Why is this game so easy?

khajiitNPC

Go duo some dragons in Elsweyr or world bosses in Elsweyr.

Coppes

He’s saying that overland content is too easy. He’s not saying that everything is too easy.

So saying “Wait until vet trials” isn’t meaning anything here.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun

OP: "I'm not talking about raids or dungeons"
Everyone else: "But what about raids and dungeons...!?"

Putting that aside, I agree. For the majority of the game you can, literally, faceroll your way through it. I wish they'd take the SWTOR route and have difficulty settings for the world/quests.

kichwas

Overland is not built for the challenge it's built for the quests and story.

Have you listened to the voice acting and followed the quests in this game? They beat every other MMO out there. The only exception is the more recent parts of the FFXIV Main Story... but NOT the rest of FFXIV's quests.

Casual regular quests in this game are great story content.

And to do that they're also easy enough for anyone to enjoy that story.


Low level dungeons are also easy to give people some casual fun.

I just hit m first 50 and... it ramps up dramatically in the dungeon content once you unlock the DLC stuff. and folks tell me those are sill easy compared to the vets and trials...
- So player challenge is on that end... story is on the other.


This game honestly has the most enjoyable overland of any MMO I've played since 2005... it's got great stories in those quests.

Sarousse

kichwas wrote: »

Overland is not built for the challenge it's built for the quests and story.

Yes it was. It was challenging (and fun and we remembered about strong enemies kicking our arses) before a megaton of [snip] asked for less difficulty.

It's an elder scrolls game, it's supposed to be challenging, it's not WoW.

[edited for baiting]

Raammzzaa

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

OP: "I'm not talking about raids or dungeons"
Everyone else: "But what about raids and dungeons...!?"

Putting that aside, I agree. For the majority of the game you can, literally, faceroll your way through it. I wish they'd take the SWTOR route and have difficulty settings for the world/quests.

So, OP is not talking about actual end-game that is designed to be challenging being too easy. OP is simply stating that beginner level questing and overland content is too easy...

I don't disagree with that assessment at all, but I think that content is supposed to be easy to allow new players access, learn, and enjoy the game. The OP shared that they are not even level 50 yet. Perhaps playing a little longer and then diving into actual vet content is something they should consider?

Coppes

kichwas wrote: »

Have you listened to the voice acting and followed the quests in this game? They beat every other MMO out there. The only exception is the more recent parts of the FFXIV Main Story... but NOT the rest of FFXIV's quests.

That’s subjective though.

Elsonso

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

Overland is not the universal faceroll being described. I wish some players would group up for overland quest content. They need it.

MartiniDaniels

Coppes wrote: »

show previous quotes

kichwas wrote: »

Have you listened to the voice acting and followed the quests in this game? They beat every other MMO out there. The only exception is the more recent parts of the FFXIV Main Story... but NOT the rest of FFXIV's quests.

That’s subjective though.

Yeah. Despite my love for TES universe and indifference to WoW universe, WoW questing looked more interesting and varied... as for the voicing of course there are some amazing characters and quests in ESO, but not all of them - far from it. While some games (single-player though) can be entirely carried by story/cutsceneces/voicing ESO is not such game. There is ton of filler quests like go there close 4 portals and then kill 3 daedra and NPC who gives this quest looks like he understands how un-inspired this quest is and his/her voice is plain and emotionless or emotions sound very forced and unnatural.
Strangely enough, voicing and writing in dungeons is really amazing, so for me it looks like artists understand if what they voice over makes sense and if quest is just a filler, voicing is made like a filler too.

svartorn

Jakx wrote: »

OP's post summarized without so many words:

Hi, I just started playing this game. The highest level I have ever gotten is level 40. I have done zero end game content. I likely have zero clue how to properly light weave let alone push 90k DPS. I am here to tell the game in my 3 days of play it needs to change entirely because LEVELING content is easy.

See you in the DLC vets and Vet Trials tomorrow?

Yep.

