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Leads in IC; if you wanted us to hate PvP even more... this was it
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Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
For the covenant 💪I for one ensure the covenant are hard at work defending all our lands. Imperial city is part of our territory and thus will be contested as rival inferiors attempt to take our lands and riches.
Some players try to ruin the immersive roleplaying experience of the 3 banner war by calling them 13 year olds. Tell them to shape up or ship out. The covenant has no room for cowards and weaklings... and if you arent carrying that banner, your opinion isnt valued in tamriel.
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Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭IC is a ghost town minus collectively two weeks in a year it’s nice that ZoS added these to a PvP zone brings fresh faces into content that maybe they’re never experienced.Edited by Fur_like_snow on June 8, 2020 8:33PM3 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I have to do pve content in a pve oriented game!? Gasp! The horror of it! This special mindset never gets old lol.
You could always stop hiding in an MMO centered around pve and play a real pvp game. Of course you'd always be facing opponents that want to fight but don't let something as small as a challenge stop you.
PvP Players in a PvE oriented game complaining about having to do PvE content and actually thinking it's the same as PvE players complaining about having to participate in pvp content that even the devs have abandoned and written off. Madness I tell you.
You may want to reread the OP. I think you are confused about this thread. It was not started by a PvPer. Having players demand access on their terms to every item is ridiculous.
Imagine making a post claiming developers have abandoned pvp in a thread complaining about developers adding things to pvp zones.
That said... this game has two full zones dedicated to PvP. Regardless of other aspects that speak to lack of support of the PvP community, claiming pvpers should find a real pvp game is stupid. Stop being toxic.
Nope, not confused. I'm responding to the pvpers complaining about having to do pve content in a pve oriented game.
I get it though, lots of people who claim to be Pvper's are really only interested in fighting players who are no match for them.
That I'm used to. Not use to players hiding in 2 whole zones complaining about pve content instead of playing games that are aimed at true Pvper's with an entire game dedicated to them.
The game is marketed at both PvE and PvP, it didn't even have trials in the beginning.
Players that don't even PvP make the most noise.
Except I'm not complaining about pvp, dying to Pvper's in a pvp zone or anything like that am I? I'm responding to Pvper's making the most noise about having to participate in pve content in a pve oriented game. Point of fact I do both and love a good zerg or a romp through BG'S.
Marketed at both? At the beginning sure. X amount of years later and there's a whopping 2 whole zones dedicated to pvp, one considered a complete failure by most that fails to attract either Pvper's or pver's.
You are entitled to your opinion of course but not everyone shares it.
Likewise my friend, likewise.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Boohoo... Cry me a river. When I wanted stuff from PvE you know what I did? I soloed group dungs, because I hate to wait and ask others to help me, I've created my own builds that are able to being jack of all trades: tanky, deal damage and self heal, and you know what?
You were slow and needlessly inefficient?
Backbar resto staff, front bar damage, slot basic healing skills, pug normal dungeons as healer, profit.
I swear, some of you get so wound up about pugging. 90% of the time the experience is fine, and if you do the above, the rest of the time you can carry a group.0 -
Dzadzey✭✭✭
TO be quite honest there shouldn't be ANY content/loot/merch/treasure that isn't available to a solo PvE player to obtain through their own efforts and no fears of getting ganked or requiring group play.8 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »[Quoted post was removed]
I'm curious. How do you accidentally queue up for Cyrodiil, Imperial City, or Battlegrounds if you don't want to be there?
Imagine deliberately queueing up for a PVP-enabled zone and then getting upset when PVP happens. Maybe it would be wise for such players to swap to a PVE-only game or stick to the PVE-only zones?
Killing a player as he's finishing off a boss isn't pvp now is it? Getting ganked as you come out of a dialogue with an npc is pvping? That's not pvp, that's simply (PKing) player killing.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
You mean to say that a PvPvE zone in which bosses grant Tel Var and killing players nets you half their Tel Var isn't explicitly designed to...hmmm...kill players and get their stuff?
