Why is this game so easy?

robertthebard

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

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robertthebard wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal. Questing and killing mobs is just a tedious running from A to B, only stopping to kill monsters in 2-8 seconds and it doesn't really matter how many monsters we pull either. We're basically playing an MMO that is tuned for under-geared 5-year olds. I'm saying that because my son can play this game without being able to read or have any understanding of what the skills on his hotbar do. He just mashes them randomly and kills things.

Doing delves feels so pointless. Usually you run into other players as well and everyone's just aching to kill stuff, but everything is mowed down in 2 seconds, and delves really become nothing but something you just run through, trying to get a hit or two in on things to gain exp. So incredibly boring, and such incredibly bad design.

Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player. So the moment you add more people in there, the already trivial content becomes fully and completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.

What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo. But as soon as you add a couple more players, even that content becomes quite easy. The only annoying thing is that dungeons are in general quite easy, too, but they add certain one-shot or nearly one-shot mechanics into the game to make it harder. That's a lousy way of adding challenge, because it means you can run through everything you're thrown against, but then a sudden and sometimes unavoidable mechanic prevents you from advancing further. Those are some of the most frowned-upon things from a player perspective because they're just not fun.

I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change, but overall this game needs a huge re-tuning. Doubling mob health and damage would be a start, but much more would certainly be required. Delve bosses are more like what normal mobs should be like, but even those are ridiculously easy. Would much prefer longer, harder fights with higher experience rewards per kill than the current trivial content of killing things in a few seconds without barely taking any damage.

Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?

PS: Fix the damn bug that sometimes prevents you from attacking or using abilities!!

Yeah, I notice that content is super easy...or super difficult. Not much of an in-between.

We need more 500K hp bosses across Tamriel, who have a sting. The 1.8M bosses generally require a 4-person group to kill. So, a 500K would be great for solo adventures. ZOS could probably raise some of the quest bosses' hp by 50% with little issue.

Also, still asking for solo dungeons.

Some are places the overland/public dungeon bosses do scale up a bit. I’ve seen a couple group events with 300-400k HP plus adds, though none of them are particularly difficult and can be easily overcome using tactics. I finally had a semi challenge last night in the Lions Den at the Rift. It’s the last public dungeon in the pact zones. Had to be aware a couple of times to make sure I didn’t bite it because I was mindlessly button mashing. I found the mobs there more difficult than the bosses though sadly and the group event was also a pushover. I did die there though but not because of an enemy. Jumping down from the last cliff I missed the water and landed on the rock instead! Definitely a rofl moment!

Some of the 1.8 mil world bosses from the vanilla game have easy enough mechanics to solo with decent CP, but they do scale up difficulty as you progress through the alliance zones. DLC bosses are already more robust to begin with and do often requisite assistance. People with high CP can handle many of them alone but there are a few that require help. There are also a couple that can be cheesed and kited to a place where they can be hit while dealing minor damage.

One thing I wish was a tad harder are delves. It’s just too easy to melt through anything in those with a few levels under your belt. Because there are skyshards in all of them their difficulty should be boosted a bit in general for everyone below the level of a public dungeon and probably be solo instanced with the option to group.

So I'm curious, why should delves be boosted based on having skyshards? There are an awful lot of skyshards scattered throughout the open world...

Skyshards are the main incentive to enter delves. If the 6-7 delve sky shards were in the open world people likely would never go down there unless they were questing. Of course you don’t really need those shards if you choose to skip them so why not boost the content. Every delve is the same long hallway 2 enemies, turn corner 1 enemy, go through door 2 more enemies, bookshelf in the corner of main chamber 3 enemies, skyshard with one lone enemy guarding it if anything at all, and finally mini boss fight with mechanics that most people can DPS though.

Also there are achievements tied to collecting all skyshards in the zones and beating all the delves as well why not make us work for it at least a little?

Where do we cap the "make us work for it" at? Full CP with years of vxx experience? Level 45 with no CP? Too hard, and people will complain, not hard enough, and people will complain, see this thread, and the free for all PvP thread. I do the delves because there's a yellow bar on my map that needs to be filled up, that includes a delve count, which I can't get by simply getting the skyshard, and a skyshard count where I can. I have yet to enter an empty delve, not in the last few weeks I've been back, and I don't recall being in one before I left the last time. There's been more than one instance of "where this delve boss at" only to have it spawn right on top of me... That's amusing. So I'm pretty sure people are actually using them for more than just skyshard collection.

newtinmpls

Coatmagic wrote: »

PS: Absolutely love the comment about 'basic purple gear' ROFLMA.

OMG... I missed this one.

Put in the pile of people who don't think having maxed CP on their Lvl 1 character makes a difference.

Lysette

Neoealth wrote: »

This game is too easy. That's why I'm currently playing Skyrim with the requiem mod and frostfall, ineed etc. Feels like an old school RPG. It's great.