He'll be the cp 10 guy in vet unhallowed grave.

"why did they kick me?!?!"

Everstorm

Though they can be soloed some of the delves and instances in Craglorn are a decent challenge for two persons.
They nerfed the once needed for the storyline but the rest is a nice change of pace.

khajiitNPC

idk — yeah the overland for the most part is easy, especially when grouped with one or more people.

Although I did create a fresh new account (max lvl toons on my main account all character slots filled), and obviously can’t do the same pulls with a max CP low level toon.

OP is your friend low lvl or does he have CP?

@ElliottXO i mean, if you want a challenge remove your CP and solo regular vet dungeons. Most of it is doable, and I find it a fun challenge.

kichwas

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

show previous quotes

Coppes wrote: »

kichwas wrote: »

Have you listened to the voice acting and followed the quests in this game? They beat every other MMO out there. The only exception is the more recent parts of the FFXIV Main Story... but NOT the rest of FFXIV's quests.

That’s subjective though.

Yeah. Despite my love for TES universe and indifference to WoW universe, WoW questing looked more interesting and varied... as for the voicing of course there are some amazing characters and quests in ESO, but not all of them - far from it.

WoW questing is just 'kill 12 rats' and then watch a cutscene of NPCs and their story, not yours.

So I guess this is subjective - because I found WoW's questing to be the worst in any MMO with actual questing (As in, Black Desert Online is worse, because they more or less have no story).

Robo_Hobo

Unfortunately OP, if you like your storytelling/questing experience to have a bit of challenge or even just a risk of death/failure then ESO will not provide that. You get plenty of storytelling with no risk or challenge, or you get end-game vet dungeons/trials with plenty of risk and challenge but minimal story. You don't get an in-between of the two, it's two opposite ends of the extreme.

xXMeowMeowXx

This thread again??? Talk about beating the horses bones at this point *sigh*. Certainly that is all that could be left with how long the poor beastie has been dead.

Overland content is for questers, so it is fine how it is.

You want harder content, then do that. Get Unchained or GodSlayer.

Add in also 1 v X and run around IC with 5Ok plus tel. ( These I find rather fun myself)

Going for GodSlayer is a hateful task of misery. Something always happens to pull it just out of your reach.

Don’t say ESO is too easy if you have not even completed the harder content or seriously play PvP.

Lovely PvP where you have to constantly adjust your skills and gear from the endless nerfs....

There is a grind to this game and there is content that fits many difficulty levels. That part they did right.

Parasaurolophus

I really miss old Craglorn. I remember those difficult fights with Doshia and Mannimarco. I really want that in the future, sometimes we had interesting veteran zones. I remember that many players complained about Kraglorn, but now the game is completely different. But the problem is not only in difficult. In the end, no one wants to fight with rats for 30 seconds when you mine resources. The problem is that after completing all the quests on the location, it can be thrown out and forgotten.
Yes, the game has dungeons and trials. But they need a group. I have not been in the raid for almost a year since Claudrest + 3 closed in the last raid. And for a whole year I just went in every day to feed a horse and pick up daily rewards. I didn’t even make craft daily because I stopped paying for the subscription. There was simply nothing to do in the game. Interest in the game increased only when a couple of months ago I found a raid and now we are trying HM SS.
There is also a problem with dungeons. Gathering a group is sometimes very difficult.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

[snip]

It is absolutely silly to complain about lack of difficulty in content, this is one of the only few games where if you desire you can handicap yourself. You want double the hp for monsters, half your weapons damage... its that simple but no! You couldn't think if that. Want monsters to do twice the damage, lower your armor levels... and like magic they'll do twice the damage.

Now what you cant get is monsters doing more moves, those dangers only exist to the player until they understand the mechanics and learns to defeat them. Thats why all dungeons slowly get easier over time as players perfect the form. You cant get that hardship back ever. But you can simulate.

