Leads in IC; if you wanted us to hate PvP even more... this was it

Major_Lag

Thoragaal wrote: »

which seems to be avoiding pvp and doing pve... in a pvp area...

The design of IC (as a PvP zone) is fundamentally flawed - telvar can only be obtained from "PvE activities" in the zone in the first place.

ALL of the telvar that you can get off of the enemies you've killed in PvP has ultimately originated from PvE mobs. (or from daily login rewards, or the PvE quest rewards, both of which don't count as PvP)
IMO, this is one of the zone's biggest flaws - and pretty much the main reason why it's mostly full of farmzergs and NB gankers.

Presumably, telvar was meant as an incentive to participate in IC's content, but instead it has overwhelmingly served as an incentive for PvE farming - as well as ganking the farmers, which tends to make for rather poor PvP most of the time.
Anyone still remembers the outcry from farmers when the number of IC instances was reduced from 6/8 to just 2?

And now, we have a similar situation with leads - putting what amounts to pure PvE content in a PvP zone.
I guess the devs didn't learn their lessons from the 2019 Anniversary "PvP week"?

Anyron

Watchdog wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Did it not occur to anyone that the reason they are in PVP or the Dungeons is to encourage new players to try out and experience what else the game has to offer?

Getting ganked without a chance against the CP 810 PvP killing machines at all and getting frustrated by not being able to get the leads?

I guess that is mission acomplished, then.

Maybe try to think and go no-CP IC if this is problem for you

Brrrofski

To preface, I play and enjoy both pvp and pve.

Look at from the other side. Some players ONLY PVP. For those people, if they want one of the mythic items to use in pvp (which some are definitely aimed towards), they have to do AN ENTIRE skill line to get them and a bunch of different PVE activities to get them.

Glurin

kind_hero wrote: »

But players who complain about this are those with a low tolerance for failure, the ones who don't like to die in pve or pvp, usually the type of players who leave the group after a wipe. They want to be carried or easy drops/lootboxes.

No, actually we just have a low tolerance for asshattery. We do not find it in any way fun to be arbitrarily denied access to content by some jerk who thinks it's funny to gank and teabag people who don't have a chance against him. At least with a PvE grind you have access to the content and can make as many attempts as you like whenever you like. In PvP situations, you may not have any practical choice beyond leaving and trying again another day.

newtinmpls

On occasion, I will go into IC. I like the arena "rescue the prisoners" quest. I am not skilled in PvP and as long as I give up the idea that I will ever accumulate telvar stones - mostly I do okay.

I do agree in general that it's a good idea to play the parts of the game I like - and the parts I don't like - leave them alone - that makes sense. Normally I am happy to do just that.

I also do agree that "LFG" or "anyone farming bosses" or generally calling out in zone is a tool to use. I have used it. Extensively. For days and hours. Unfortunately, it is not a magic wand.

Iccotak wrote: »

Did it not occur to anyone that the reason they are in PVP or the Dungeons is to encourage new players to try out and experience what else the game has to offer?

The idea that someone could propose this idea without being extremely drunk, I find highly amusing.

New players. Or "non skilled" players. Or "new to PvP players".

Basically.....fodder for the gankers to gank. Over and over. Way past the point where killing them is generating any alliance points. Way past the point of "yes, I get it, you are tougher than me".

Grinding the miserable experience that is IC over and over and over. Yes, ZoS, you have found a way to inspire even more loathing...

newtinmpls

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Since antiquities is a PVE activity, putting leads in PVP is just a guaranteed frustration. If they were going to put PVE activity leads in PVP, then they should have put the leads, especially the IC ones, in safe zones, where all factions can do the pve thing without gankers and other sorts around. That makes sense.

Nope.

The leads for the PvP equipment (siege lancers) can only be excavated in a PvE zone. It goes both ways.

Or make them tradable. Or sellable.

I would be all over that.

Why cause misery?

Mayrael

Boohoo... Cry me a river. When I wanted stuff from PvE you know what I did? I soloed group dungs, because I hate to wait and ask others to help me, I've created my own builds that are able to being jack of all trades: tanky, deal damage and self heal, and you know what?

I got the stuff, not because I cried on the forums that I want it to be handed over to me, but because I worked for it. You want stuff from PvP? Work for it to, create a build, learn something new, PLAY THE GAME!

If your ego can't take a defeat, well that's your problem, not the game's.

Thoragaal

Major_Lag wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

which seems to be avoiding pvp and doing pve... in a pvp area...

