Why is this game so easy?
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing though: I never read people complaining about the game being too hard.
Threads about how easy it is however ...
That should already say something.
There is already a counter-thread where guy tells that it is hard to animation cancel when game lags. He doesn't suggest to fix lag, he asks to remove animation cancelling instead
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mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OP's post summarized without so many words:
Hi, I just started playing this game. The highest level I have ever gotten is level 40. I have done zero end game content. I likely have zero clue how to properly light weave let alone push 90k DPS. I am here to tell the game in my 3 days of play it needs to change entirely because LEVELING content is easy.
See you in the DLC vets and Vet Trials tomorrow?
Add also, "I have been playing since 2014 -- but I am totally new to this game"
Sub level 50 you also have a massive buff on you that scales you up to CP160 (and diminishes the closer you get to 50), once you hit champion level, it's gone and you're in CP limbo gear wise for a good while. Gear suddenly becomes useless and devolves into trash very quickly as you gain CP and start investing it.
Edited by mairwen85 on April 30, 2020 12:51PM1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Yep, it's just some kind of joke to link him if some hilarious balance change is suggested
As for connection issues and difficulty - yes, there are players who play from Australia or from satellite connection or GPRS and it is good that One Tamriel allowed them to experience the game. But what about players who don't have problems with connection? Why we can't have optional more difficult mode?
More difficult is not the problem, but that you want it as well to be more rewarding is (as in better loot). If it would just be about the difficulty, I guess ZOS would do it rather quickly, because they would just have to scale down your resources and good - but more and better rewards is a problem.Edited by Lysette on April 30, 2020 12:48PM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
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More difficult is not the problem, but that you want it as well to be more rewarding is (as in better loot). If it would just be about the difficulty, I guess ZOS would do it rather quickly, because they would just have to scale down your resources and good - but more and better rewards is a problem.
Why better rewards is the problem? We already have better rewards for harder difficulty in PVP, dungeons, trials, arenas, what's bad about better rewards in overland? If you are afraid about economy, then this might be a skins/titles/dyes whatever. For example, if somebody completes Cadwell Gold on "nightmare", he receives some cosmetics, why not?1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »I'm wondering how WoW managed to become most popular game in the world in it's best years when few mobs were enough to kill any player until he reaches cap and gets top gear. WoW was called most casual-friendly game... but in comparison to ESO, even modern non-classic WoW is much harder then ESO overland.
WoW comparisons are irrelevant.
It isn't about the WoW overland difficulty, it is about the combat, world design, and game play. Too much to get into. I will say that ESO combat is very different, and in my opinion, much more difficult at lower player skill level. I think that WoW combat is better suited for new players than ESO.MartiniDaniels wrote: »As for connection issues and difficulty - yes, there are players who play from Australia or from satellite connection or GPRS and it is good that One Tamriel allowed them to experience the game. But what about players who don't have problems with connection? Why we can't have optional more difficult mode?
This would be a "nerf slider" in ESO. At the far left is "zero nerfs". As the slider is moved to the right, the virtual nerf level would increase, making your character incrementally weaker as the slider moved. Eventually, you get to the far right, at "maximum nerf".
From one perspective, that is what is happening today as the character levels. The game moves this hidden "nerf slider" to the right with each level increase. All of our fully leveled characters are running at maximum nerf right now. This new "nerf slider" would be able to move further to the right. Of course, that is a grand generalization, but it is one way of thinking about it.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Why better rewards is the problem? We already have better rewards for harder difficulty in PVP, dungeons, trials, arenas, what's bad about better rewards in overland? If you are afraid about economy, then this might be a skins/titles/dyes whatever. For example, if somebody completes Cadwell Gold on "nightmare", he receives some cosmetics, why not?
See, you don't want just more fun to play overland content by making it more difficult for you - what you really want is more and better rewards. Not going to happen then.
Edit. i can tell you why - overland mobs are stupid and slow and run at you in a straight line and rarely ever move around once they are near you - that is good for those who struggle with the game due to having high ping where everything lags behind for about a second or more. Such mobs are not worth a better reward, even if you make it harder for yourself - these mobs are not getting better in their tactics.Edited by Lysette on April 30, 2020 1:13PM2 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭This game is too easy. That's why I'm currently playing Skyrim with the requiem mod and frostfall, ineed etc. Feels like an old school RPG. It's great.