I tried that now - it's a really good mod - and in a single player game one can do it like that, because there are no connection issues, no ping or anything like it. So far i like the difficulty of requiem, but at the same time i can clearly see, that if Skyrim would from the very start had been like requiem, I would most likely not have wanted to play it. That mod is for experienced players who want an additional challenge - especially with frostfall and the winter edition at the same time.

MartiniDaniels

newtinmpls wrote: »

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Coatmagic wrote: »

PS: Absolutely love the comment about 'basic purple gear' ROFLMA.

OMG... I missed this one.

Put in the pile of people who don't think having maxed CP on their Lvl 1 character makes a difference.

You have purple weapons from level up rewards. Also improving to purple requires like zero effort and laughable amount of gold. Also only gold weapons and gold jewelry have some notable advantage, other pieces don't have critical difference, especially between blue and purple.

Lysette

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

show previous quotes

newtinmpls wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

PS: Absolutely love the comment about 'basic purple gear' ROFLMA.

OMG... I missed this one.

Put in the pile of people who don't think having maxed CP on their Lvl 1 character makes a difference.

You have purple weapons from level up rewards. Also improving to purple requires like zero effort and laughable amount of gold. Also only gold weapons and gold jewelry have some notable advantage, other pieces don't have critical difference, especially between blue and purple.

You are so far from the reality of a really new player who knows nothing about the game in the first place. There are more than enough who do not even have traits on their gear, nor enchantments, nor would they know that they can upgrade their gear at all. Many do not know what food/beverages could do for them and such. You assume too much knowledge of the game which a newbie doesn't have.

Tigerseye

Mortac wrote: »

I'm the OP and to answer some questions:

- No, I do not have a lvl 50 character. My highest is lvl 40.
- Yes, I have played the game on and off since release. By that I mean playing maybe 2-3 weeks every year and a half. Main reason for quitting all the time is due to the things stated in the OP. Easy games bore me because they feel pointless.
- I understand content needs to be there for players of all levels, however, the current overland and delve mobs are so easy that nobody can possibly be so bad that they fail them. One also needs to keep in mind that this is an MMO where a major part of the game is balanced around terrible SOLO players. Those two don't mix all that well.
- I understand things will change in many ways at the endgame. That's why I said so in the OP as well. But delves and overworld content will not change.

Are trials for solo players?
Do veteran dungeons need full groups?

I'm very interested in playing content that is doable for 2 people. Basically hoping for content that isn't too easy for 2 people but also is impossible without more than 2 people.

It's not an "easy game".

It's an MMO.

Most MMOs are easy, until max level, because they are multiplayer.

So, they have to assume you are:


a) Playing alone (this is probably the main one, to be honest).

b) Undergeared.

c) Brand new to the game (and maybe, also, to gaming in general).

d) Low level.

e) Without CP.

f) Not the best gamer in the world, for whatever reason


Obviously, if only one of those things applies to you, you will find the overworld levelling process pretty easy.

As I say, you either have to artificially and intentionally apply lack of gear and playing alone to that list, or just put up with it, get to max level ASAP and start doing some endgame.

The chances of you finding Vet DLC content easy are fairly remote.

Some Vet dungeons can be done with fewer than (the standard) four players, but you can't use the finder to get to them.

...and trials are for larger groups than dungeons; so, no.

Tigerseye

Coppes wrote: »

He’s saying that overland content is too easy. He’s not saying that everything is too easy.

So saying “Wait until vet trials” isn’t meaning anything here.

But, it does mean something.

Maybe not in the case of "Wait until vet trials.", but in the case of "Wait until endgame.".

Because the only alternative to saying "Wait until endgame.", is saying "Abandon your friend and your gear.", or "Petition for different difficulty levels in openworld and delves".

Because you can't say "Make it much harder for everyone.", because that would exclude too many people.

MartiniDaniels

Lysette wrote: »

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MartiniDaniels wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

PS: Absolutely love the comment about 'basic purple gear' ROFLMA.

OMG... I missed this one.

Put in the pile of people who don't think having maxed CP on their Lvl 1 character makes a difference.

You have purple weapons from level up rewards. Also improving to purple requires like zero effort and laughable amount of gold. Also only gold weapons and gold jewelry have some notable advantage, other pieces don't have critical difference, especially between blue and purple.

You are so far from the reality of a really new player who knows nothing about the game in the first place. There are more than enough who do not even have traits on their gear, nor enchantments, nor would they know that they can upgrade their gear at all. Many do not know what food/beverages could do for them and such. You assume too much knowledge of the game which a newbie doesn't have.

Far from what reality? I remember how I installed ESO and how I was bored by overland right from the start, I had purple weapons from level up rewards as well as purple jewelry from dolmens. All other gear was blue and it was dropping in overland in abundance. Btw, I didn't used food because I simply not fan of using consumables outside of competitive modes so I was just stockpiling that epic level up reward food "for the future".
I really, really have no idea what person must do to have problems with overland mobs and delve bosses. As I said the only way to reach this is when person doesn't know anything about RPG genre and so he doesn't change his weapons, doesn't distribute level up points and so on...

