Why is this game so easy?

MattVH

OP mentioned he isn't talking about the raids, dungeons, arenas, etc.
So many responses going on about those aspects anyway, using the veteran content difficulty as a counterargument.

Stop trying so hard to come up with counterarguments that aren't even relevant because of OP's disclaimer. XD

Can we focus on the hypothesis that overland, and mostly quest content, is too easy?
I'm sure a lot of you agree that quest content isn't engaging at all because of it?
Or maybe not. I can respect some struggle anyway. Surely it wouldn't hurt to think about solutions for both cases anyway?


(Imo, overland and mostly quest NPCs just shouldnt be able to die in a few seconds, especially if they are some sort of 'chosen one', gang boss, demigod, daedric prince, etc. )

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

It's difficult to make challenging solo content without it turning into a chore, as 'harder' in MMOs generally translates into 'give enemies bigger numbers', as opposed to interesting gameplay mechanics.

And consider if they made enemies harder and you died more often. You can simply respawn in 10 seconds on the spot you died and challenge the enemy again. Death without risk is pretty meaningless.


Having said all that, I wouldn't be opposed to instances of zones made for small groups of players that even solo players could challenge if they felt up to it.

MartiniDaniels

MattVH wrote: »

OP mentioned he isn't talking about the raids, dungeons, arenas, etc.
So many responses going on about those aspects anyway, using the veteran content difficulty as a counterargument.

Stop trying so hard to come up with counterarguments that aren't even relevant because of OP's disclaimer. XD

Can we focus on the hypothesis that overland, and mostly quest content, is too easy?
I'm sure a lot of you agree that quest content isn't engaging at all because of it?
Or maybe not. I can respect some struggle anyway. Surely it wouldn't hurt to think about solutions for both cases anyway?


(Imo, overland and mostly quest NPCs just shouldnt be able to die in a few seconds, especially if they are some sort of 'chosen one', gang boss, demigod, daedric prince, etc. )

They call it "casual paradise" and don't want it to be changed in any way even for other players, because "devs shouldn't waste resources on this" even if there were ton of proposed solutions which hardly requires a lot of coding. More then that we already Battle Spirit mechanic for PVP, just apply it for PVE, create several levels (veteran-hard-nightmare whatever) and be done with it.

jaws343

The problem is, the OP is duoing quest content that isn't designed in difficulty for that. Overland is designed for solo play. You cannot make it harder for two people to do without making it impossible for new players. Just like you cannot scale a dungeon meant only for 4 people to the difficulty of a 12 man trial.

If you want a challenge, stop grouping up for overland quests.

MartiniDaniels

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

It's difficult to make challenging solo content without it turning into a chore, as 'harder' in MMOs generally translates into 'give enemies bigger numbers', as opposed to interesting gameplay mechanics.

And consider if they made enemies harder and you died more often. You can simply respawn in 10 seconds on the spot you died and challenge the enemy again. Death without risk is pretty meaningless.


Having said all that, I wouldn't be opposed to instances of zones made for small groups of players that even solo players could challenge if they felt up to it.

It's not difficult. Open un-modded Skyrim, switch difficulty to legendary (which simply cuts your damage 4 times and increases damage which you receive in 3 times) and even with capped resistances you will still receive more then enough damage for challenge and enemies will require consistent pressure against them to be killed. Of course there are "cheezy" ways like conjuration and illusion, but even those doesn't guarantee anything.

shaielzafine

I mean, it's true. Mostly because of level scaling regarding the "gear 10 levels below" part. I never finished my Caldwell's Silver or original alliance storylines because the main story quests are long and the combat is too easy. That being said, there's content like PVP and vet trials if you don't like overland content. At some point I'll finish Caldwell's and the expansion storytimes, maybe zos can give us a toggle for harder overland combat setting.

Lysette

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

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wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

It's difficult to make challenging solo content without it turning into a chore, as 'harder' in MMOs generally translates into 'give enemies bigger numbers', as opposed to interesting gameplay mechanics.

And consider if they made enemies harder and you died more often. You can simply respawn in 10 seconds on the spot you died and challenge the enemy again. Death without risk is pretty meaningless.


Having said all that, I wouldn't be opposed to instances of zones made for small groups of players that even solo players could challenge if they felt up to it.

It's not difficult. Open un-modded Skyrim, switch difficulty to legendary (which simply cuts your damage 4 times and increases damage which you receive in 3 times) and even with capped resistances you will still receive more then enough damage for challenge and enemies will require consistent pressure against them to be killed. Of course there are "cheezy" ways like conjuration and illusion, but even those doesn't guarantee anything.