Same here, love Requiem. It's crazy how much more enjoyable simple exploration and dungeon delving can be when you have to actually be aware of your surroundings, use the environment to your advantage to not let enemies surround you, and hold on to every bit of power and resources you find because you need them desperately.
Yeah I know ESO will never be like that even with however many optional debuffs they do if they ever decide to throw us a bone, but it just goes to show that in a game that loves to throw big open zones with delves and a myriad of stories and quests, and wants to focus on making that a big part of the game...for some of us, even that love exploring and questing, we just can't enjoy it if there is no sense of danger. Not everyone is like that and that's fine, but it just feels like being served your favorite food and then they sprinkle on something you're allergic to so you don't want to eat it. Then every time I do quests and explore it's like trying to ignore the allergic reactions I'm getting to try and enjoy my favorite food but then eventually I pass out and quit for months.Edited by Robo_Hobo on April 30, 2020 1:22PM2 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭terrordactyl1971 wrote: »Have you played the arenas, vet dungeons or trials yet?
Why is this the general thought of this community. The reality is that when people get to 340 cp and begin trials and true vet dungeons. The know absolutely nothing about the game play,builds,and roles. Then the end game community chastises them and boots them from groups. This game is friggin flawed it does nothing to create an environment that teaches the player or even encourage them to learn how to play. I think Tam one was poorly implemented . It fixed a few glaring issues and stole the heart of the MMO in the process. It is the main culprit of homogenization of the classes.its short sighted to defend the game against what this guy is saying. It's the same game at lvl one as it is at max cp.5 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
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See, you don't want just more fun to play overland content by making it more difficult for you - what you really want is more and better rewards. Not going to happen then.
Edit. i can tell you why - overland mobs are stupid and slow and run at you in a straight line and rarely ever move around once they are near you - that is good for those who struggle with the game due to having high ping where everything lags behind for about a second or more. Such mobs are not worth a better reward, even if you make it harder for yourself - these mobs are not getting better in their tactics.
This is just human nature. More effort = higher reward, even if it is something purely symbolic like Master Angler for fishing or Cadwell's helm for Cadwell's Gold.
About mobs, it's all about numbers. If every un-dodged or not blocked hit will deal 10k damage to player, even dumbest mobs will be challenging. Yeah, you can kite them etc, but you know they have archers, they even have healers, trolls can regenerate.. it's not like you can kill everybody by kiting alone.
Just compare normal and vet dungeons. Aside from some boss mechanics there is no difference in what mobs do. In normal they mostly harmless and you can solo majority of normal dungeons with regular dps build. In veteran it's not that simple already, because mobs have much higher health and somewhat higher damage.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
This is just human nature. More effort = higher reward, even if it is something purely symbolic like Master Angler for fishing or Cadwell's helm for Cadwell's Gold.
About mobs, it's all about numbers. If every un-dodged or not blocked hit will deal 10k damage to player, even dumbest mobs will be challenging. Yeah, you can kite them etc, but you know they have archers, they even have healers, trolls can regenerate.. it's not like you can kill everybody by kiting alone.
Just compare normal and vet dungeons. Aside from some boss mechanics there is no difference in what mobs do. In normal they mostly harmless and you can solo majority of normal dungeons with regular dps build. In veteran it's not that simple already, because mobs have much higher health and somewhat higher damage.
I thought we are talking about overland content here - not dungeons, dolmens and such. I referred to the standard outdoor mob and those are not worth to get any more rewards just because you want to make it harder for yourself. When you make it harder for yourself, you remove the results of your own mistakes (to overpower yourself), you shouldn't be rewarded for this in any way. it was your fault in the first place to get yourself into this situation.Edited by Lysette on April 30, 2020 1:32PM1 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭I would say what the OP is describing is a result of the level scaling/level sync. Only its not actually level scaling as much as the game automatically seems to buff all characters to an appropriate "level" just like it does for the mobs. So while you may wear subpar gear, the game punches your character to the point it would be regardless. One reason I dislike level sync in games is for one you lose all sense of progression so that its always the same feel no matter but also its also the same amount of difficulty no matter what you are encountering.