But you know what? This game is called RPG. If somebody doesn't know how to re-equip gear to see higher numbers on stat sheet... Maybe they should try another game, and not me? To be honest I never met person who had any problems with RPG. For many first RPG was Diablo and everybody played it and people didn't see problem to realize that +15 to all stats is better then +2 despite fact that +15 gear is plain blue and +2 is gold unique item. Then it came the Baldur's Gate where your mage is one-shot by anybody who you meet in the beginning and somehow my friends all managed with it, despite nobody knew what is thaco, what is AC and what is saving throw.

Tigerseye

Malthorne wrote: »

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orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

[snip]

It is absolutely silly to complain about lack of difficulty in content, this is one of the only few games where if you desire you can handicap yourself. You want double the hp for monsters, half your weapons damage... its that simple but no! You couldn't think if that. Want monsters to do twice the damage, lower your armor levels... and like magic they'll do twice the damage.

Now what you cant get is monsters doing more moves, those dangers only exist to the player until they understand the mechanics and learns to defeat them. Thats why all dungeons slowly get easier over time as players perfect the form. You cant get that hardship back ever. But you can simulate.

So please, op and folks, give it a rest, [snip]. Use the tools you have been given to handicap yourself if you feel regular questing content is too easy.... because you "can" recreate your original experience but you can't unlearn the process.

Wow ... I find it kind of funny that the people who want to pick flowers and kill mobs with light attacks are the toxics ones in this discussion. There is nothing wrong with players advocating for changes they would like to see.

There seems to be some support in the community for increased overland difficulty. Maybe it is best that a toggle should exist to separate players between veteran and normal difficulty zones. That way both sides can be happy. This may never happen, but ultimately it’s up to ZOS to decide. All we can do is give our feedback one way or the other.

Whereas, I find it kind of funny that, just because someone understands what a typical MMO is and how it works, it is assumed he only wants to "pick flowers and kill mobs with light attacks".

I understand he was probably rude, as his post was moderated, but assumptions like yours are pretty "toxic", too.

People who assume, with no good reason, that other people only speak from a totally self centred point of view, are normally saying far more about their own thought processes and motivations than those of the person they are accusing.

Some people are capable of speaking objectively, you know.

Tigerseye

Mortiis13 wrote: »

Isn't this game pegi 18?
I understand zero difficulty in start zones to get comfy with how things work.
But we are all adults and this kindergarten Overland is offensiv in some way then even my 4 year old son can faceroll through it and the devs thinks I can't handle a challenge even through story and questing.

Spoiler

God I was disappointed then I met molag bal and kicked his ass like nothing

No risk, no fun. It's just that simple.
Even the best story is worthless then u can fist fight threw it with no armor.

Your 4 yr old may have spent his entire (short) life playing games, but not everyone has

[Edit to remove bait]

MartiniDaniels

Ok, I got it, ESO should be balanced for the people who can't see difference between 10 and 100 (though I bet if you'll propose them to take 10 or 100 USD they'll realize difference in few milliseconds and 99.9% of them will "equip" 100).

Tigerseye

Mortac wrote: »

Playing an RPG intentionally sub-optimally? No thank you. That would ruin the game just as much. A major part of playing RPGs (at least for me) is the whole process of developing your character and getting better gear/skills etc. Still, even doing it this way, the game would be ridiculously easy since you can literally run around half-naked and beat it with only a few exceptions. Yes, I'm still talking about pre-endgame overland and delves and such, since I seem to need to clarify this repeatedly.

Then, you will just have to petition for different difficulty settings to be added, for people to choose from.

Simple as that.

Good luck.

Tigerseye

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The OP is not going to be happy. Overland content can not become more demanding, it was only ever hard for new players. Because the mechanics are severely limited, you can not increase "risk", only mitigate advantage. And its unfair to any new players to demand they go through harder content on their way through the content treadmill. Overland -> dungeons -> norm dlc -> vet dung -> vet dlc dung -> trial - vet trials. If a player can't or will not progress through the levels of difficulty of progression... then why are they playing? 5 years and you haven't advanced in any difficulty beyond overland quest?

I remember when overland was difficult, the first time everyone went to fight the snake deadra in the fighters quest, destroyed people so bad that they forums were alive with complaints that is was impossible. And then we figured it out, kill the floaty balls... and we all moved on.. That's progression, we will never be there again but we will fight a new challenge with every update and additional. The Op doesn't want to progress, please folks realize this argument is beneath the players.

To be fair, that is because he doesn't really understand the concept of the typical, casual vs hardcore, endgame is everything, MMO concept.

If you just think of ESO as any other game, of course you will tend to think it's too easy, if you are an experienced single player gamer and just wander off, bored.

So, it's less that he doesn't want to progress and more that he doesn't understand that it's not a game in itself, but a path towards something more challenging (should you wish to partake in that).