So please, op and folks, give it a rest, [snip]. Use the tools you have been given to handicap yourself if you feel regular questing content is too easy.... because you "can" recreate your original experience but you can't unlearn the process.

[edited for baiting/bashing]

Jeremy

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal. Questing and killing mobs is just a tedious running from A to B, only stopping to kill monsters in 2-8 seconds and it doesn't really matter how many monsters we pull either. We're basically playing an MMO that is tuned for under-geared 5-year olds. I'm saying that because my son can play this game without being able to read or have any understanding of what the skills on his hotbar do. He just mashes them randomly and kills things.

Doing delves feels so pointless. Usually you run into other players as well and everyone's just aching to kill stuff, but everything is mowed down in 2 seconds, and delves really become nothing but something you just run through, trying to get a hit or two in on things to gain exp. So incredibly boring, and such incredibly bad design.

Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player. So the moment you add more people in there, the already trivial content becomes fully and completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.

What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo. But as soon as you add a couple more players, even that content becomes quite easy. The only annoying thing is that dungeons are in general quite easy, too, but they add certain one-shot or nearly one-shot mechanics into the game to make it harder. That's a lousy way of adding challenge, because it means you can run through everything you're thrown against, but then a sudden and sometimes unavoidable mechanic prevents you from advancing further. Those are some of the most frowned-upon things from a player perspective because they're just not fun.

I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change, but overall this game needs a huge re-tuning. Doubling mob health and damage would be a start, but much more would certainly be required. Delve bosses are more like what normal mobs should be like, but even those are ridiculously easy. Would much prefer longer, harder fights with higher experience rewards per kill than the current trivial content of killing things in a few seconds without barely taking any damage.

Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?

PS: Fix the damn bug that sometimes prevents you from attacking or using abilities!!

Yes, this has long been a serious problem for this game. The overland content is way too easy for experienced players. World Bosses are really the only thing that put up an interesting fight, and that's only if you solo them. And as you say, even they become ridiculously easy if more players show up (there are a few exceptions to this rule. But not many).

I wish they would just introduce an OPTIONAL Veteran Version for each zone that scales with what ever the current CP max is, similarly to what they do with dungeons so high level characters could better enjoy the content, both old and new. They would retain more players if they did.

Malthorne

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

[snip]

It is absolutely silly to complain about lack of difficulty in content, this is one of the only few games where if you desire you can handicap yourself. You want double the hp for monsters, half your weapons damage... its that simple but no! You couldn't think if that. Want monsters to do twice the damage, lower your armor levels... and like magic they'll do twice the damage.

Now what you cant get is monsters doing more moves, those dangers only exist to the player until they understand the mechanics and learns to defeat them. Thats why all dungeons slowly get easier over time as players perfect the form. You cant get that hardship back ever. But you can simulate.

So please, op and folks, give it a rest, [snip]. Use the tools you have been given to handicap yourself if you feel regular questing content is too easy.... because you "can" recreate your original experience but you can't unlearn the process.

Wow ... I find it kind of funny that the people who want to pick flowers and kill mobs with light attacks are the toxics ones in this discussion. There is nothing wrong with players advocating for changes they would like to see.

There seems to be some support in the community for increased overland difficulty. Maybe it is best that a toggle should exist to separate players between veteran and normal difficulty zones. That way both sides can be happy. This may never happen, but ultimately it’s up to ZOS to decide. All we can do is give our feedback one way or the other.

newtinmpls

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

You just answered your own question.

Oddly, last night my husband and I gently shepherded his brother/my brother in law into beginning to create a character and playing ESO.

This guy has NO experience with MMOPRGs, basically none with any kind of online gaming; think "used to play pac-man" as the limit of it.

He was really really struggling to do even the simplest things.

Me, back shortly after launch was doing better - I'd played Morrowind for years (just not a Skyrim/Oblivion fan), and it was a real eye-opener to see just how far I'd come.

So yes, a lot of the content is easy - and when it's easy, that's a clue to hone the skills you AREN'T so sharp on; the odd things "no one uses" or weird combinations - because you have the baseline skill to play around with this.