And the bad part for the OP is they can't adjust this to be more difficult because then those who are newer to the game and haven't build up a store of good gear or gotten the appropriate level of Champion Points will have a bad experience. Those that don't have those things, for the most part, do find an appreciably level of difficulty especially when you take into account not being familiar with this type of game. That's why, in my opinion, you see newer folks to the game have such praise for it while those that have been playing for some time are frustrated by it. Just like the changes we keep seeing to balance adversely affects those playing longer while those just starting don't see much of a change if at all.
I like games that don't use level sync simply because I personally would rather feel like I'm progressing and being bored than having to fight against the game itself to the point of not seeing the point. My solution would simply stop seeing each chapter as the entry point for new players. It should be a max level area and should reflect its max level. Give an option to turn on or off side quests and have new players introduction to the game be a new main quest with this option automatically turned off. The main quest allows them to see most of the original areas as an intro to the world and not capped by level. By the time they are done they should be level 50 so adjust the experience rewarded as needed and also give them Champion Points at the completion of each area so by the time they are finished they stand at level 50 CP 160. Levels in this game are useless and mostly something that has no appreciable reflection of anything with the game. Instead of the short five minute new quest intro they've been doing for Chapters something like this is what I would suggest.
That's what I would suggest at any rate. I'm not married to it as I've long past that point that this would even be an issue for me though I would like to see what we have currently still remain for those that want a somewhat original experience. But these Chapter for me are already feeling like the same old song with new pictures which is starting to get boring. They can't make anything too complex because its the entry to new players. While important, I think having taken a new character through these chapters and then going back to older stuff feels like this game is stuck in molasses that I don't even want to play that. Especially since its older and less people play than before making it not even feel like a populated game at times. At least for someone that's taken long breaks from the game and want to do world bosses where I feel like I am begging for someone to play with at times. Its no wonder so many of us want a solo capable character for just about everything because so much of the content feels like there's only one person playing at times.
That's certainly would at least given them a reason to not be so safe with areas. I can't imagine what the dragon fights will be like as even today at best you might be able to fight the northern one but the two southern ones are usually deserted. And its been less than a year. At any rate they've got to look at the game as a whole on how to deal with older material and how to bring new people in and how to give people reasons to enjoy playing after in some cases years.2 -
Lady_Linux✭✭✭✭✭the game is easy (battles) because every other aspect of the game is tedious and when you add up all the stress and boredom of the tedious parts, making the game easy to play provides a simple release that makes it all sorta balance in some twisted way...
I simply must protest. There are no Penguin avatars for me to use in the forums.
BTW, I use arch too0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You can't make overland content hard, in an MMO, as many new players, who don't yet have decent gear, or CP points, will just leave, if you do.
Try taking your gear off and/or playing on your own...Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player.
Yes, yes they are.Edited by Tigerseye on April 30, 2020 1:55PM1 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »
Why is this the general thought of this community. The reality is that when people get to 340 cp and begin trials and true vet dungeons. The know absolutely nothing about the game play,builds,and roles. Then the end game community chastises them and boots them from groups. This game is friggin flawed it does nothing to create an environment that teaches the player or even encourage them to learn how to play. I think Tam one was poorly implemented . It fixed a few glaring issues and stole the heart of the MMO in the process. It is the main culprit of homogenization of the classes.its short sighted to defend the game against what this guy is saying. It's the same game at lvl one as it is at max cp.
What I find interesting is that the game does do some teaching with the tutorial, which most people skip or simply push buttons to by pass. The base teaching in the tutorial applies to all content but some players simply don't pay attention.
The built in build skill line feature is a good start on what skills you need for the type of character you plan to play. It isn't up to the game, but the player to learn how to play said character and use said skills at appropriate time.
Even with all of the hints, tutorial, and even skill line assistance tools available most players simply don't pay attention because...things are pretty or this (skill, weapon/gear, etc) is cool. Those are the typical response I get from players who don't pay attention or use the in game tools that is available to them that would help them improve their character as a DD, tank or healer.
The game can only provide so much information and with today's technology and access to resources it is up to a player to take responsibility and learn about the game, their class, the role they want to play, etc... Even the best teachers in the world cannot make a student great if the student doesn't have the desire to learn.
The other thing with ESO is that this game has many moving parts that is more complex that a mobile type of game. People playing this may like the simplicity of a mobile game and it is a result of so many mobile games being simple that when those type of gamers come to a game like ESO they will miss many things and not be as effective as gamers who are willing to do what is necessary to understand their character and get the most out of it.