Whereas, most people, for whom this isn't their first MMO, will either enjoy the levelling process journey (if they like stories and exploring) and accept that most of it won't be hard, or they will ask in zone/guild chat "What is the fastest path to max level?", use a scroll and go grind some dolmens (or whatever).

Tigerseye

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Because most players suck. I find myself regularly doing 40-60% of a group's dps as a healer. I slot 4 AOEs, 2 dots, and a dmg ult, but those people i'm outdpsing are putting 0 effort.

...and most healers suck.

Probably because they think they are DPS.

Meaning I, as DPS, have to slot a heal, to try to make sure we all stay alive, without any other heals.

Meaning, my DPS falls.

So, yeah.

Malthorne

Tigerseye wrote: »

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Malthorne wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

[snip]

It is absolutely silly to complain about lack of difficulty in content, this is one of the only few games where if you desire you can handicap yourself. You want double the hp for monsters, half your weapons damage... its that simple but no! You couldn't think if that. Want monsters to do twice the damage, lower your armor levels... and like magic they'll do twice the damage.

Now what you cant get is monsters doing more moves, those dangers only exist to the player until they understand the mechanics and learns to defeat them. Thats why all dungeons slowly get easier over time as players perfect the form. You cant get that hardship back ever. But you can simulate.

So please, op and folks, give it a rest, [snip]. Use the tools you have been given to handicap yourself if you feel regular questing content is too easy.... because you "can" recreate your original experience but you can't unlearn the process.

Wow ... I find it kind of funny that the people who want to pick flowers and kill mobs with light attacks are the toxics ones in this discussion. There is nothing wrong with players advocating for changes they would like to see.

There seems to be some support in the community for increased overland difficulty. Maybe it is best that a toggle should exist to separate players between veteran and normal difficulty zones. That way both sides can be happy. This may never happen, but ultimately it’s up to ZOS to decide. All we can do is give our feedback one way or the other.

Whereas, I find it kind of funny that, just because someone understands what a typical MMO is and how it works, it is assumed he only wants to "pick flowers and kill mobs with light attacks".

I understand he was probably rude, as his post was moderated, but assumptions like yours are pretty "toxic", too.

People who assume, with no good reason, that other people only speak from a totally self centred point of view, are normally saying far more about their own thought processes and motivations than those of the person they are accusing.

Some people are capable of speaking objectively, you know.

You are commenting about a reply to post you didn’t get to fully read. Say what you want to about me. That’s fine, however, please keep in mind you are making assumptions as well. How can you be objective without knowing the context?

The guy really lit into the OP in way that I thought was distasteful and very unfair(and I guess the mods did as well) and I stand by my response.

What is wrong with asking for an optional toggle that adds extra difficulty? An option that will not increase the difficulty one iota for those who wish things to remain the same as they are now?

Elsonso

Malthorne wrote: »

What is wrong with asking for an optional toggle that adds extra difficulty? An option that will not increase the difficulty one iota for those who wish things to remain the same as they are now?

What do you think ZOS would implement, if they agreed to something like this?

Elsonso wrote: »

This would be a "nerf slider" in ESO. At the far left is "zero nerfs". As the slider is moved to the right, the virtual nerf level would increase, making your character incrementally weaker as the slider moved. Eventually, you get to the far right, at "maximum nerf".

From one perspective, that is what is happening today as the character levels. The game moves this hidden "nerf slider" to the right with each level increase. All of our fully leveled characters are running at maximum nerf right now. This new "nerf slider" would be able to move further to the right. Of course, that is a grand generalization, but it is one way of thinking about it.

Is this what you are looking for? Basically, a slider that makes you weaker compared to the monsters around you? My thought is that this would be exactly what you get.

Malthorne

Elsonso wrote: »

What do you think ZOS would implement, if they agreed to something like this?

Some have suggested a difficulty slider or a veteran instance of a zone. i think either option is fine. There have been other suggestions presented as well. Perhaps ZOS has a completely different idea to put on the table. I think that could be interesting.

Noxavian

Elsonso wrote: »

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Noxavian wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

Overland is not the universal faceroll being described. I wish some players would group up for overland quest content. They need it.

If you genuinely need to group up for overland quest content, you need major help. This game is so mind numbingly easy in the over-world, it is insane. A level 3 could solo literally all quest content.

Unless you're trying to kill a World Boss or a dragon or maybe even a dolmen, you literally should *never* have to group up with another person.

Pretty much everyone, if not actually everyone, replying to this discussion could be considered an expert in the game.

Yes, some players genuinely do need help. Often times, they are Level 3, but they could be level 10, or 20, or 30, too. If they were us, they could solo all that content with no problems. They are not us, and it is not really fair to them to measure their ability against us. To them, these things are not "mind numbingly easy".

I have played this game for 4 years, ever since one tamriel I have never EVER came across anyone who needs help with an overland quest.

I have tried to get 3 different friends into this game and from the start, despite being complete noobs, they found the game an absolute bore. They were confused with the high stats and even more confused that quest bosses died in less than 30 seconds.