The design of IC (as a PvP zone) is fundamentally flawed - telvar can only be obtained from "PvE activities" in the zone in the first place.

ALL of the telvar that you can get off of the enemies you've killed in PvP has ultimately originated from PvE mobs. (or from daily login rewards, or the PvE quest rewards, both of which don't count as PvP)
IMO, this is one of the zone's biggest flaws - and pretty much the main reason why it's mostly full of farmzergs and NB gankers.

Presumably, telvar was meant as an incentive to participate in IC's content, but instead it has overwhelmingly served as an incentive for PvE farming - as well as ganking the farmers, which tends to make for rather poor PvP most of the time.
Anyone still remembers the outcry from farmers when the number of IC instances was reduced from 6/8 to just 2?

And now, we have a similar situation with leads - putting what amounts to pure PvE content in a PvP zone.
I guess the devs didn't learn their lessons from the 2019 Anniversary "PvP week"?

So, what's your objection? That people are playing in the area the way it was intended to be played? That people in IC looking for pvp should go somewhere else? I don't really understand your objection to what I said.
Yes, a lot of people farm in that area, just like a lot of people are grinding exp in Alik'r desert. It doesn't make it any less of a pvp area, just like it doesn't make Alik'r desert any less of a pve area.

Eifleber

kind_hero wrote: »

Which are the leads droping in IC?

Anyone?

mav1234

Count me as someone glad leads drop from specific and varied activities in Tamriel. I like the variety and I do not mind being forced to farm / do things I dont normally like to.

ApostateHobo

I'm personally fine with them putting leads wherever, as I enjoy both pve and pvp. However there are a ton of little ganking trolls in imperial city that wait to attack you when you're in combat with something. This gets really annoying after a while, so I fully understand the frustration of having to farm for leads there. Also all the pvper's in this thread are reeeally not doing anything to better people's opinion of pvp, you're honestly just reinforcing the negative opinion others have of you.

Sarousse

You have to learn strats to do high end PvE content ?

It's the same for PvP. Use your brain. Choose the right stuff, the right group, the right skills, don't go solo, farm in group.

You'll get the lead in no time.

I hate camping bosses in PvE, I hate fishing, I didn't complain here to get my leads.

Recent

The same leads should be available as pve and pvp options then it works for everyone cos those that prefer to get leads via pve could just grind that and get same leads that people who love to pvp get ...ez.

I agree with you OP ....pvp should not be forced upon pve players and pve should not be forced upon pvp players .
I know people will say it's not forced upon us but as a completionist it sure feels that way.

newtinmpls

ApostateHobo wrote: »

I'm personally fine with them putting leads wherever, as I enjoy both pve and pvp. However there are a ton of little ganking trolls in imperial city that wait to attack you when you're in combat with something. This gets really annoying after a while, so I fully understand the frustration of having to farm for leads there.

Well said, and with more grace than I managed.

When I go into say, Battlegrounds...I'm going there "to PvP". Granted, since you can't group with friends, I pretty much don't, but that's still the principle of how it works.

I like some of the stories in IC. I've mentioned enjoying the Arena rescue dailies, and I adore the Drake of Blades storyline. But I rarely do them, because unlike a finely tuned/honed PVPer, I am not good enough to compete. And since the slight lure of the story is not enough to overcome the annoyance of being ganked and ganked and ganked. I'm not even fighting. It's the same people over and over. They aren't getting AP from me, I'm just holding block, or waving. Just trying to get to a thing.

Even if the boss gets killed, gotta loot it. Oh well now I'm dead.

And "well we [the PvPers] have to do PvE stuff to get what we want" yes, that's annoying too. Does my disliking something and you disliking some other thing mean we can't at least have some sympathy and respect for each other? Lets vent our mutual ire at ZoS, who really doesn't seem to think things through on quality of life issues with any regularity.

Sephyr

Sarousse wrote: »

You have to learn strats to do high end PvE content ?

It's the same for PvP. Use your brain. Choose the right stuff, the right group, the right skills, don't go solo, farm in group.

You'll get the lead in no time.

I hate camping bosses in PvE, I hate fishing, I didn't complain here to get my leads.

But see, they want to complain because it's PvP. Forcing to do it is a 'form of bullying'. Yet anytime when we have to farm something literally hundreds of times just to get an item? "Deal with it."

I remember a time before transmutation and the Golden Vendor was a thing. I've read responses here on the forum of PvEers calling the Golden 'unfair' and that it was easier to get Monster sets from it than actually going to a dungeon. Having to grind for Impen gear in dungeons was literally mind numbing. Yet the moment they have to do it, it's literally the end of the world for an item that isn't even BiS.