Not every player cares about true end game or being top on a leader board. Some players just play to have fun. It is when these players try a vet DLC or trial and haven't spent the time learning how to be better that results in the game being less fun for those that may end up group with these players causing rage quitting, etc... My ask instead of rage quitting, take the time and talk to these players and you may find out that these players are willing to learn and get better and you may also end up with another online friend.
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EmEm_Oh✭✭✭✭✭It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.
I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.
But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?
I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal. Questing and killing mobs is just a tedious running from A to B, only stopping to kill monsters in 2-8 seconds and it doesn't really matter how many monsters we pull either. We're basically playing an MMO that is tuned for under-geared 5-year olds. I'm saying that because my son can play this game without being able to read or have any understanding of what the skills on his hotbar do. He just mashes them randomly and kills things.
Doing delves feels so pointless. Usually you run into other players as well and everyone's just aching to kill stuff, but everything is mowed down in 2 seconds, and delves really become nothing but something you just run through, trying to get a hit or two in on things to gain exp. So incredibly boring, and such incredibly bad design.
Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player. So the moment you add more people in there, the already trivial content becomes fully and completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.
What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo. But as soon as you add a couple more players, even that content becomes quite easy. The only annoying thing is that dungeons are in general quite easy, too, but they add certain one-shot or nearly one-shot mechanics into the game to make it harder. That's a lousy way of adding challenge, because it means you can run through everything you're thrown against, but then a sudden and sometimes unavoidable mechanic prevents you from advancing further. Those are some of the most frowned-upon things from a player perspective because they're just not fun.
I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change, but overall this game needs a huge re-tuning. Doubling mob health and damage would be a start, but much more would certainly be required. Delve bosses are more like what normal mobs should be like, but even those are ridiculously easy. Would much prefer longer, harder fights with higher experience rewards per kill than the current trivial content of killing things in a few seconds without barely taking any damage.
Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?
PS: Fix the damn bug that sometimes prevents you from attacking or using abilities!!
Yeah, I notice that content is super easy...or super difficult. Not much of an in-between.
We need more 500K hp bosses across Tamriel, who have a sting. The 1.8M bosses generally require a 4-person group to kill. So, a 500K would be great for solo adventures. ZOS could probably raise some of the quest bosses' hp by 50% with little issue.
Also, still asking for solo dungeons.Edited by EmEm_Oh on April 30, 2020 2:04PM1 -
Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭
I wonder though how many people have run away from all the other, harder, MMOs?You can't make overland content hard, in an MMO, as many new players, who don't yet have decent gear, or CP points, will just leave, if you do.
There's a difference between "remotely challenging" and "complete walkover even with your eyes closed and randomly smashing keys"
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Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU8 -
Creeper✭✭✭I agree this game has become too easy, I remember when I first started playing ESO back in 2016 the difficulty was perfect. We had to follow the mechanics even on the base game dungeons and on the small bosses before we get to the final boss, now everything just dies so quickly its not fun, everything dies like paper in 2 or 3 hits.
The dlcs dungeon has also been nerfed, I remember White Gold Tower, Ruins of Mazzatun and Cradle of Shadows were much harder, now you can skip most of the mechanics and the boss dies very fast.
The world bosses also used to be much harder, I remember we need more than 5 or 7 people to kill the bosses now I can solo most of the bosses.
Its the same reason why I quit doing quests, I haven't even completed the base game story on my main character. I have only completed the Ebonheart Pact quests and thats it but I have been playing since 2016. I have all the DLCs and Expansions except Dragonhold and Harrowstorm. When new expansions get released, I want to enjoy the story and the gameplay as well, but when you meet the final boss and you kill him in just a few hits, how is that suppose to be fun?
I'm not asking for difficulty like Dark Souls but I wish it was reverted back to how it used to be.6 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's an elder scrolls game, it's supposed to be challenging, it's not WoW.
Hmm. An Elder Scrolls game. Supposed to be challenging.
I definitely remember bunches of "game's too easy!" threads on the Skyrim forums. (of course, many of them were: "I min-maxed the hell out of crafting exploits, and my dagger ambushes for billions of damage! The game should provide challenge for me!" "Well, maybe don't do the crafting loop exploit?" "I must play at maximum efficiency at all times! HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST I SELF-NERF!?!?!?!?!")