Rowjoh

the thing is the game is divided between 3 relatively equal parts:

1. Levelling a character (super quick and easy, no challenge whatsoever)

2. End game PVE vet dungeons, trials and arenas (good choice of easy, moderately difficult, difficult and extremely difficult)

3. PVP (very steep learning curve and requires heavy time investment to get to any sort of competency)

so there is a good choice of difficulty level here but you have to suffer the easy levelling process to get there.

rei91

Hi all. I see "but a casual quester" argument is used a lot in this thread.
I'm a year and something in ESO, came here because it's TES, no MMO experience and mechanics understanding before that. Mostly playing solo, listening for dialogue, rp my char, enjoying scenery and such.

I remember my first encounter with river troll, under 5lvl. Of course I died. It was interesting.
I used to struggle with delve bosses until lvl 20-25 I think, being wiped. That felt dangerous and fun.

I also remember my first disappointment - Camlorn. Burned city, all this mutilated folk, talks about the most horrible werewolf... Faolchu went down in like under 15 seconds. I think Darien even didn't get a chance to interfere with his archers lol. Really anti-climactic. After that it proceeded to be easier and easier. I thought maybe this dreadful Angof would be harder - he's a threat to the whole zone, built up for so long, right? Nope, he wasn't.
When I saw Mannimarco and his "maxed" HP bar (still don't know how to call this ornamentation on hp bars) I was excited - finally, thanks ZOS for not making one of the most enigmatic characters since tes2 a pushover! Then he went down in less than a minute. So did Molag Bal. I was in my cp already, but not too far (and probably didn't even have them distributed yet).

Yes I heard about pre-nerf Doshia (a complete pushover now, btw) and such. But I get an impression they nerfed everything like 20 times or so. I mean, can we have something in between?
I don't want my quest bosses, feared by the whole town full of seasoned guards, go down in 15 seconds! I don't want friggin Mannimarco or even worse - daedric Princes - be done with in less than a minute! I want to struggle with these fights, to actually feel the oh so horrible threat they represent to the whole city, country or Tamriel itself! How it is now is highly anti-climactic and immersion breaking for me as a quester, invested in lore and story. A pity really, because the story in this game is so wonderful.

Personally I would like all quest bosses be like Mannimarco and the real big bosses be few times harder than now. They'd be still soloable but actually challenging - like a horrible villain should.

rager82b14_ESO

I don't want things harder because the combat is bad, and also because this game is for chilled relax and progression. This game design is not really good when it comes to tougher content. Maybe if they revamp the combat sure, but new players should not be required to exploit just to beat some bosses.

Elsonso

Noxavian wrote: »

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Elsonso wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

Overland is not the universal faceroll being described. I wish some players would group up for overland quest content. They need it.

If you genuinely need to group up for overland quest content, you need major help. This game is so mind numbingly easy in the over-world, it is insane. A level 3 could solo literally all quest content.

Unless you're trying to kill a World Boss or a dragon or maybe even a dolmen, you literally should *never* have to group up with another person.

Pretty much everyone, if not actually everyone, replying to this discussion could be considered an expert in the game.

Yes, some players genuinely do need help. Often times, they are Level 3, but they could be level 10, or 20, or 30, too. If they were us, they could solo all that content with no problems. They are not us, and it is not really fair to them to measure their ability against us. To them, these things are not "mind numbingly easy".

I have played this game for 4 years, ever since one tamriel I have never EVER came across anyone who needs help with an overland quest.

I have tried to get 3 different friends into this game and from the start, despite being complete noobs, they found the game an absolute bore. They were confused with the high stats and even more confused that quest bosses died in less than 30 seconds.

I wish I could say the same. I come across these people. It is painful to watch. Even as recently as this month (April).

(Lots of edits due to paste failures... also wanted to add that not everyone I come across NEEDS help, but there are those that could certainly could use it. )

Cireous

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

It is very easy to create a build for overland with couple of proc sets where you don't even need to use mouse and ability bars. Simply move around and your sets will provide more then enough healing + summon monsters who will kill those mobs or quest bosses. So technically yes, even cat can play ESO overland without dying if you somehow connect his paws with WASD. Well, fall damage still can kill him, ironically. I think ZOS should consider and remove fall damage, hmm?@ZOS_Wrobel

Someone pretty please make a video of their cat playing Overland content and winning at it, then post it here.

Everest_Lionheart

robertthebard wrote: »

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Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal. Questing and killing mobs is just a tedious running from A to B, only stopping to kill monsters in 2-8 seconds and it doesn't really matter how many monsters we pull either. We're basically playing an MMO that is tuned for under-geared 5-year olds. I'm saying that because my son can play this game without being able to read or have any understanding of what the skills on his hotbar do. He just mashes them randomly and kills things.