ZOS knows that, you know.
Its kind of hard to miss that when its been a major part of IC since launch and players complain about it every single time they feel compelled to set foot in a PVP zone by the fear of missing out.
ZOS designed Imperial City and Cyrodiil for "player killing." There's "kill X players" quests. There's achievements for killing players. There's AP rewards for killing players. There's even an achievement for killing 100 players in the Imperial City Arena which is a quest location.
In other words, while you might not find it sporting, I find it very hard to believe that you can queue up for a PVP-enabled zone and not expect enemy players to try to kill you. ZOS certainly expects them to and encourages them to, even in the middle of a quest boss fight arena. If you object to "player killing," just give the PVP zones a miss.
And keep in mind, ZOS knows all of the above...and still put leads in Imperial City.
No one is talking about Tel-var and you know it. Last time I checked killing other players doesn't net you their lead, nor do you have to kill unsuspecting players in order to fulfill said quests. Just an excuse to justify a terrible mindset and horrible behavior. Plenty of opportunities to kill other players who, you know, want to fight you back.
You're right though, I don't find it sporting or honorable to kill a player who is obviously doing a quest or something similar, regardless if I'm technically allowed to. Yes, I'm using a broad paintbrush to describe ESO pvp and not all actively avoid real pvp or seek out easy targets, but they are a minority from my experience surrounded by the bad. We all know the bad ones exist, easily identified every time there is an event and they flood the complaints with laughter and glee. Yea let's pretend like they don't exist or most share this mindset.
However I understand not everyone plays games for the same reason nor does everyone operate with integrity and honor, but these are the same people who constantly complain about how easy and boring pve is yet relish at the thought of ganking unsuspecting players.
It's my fault for expecting more from ESO'S pvp community. You're right, Zos does continue to try and breath life into pvp with items whenever possible, better to have falsely inflated numbers for a failed segment than admit and acknowledge failure.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway3 -
Haquor✭✭✭✭✭
'Malacath's brutal rune core for Malacath's Band of Brutality drops from upper IC bosses.
'Hecatomb Tassets' for Bloodlords Embrace drops from General Kryozote in IC sewers.
Also, 'Magicka Imbued Metal Plates' for
Snow treaders drops from the Cyrodil delve Underpall Cave boss Raelynne Ashham.
I can empathise with both sides.
Being wrecked by players while doing pve content should be a choice (yes i know you dont HAVE to have the mythic items).
And doing pve for the vast majority of gear if all you play the game for is pvp would also suck.
Im thankful I enjoy both.
Edited by Haquor on June 8, 2020 10:18PM0 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭
TO be quite honest there shouldn't be ANY content/loot/merch/treasure that isn't available to a solo PvE player to obtain through their own efforts and no fears of getting ganked or requiring group play.
So players should get trial skins and godslayer titles for solo play? They shouldn’t be required to group up to earn those prizes?5 -
Dzadzey✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »
TO be quite honest there shouldn't be ANY content/loot/merch/treasure that isn't available to a solo PvE player to obtain through their own efforts and no fears of getting ganked or requiring group play.
So players should get trial skins and godslayer titles for solo play? They shouldn’t be required to group up to earn those prizes?
The exceptions that prove the rule, or not. Since the mainline quest ends up with the player solo killing Molag Bal...seems a distinction without a difference.1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Deathlord92 wrote: »I don’t see what so difficult about looking up a pvp build for your favourite class there’s even guides on how to pvp.
Because for those of us who create characters, not “builds,” doing this DESTROYS our characters. Never gonna happen.3 -
nesakinter✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »
TO be quite honest there shouldn't be ANY content/loot/merch/treasure that isn't available to a solo PvE player to obtain through their own efforts and no fears of getting ganked or requiring group play.
So players should get trial skins and godslayer titles for solo play? They shouldn’t be required to group up to earn those prizes?