Firstmep

Recent wrote: »

The same leads should be available as pve and pvp options then it works for everyone cos those that prefer to get leads via pve could just grind that and get same leads that people who love to pvp get ...ez.

I agree with you OP ....pvp should not be forced upon pve players and pve should not be forced upon pvp players .
I know people will say it's not forced upon us but as a completionist it sure feels that way.

Well it has been a longstanding stance of Zos to encourage players to try all avenues of this game.

VaranisArano

If you don't like PVP, by all means, let ZOS know that.

Just realize that they haven't missed or forgotten your complaints about having to do quick Cyrodiil dailies during the Anniversary event for max rewards, enter Imperial City for quick rewards during it's event, having to do any form of PVP for skyshards, achievements, skill lines and Midyear Mayhem, and every single other time ZOS put rewards behind PVP content.

It's no accident ZOS puts rewards behind PVP content when they put rewards behind ALL the content in the game.
They know full well that most ESO players will hold their nose and PVP long enough to get the rewards if they want them bad enough. It happens every event despite the complaints.


"But its not fair that players can block my progress!"
Yes, well, that's the point of PVP. They block your progress or you block theirs. ZOS didn't somehow miss or forget that's a basic fact of PVP, especially in Imperial City where a core mechanic is literally "kill the other guy to take half his Tel Var." And yet ZOS still stuck leads in Imperial City, almost as if they are completely okay with allowing other players to block your progress with these particular leads and other IC rewards.

"Fine, I'll hold my nose and PVP, but I'm going to hate every minute of it because of mean PVPers!"
Okay. Nobody can make you enjoy the experience, especially if you are determined to feel personally persecuted by the enemy team who's playing as intended.

"Well, I'm not going to hold my nose and PVP no matter what the reward!"
Okay. Don't.

Eifleber

If someone just makes a list of Ciirodil/IC leads I know which ones I don' t have to start.

Thank you.
*

Jaimeh

The point of leads being everywhere is to give people who do all sorts of content have a chance to get something unique, and arguably to make all zones lively again. I don't seriously PvP, so although I would love to have an Elder Scroll furnishing, I'm not complaining it's gated behind AP. If you don't like something, then having to do it just to get a reward is always frustrating. Either you keep trying, or you give up on having it, but either way I think it's nice there's something for everyone, and to be fair, there's very few cool stuff locked behind PvP, compared to the rest of the game.

Major_Lag

Thoragaal wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

which seems to be avoiding pvp and doing pve... in a pvp area...

The design of IC (as a PvP zone) is fundamentally flawed - telvar can only be obtained from "PvE activities" in the zone in the first place.

ALL of the telvar that you can get off of the enemies you've killed in PvP has ultimately originated from PvE mobs. (or from daily login rewards, or the PvE quest rewards, both of which don't count as PvP)
IMO, this is one of the zone's biggest flaws - and pretty much the main reason why it's mostly full of farmzergs and NB gankers.

Presumably, telvar was meant as an incentive to participate in IC's content, but instead it has overwhelmingly served as an incentive for PvE farming - as well as ganking the farmers, which tends to make for rather poor PvP most of the time.
Anyone still remembers the outcry from farmers when the number of IC instances was reduced from 6/8 to just 2?

And now, we have a similar situation with leads - putting what amounts to pure PvE content in a PvP zone.
I guess the devs didn't learn their lessons from the 2019 Anniversary "PvP week"?

So, what's your objection?

Let me rephrase it:
IC would me a much better, more fun zone to PvP in if telvar also dropped from enemy player kills - just like AP, and it would also need to share a similar cooldown (as AP does) to prevent exploiting.
(EDIT: clarification - this in addition to the existing mechanic of losing 50% telvar on death, although the numbers could use some tweaking)

As it stands right now, if you enter IC with the intent to farm telvar then you have already lost the battle, so to speak.
Since by the zone's (poor) design, the best way to earn telvar is to avoid any PvP and only engage in the PvE objectives.

It does not help that the other good way of obtaining telvar is to go in as a NB with 0 telvar on you and gank the PvE farmers, since that flies in the face of the whole "risk vs reward" premise that IC was supposed to be built upon.

Nemesis7884

im in the same boat but took the opportunity to get to know the ic and even get the horror of horrs achievement by killing all the monsters an do the questline....yeah you get ganked some times but its not that bad...just look for when your color is on a wave...

and honestly, the specific lead you get there is for a pvp oriented item...in case you are talking about malacath so if you dont want to do pvp anyhow, why would you want to collect the item?