Doing delves feels so pointless. Usually you run into other players as well and everyone's just aching to kill stuff, but everything is mowed down in 2 seconds, and delves really become nothing but something you just run through, trying to get a hit or two in on things to gain exp. So incredibly boring, and such incredibly bad design.

Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player. So the moment you add more people in there, the already trivial content becomes fully and completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.

What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo. But as soon as you add a couple more players, even that content becomes quite easy. The only annoying thing is that dungeons are in general quite easy, too, but they add certain one-shot or nearly one-shot mechanics into the game to make it harder. That's a lousy way of adding challenge, because it means you can run through everything you're thrown against, but then a sudden and sometimes unavoidable mechanic prevents you from advancing further. Those are some of the most frowned-upon things from a player perspective because they're just not fun.

I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change, but overall this game needs a huge re-tuning. Doubling mob health and damage would be a start, but much more would certainly be required. Delve bosses are more like what normal mobs should be like, but even those are ridiculously easy. Would much prefer longer, harder fights with higher experience rewards per kill than the current trivial content of killing things in a few seconds without barely taking any damage.

Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?

PS: Fix the damn bug that sometimes prevents you from attacking or using abilities!!

Yeah, I notice that content is super easy...or super difficult. Not much of an in-between.

We need more 500K hp bosses across Tamriel, who have a sting. The 1.8M bosses generally require a 4-person group to kill. So, a 500K would be great for solo adventures. ZOS could probably raise some of the quest bosses' hp by 50% with little issue.

Also, still asking for solo dungeons.

Some are places the overland/public dungeon bosses do scale up a bit. I’ve seen a couple group events with 300-400k HP plus adds, though none of them are particularly difficult and can be easily overcome using tactics. I finally had a semi challenge last night in the Lions Den at the Rift. It’s the last public dungeon in the pact zones. Had to be aware a couple of times to make sure I didn’t bite it because I was mindlessly button mashing. I found the mobs there more difficult than the bosses though sadly and the group event was also a pushover. I did die there though but not because of an enemy. Jumping down from the last cliff I missed the water and landed on the rock instead! Definitely a rofl moment!

Some of the 1.8 mil world bosses from the vanilla game have easy enough mechanics to solo with decent CP, but they do scale up difficulty as you progress through the alliance zones. DLC bosses are already more robust to begin with and do often requisite assistance. People with high CP can handle many of them alone but there are a few that require help. There are also a couple that can be cheesed and kited to a place where they can be hit while dealing minor damage.

One thing I wish was a tad harder are delves. It’s just too easy to melt through anything in those with a few levels under your belt. Because there are skyshards in all of them their difficulty should be boosted a bit in general for everyone below the level of a public dungeon and probably be solo instanced with the option to group.

So I'm curious, why should delves be boosted based on having skyshards? There are an awful lot of skyshards scattered throughout the open world...

Skyshards are the main incentive to enter delves. If the 6-7 delve sky shards were in the open world people likely would never go down there unless they were questing. Of course you don’t really need those shards if you choose to skip them so why not boost the content. Every delve is the same long hallway 2 enemies, turn corner 1 enemy, go through door 2 more enemies, bookshelf in the corner of main chamber 3 enemies, skyshard with one lone enemy guarding it if anything at all, and finally mini boss fight with mechanics that most people can DPS though.

Also there are achievements tied to collecting all skyshards in the zones and beating all the delves as well why not make us work for it at least a little?

Where do we cap the "make us work for it" at? Full CP with years of vxx experience? Level 45 with no CP? Too hard, and people will complain, not hard enough, and people will complain, see this thread, and the free for all PvP thread. I do the delves because there's a yellow bar on my map that needs to be filled up, that includes a delve count, which I can't get by simply getting the skyshard, and a skyshard count where I can. I have yet to enter an empty delve, not in the last few weeks I've been back, and I don't recall being in one before I left the last time. There's been more than one instance of "where this delve boss at" only to have it spawn right on top of me... That's amusing. So I'm pretty sure people are actually using them for more than just skyshard collection.

In my original post I also said they should be solo instanced with the option to group up. This way delves could scale with level/CP and give players a chance to learn a little bit about more than button mashing to win. As it stands now delves are little more than running from point A to B to C and mashing a few buttons in between. I would like to see harder enemies, a couple mobs and bosses with some real mechanics that can’t be killed before they spit out their second line of dialogue mid battle. It would be a nice practice or learning experience if delves worked differently than they do now.

idk

@Mortac

Have you cleared all trials on vet HM, even all DLC dungeons on vet HM? If not you really have no business saying the game is tuned to a 5-year-old.

FYI, most major MMORPGs design the game with scaled difficulty. Open world questing is the easiest with dungeons, vet dungeons, arenas and trials followed by the vet versions of both. The most challenging content being the vet HM trials of which about 1% have cleared all of that.

It is clearly a smart and proven business model as it works well for the largest and most successful gaming IPs with an MMORPG such as WoW, FF, and of course ESO.