Aaaaand, I definitely remember people talking about how Oblivion was too easy. (While talking about the crazy spell combo they'd crafted, or the 100% Chameleon suit they crafted. Or the console commands.) When they weren't talking about how terrible the scaling was.
Fallout 3 (made by the same Bethesda devs) was also too easy ("I can go straight from leaving the Vault to Old Olney, with my starting pistol! On Very Hard.")
And Fallout 4 was super "dumbed-down" and easy.
So... yeah.
And none of those had the issues that "mass market MMO" brings to the table.
(I'll just add some background/disclaimer here: I've been playing games since Ultima 1 & Wizardry 1, in 1980. Apple II, PC, Mac, SNES, PS1/2/3/4. Lots of RPGs and JRPGs, some FPS & Action & MMO games, no sports or racing, almost no Fighting, mostly single-player & almost no PvP. I've discovered that I'm not a "challenge gamer", I just play for fun. Big Complicated Boss Fight is the quickest way to turn me off a game, after "PvP focused". Needless to say, I've avoided the *Souls games & Monster Hunter. I don't generally turn up the difficulty of games past Normal, except in things like Diablo 2&3 where it's baked into the progression.)
Edited by Kiralyn2000 on April 30, 2020 2:31PM0 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »
Why is this the general thought of this community. The reality is that when people get to 340 cp and begin trials and true vet dungeons. The know absolutely nothing about the game play,builds,and roles. Then the end game community chastises them and boots them from groups. This game is friggin flawed it does nothing to create an environment that teaches the player or even encourage them to learn how to play. I think Tam one was poorly implemented . It fixed a few glaring issues and stole the heart of the MMO in the process. It is the main culprit of homogenization of the classes.its short sighted to defend the game against what this guy is saying. It's the same game at lvl one as it is at max cp.
This, so god damn much. Setting aside my own grievances with how easy overland is, I honestly feel it is a large factor in why newer players have so much trouble in end game content, and why the skill gap is as large as it is.
Newer players enter a tutorial that teaches them most of the absolute basics of combat, and are not only then thrown into overland, where none of that matters, as everything is designed to be as accessible as possible (ie dumbed down so anybody and their dog can do it), but are also patted on the back for playing in all the wrong ways.
They start forming extremely bad habits and expectations, and when they start doing harder content, they immediately run head first into a reinforced concrete wall, as all harder content expects players to play a certain way. Cue group members getting (rightfully) angry that these players can't even follow basic gameplay mechanics such as "stay out of red", or "block these attacks", or "bash the boss when this telegraph is shown", and eventually kicking these players out of groups, maybe with some colourful words to go along with the kick.
Overland shouldn't be all-inclusive, it should be giving players a swift yet gentle kick up the rear whenever they play the completely wrong way (fall back onto spamming light or heavy attacks for damage instead of skills, using the completely wrong armour or weapon type for your character, not using food buffs, not dodging, not blocking, not bashing, not healing, etc), it should be readying players for the content that this stuff truly matters.
Group content shouldn't be where players learn basic gameplay mechanics, they should already know these mechanics well before they even think of doing group content, and group content should be reinforcing the use of those mechanics.
Either that, or simply just tell anybody who's actually invested in ESO as a themepark MMORPG to "move on, this game isn't for you", and either dumb down group content to match overland, or remove group content outright, because a lot of us are getting tired of the constant dumbing down of mechanics.5 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder though how many people have run away from all the other, harder, MMOs?
There's a difference between "remotely challenging" and "complete walkover even with your eyes closed and randomly smashing keys"
I have seen players in the game, and not really even new players, that struggle with overland and overland quests.
Sure, there are players out there that do not struggle. Without exception, I think the people in here are that type of player.
I have to think that ESO loses players due to the fact that they run out of Daggerfall along the road, get hit by a pile of Imps, say WTF just happened, and wander off to find something easier to play.
I am sure that those that stick around will eventually be in here saying that overland is too easy, but in between, it isn't always that easy.
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Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've also got to say that I've seen the complaint "This game does nothing to teach new players how to really play" on many MMO forums.
(Part of that is probably that min-maxers & theorycrafters with infinite time on their hands, have figured out "how to play" better than the devs could ever understand. Because they find combos/synergies/interactions in the various game systems that never occurred to the people making them. Because MMOs have so damn many complex overlapping systems.)1 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »I've also got to say that I've seen the complaint "This game does nothing to teach new players how to really play" on many MMO forums.
