvper scrying and hunting antiquities in pve areas by constantly killing them.
Pvers scrying for antiquities and hunting them down in pvp areas...every random npc type local wildlife and bandits, PLUS every ganker/righteous faction warrior/rabid-got-to-kill-everything-all-the-time pvper will be more than happy to kill them, even if they don't fight back.
Just a little, teeny tiny itsy bitsy bit of different there.....
You are right. Unlike in PVE zones, players in PVP zones can be prevented from succeeding by other players.
Question for you: Do you think ZOS somehow forgot that PVP can happen in a PVP zone?
I doubt it. ZOS knows full well that players can be prevented (temporarily) from succeeding at antiquities in PVP zones and they put the leads there anyways.6 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The whining only fuels us to want to gank them more, to be honest.
Careful, some of us gank back.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »If you don't like PVP, by all means, let ZOS know that... It's no accident ZOS puts rewards behind PVP content when they put rewards behind ALL the content in the game.
They know full well that most ESO players will hold their nose and PVP long enough to get the rewards if they want them bad enough. It happens every event despite the complaints.
Just wait until people find out that there's going to be more tickets to be earned during the next Midyear Mayhem. The first set of tickets behind the BGs and Cyrodiil and then the second set of tickets behind the IC dailies. Can't wait for the same thing to pop up with that.
Lovin' it.
Nice thing from ZOS to mix goals for thingies at both pve and pvp. It is as it should be, those who want the rewards do the work for it in any environment. I am mostly pvp player and that is why i came to play ESO and i like the PVP combat of it, but always ready to grind pve stuff if needed even if not enjoy it that much.
Still often i find fun things, people and groups from pve activities too so it works as intended by ZOS. Even i still tend to call myself mainly a pvp player, i do both, imo a good PVP player can and will farm Vet DLC dungeons and Arenas for the gear, Monster sets and whatnot is needed for different characters/roles builds to be exactly what you want them to be.
Imo, and this might hurt someones fragile ego.. but those PVP players who wait for monster sets to come at Golden instead of doing the actual Vet Dungeons are same as a "PVE only" player crying about having to get a Lead or Event Ticket from PVP zone so refusing to do it.. If want something, go and get it instead of every week of "Garbage day again at Golden" whining when Golden does not sell them the Monster helms they want. Just go do the dungeon instead of waiting for years and whining about it lol.
Ability to do both content, even the other side would be more enjoyable to you, will make you a better player in the end, for both. It might sound wrong to some, but imo PVP side does make your reflexes and reactions fast, more survivable, you dodge things (even at Vet pve content) without even thinking about it, things that would one shot you normally, making your healer love you. No one wanna have the people on their groups that shout how much they parse on a dummy, but spend most of actual battles dead due to not reacting on whats happening when cannot focus on 2 things at same time and the 1 and only thing is rotation.
PVP imo teaches after long enough time to be better at multitasking, you same time are on offense and do your damage on an enemy, but you will for even for a slight sound cue (ie. a Snipe sound) react to it at same time, after enough pvp, pve ground aoe and conal damage, channeled attacks and boss mechanics feel "slow" compared to what you have to deal with on pvp, thus making you survive better and being able to continue rotations with better situational awareness. Fewer deaths, better performance.
Also.. pvp made me way better at pve tanking i can tell you that. Only downside after years of pvp, you usually know a pvp player from their movement, jumping a lot and strafe-like circling and stuff.. even i personally have to really focus on staying stacked at pve and not dance around like i do at pvp, no one likes the tank to dance around so boss goes away from everyones ground DoTs haha.
So pve players.. use things like these Leads and Mayhem event tickets to atleast give it a chance, group up, learn basics. Ask help from your alliances experienced pvp players. In the end, i often hear on zone chat that many who never did pvp before actually had fun in the end, after a rough start and will be coming back for more even if there is no more Event and so on. So it works like ZOS wants, they want people to try out all content they create. And if someone really not want to, then they do not have to. There are mostly pve events and pve Leads.