MJallday

Show me your flawless conquerer title
Show me your emporer title
Show me your divayth fir co-adjitator title
Show me your dro’mathra destroyer title
Show me your immortal redeemer title
Show me your godslayer title
Show me a video where you’ve solo’d a southern elsewyr dragon

Then do it On console

Until then, the “game” is not easy

/thread

Ghnami

One Tamriel effectively removed/flattened the difficulty of overland in favor of locking difficult content in group play.

At launch, this game was not easy. It was laughably easy. All you had to do was BASH. Then they fixed it and the game was pretty hard, or rather just punishing for being underleveled, and there was no way besides ye ol grind to level. I would wear 100% purple traited gear that was at my level, fight monsters of my level, and it'd take a decent amount of time to kill, and ults felt awesome because they made it so much faster.

One Tamriel hits and my purple gear has me 2-shotting mobs, making my ult feel worthless for the most part because trash mobs die fast without it and bosses don't last long enough to take any damage besides the first hit. So I start to attempt vet group content, and I understand where the difficulty went.

Now in gold gear, 810 cp, every skill every passive, the only thing that's a challenge is DLC group content, and most of that challenge is either learning mechanics or getting an entire team to play the fight correctly. This game is too slow-paced to be truly difficult. Click ability once a second leaves little room for skill expression and mastery, press buttons at right time in right order be good at game only works if you can press those buttons at any time you choose instead of once an arbitrary second.

I played this game for a few months straight recently after a nice long break (yay northern winters) and at this point I have to agree, this game is starting to feel pretty *** simple. Maybe not easy from the get go, but once you understand the entirely unintentional concept of combat in this game, every class, every race, every spec feels like the same goddamned thing. I click, I press my ability. Or I block, I press my ability. Do I get to pick my ability? No there's pretty much one clear choice in every situation on every role, making combat feel more scripted than improvisational and engaging. Do I time things differently? Nope once a second or after the cast time, always, forever, unto eternity. No whacky combos. No split second reactions. Just once a second. No way to increase the speed,or decrease it. Just gold whatever top 10 sets you want to run with and click ability your way to the top 1%.

And now, with performance as it is, the literal only thing you do in this game--click ability--doesn't work. Thanks for passing the winter ESO, bye.

Veesk

Mortac wrote: »

show previous quotes

Mortac wrote: »

I'm very interested in playing content that is doable for 2 people. Basically hoping for content that isn't too easy for 2 people but also is impossible without more than 2 people.

Supposed to say "content that isn't too easy for 2 people but also ISN'T impossible without more than two people." Can't seem to edit the post.

Have you and your friend tried doing some of the content in Craglorn? It's a little harder than regular overland. There are a number of group quests that I remember being fun when I first started playing.

justaquickword

Imperial City has the best enemy scaling in the game.

robertthebard

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

show previous quotes

robertthebard wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Mortac wrote: »

It annoys me to no end. I want to play content that isn't tuned for a 5-year old. But it seems 90% of the PVE content is tuned for just that.

I'm not talking about raids or dungeons (public dungeons excluded). Those seem alright.

But when it comes to general questing, delves and the world in general, you can literally run around in crappy green gear 10 levels below your level and still demolish everything like nothing. How is that in any way fun?

I'm currently leveling with a friend and we're closing in on level 40. The game is a huge yawn-fest and we're craving for something to challenge us. He's playing a healer, but almost never have anything to heal. Questing and killing mobs is just a tedious running from A to B, only stopping to kill monsters in 2-8 seconds and it doesn't really matter how many monsters we pull either. We're basically playing an MMO that is tuned for under-geared 5-year olds. I'm saying that because my son can play this game without being able to read or have any understanding of what the skills on his hotbar do. He just mashes them randomly and kills things.

Doing delves feels so pointless. Usually you run into other players as well and everyone's just aching to kill stuff, but everything is mowed down in 2 seconds, and delves really become nothing but something you just run through, trying to get a hit or two in on things to gain exp. So incredibly boring, and such incredibly bad design.

Delves shouldn't even be public when the game is tuned in this way. I say this because they're literally tuned for a badly geared, completely unskilled SOLO player. So the moment you add more people in there, the already trivial content becomes fully and completely pointless from a gameplay perspective.

What's been by far the most fun so far has been killing world bosses (those skulls on the map) and running (non-public) dungeons as a duo. But as soon as you add a couple more players, even that content becomes quite easy. The only annoying thing is that dungeons are in general quite easy, too, but they add certain one-shot or nearly one-shot mechanics into the game to make it harder. That's a lousy way of adding challenge, because it means you can run through everything you're thrown against, but then a sudden and sometimes unavoidable mechanic prevents you from advancing further. Those are some of the most frowned-upon things from a player perspective because they're just not fun.

I'm not level 50 yet so some things might change, but overall this game needs a huge re-tuning. Doubling mob health and damage would be a start, but much more would certainly be required. Delve bosses are more like what normal mobs should be like, but even those are ridiculously easy. Would much prefer longer, harder fights with higher experience rewards per kill than the current trivial content of killing things in a few seconds without barely taking any damage.

