Why is this game so easy?

Rave the Histborn

MattVH wrote: »

OP mentioned he isn't talking about the raids, dungeons, arenas, etc.
So many responses going on about those aspects anyway, using the veteran content difficulty as a counterargument.

Stop trying so hard to come up with counterarguments that aren't even relevant because of OP's disclaimer. XD

Can we focus on the hypothesis that overland, and mostly quest content, is too easy?
I'm sure a lot of you agree that quest content isn't engaging at all because of it?
Or maybe not. I can respect some struggle anyway. Surely it wouldn't hurt to think about solutions for both cases anyway?


(Imo, overland and mostly quest NPCs just shouldnt be able to die in a few seconds, especially if they are some sort of 'chosen one', gang boss, demigod, daedric prince, etc. )

It isn't hard to come up with counter arguments lol and asking people to stop because they put giant holes in your idea isn't going to help.

Overland isn't too easy, it's as easy as it's supposed to be. The OP clearly isn't a noob the genre or the game as he knows exactly what took look for. It also seems like everyone defending OP are conventionally leaving out that he's clearing content with a friend and lamenting how world bosses aren't as hard as you add people to the fight. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 I wonder what could make the content so much easier? Could it be that this isn't a solo TES experience, this is an MMO?

summerkat

Well not every game is going to be satisfactory for every type of gamer. This game may not offer a real good experience for those who want to be challenged. Games do not usually change to accommodate a certain type of gamer although some have tried and not many games out there that are for the better with drastic changes to its gameplay. ESO has it's depth of lore and the ability to make almost every quest/area viable because those scale with the players level. There are other games where once you out level an area/gear then you never see it again so I consider that a real positive. But it is not in a sense a "challenging" game that is going to take tons of teamwork and long fights that take planning and coordination not in the way that I think the OP is looking for. There are many options available in this game but it is not going to be the game to play for everyone and that's the bottom line. If it does not challenge a player then there are a lot of other games to explore but it would be easier for the player to change games than for the game to change for accommodate all playstyles.

I personally like ESO but I'm new to the game. I've played TES since Daggerfall and I've been playing RPG/MMO's for most of my life. I personally just like to go with the flow of the game but if it doesn't appeal to me I move on to find something else that does. I also don't expect companies and games to cater to what I like but to offer what they want to offer and then I make my decision on whether I want to give my time, money and patience to that game.

You know what you like and don't like and you can take the suggestions of others or you don't have to. Either explore and find a way to enjoy an aspect of the game that you can or look for "that thing" you want elsewhere. I hope you and your friend(s) can find something in ESO that you can really get into though so give it some time to really check out all aspects and then make a decision.

Good Luck

Cireous

As for what you can do about the lack of difficulty right now, for anyone playing on PC, I highly recommend the use of this addon: Alphagear 2. With it, using single key presses, you can switch between customized profiles that will allow you to apply one of your outfits, take off all of your armor, and set your champion points to whatever you like. I am currently using a profile for solo Overland content and a different one for group Overland content. I also have profiles for Battlegrounds and Dungeons. Each one includes different combat abilities, champion point loadouts, outfits and gear, with the solo Overland profile containing no defensive champion points and no gear at all, except for my weapons. This helps enemy NPCs in the Overland to not be quite the pushovers they are now. All though, let's face it, even when taking off all your gear, these combat encounters are still too easy. The scaling in the Overland at the moment is indeed that bad, as even you have noticed as a new, under-geared player. There is also the issue of others just coming in and wiping out everything in your path, but not much can be done about that. Maybe, in the future, they will at least let us choose to enter into Delves and Public dungeons as solo instances if that's what we want to do.

MattVH

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

It isn't hard to come up with counter arguments lol and asking people to stop because they put giant holes in your idea isn't going to help.

Overland isn't too easy, it's as easy as it's supposed to be. The OP clearly isn't a noob the genre or the game as he knows exactly what took look for. It also seems like everyone defending OP are conventionally leaving out that he's clearing content with a friend and lamenting how world bosses aren't as hard as you add people to the fight. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 I wonder what could make the content so much easier? Could it be that this isn't a solo TES experience, this is an MMO?