And Kudos to ZoS for making content that allows new players - new to everything - to have a chance, while providing Undaunted, Battlegrounds, PvP and Trials for the advanced players.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. If you want "challenging content", then you need to go to where it is.

Mortiis13

Isn't this game pegi 18?
I understand zero difficulty in start zones to get comfy with how things work.
But we are all adults and this kindergarten Overland is offensiv in some way then even my 4 year old son can faceroll through it and the devs thinks I can't handle a challenge even through story and questing.

Spoiler

God I was disappointed then I met molag bal and kicked his ass like nothing

No risk, no fun. It's just that simple.
Even the best story is worthless then u can fist fight threw it with no armor.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

It is absolutely silly to complain about lack of difficulty in content, this is one of the only few games where if you desire you can handicap yourself. You want double the hp for monsters, half your weapons damage... its that simple but no! You couldn't think if that. Want monsters to do twice the damage, lower your armor levels... and like magic they'll do twice the damage.

LOL. You really think this is one of the only games where you can add/remove gear?

And taking off half your gear? Please...you could walk around butt naked and the quests/overland mobs would still be no threat.

No seriously. Try it. Remove all of your armor, go fight something and watch as they still do practically nothing to you.

Any other suggestions? Maybe we could try turning our monitors off during combat? Playing with our feet? Falling on our own swords? Oh, the possibilities.

Austinseph1

It is because overland is for casual play, and casual play is easy. While the definition of easy changes from person to person the devs tuned overworld to be easy for the majority of people. If you want to raise difficulty then do it artificially. Take off your armor pieces, its really easy to challenge yourself if you want to, but dont push your ideals on difficulty onto other layers in a multiplayer game. If you really want to then just play a single player game.

AcadianPaladin

I rather like the current spectrum of challenge available based on the content you choose to play for a given session. For those who prefer overland to be harder, the oft asked for Difficulty Slider seems like a good idea to address it.

Given that the devs can implement features such as Battle Spirit and Combat Leveling, I'm sure that, with a bit of creative ingenuity, they could come up with the equivalent of a difficulty slider.

Ydrisselle

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

show previous quotes

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

It is absolutely silly to complain about lack of difficulty in content, this is one of the only few games where if you desire you can handicap yourself. You want double the hp for monsters, half your weapons damage... its that simple but no! You couldn't think if that. Want monsters to do twice the damage, lower your armor levels... and like magic they'll do twice the damage.

LOL. You really think this is one of the only games where you can add/remove gear?

And taking off half your gear? Please...you could walk around butt naked and the quests/overland mobs would still be no threat.

No seriously. Try it. Remove all of your armor, go fight something and watch as they still do practically nothing to you.

Any other suggestions? Maybe we could try turning our monitors off during combat? Playing with our feet? Falling on our own swords? Oh, the possibilities.

It's easy - if you already know the battle mechanics and how to build your character. As long as you still don't know those, it won't be. But our experience, both from ESO and other games will mean the quests won't be hard to finish.

JBNimble

Austinseph1 wrote: »

While the definition of easy changes from person to person the devs tuned overworld to be easy for the majority of people.

Why does it need to be "easy" for the majority? Can't it be "normal" for them and "slightly difficult" for the completely brain-dead? It would still be "easy" for someone who is actually trying to play a game, and not "ridiculously trivial".
It's not I'm saying easy is automatically bad, but the solo-content (excl. arena) is not even a game anymore. Maybe a walking simulator in the best case.

Truewavesound

You’re right. Delves, overland etc is stupidly easy. Paradoxically, it’s frustrating.

There should be a difficulty slider which rewards slightly more or better quality gear when higher.

Mortac

svartorn wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jakx wrote: »

OP's post summarized without so many words:

Hi, I just started playing this game. The highest level I have ever gotten is level 40. I have done zero end game content. I likely have zero clue how to properly light weave let alone push 90k DPS. I am here to tell the game in my 3 days of play it needs to change entirely because LEVELING content is easy.