The exceptions that prove the rule, or not. Since the mainline quest ends up with the player solo killing Molag Bal...seems a distinction without a difference.
You know this is a MMOrpg right?2 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »
TO be quite honest there shouldn't be ANY content/loot/merch/treasure that isn't available to a solo PvE player to obtain through their own efforts and no fears of getting ganked or requiring group play.
So players should get trial skins and godslayer titles for solo play? They shouldn’t be required to group up to earn those prizes?
The exceptions that prove the rule, or not. Since the mainline quest ends up with the player solo killing Molag Bal...seems a distinction without a difference.
You said lots of words but didn’t answer the question. Yes or no players should be able to solo trials for trial rewards? I just wanna know where some of you stand and how far you’re willing to push this casual PvE narrative. Also the main quest line did not end with killing Molag Bal it’s continued in the DLC chapters, which coincidently is where the new group trials are.4 -
Dzadzey✭✭✭nesakinter wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »
TO be quite honest there shouldn't be ANY content/loot/merch/treasure that isn't available to a solo PvE player to obtain through their own efforts and no fears of getting ganked or requiring group play.
So players should get trial skins and godslayer titles for solo play? They shouldn’t be required to group up to earn those prizes?
The exceptions that prove the rule, or not. Since the mainline quest ends up with the player solo killing Molag Bal...seems a distinction without a difference.
You know this is a MMOrpg right?
Very much so. There are more than a few successful MMORPG's that don't require team/group play to be successful in the game.0 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Deathlord92 wrote: »I don’t see what so difficult about looking up a pvp build for your favourite class there’s even guides on how to pvp.
Because for those of us who create characters, not “builds,” doing this DESTROYS our characters. Never gonna happen.
Then you have to live with the consequence of sub-optimal decisions. This is a multiplayer game. Certain tactics are going to be more viable than others. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from swapping to a PvP set-up and then swapping back to something more suitable for roleplaying, questing, etc.10 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Deathlord92 wrote: »I don’t see what so difficult about looking up a pvp build for your favourite class there’s even guides on how to pvp.
I pvp'd with a friend's guild on a pvp server in WoW. I "got gud" yup. I hated every minute of it. It was never fun, not one time. And after I left WoW for RIFT, I left pvp behind as well. I'm certainly not going to pvp in this game, not for anything. There's nothing I need that bad now that I got my four characters through fishing in Cyrodiil for the Master Fisher boat.
And since I'm not even going to touch Greymoor until it's a DLC so free with ESO+, I won't be doing antiquities until next year either. At that point, I'll see how grindy it is, and who knows whether I'll do it at all (I remember how burnt out I got on the similar thing in WoW). I certainly won't be worrying about stuff that's only available in pvp-land; I don't have any need for any of it at all.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Deathlord92 wrote: »I don’t see what so difficult about looking up a pvp build for your favourite class there’s even guides on how to pvp.
Because for those of us who create characters, not “builds,” doing this DESTROYS our characters. Never gonna happen.
Then you have to live with the consequence of sub-optimal decisions. This is a multiplayer game. Certain tactics are going to be more viable than others. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from swapping to a PvP set-up and then swapping back to something more suitable for roleplaying, questing, etc.
This should be much less of a problem now that there is base crit resistance built into characters.
Grouping up with a couple of friends or guild mates makes a huge difference.
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Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »IC is a ghost town minus collectively two weeks in a year it’s nice that ZoS added these to a PvP zone brings fresh faces into content that maybe they’re never experienced.
And sadly there's a certain subset of people who immediately think "great, I can make an enormous ass of myself and make someone elses life miserable at the same time whee". And a lot of those fresh faces never come back.
2 weeks later the "enormous ass" people are wondering why zos won't allocate scarce resources to improve the PvP experience, and how hard done by they are, demonstrating, once again, long term thinking skills are a rarity in todays society.6 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »IC is a ghost town minus collectively two weeks in a year it’s nice that ZoS added these to a PvP zone brings fresh faces into content that maybe they’re never experienced.