I'm asking people to stop using counterarguments that use the endgame content, because the OP clearly asked to discuss overland alone. Like a lot of us have been asking people exactly that, in general, in this thread. I don't see that as defending anyone. I personally just wanted a useful discussion out of this. If a ZOS account comes in and puts in a reminder to keep things on-topic is that defending OP as well?

You make it seem like i'm telling people to simply not disagree with me. That's not the message i was going for. That's why i also said that it would be nice to think about sollutions in both cases.

I didn't endorse the OP's unforunate title. I didn't speak about the fact that he played with yet another person. I just happen to agree with the idea that overland is too easy. People are welcome to put 'giant holes' in that idea, but i honestly still feel like simply stating that OTHER content is hard instead is missing the point of the thread and my 'idea'.

NGL, stating that i mentioned that simply because of my own agenda has me really confused. I'm trying to be reasonable here. Probably too hard. Hell, maybe i'm just too sensitive and why on earth am i on the forums lol

HawkFest

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.
(...)

Overland mobs and dungeons (those that are marked with a torch on the map) aren't hard because inhabitants have made sure there are no dangerous creatures nearby lol - I'm trying to find an excuse here.. Actuaelly this helps those who want to level fast in order to be able to do "real" PvE stuff and get skills faster via questing for that matter. In the meantime while questing, if it's going too fast for you, take that opportunity to read the story-line/dialogues/books (they're well written and interesting), farm for resources easily and level up your crafting skills, etc. For more challenge, try overland bosses, those that are marked with a skull on your map.

Everest_Lionheart

At CP270 right now and all overland and delves have been pushovers for a while now. The grind of this game, the real grind is the questing. ESO is still an RPG at heart so the game still is about the journey. Unless you run through the zones and ignore half the dialogue zones take a decent amount of time to compete even with easy bosses.

There are opportunities for more difficult content though for players that seek it. I break up the monotony by soloing public dungeons though since about CP100 those don’t present much of a challenge save for the group events on the DLC public dungeons those require a bit more finesse and skill.

Trying to solo the overland bosses can also be a challenge. Some are impossible even where I am at CP270 now. The mechanics of those bosses aren’t all that hard per say but they get tricky with some of the adds and that’s where I usually get into trouble. With another experienced player a few a challenging mostly the DLC bosses. The Elsweyr bosses in particular have more HP, damage and mechanics to watch.

I’m challenging myself now trying to solo 4 man dungeons on normal level. Now obviously it requires a hybrid build because I need to tank certain mechanics and self heal. Even 2 manning the 4 man dungeons can be tricky. Now eventually I will be able to put DPS all of the vanilla ESO dungeons but the DLC dungeons are a step up still. I’ve played through some of the harder dungeons in a PUG of experienced players before and we even tripped on a few mechanics on the finals bosses of fang lair, scale caller and frost vault.

The next step up from that is Maelstrom arena which is solo content and very hard. After that is veteran content. PvP is also a different challenge. If I take a PvE toon in there I get stomped though my solo hybrid does OK.

So for me I play through the easy content to get the skill points so I can level up skills to swap my roles as I see fit. I play warden which isn’t the best tank, healer or DPS but it’s a solid 2/3 so long as you compliment the skills/equipment accordingly. Building a true all around character is a challenge in itself.

I think OP should look into all options and balance their play time. Endless questing can get boring because some of the zones and quests are a bit uninspired so getting through the main stuff is tedious. Those are the zones to challenges the world bosses solo. Looking at you Shadowfen, not my favourite zone but fun boss fights. Thankfully Eastmarch was good, but The Rift is feeling painful.

DLC zones are pretty good too. Vvardenfell, Wrothgar, Elsweyr, Summerset those are worth the time maxing our even the little quests. You won’t even care that the fights are easy.

kyle.wilson

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal. Questing and killing mobs is just a tedious running from A to B, only stopping to kill monsters in 2-8 seconds and it doesn't really matter how many monsters we pull either. We're basically playing an MMO that is tuned for under-geared 5-year olds. I'm saying that because my son can play this game without being able to read or have any understanding of what the skills on his hotbar do. He just mashes them randomly and kills things.

Doing delves feels so pointless. Usually you run into other players as well and everyone's just aching to kill stuff, but everything is mowed down in 2 seconds, and delves really become nothing but something you just run through, trying to get a hit or two in on things to gain exp. So incredibly boring, and such incredibly bad design.

Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player. So the moment you add more people in there, the already trivial content becomes fully and completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.

What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo. But as soon as you add a couple more players, even that content becomes quite easy. The only annoying thing is that dungeons are in general quite easy, too, but they add certain one-shot or nearly one-shot mechanics into the game to make it harder. That's a lousy way of adding challenge, because it means you can run through everything you're thrown against, but then a sudden and sometimes unavoidable mechanic prevents you from advancing further. Those are some of the most frowned-upon things from a player perspective because they're just not fun.

I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change, but overall this game needs a huge re-tuning. Doubling mob health and damage would be a start, but much more would certainly be required. Delve bosses are more like what normal mobs should be like, but even those are ridiculously easy. Would much prefer longer, harder fights with higher experience rewards per kill than the current trivial content of killing things in a few seconds without barely taking any damage.

Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?

PS: Fix the damn bug that sometimes prevents you from attacking or using abilities!!

When ZOS broke down stats on where many players progressed their chars, they found that 80-90% never really do "end game" content. If 80% don't do the hard content, boosting the difficulty on story content could drasticly reduce the population that plays the game. ZOS would be unable to keep this game running if only the "hardcore tryhards" could beat it.

If you want difficult do Trials and PVP, or maybe go solo a Dragon in North Eleswyr. The population there is low enough dragons stay up for 30min. Maybe you could show us you "uber gaming" skills by soloing one of them Dragons.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Folks can't do a slider of difficulty because your not alone, and mobs aren't instanced to you. They're all scaled to 50 and your gear and level is powered upward. If you try to increase that, then anyone below you could get wrecked.. like putting a no cp tank in vet moon hunter keep for a random daily. One tamriel equalized all overland mobs so you could level and play where ever you wanted... and your not alone! Everyone screaming for sliders seem to forget that they're not the only one playing. You can't have a regular mudcrab with its meager heavy attack and then because you want it, a mudcrab with dragon breath, aoe rss pool drain and meager heavy attack, and some actual leveling player runs by and has their face melted by a mudcrab. Its why dungeons are instanced. There has to be base levels of progression for everyone, not just ourselves. Its why world bosses in are easier in old zones and harder in dlc.

Also you can always enter any dungeon you want, I can solo most old vet dungeons that don't have clutch mechanic. You can dou them, you can three man them, you don't have to q.... they can literally be walked right in and its your to practice your builds and skills in actual combat.

AcadianPaladin

I believe bringing up vet dungeons / trials is relevant to a discussion of overland difficulty:

If overland is too easy, there are hard places for skilled players to seek more challenge.
If a newb is struggling with overland, where can they go to play more appropriate content? Nowhere.

Banana

I still die all the time

lurkin777

The problem is content/player leveling. As I level I would expect that the same content should become easier.

I don't have a problem with the hardness of the content. If someone thinks it is to easy they should just not use the high end armor and weapons and champion points and it will be harder. I don't use the champion points on my low level characters and find it just fine.

I personally would like to see content that is designed for solo play that is instanced per player I hate to not be able to kill something without someone else jumping in and killing it before I have a chance to challenge myself.

kyle.wilson

lurkin777 wrote: »

The problem is content/player leveling. As I level I would expect that the same content should become easier.

I don't have a problem with the hardness of the content. If someone thinks it is to easy they should just not use the high end armor and weapons and champion points and it will be harder. I don't use the champion points on my low level characters and find it just fine.

I personally would like to see content that is designed for solo play that is instanced per player I hate to not be able to kill something without someone else jumping in and killing it before I have a chance to challenge myself.

Why are you playing an MMORPG, if you want to be solo. Skyrim is still around and Bethesda will port it to anything they can sell copies for. Coming soon Elder Scrolls V Skyrim on Samsung Dishwasher.

MattVH

..

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I believe bringing up vet dungeons / trials is relevant to a discussion of overland difficulty:

If overland is too easy, there are hard places for skilled players to seek more challenge.
If a newb is struggling with overland, where can they go to play more appropriate content? Nowhere.

It was just ironic and kinda annoying to me to read "I'm not talking about raids or dungeons." and seeing the first comments being really short, snarky and exactly about that alone. I would have liked to hear from those people what they think about the overland/quest content itself, instead. Not my thread though.