See you in the DLC vets and Vet Trials tomorrow?

Yep.

He'll be the cp 10 guy in vet unhallowed grave.

"why did they kick me?!?!"

If you guys knew how to read, I specifically stated that I based my criticism on pre-endgame and that it excluded dungeon content. In case you didn't know: a harder leveling experience isn't mutually exclusive with difficult endgame content. If the game gets difficult at the end, then great!

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

This thread again??? Talk about beating the horses bones at this point *sigh*. Certainly that is all that could be left with how long the poor beastie has been dead.

Overland content is for questers, so it is fine how it is.

Don’t say ESO is too easy if you have not even completed the harder content or seriously play PvP.

Yeah... another one that doesn't read. If you don't like this topic being discussed, then don't participate. Simple as that. And the same answer to you as to the guys above. And while you might think overland content is fine as is, I don't share your opinion.

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

[snip]
You want double the hp for monsters, half your weapons damage... its that simple but no! You couldn't think if that. Want monsters to do twice the damage, lower your armor levels... and like magic they'll do twice the damage.

Playing an RPG intentionally sub-optimally? No thank you. That would ruin the game just as much. A major part of playing RPGs (at least for me) is the whole process of developing your character and getting better gear/skills etc. Still, even doing it this way, the game would be ridiculously easy since you can literally run around half-naked and beat it with only a few exceptions. Yes, I'm still talking about pre-endgame overland and delves and such, since I seem to need to clarify this repeatedly.

MartiniDaniels

newtinmpls wrote: »

show previous quotes

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

You just answered your own question.

Oddly, last night my husband and I gently shepherded his brother/my brother in law into beginning to create a character and playing ESO.

This guy has NO experience with MMOPRGs, basically none with any kind of online gaming; think "used to play pac-man" as the limit of it.

He was really really struggling to do even the simplest things.

Me, back shortly after launch was doing better - I'd played Morrowind for years (just not a Skyrim/Oblivion fan), and it was a real eye-opener to see just how far I'd come.

So yes, a lot of the content is easy - and when it's easy, that's a clue to hone the skills you AREN'T so sharp on; the odd things "no one uses" or weird combinations - because you have the baseline skill to play around with this.

And Kudos to ZoS for making content that allows new players - new to everything - to have a chance, while providing Undaunted, Battlegrounds, PvP and Trials for the advanced players.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. If you want "challenging content", then you need to go to where it is.

I am really curious what person must do, to have problems with overland. (we have 3 skill points in the beginning and 3 skill lines)
Nightblade -> first ability, available from the start - Strife - spam it and you'll never die in overland
Necromancer -> first ability, available from the start - Death Scythe - spam it and you'll never die in overland
Templar -> this one is a bit harder - you need to combine puncturing strikes with rushed ceremony, though both available right from the start
Warden -> dive + fungal growth
Sorc -> just summon your scamp and spam crystal blasts from behind his back

DK -> DK is probably the only class with which newbies really might have problems, because you need to combine abilities for efficient self-healing and to do damage (oh no, combine abilities, unbearable difficulty)

FrancisCrawford

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

My biggest beef with overland isn't the difficulty per se, it's the condensed nature of the enemies. If they made overland more difficult, I hope they would thin the herd out. As easy as it is, it still gets tedious asf having to kill enemies every two steps. Especially in delves. If it was more difficult, that would become amplified even more.

Oblivion suffered with this too. As soon as you stepped off the beaten track there was hostile animals or npcs galore. Again, it wasn't difficult, but it became tedious to the point I stopped venturing off the beaten path. This improved immensely with Skyrim. You could actually explore without having to be in combat every few steps.

One thing I love about ESO is that this problem is much less bad than in other MMOs. That said, my other MMOs have been LOTRO, Guild Wars, and Guild Wars 2.