Sephyr

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you don't like PVP, by all means, let ZOS know that... It's no accident ZOS puts rewards behind PVP content when they put rewards behind ALL the content in the game.
They know full well that most ESO players will hold their nose and PVP long enough to get the rewards if they want them bad enough. It happens every event despite the complaints.

Just wait until people find out that there's going to be more tickets to be earned during the next Midyear Mayhem. The first set of tickets behind the BGs and Cyrodiil and then the second set of tickets behind the IC dailies. Can't wait for the same thing to pop up with that.

Brrrofski

ApostateHobo wrote: »

I'm personally fine with them putting leads wherever, as I enjoy both pve and pvp. However there are a ton of little ganking trolls in imperial city that wait to attack you when you're in combat with something. This gets really annoying after a while, so I fully understand the frustration of having to farm for leads there. Also all the pvper's in this thread are reeeally not doing anything to better people's opinion of pvp, you're honestly just reinforcing the negative opinion others have of you.

To be fair, threads like this do nothing but reinforce the opinion that a lot of players feel 'entitled' to get what they want how they want.

If you don't want to PVP, don't. Forego the lead.

Just like a lot of PVP players are forced to do with every single bit of content that has been released since IC, almost 5 years ago. They either suck it up and do something they don't always enjoy, or they just forget it and move on.

I play both, so I couldn't care less. Just pointing out that there has been a huge imbalance in the content you need to play to actually obtain stuff in this game.

Name me 1 thing outside of vigor, barrier and warhorn you actually have to PVP to get.

If any, it's the tinniest fraction of things you need enter PVE for to obtain.

What lead drops from IC anyway?

Sephyr

Brrrofski wrote: »

ApostateHobo wrote: »

I'm personally fine with them putting leads wherever, as I enjoy both pve and pvp. However there are a ton of little ganking trolls in imperial city that wait to attack you when you're in combat with something. This gets really annoying after a while, so I fully understand the frustration of having to farm for leads there. Also all the pvper's in this thread are reeeally not doing anything to better people's opinion of pvp, you're honestly just reinforcing the negative opinion others have of you.

To be fair, threads like this do nothing but reinforce the opinion that a lot of players feel 'entitled' to get what they want how they want.

If you don't want to PVP, don't. Forego the lead.

Just like a lot of PVP players are forced to do with every single bit of content that has been released since IC, almost 5 years ago. They either suck it up and do something they don't always enjoy, or they just forget it and move on.

I play both, so I couldn't care less. Just pointing out that there has been a huge imbalance in the content you need to play to actually obtain stuff in this game.

Name me 1 thing outside of vigor, barrier and warhorn you actually have to PVP to get.

If any, it's the tinniest fraction of things you need enter PVE for to obtain.

What lead drops from IC anyway?

I gotchyou fam. All of these are according to Alcast's site, so there's literally only three.

• Malacath’s Brutal Rune Core (Mythic piece); Upper District Bosses, Can also drop from Safebox in Bal Foyen. (Dig Site in Bal Foyen)
• Jeweled Skull of Ayleid Kings (Gold; Furniture); Lead drops in Cyrodiil Treasure Chests or Heavy Sacks, Imperial City upper District Bosses (Only dig site is in Glenumbra)
• Hecatomb Tassets (Mythic piece); Lead drops in IMPERIAL CITY from General Kryozote & Krosogar, Imperial City Sewers (Only dig site is in Khenarthi’s Roost)

Integral1900

It’s all because some [snip] at ZOS keeps trying to get PVE players into PVP and vice versa by putting stuff they need there that can’t be gotten any other way. The same applies the other way around, why keep forcing PVP players to PVE. Accept that they are two utterly different games and be done with it!

Is this company truly so dumb that it thinks players will take up a game mode PVE or PVP that they fundamentally do not like simply because there is some shiny stuff in there!

I am enjoying antiquities for the fascinating lore but as soon as I realised that parts of these mythic items would require PVP I simply put those bits on the list of stuff I’m not going to bother with. I will find the stuff in PVE and enjoy the lore, that’s it.

I have all the sympathy in the world for players being forced to do any kind of content they don’t want to do. After all this is a game and it should first and foremost be about the pleasure of the person playing it. Not some fatuous attempt to get them to enjoy a game mode they fundamentally do not want to take part in!