You lot should really let us pvpers to have the few things we have, 1 pvp event and few pvp Leads. I mean.. demanding even those to be just pve would be really selfish in my opinion.
In any case, have fun (or try to atleast if going there) hunting the Leads! You are the Vestige, we may take your life and Tel Var, but we cannot take your soul! 
4 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well. I have now seen threads complaining about leads behind fishing, PvP, and dungeons. Why not just save us the trouble and have one giant thread about how the leads shouldn't drop from anywhere since there is always someone unhappy with one of the chosen locations?!?
For the record, I can kinda see the issue with the fishing leads but "encouragement" by ZOS to go into PvP or PvE for rewards useful to the other type of play is nothing new. It doesn't mean they hate us; it is just part of how ESO works.5 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What would seem to work better for players is multiple options to locate the same lead so a preferred context to search in could be played for maximum fun; the other context would remain optional for laughs/masochism.
What would work for me, personally, is not getting leads at all since I never bought Greymoor.
I agree with both of these comments and would also be a good generalized solution to all of the "why is x lead behind x content" complaints. Which would also allow us to combine all of these topics into a single discussion.
0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »If you don't like PVP, by all means, let ZOS know that... It's no accident ZOS puts rewards behind PVP content when they put rewards behind ALL the content in the game.
They know full well that most ESO players will hold their nose and PVP long enough to get the rewards if they want them bad enough. It happens every event despite the complaints.
Just wait until people find out that there's going to be more tickets to be earned during the next Midyear Mayhem. The first set of tickets behind the BGs and Cyrodiil and then the second set of tickets behind the IC dailies. Can't wait for the same thing to pop up with that.
Lovin' it.
Nice thing from ZOS to mix goals for thingies at both pve and pvp. It is as it should be, those who want the rewards do the work for it in any environment. I am mostly pvp player and that is why i came to play ESO and i like the PVP combat of it, but always ready to grind pve stuff if needed even if not enjoy it that much.
Still often i find fun things, people and groups from pve activities too so it works as intended by ZOS. Even i still tend to call myself mainly a pvp player, i do both, imo a good PVP player can and will farm Vet DLC dungeons and Arenas for the gear, Monster sets and whatnot is needed for different characters/roles builds to be exactly what you want them to be.
Imo, and this might hurt someones fragile ego.. but those PVP players who wait for monster sets to come at Golden instead of doing the actual Vet Dungeons are same as a "PVE only" player crying about having to get a Lead or Event Ticket from PVP zone so refusing to do it.. If want something, go and get it instead of every week of "Garbage day again at Golden" whining when Golden does not sell them the Monster helms they want. Just go do the dungeon instead of waiting for years and whining about it lol.
Ability to do both content, even the other side would be more enjoyable to you, will make you a better player in the end, for both. It might sound wrong to some, but imo PVP side does make your reflexes and reactions fast, more survivable, you dodge things (even at Vet pve content) without even thinking about it, things that would one shot you normally, making your healer love you. No one wanna have the people on their groups that shout how much they parse on a dummy, but spend most of actual battles dead due to not reacting on whats happening when cannot focus on 2 things at same time and the 1 and only thing is rotation.
PVP imo teaches after long enough time to be better at multitasking, you same time are on offense and do your damage on an enemy, but you will for even for a slight sound cue (ie. a Snipe sound) react to it at same time, after enough pvp, pve ground aoe and conal damage, channeled attacks and boss mechanics feel "slow" compared to what you have to deal with on pvp, thus making you survive better and being able to continue rotations with better situational awareness. Fewer deaths, better performance.
Also.. pvp made me way better at pve tanking i can tell you that. Only downside after years of pvp, you usually know a pvp player from their movement, jumping a lot and strafe-like circling and stuff.. even i personally have to really focus on staying stacked at pve and not dance around like i do at pvp, no one likes the tank to dance around so boss goes away from everyones ground DoTs haha.