(Part of that is probably that min-maxers & theorycrafters with infinite time on their hands, have figured out "how to play" better than the devs could ever understand. Because they find combos/synergies/interactions in the various game systems that never occurred to the people making them. Because MMOs have so damn many complex overlapping systems.)
Except the "how to play" we're mentioning here isn't even related to minmaxing, it's quite literally the basic gameplay mechanics, the way the devs intended players to play the game.
Newer players aren't properly taught how to use skills, light attacks, heavy attacks, bar swap, how to identify AoE's they need to step out of, how to identify telegraphs for certain mechanics such as bashing or blocking attacks, etc. The tutorial may cover a few of them, but the moment they leave the tutorial, none of it is required.
Basic gameplay mechanics that act as the foundation of the combat system, and newer players are thrown into an overland where literally none of that matters. They can go around just light attacking everything to death, without playing defensively at all, and still be fine.
It's to the point where I've even had the "overland is too easy" conversation with people coming from other MMO's. Hell, I've had people in a relatively casual guild I'm in try GW2 out, and they almost universally agree that GW2's overland is far, far better than ESO's because of the challenge.
Overland and questing in ESO is all flavour, with no substance, all the way through. Vets can see it, players coming from other MMO's can see it, even newer players can see it. Yet somehow, it's still an issue that most can't grasp.9 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »I've also got to say that I've seen the complaint "This game does nothing to teach new players how to really play" on many MMO forums.
(Part of that is probably that min-maxers & theorycrafters with infinite time on their hands, have figured out "how to play" better than the devs could ever understand. Because they find combos/synergies/interactions in the various game systems that never occurred to the people making them. Because MMOs have so damn many complex overlapping systems.)
ESO requires a lot of self-education on how to play. The "weaving" in combat is not taught at all and, unless someone tells the player about it, has to be discovered. Aside from that, it is trial and error to determine what works and what does not.
Then, after they do that, if they have not noticed, the end-game players have a particular way of doing things. They have the rep of not taking kindly to those who do not conform to that. Nothing ZOS does can teach that, as it is player custom, and it has changed over time.
Square one is teaching light attack weaving in all the tutorials.0 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭One thing though: I never read people complaining about the game being too hard.
Threads about how easy it is however ...
That should already say something.
It does. It says the same thing here that it says in every MMO I've ever played; that after a time, sometimes even a very short time, players figure out the mechanics, get the gear, git gud, etc. etc., and trivialize the game. Then they look around all mystified as to why they can't find any "challenge". Seriously, this thread exists in BDO, DDO, GW 2, swtor just off the top of my head on forums that I've visited in the last 6 months. I could go back further, but that list of games escapes me. The real problem becomes people expecting a game to be something it's not, like Skyrim Online, or Dark Souls.1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »
Why is this the general thought of this community. The reality is that when people get to 340 cp and begin trials and true vet dungeons. The know absolutely nothing about the game play,builds,and roles. Then the end game community chastises them and boots them from groups. This game is friggin flawed it does nothing to create an environment that teaches the player or even encourage them to learn how to play. I think Tam one was poorly implemented . It fixed a few glaring issues and stole the heart of the MMO in the process. It is the main culprit of homogenization of the classes.its short sighted to defend the game against what this guy is saying. It's the same game at lvl one as it is at max cp.
Hi. I don't have 300 CP, and I already know all of this. Maybe over generalizing is a great tactic in your guilds, or maybe a sub-reddit, but in actual game forums, basing player skill, or the lack there of, on something that you can literally be carried to is irrelevant. I spent about 10 years as a progression raider in assorted MMOs. Some mechanics, become second nature after a time, and start to be things that you actually look for. Sorry you got a player or 10, maybe, could just be parroting what someone else said, that didn't know what they were doing, but lumping everyone not your little clique into the same basket is a failure beyond belief.1 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, I notice that content is super easy...or super difficult. Not much of an in-between.
We need more 500K hp bosses across Tamriel, who have a sting. The 1.8M bosses generally require a 4-person group to kill. So, a 500K would be great for solo adventures. ZOS could probably raise some of the quest bosses' hp by 50% with little issue.
Also, still asking for solo dungeons.