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Major_Lag

Integral1900 wrote: »

Is this company truly so dumb that it thinks players will take up a game mode PVE or PVP that they fundamentally do not like simply because there is some shiny stuff in there!

Actually, yes, some of those players will.
I know a few players who initially refused to participate in PvP, but when they tried it (for the PvE rewards) they found that they actually liked it, and stayed.

But that's strictly a minority.

Most of the PvE-only players initial reaction to PvP is "oof, what just happened - what was it that killed me in no time flat?" and/or "WTF, I feel like I'm doing no damage to this guy".
Usually followed by "screw this crap, I'm not cut out for this broken BS".

kind_hero

Glurin wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

But players who complain about this are those with a low tolerance for failure, the ones who don't like to die in pve or pvp, usually the type of players who leave the group after a wipe. They want to be carried or easy drops/lootboxes.

No, actually we just have a low tolerance for asshattery. We do not find it in any way fun to be arbitrarily denied access to content by some jerk who thinks it's funny to gank and teabag people who don't have a chance against him. At least with a PvE grind you have access to the content and can make as many attempts as you like whenever you like. In PvP situations, you may not have any practical choice beyond leaving and trying again another day.

This is just the way you see things ("asshattery"). PvP is a very competitive place, and people will take advantage of anything to win. They don't care that you are just casually going through the area to complete a quest or farm a lead. Even though I dislike being ganked (who does, btw), I acknowledge this is part of the game, and PvP has this element of surprise and unpredictablilty that makes people play the same maps for years. Just keep at it, but if you get owned by someone and that person or group controls the area, better leave and try some other time. Unlike PvE, those players will most likely not be there next time.

This game PvP is quite mild compared to what happened in other games many years ago. In vanilla WoW if you were on a PvP server, you could have been ganked and griefed for hours by certain high level rogues (same like nighblades in ESO), that were camping your "corpse" and the graveyard were you could spawn, so they would kill you repeatedly, and you could not do anything about it (you could not port out or res somewhere else). Yeah.. those were jerks. But in ESO such things can't happen unless you like to bang your head against the same wall. There are many ways to achieve even a PvP goal. You just have to be patient and join a group, ask friends to help you. I doubt that a sniper/ganker whatever will be so successful against a group of 3-4 people.

LukosCreyden

PvP is a big part of the game. It is absolutely ok to not like it, but if you go into a PvP zone, you should prepare for it.

You can do what I do: have a set up dedicated for gathering/fishing in a pvp zone.
The goal of the build is to make your character as obnoxious and annoying to fight as possible. Make yourself as tanky as possible and fill your bars with defensive skills and "annoy" skills.
You don't need to be a pvper to make this work.
Most players will avoid you as soon as they see you health bar. The rest will likely get bored when they realise they can't make your health dip. Sure, you will likely be unable to kill them either, but that isnt the point.

Eifleber

Sephyr wrote: »

• Malacath’s Brutal Rune Core (Mythic piece); Upper District Bosses, Can also drop from Safebox in Bal Foyen. (Dig Site in Bal Foyen)
• Jeweled Skull of Ayleid Kings (Gold; Furniture); Lead drops in Cyrodiil Treasure Chests or Heavy Sacks, Imperial City upper District Bosses (Only dig site is in Glenumbra)
• Hecatomb Tassets (Mythic piece); Lead drops in IMPERIAL CITY from General Kryozote & Krosogar, Imperial City Sewers (Only dig site is in Khenarthi’s Roost)

So two rings and a furniture item:

Malacath's Band of Brutality
Set bonus: (1 item) Increases your damage done by 25%. You cannot deal critical damage.
* 1 piece in Imperial City

Bloodlord's Embrace
Set bonus: (1 item) Dealing damage with a Bash attack places a persistent, un-cleansable Blood Curse on an enemy. You can only have one Blood Cursed enemy at a time and dealing additional Bash damage moves the Blood Curse. Blocking an attack from a Blood Cursed enemy restores 1535 Magicka to you. This effect can occur every 1 second.
* 1 piece in Imperial City Sewers

Jeweled Skull of Ayleid Kings
Traditional Furnishings, Undercroft
* 1 piece drops from Cyrodiil Chest in Newt Cave or Imperial City upper District Bosses

BlueRaven

Sephyr wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

People are complaining about not getting leads immediately because they want all the items this week

The Antiquities system is something that was added which contributes to the long term of the game.
Which is why there are leads everywhere.

You may not like PvP having leads but I’m sure there are various PvP players who appreciate it.