So pve players.. use things like these Leads and Mayhem event tickets to atleast give it a chance, group up, learn basics. Ask help from your alliances experienced pvp players. In the end, i often hear on zone chat that many who never did pvp before actually had fun in the end, after a rough start and will be coming back for more even if there is no more Event and so on. So it works like ZOS wants, they want people to try out all content they create. And if someone really not want to, then they do not have to. There are mostly pve events and pve Leads.
You lot should really let us pvpers to have the few things we have, 1 pvp event and few pvp Leads. I mean.. demanding even those to be just pve would be really selfish in my opinion.
In any case, have fun (or try to atleast if going there) hunting the Leads! You are the Vestige, we may take your life and Tel Var, but we cannot take your soul!
That's my sentiment exactly. I ground out all of the gear on all of my character's in PvE before transmutation or the Golden was even a thing and some of the builds I run are still just as competitive as they were then. When I was grinding vMA for specific weapon drops with specific traits (again, before transmutation) well over a year, I didn't create a forum account and complain about it. I sucked it up and I kept going because that was something my builds needed. And once I got the drop I needed, literally four characters had to share the drop because I was burnt out. I'm apparently now 'bitter' because I'm finally glad I have something else to do while PvPing in the IC.
PvP taught me more about the game than PvEers ever did. It taught me how to properly build for situations that no Streamer or YouTuber template could give me. Most cookie cutter builds don't teach you the gut instinct of your own playstyle and while metas are going by what's best in slot, it's not always what's best for someone personally. When taking this knowledge through PvE raiding progression guilds, I was always on the bench doing fill-ins until they gave me a chance and acted like I was stupid because I was always in Cyrodiil. As if that somehow diminished my ability to perform while undergoing heavy fight mechanics. When they finally let me on full time it was right before combat dummies were introduced. Which after I was booted because I was using "cheese PvP builds" that were too "glass cannony" despite my Flawless vMA.
Meanwhile in PvP, I've ran into less toxic situations. Yeah, sure. You occasionally get crouch dips in your face, but for the most part I've had some rather awesome conversations with PvPers. They're usually more relaxed and more chill when they're not screaming in Zone about who didn't go where in Cyrodiil. In the IC I remember having the BEST of times when it first launched. Fights for days before the districts were added. Tel Var was a major incentive and despite one or two bad apples, everyone was friendly. Sometimes we'd get bored of massive clashes and do 1v1 duels up top side. Different alliances /luting. It wasn't a job compared to how most PvEers make it seem like.
Which brings me to my actual point--PvPers aren't there to troll you from progressing. They're there to PvP. Just because they 'camp' questing areas doesn't mean it's bullying. They're going to go to the area in which there's the most activity. I've seen PvP guilds rotate PvP questing areas so EVERYONE could finish quests and it was on a near-consistent time schedule before prime time hits. I've seen them back off in the IC when they're fighting in the center of the sewers for the dye. I've seen them also behave and let people get skyshards BEFORE they're ganked. And I know someone will @ me going "Well they also gank before we get them too!" Right. And you know what else? PvEers do the same with nodes, they'll hoard drops they don't need in dungeons, as well as block your progress in other ways. Both sides are guilty of it and no one's innocent. The fact a small minuscule amount of leads is in PvP content makes toxic PvEers come out of the woodwork on the forum isn't really surprising, but it is rather disappointing that some are literally making it their life's mission right now to disassociate an entire community from the game. Just because there's leads in a PvP zone. 4 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Its crazy to think you are owed access to every single item in the game on your terms. It is perfectly okay if you decide the items from activity X are not good enough to warrant you doing activity X.5
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PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you think leads are bad wait till the mayhem event starts and they put even more rewards behind boss farming in IC.
I love PVP but why not put rewards behind PVP objectives instead of making people zerg up and get shut out if they're the wrong faction.2
This discussion has been closed.