And sadly there's a certain subset of people who immediately think "great, I can make an enormous ass of myself and make someone elses life miserable at the same time whee". And a lot of those fresh faces never come back.
2 weeks later the "enormous ass" people are wondering why zos won't allocate scarce resources to improve the PvP experience, and how hard done by they are, demonstrating, once again, long term thinking skills are a rarity in todays society.
Killing another player in a PvP zone isn’t inherently toxic behavior it’s intended design 🤦🏼. That is just how you chose to interpret the situation.
Zeni chooses to invest in the crown store because that’s the money pot lets be honest. housing and all the other cosmetic junk is more like digital Barbie doll dress up mini game than PvE dungeon or trials.Edited by Fur_like_snow on June 8, 2020 11:35PM6 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »People are complaining about not getting leads immediately because they want all the items this week
The Antiquities system is something that was added which contributes to the long term of the game.
Which is why there are leads everywhere.
You may not like PvP having leads but I’m sure there are various PvP players who appreciate it.
Of course people are hating the grind if all they’re doing is farming leads. It’s supposed to be something you do as you play - like crafting.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea that there are leads for pvp play, I think having them be exclusive is the issue.
And again there are literally dozens of leads that are locked behind PvE activities that PvPers don't like to do. Fishing. Dungeons. Trials. Pathfinder achievements which include delve completions. There are leads that are only exclusive to those activities. This is why a lot of people think that PvEers have a chip on their shoulder. Everyone has to suffer through THEIR content, but Mara forbid it if they actually have to do something they don't want to to get a special item from the system.
There's a massive difference between a chore you can just hold your nose and do when you're in a mental state to do an unpleasant or boring task, and one where your entire ability to do it relies on others allowing you to do it and even intentionally annoying you and making it as miserable as possible.
Leads probably shouldn't be in such easily blocked PVP or Vet Trials.
By that argument, leads also shouldn't be easily blocked with the following;- Fishing in places like Artaeum where there's literally over a dozen people fishing in one spot, drying up the fishing hole in literally two casts or less.
- In dungeons that take over 50 tries to get said lead.
- Lockboxes and the Justice System.
- Spam killing wolves.
- Spam killing Dwarven Spiders.
- A bunch of mudcrabs on the beach.
There's something on the current list on how leads are that annoys everyone as I'm sure there's more than what I listed. There's nothing wrong with leads being in both PvP and raids. There's nothing wrong with leads being gated behind fishing. It's all behind a system that is now just a little more consistent as PvPers have to suffer through the grind of Undaunted to get max stats with the 5/1/1 ratio as well as farming their monster helms and gear because the Golden is not only on rotation, but also doesn't sell everything. The consistency matters.2 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Nope, not confused. I'm responding to the pvpers complaining about having to do pve content in a pve oriented game.
I get it though, lots of people who claim to be Pvper's are really only interested in fighting players who are no match for them.
That I'm used to. Not use to players hiding in 2 whole zones complaining about pve content instead of playing games that are aimed at true Pvper's with an entire game dedicated to them.
This thread is a PvE'er complaining about PvP, lol. The response was "Hey, we're all doing things we don't normally do!"
The majority of PvPers I know want even, fun fights. Lots of people like ganking, sure, but a lot of us like even fights. The reason I have always lamented the lack of instanced two team deathmatch rated gameplay is because I love competitive, even matches.
Some of us like MMORPG PvP. Why are you so anti-Pvper, anyway? Lose some fights? Just curious. I guess ESO PvP can be rough to get into
Sorry for your bad experience. 3 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
TO be quite honest there shouldn't be ANY content/loot/merch/treasure that isn't available to a solo PvE player to obtain through their own efforts and no fears of getting ganked or requiring group play.
I'm sorry but this I had to comment on.