At this point im starting to almost hijack this thread, so excuse me and forget i said anything.

Malthorne

MattVH wrote: »

]

Just an option, extra mode or toggle. What's the harm in that?

There has been good back and forth discussion on both sides but that’s the question I haven’t seen answered either. Instead they say things like “leave the game” or “this game isn’t for you” etc.. these are phrases posters resort to when they can no longer contribute valid points to the discussion There are many examples in this thread alone.

Kiralyn2000

MattVH wrote: »

..

show previous quotes

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I believe bringing up vet dungeons / trials is relevant to a discussion of overland difficulty:

If overland is too easy, there are hard places for skilled players to seek more challenge.
If a newb is struggling with overland, where can they go to play more appropriate content? Nowhere.

It was just ironic and kinda annoying to me to read "I'm not talking about raids or dungeons." and seeing the first comments being really short, snarky and exactly about that alone.

But that's the point - that's how MMOs work. They have tiers of content, in increasing difficulty. So the response to "overland is too easy" will ALWAYS be: that's what dungeons and raids are for. Just saying "and don't talk to me about dungeons and raids" doesn't change that.

newtinmpls

MattVH wrote: »

[
Some are simply asking for another 'option' though. I'm either ignoring or not seeing the requests that demand the whole game to change. Just an option, extra mode or toggle.

Disable your CP. There is your toggle.

newtinmpls

Two related, but interesting ideas here:

MattVH wrote: »

Can we focus on the hypothesis that overland, and mostly quest content, is too easy?

That is an incomplete sentence. "Too easy" for
Players who are really good at ESO
Players with a lot of experience with MMO's
Players with high levels of situational awareness (able to recognize and "not stand in stupid" AND "interrupt the attack" AND weave attacks AND have a rotation AND be moving around to make it harder for the AI to target you AND optimize their gear (and understand the ramifications of that phrase).

To simulate a "beginning" players experience (and I mean someone who is really really not "experienced" - I'm talking someone whose experience is Pong, or Pac man, or Wizardry II
So try doing the following:
-No gear other than what is dropped. And go exclusively by "value" not by any consideration of is it appropriate for your build.
-Turn off your color or adjust it so that you CAN NOT TELL where the red is
-No gamer mouse. Use a laptop square mouse with no buttons, just a flat visual surface.
-For anything that requires keyboard input, make a fist with one finger protruding and that's what you use to enter anything that requires letter keys.

MattVH wrote: »

I'm sure a lot of you agree that quest content isn't engaging at all?

If you aren't here for the story, then the story will not be engaging. If you have never tried "being here for the story" then:
-talk to every NPC
-Read the entire text of all found books/documents/notes
-when it says "observe the conversation" actually listen and pick a side and yell at the screen.
-halfway through, go back, delete your character and create one that has reason to be emotionally invested in this quest. Then play it from that character's perspective, staying in character the whole time (as research, please feel free to read any and all posts by @SantieClaws who is awesome)

newtinmpls

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Trying to solo the overland bosses can also be a challenge. Some are impossible even where I am at CP270 now. .

Oh yes... Bittergreen .. I love to hate that boss.

Even now that I can solo most Dolmens, can do at least all the basic Undaunted's on VET ... Bittergreen still mostly wipes the floor with me.

And I can't really be sad about that.

Sylvermynx

Banana wrote: »

I still die all the time

You might be making a funny.... but yeah, so do I.

Everest_Lionheart

newtinmpls wrote: »

show previous quotes

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Trying to solo the overland bosses can also be a challenge. Some are impossible even where I am at CP270 now. .

Oh yes... Bittergreen .. I love to hate that boss.

Even now that I can solo most Dolmens, can do at least all the basic Undaunted's on VET ... Bittergreen still mostly wipes the floor with me.

And I can't really be sad about that.

Yeah THAT boss lol!

I actually hooked up with a guy on this boss the other day and we tackled that SOB together. He was tanking the hell out of the boss while I kept DOTs and AOE up while chasing the adds down 1x1 and circling to the boss to DPS when I could.

He was impressed by how I handled the fight and invited me to his guild. Showed me a couple of his tank skills and explained how he controls the boss while DPSing and have me some pointers to boost mine as well.