Does nobody want even a tiny bit of challenge these days?

PS: Fix the damn bug that sometimes prevents you from attacking or using abilities!!

Yeah, I notice that content is super easy...or super difficult. Not much of an in-between.

We need more 500K hp bosses across Tamriel, who have a sting. The 1.8M bosses generally require a 4-person group to kill. So, a 500K would be great for solo adventures. ZOS could probably raise some of the quest bosses' hp by 50% with little issue.

Also, still asking for solo dungeons.

Some are places the overland/public dungeon bosses do scale up a bit. I’ve seen a couple group events with 300-400k HP plus adds, though none of them are particularly difficult and can be easily overcome using tactics. I finally had a semi challenge last night in the Lions Den at the Rift. It’s the last public dungeon in the pact zones. Had to be aware a couple of times to make sure I didn’t bite it because I was mindlessly button mashing. I found the mobs there more difficult than the bosses though sadly and the group event was also a pushover. I did die there though but not because of an enemy. Jumping down from the last cliff I missed the water and landed on the rock instead! Definitely a rofl moment!

Some of the 1.8 mil world bosses from the vanilla game have easy enough mechanics to solo with decent CP, but they do scale up difficulty as you progress through the alliance zones. DLC bosses are already more robust to begin with and do often requisite assistance. People with high CP can handle many of them alone but there are a few that require help. There are also a couple that can be cheesed and kited to a place where they can be hit while dealing minor damage.

One thing I wish was a tad harder are delves. It’s just too easy to melt through anything in those with a few levels under your belt. Because there are skyshards in all of them their difficulty should be boosted a bit in general for everyone below the level of a public dungeon and probably be solo instanced with the option to group.

So I'm curious, why should delves be boosted based on having skyshards? There are an awful lot of skyshards scattered throughout the open world...

Skyshards are the main incentive to enter delves. If the 6-7 delve sky shards were in the open world people likely would never go down there unless they were questing. Of course you don’t really need those shards if you choose to skip them so why not boost the content. Every delve is the same long hallway 2 enemies, turn corner 1 enemy, go through door 2 more enemies, bookshelf in the corner of main chamber 3 enemies, skyshard with one lone enemy guarding it if anything at all, and finally mini boss fight with mechanics that most people can DPS though.

Also there are achievements tied to collecting all skyshards in the zones and beating all the delves as well why not make us work for it at least a little?

Where do we cap the "make us work for it" at? Full CP with years of vxx experience? Level 45 with no CP? Too hard, and people will complain, not hard enough, and people will complain, see this thread, and the free for all PvP thread. I do the delves because there's a yellow bar on my map that needs to be filled up, that includes a delve count, which I can't get by simply getting the skyshard, and a skyshard count where I can. I have yet to enter an empty delve, not in the last few weeks I've been back, and I don't recall being in one before I left the last time. There's been more than one instance of "where this delve boss at" only to have it spawn right on top of me... That's amusing. So I'm pretty sure people are actually using them for more than just skyshard collection.

In my original post I also said they should be solo instanced with the option to group up. This way delves could scale with level/CP and give players a chance to learn a little bit about more than button mashing to win. As it stands now delves are little more than running from point A to B to C and mashing a few buttons in between. I would like to see harder enemies, a couple mobs and bosses with some real mechanics that can’t be killed before they spit out their second line of dialogue mid battle. It would be a nice practice or learning experience if delves worked differently than they do now.

That's what the entry level dungeons are for. Unfortunately, if you're not board certified, you're not welcome, mostly. I don't have to worry about it, I'm geared enough, and good enough at my class to be safe from vote kicks. But entry level dungeons are where we're supposed to be picking up the nuances of group play. If we sub them out with delves, it won't be long before they suffer from the same issues. Now they'd be easy to instance, DDO has had that since they made it, all quest areas and explorers are instanced. The explorers have a level range, where if you're above it you don't get any xp, and if you're too low you can't enter, unless you're in a group, but the quests have difficulty settings. Casual, Normal, Hard, Elite, and for most quests now, Reaper 1-10, a direct result of "the game's too easy" on the Reaper settings.

Of course, after years of lobbying for that harder setting, once they got it, it took less than two weeks for the same people to be complaining that it was "stupid hard", and needed to be nerfed. I got banned from the forums, I was laughing so hard at them, because all through the process of convincing the devs we needed that extra difficulty, I predicted that a call for nerfs would be forthcoming. Apparently someone got mad and reported me for it... Their standard battle cry when people they considered noobs was "play a lower difficulty". They got irate when that got turned on them. I'd just as soon not see ZoS waste the dev time on it here. After all, the same people complaining about how easy the overland is are the same people that are complaining if someone in their party isn't living up to standards a third party website set for grouping. Evidently, the challenging content, meaning the content that's supposed to have this group synergy running, is working just fine. How are they going to handle it when they're the ones underperforming?