The game that does what you describe is called Skyrim, I believe. You're confusing it with this one, which is an online multiplayer game, a huge portion of which naturally revolves around player interaction and grouping up in order to achieve specific goals and get specific prizes.9 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nope, not confused. I'm responding to the pvpers complaining about having to do pve content in a pve oriented game.
I get it though, lots of people who claim to be Pvper's are really only interested in fighting players who are no match for them.
That I'm used to. Not use to players hiding in 2 whole zones complaining about pve content instead of playing games that are aimed at true Pvper's with an entire game dedicated to them.
This thread is a PvE'er complaining about PvP, lol. The response was "Hey, we're all doing things we don't normally do!"
The majority of PvPers I know want even, fun fights. Lots of people like ganking, sure, but a lot of us like even fights. The reason I have always lamented the lack of instanced two team deathmatch rated gameplay is because I love competitive, even matches.
Some of us like MMORPG PvP. Why are you so anti-Pvper, anyway? Lose some fights? Just curious. I guess ESO PvP can be rough to get into Sorry for your bad experience.
Problem is, and this was my problem both getting into pvp way back when I was doing that, as well as IC, is that there is a large enough group of pvp'ers who seem to only care about giving as many newer players as bad of a first impression as possible. When people want to go into a zone just to quickly get a lead, or a skill, or what have you, and their first experience of pvp is to be constantly ganked with no chance to even know what happened, they aren't going to ever want to go back. IC by its nature doesn't really encourage the fairest of fights either so mostly the ganked and the gankers are the two groups there and only one of them normally has a good time. You only need to look at how people treated the influx of players during the 5th year pvp week to see just how unappealing the concept of pvp can be made in a short time.1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Deathlord92 wrote: »I don’t see what so difficult about looking up a pvp build for your favourite class there’s even guides on how to pvp.
Because for those of us who create characters, not “builds,” doing this DESTROYS our characters. Never gonna happen.
Then you have to live with the consequence of sub-optimal decisions.
Uhm... what? There's nothing "sub-optimal" about my decisions. I carefully craft my characters to fit the character concept I'm going for as optimally as I can given the limits of the game system. I also balance this against being able to do the kinds of content I like doing, which does NOT include PvP... mainly because the PvP in this game is laggy garbage.Edited by Starlock on June 9, 2020 12:42AM0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Deathlord92 wrote: »I don’t see what so difficult about looking up a pvp build for your favourite class there’s even guides on how to pvp.
Because for those of us who create characters, not “builds,” doing this DESTROYS our characters. Never gonna happen.
Then you have to live with the consequence of sub-optimal decisions. This is a multiplayer game. Certain tactics are going to be more viable than others. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from swapping to a PvP set-up and then swapping back to something more suitable for roleplaying, questing, etc.
This should be much less of a problem now that there is base crit resistance built into characters.
Grouping up with a couple of friends or guild mates makes a huge difference.
This is something I'm interested in testing out. I will never build a character for PvP because it's a crappy game mode IMHO, but I have (sort of) enjoyed it when going with guild folks. Problem is my social guilds kind of bellied up so I really don't have anyone to run with now... much less go into a place as terrible as IC sewers. Just gonna ignore it entirely.0 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No matter what anyone says about how to prepare...
In Imperial City there HAS always been players finding ways to grief other players.
Do you guys remember all the streams of using teleport to camp safe spots in Imperial City Sewers?
It was an entire long event where people would die instantly after a load screen into next section.1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nope, not confused. I'm responding to the pvpers complaining about having to do pve content in a pve oriented game.
I get it though, lots of people who claim to be Pvper's are really only interested in fighting players who are no match for them.
That I'm used to. Not use to players hiding in 2 whole zones complaining about pve content instead of playing games that are aimed at true Pvper's with an entire game dedicated to them.
This thread is a PvE'er complaining about PvP, lol. The response was "Hey, we're all doing things we don't normally do!"