Some are places the overland/public dungeon bosses do scale up a bit. I’ve seen a couple group events with 300-400k HP plus adds, though none of them are particularly difficult and can be easily overcome using tactics. I finally had a semi challenge last night in the Lions Den at the Rift. It’s the last public dungeon in the pact zones. Had to be aware a couple of times to make sure I didn’t bite it because I was mindlessly button mashing. I found the mobs there more difficult than the bosses though sadly and the group event was also a pushover. I did die there though but not because of an enemy. Jumping down from the last cliff I missed the water and landed on the rock instead! Definitely a rofl moment!
Some of the 1.8 mil world bosses from the vanilla game have easy enough mechanics to solo with decent CP, but they do scale up difficulty as you progress through the alliance zones. DLC bosses are already more robust to begin with and do often requisite assistance. People with high CP can handle many of them alone but there are a few that require help. There are also a couple that can be cheesed and kited to a place where they can be hit while dealing minor damage.
One thing I wish was a tad harder are delves. It’s just too easy to melt through anything in those with a few levels under your belt. Because there are skyshards in all of them their difficulty should be boosted a bit in general for everyone below the level of a public dungeon and probably be solo instanced with the option to group.0 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »
Some are places the overland/public dungeon bosses do scale up a bit. I’ve seen a couple group events with 300-400k HP plus adds, though none of them are particularly difficult and can be easily overcome using tactics. I finally had a semi challenge last night in the Lions Den at the Rift. It’s the last public dungeon in the pact zones. Had to be aware a couple of times to make sure I didn’t bite it because I was mindlessly button mashing. I found the mobs there more difficult than the bosses though sadly and the group event was also a pushover. I did die there though but not because of an enemy. Jumping down from the last cliff I missed the water and landed on the rock instead! Definitely a rofl moment!
Some of the 1.8 mil world bosses from the vanilla game have easy enough mechanics to solo with decent CP, but they do scale up difficulty as you progress through the alliance zones. DLC bosses are already more robust to begin with and do often requisite assistance. People with high CP can handle many of them alone but there are a few that require help. There are also a couple that can be cheesed and kited to a place where they can be hit while dealing minor damage.
One thing I wish was a tad harder are delves. It’s just too easy to melt through anything in those with a few levels under your belt. Because there are skyshards in all of them their difficulty should be boosted a bit in general for everyone below the level of a public dungeon and probably be solo instanced with the option to group.
So I'm curious, why should delves be boosted based on having skyshards? There are an awful lot of skyshards scattered throughout the open world...0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »
So I'm curious, why should delves be boosted based on having skyshards? There are an awful lot of skyshards scattered throughout the open world...
Skyshards are the main incentive to enter delves. If the 6-7 delve sky shards were in the open world people likely would never go down there unless they were questing. Of course you don’t really need those shards if you choose to skip them so why not boost the content. Every delve is the same long hallway 2 enemies, turn corner 1 enemy, go through door 2 more enemies, bookshelf in the corner of main chamber 3 enemies, skyshard with one lone enemy guarding it if anything at all, and finally mini boss fight with mechanics that most people can DPS though.
Also there are achievements tied to collecting all skyshards in the zones and beating all the delves as well why not make us work for it at least a little?1 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I believe bringing up vet dungeons / trials is relevant to a discussion of overland difficulty:
If overland is too easy, there are hard places for skilled players to seek more challenge.
If a newb is struggling with overland, where can they go to play more appropriate content? Nowhere.
Even vet trials/dungeons are becomingly increasingly easy. My group cleared all the new dungeon hardmodes within an hour of trying them for the first time (some of them only taking a few wipes), vSS was cleared by most somewhat decent groups on the first attempt, and the only slightly difficult content is stuff like vCR +3, vAS +2, etc, but even that is fairly easy to beat with a group where everyone is a competent player (not even with insane dps). Top tier groups have already speedrun all hardmodes in the upcoming trial in under a week of progression, so it's not looking great in terms of endgame PvE content this chapter. Yeah, achievements like Gryphon Heart and Godslayer are a lot harder to get, but a lot of that is just getting lucky in terms of avoiding random deaths and I've known several people that got Gryphon Heart from just a decent endgame pug group.
If someone is struggling with overland, they would have to be playing with their feet. Even complete noobs can kill mobs in a couple hits of a spammable max.3