MattVH

@Kiralyn2000

I get it. You could argue that there's harder content already so it's fine. But just like how there's normal/veteran dungeons, i'd wish there was tougher story as well, so that this huge part of the game would be more enjoyable. That's just my view though.

Again, forget my possibly overzealous request from earlier. Spend so much time on the forums and you start seeing stuff as bait or potential reasons for ZOS to lock a thread.

MattVH

newtinmpls wrote: »

show previous quotes

MattVH wrote: »

[
Some are simply asking for another 'option' though. I'm either ignoring or not seeing the requests that demand the whole game to change. Just an option, extra mode or toggle.

Disable your CP. There is your toggle.

Like this just feels like low effort or bait to me, but maybe i'm just bitter

MattVH

@newtinmpls

(man i don't even know how this forum works anymore, when it comes to responses lol)

The reason i feel like the story suffers a bit, is actually only because of 'powerful beings' that die too quickly. That's like the only thing. I read everything and i'd wish i actually cared less about all the choices, story and lore, etc.

It's engaging enough in that respect, aye. Although the dialogue could do with less question marks lol

I have add ons to disable crosshair, quest markers, target glow, use a gamepad. At this point i think i'm just impossible so please nvm me.

With more engaging i meant the fights, that wasn't too clear on my end indeed. Thanks for the suggestions. creative lol

The screaming i got covered. Whenever there's yet another guilt trip decision to make, while i'm not related to the quest giver at all.

eKsDee

Can people actually read the damn thread before responding? A slider can absolutely work, when it scales you, not the mobs. There's no reason Zenimax shouldn't implement a damn slider to give all players the opportunity to have fun in overland. Isn't overland meant to be for everyone? If so, why do I literally get put to sleep out of boredom questing, and why do you say that is completely fine?

MasterSpatula

Ah, yes, the six trillionth "All the Content Aimed at Anyone Other than Me Must Be Rebalanced for Me" thread.

I especially love when they start off by demeaning those the content is aimed at. The commonness of these threads makes the rank selfishness of them so much more palatable.

MasterSpatula

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I believe bringing up vet dungeons / trials is relevant to a discussion of overland difficulty:

If overland is too easy, there are hard places for skilled players to seek more challenge.
If a newb is struggling with overland, where can they go to play more appropriate content? Nowhere.

Literally the sole valid opinion.

StormeReigns

Now which thread is this one again? Let elementary children play, FFA PvP in all Overland areas or make Overland equal to VetTrials?

Hard to tell... they all have the same opening request.

MartiniDaniels

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Ah, yes, the six trillionth "All the Content Aimed at Anyone Other than Me Must Be Rebalanced for Me" thread.

I especially love when they start off by demeaning those the content is aimed at. The commonness of these threads makes the rank selfishness of them so much more palatable.

So you deny us (those who are bored by overland since One Tamriel) OPTIONAL mode/slider so we can quest/explore game without falling asleep, and then call us selfish? Speaking of this forum there is nobody even close in selfishness as casuals are. Casuals want to delete PVP, to delete animation cancelling, to delete trading guilds, to delete veteran content higher rewards - i.e. remove all that which makes this game worth playing for many of us and after that we are called toxic, demeaning and selfish? This is just hilarious.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun

MattVH wrote: »

I'm either ignoring or not seeing the requests that demand the whole game to change.

You're not seeing them because they don't exist. For whatever reason, people just want to argue a point that nobody was trying to make. Like you said, all anyone's asking for is the option for harder overland content. Nobody is suggesting that everyone be forcibly thrown into Veteran-tier difficultly at level 1.

Robo_Hobo

Cireous wrote: »

Hopefully when they rework the champion point system some of the power creep can and will be addressed. Fingers crossed that, at the same time, they will also introduce an optional difficulty increase, in some form, for the Overland. The Creative Director discussed in an interview not too long ago that they were very much considering adding some form of extra difficulty when working on One Tamriel, but it didn't make it in. They seem to be aware that a large portion of the player base is dissatisfied with the current difficulty level and will perhaps look into what can be done about it. That's my very optimistic take away, but I could be reading into things a bit.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that interview. I hope they do, even just some toggleable significant debuff would go a long way. Thrassian Stranglers is a good step in the right direction for the meantime.

I still haven't been able to bring myself to do Dragonhold or Murkmire because of this, and I love quests in ESO, if it weren't for this problem.