Of course people are hating the grind if all they’re doing is farming leads. It’s supposed to be something you do as you play - like crafting.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea that there are leads for pvp play, I think having them be exclusive is the issue.

And again there are literally dozens of leads that are locked behind PvE activities that PvPers don't like to do. Fishing. Dungeons. Trials. Pathfinder achievements which include delve completions. There are leads that are only exclusive to those activities. This is why a lot of people think that PvEers have a chip on their shoulder. Everyone has to suffer through THEIR content, but Mara forbid it if they actually have to do something they don't want to to get a special item from the system.

If they made what is now exclusive pve leads also drop in pvp I would not care, just as long as they all drop in pve. Why should one form or the other have exclusives for that type of game play?

The same argument works in reversal. The. Other. Leads. In. Raids. Do. Not. Drop. In. PvP. Literally most leads do NOT drop in PvP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I don't understand. Did I not just say have all leads that drop in PvE also drop in PvP and vice versa? I honestly don't care.

Have monster helms drop in PvP, it's fine with me. Why should any of that bother me?

I wasn't talking about monster helms. There are literally leads that are locked behind PvE activities. Fishing. Trials. Dungeons. It doesn't take but 20 seconds to google this or look on Alcast's website. They can't get most of those leads by participating in PvP and are ONLY FOUND IN PVE, so why should YOU be that special in having a select few (literally, there's just 8 of them compared to how many PvE leads?) that are locked behind PvP? It's not hard to understand unless you're birdboxing the point in which case, I have better things to deal with if you're going to go "BUT PVP" all day. If you don't want to PvP, you don't need the leads. Simple. If I have to put up with finding leads only found in fishing, dungeons, and raids, you have to put up with only a couple in the IC and Cyrodiil.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

People are complaining about not getting leads immediately because they want all the items this week

The Antiquities system is something that was added which contributes to the long term of the game.
Which is why there are leads everywhere.

You may not like PvP having leads but I’m sure there are various PvP players who appreciate it.

Of course people are hating the grind if all they’re doing is farming leads. It’s supposed to be something you do as you play - like crafting.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea that there are leads for pvp play, I think having them be exclusive is the issue.

And again there are literally dozens of leads that are locked behind PvE activities that PvPers don't like to do. Fishing. Dungeons. Trials. Pathfinder achievements which include delve completions. There are leads that are only exclusive to those activities. This is why a lot of people think that PvEers have a chip on their shoulder. Everyone has to suffer through THEIR content, but Mara forbid it if they actually have to do something they don't want to to get a special item from the system.

If they made what is now exclusive pve leads also drop in pvp I would not care, just as long as they all drop in pve. Why should one form or the other have exclusives for that type of game play?

“... they actually have to do something they don't want to...” Ummm yeah, that’s why the OP made the thread.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Normally I hate IC and avoid it. Don't care to do it, not fun getting ganked.

But now there are leads in IC.

So now I get to wade through more of the F-ing annoying petty 13 year old crap.

Way to increase resentment and misery

I don’t understand your argument, do you want pvers to not like pvp more? Or do you think a person who dislikes pvp will suddenly “switch” to liking it?

BlueRaven wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

People are complaining about not getting leads immediately because they want all the items this week

The Antiquities system is something that was added which contributes to the long term of the game.
Which is why there are leads everywhere.

You may not like PvP having leads but I’m sure there are various PvP players who appreciate it.

Of course people are hating the grind if all they’re doing is farming leads. It’s supposed to be something you do as you play - like crafting.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea that there are leads for pvp play, I think having them be exclusive is the issue.

And again there are literally dozens of leads that are locked behind PvE activities that PvPers don't like to do. Fishing. Dungeons. Trials. Pathfinder achievements which include delve completions. There are leads that are only exclusive to those activities. This is why a lot of people think that PvEers have a chip on their shoulder. Everyone has to suffer through THEIR content, but Mara forbid it if they actually have to do something they don't want to to get a special item from the system.

If they made what is now exclusive pve leads also drop in pvp I would not care, just as long as they all drop in pve. Why should one form or the other have exclusives for that type of game play?

The same argument works in reversal. The. Other. Leads. In. Raids. Do. Not. Drop. In. PvP. Literally most leads do NOT drop in PvP. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I don't understand. Did I not just say have all leads that drop in PvE also drop in PvP and vice versa? I honestly don't care.

Have monster helms drop in PvP, it's fine with me. Why should any of that bother me?

I don’t know what you are on about at this point. I think it’s poor design to have pve rewards that pvpers can’t get and also the reverse. Do you think I am saying otherwise?