The majority of PvPers I know want even, fun fights. Lots of people like ganking, sure, but a lot of us like even fights. The reason I have always lamented the lack of instanced two team deathmatch rated gameplay is because I love competitive, even matches.
Some of us like MMORPG PvP. Why are you so anti-Pvper, anyway? Lose some fights? Just curious. I guess ESO PvP can be rough to get into Sorry for your bad experience.
I do both PvE and PvP. While you're asking them their bad experience with PvP, I'd figure I'd include mine with PvE.
In PvE I can count on one hand how many times I've actually had a genuinely fun "that was awesome" experience. Trying to get started in PvE progression not only required a lot of gold, it required a lot of knowing and understanding mechanics and every guild I tried to join and ask questions to learn I was effectively booted because I was too much of a 'noob' before I even got a chance to really apply what I learned from my mistakes. I wasn't a jerk, I was asking for mechanics ahead of the fight in voice to which I was promptly ignored and then literally yelled at because I died to a mechanic that wasn't even explained beforehand. I was booted from PuGs back in the day (Veteran Rank days) because I wasn't wearing effective gear or not wearing a specific monster set that they wanted. So I started playing in PvP instead where all that mattered at the time was how many pieces of Nirnhoned you were wearing for survivability. Those were the days.
A bit later when vMA came out, I was a bit better because I was dabbling in PvP and was making clears pretty well. I was in a PvE guild that I won't mention and I expressed just a small complaint that I wish it was easier to farm for the weapons because I don't like grinding it and I was told that if I didn't suck it up that I didn't "belong" in PvE. This was after half a year already grinding it. I had already trash vendored weapons I needed that had the wrong trait and Transmutation wasn't a thing yet. Once that guild made those weapons and Flawless a requirement, I was booted because I wasn't adhering to BiS guides. I still farmed six more months before I got what I needed in the trait I needed and even got my Flawless, but it still didn't leave me feeling any more rewarded for my own solo progression. PvEers had effectively blocked my progression with the game with the raiding content and I gave up for years to the point I left the game for a few years. I had lost all semblance of hope because I thought I had failed.
When I came back, I bit the bullet and went full in with PvP. Despite the harrowing stories I had heard about ESO PvP, I found myself making friends. Not too long after One Tamriel rolled around and I found myself making even MORE friends in PvP. All of them were willing to help me learn PvE mechanics because I had mentioned how bad of an experience I've had with it. And you know what? Those were some of my BEST experiences of this entire game. I felt like there was true camaraderie, despite our alliance allegiances and they genuinely got me through a lot of the things I wanted to progress through. If I died to a mechanic? Sure. I got some crouch dips in my face! But I wasn't being bullied. I was humorously told "LEL GIT GUD" and then had the "Okay, seriously this is what happened and here's what you can do since this is your playstyle." They knew and understood me to the point where their recommendations only made me better at both modes of the game. They didn't backseat game. They didn't bully me or berate me. They took me under their wing and genuinely acted like human beings which is miles more than what I got from PvEers. I found out that most of the 'bullies' in PvP are those standing up for themselves against PvEers who callously treat them like second class gamers - that their opinions and feelings 100% do NOT matter. To me, PvPers are the backbone as of why I'm still trying to hang in there with my own PvE progression. Not PvEers.3 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved."Get off my lawn!"5 -
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Thank you for your understanding,
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Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I went to get the lead in IC. The room was full of EP. I switched to n EP character. Problem solved.
I just have DC toons and was able to find the lead in four bosses. I was only ganked twice and PvPers were letting people tag the bosses most of the time as well as grabbing your loot and leaving. Good on you guys!
3 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It’s definitely working - I see more friends and guildies going to IC, requesting help and, after a while, getting the leads... I see more guilds doing IC runs specifically for this...
Not a fan of IC as a solo player (not good enough at the duelling/single combat element), but I’ve had stupid fun going there with groups...
Can’t imagine the carnage when MYM rolls around....3
This discussion has been closed.