Typical to call the brainy way of doing it -with conjuration and illusion - the cheesy way. Maybe ESO isn't the game for you, ever considered that?

MartiniDaniels

Lysette wrote: »

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MartiniDaniels wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

It's difficult to make challenging solo content without it turning into a chore, as 'harder' in MMOs generally translates into 'give enemies bigger numbers', as opposed to interesting gameplay mechanics.

And consider if they made enemies harder and you died more often. You can simply respawn in 10 seconds on the spot you died and challenge the enemy again. Death without risk is pretty meaningless.


Having said all that, I wouldn't be opposed to instances of zones made for small groups of players that even solo players could challenge if they felt up to it.

It's not difficult. Open un-modded Skyrim, switch difficulty to legendary (which simply cuts your damage 4 times and increases damage which you receive in 3 times) and even with capped resistances you will still receive more then enough damage for challenge and enemies will require consistent pressure against them to be killed. Of course there are "cheezy" ways like conjuration and illusion, but even those doesn't guarantee anything.

Typical to call the brainy way of doing it -with conjuration and illusion - the cheesy way. Maybe ESO isn't the game for you, ever considered that?

What's "brainy" in summoning atronachs while sitting behind the stone? Ok, Illusion is not that cheezy but still it simplifies things a lot.

wishlist14

Hmmm i always see plzyers asking for help to do overland world bosses and dailies in most zones i go to.

If you feel this way, go try out the dragons in elsweyr ...players always begging for help there and they respawn continuously.

Yes the overland mobs are not OP but when you get 10 of them on you while trying to farm it gets annoying ...just my opinion.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

The OP is not going to be happy. Overland content can not become more demanding, it was only ever hard for new players. Because the mechanics are severely limited, you can not increase "risk", only mitigate advantage. And its unfair to any new players to demand they go through harder content on their way through the content treadmill. Overland -> dungeons -> norm dlc -> vet dung -> vet dlc dung -> trial - vet trials. If a player can't or will not progress through the levels of difficulty of progression... then why are they playing? 5 years and you haven't advanced in any difficulty beyond overland quest?

I remember when overland was difficult, the first time everyone went to fight the snake deadra in the fighters quest, destroyed people so bad that they forums were alive with complaints that is was impossible. And then we figured it out, kill the floaty balls... and we all moved on.. That's progression, we will never be there again but we will fight a new challenge with every update and additional. The Op doesn't want to progress, please folks realize this argument is beneath the players.

Lysette

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

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Lysette wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

It's difficult to make challenging solo content without it turning into a chore, as 'harder' in MMOs generally translates into 'give enemies bigger numbers', as opposed to interesting gameplay mechanics.

And consider if they made enemies harder and you died more often. You can simply respawn in 10 seconds on the spot you died and challenge the enemy again. Death without risk is pretty meaningless.


Having said all that, I wouldn't be opposed to instances of zones made for small groups of players that even solo players could challenge if they felt up to it.

It's not difficult. Open un-modded Skyrim, switch difficulty to legendary (which simply cuts your damage 4 times and increases damage which you receive in 3 times) and even with capped resistances you will still receive more then enough damage for challenge and enemies will require consistent pressure against them to be killed. Of course there are "cheezy" ways like conjuration and illusion, but even those doesn't guarantee anything.

Typical to call the brainy way of doing it -with conjuration and illusion - the cheesy way. Maybe ESO isn't the game for you, ever considered that?

What's "brainy" in summoning atronachs while sitting behind the stone? Ok, Illusion is not that cheezy but still it simplifies things a lot.

i never had much fun playing as a warrior type - conjuration and illusion made it fun for me. But illusion requires dedication to be powerful - you have to be careful going for both conjuration and illusion and master them both - there is no way you can put a lot of skill points into other crafts - at most eventually restoration to a certain degree, but otherwise a mage is in a robe with no armor - of course he has to be in the background, because he is not a warrior but a mage. It can be mixed with stealth skills though - cutting throats with daggers - there a robe is ok as well, it isn't noisy and dead enemies don't fight back - and if they cannot be killed, calm them down with a spell and try again once they turn their back on you - this is how i like to play - and none of those methods require me to be a warrior.

MartiniDaniels

Lysette wrote: »

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MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

It's difficult to make challenging solo content without it turning into a chore, as 'harder' in MMOs generally translates into 'give enemies bigger numbers', as opposed to interesting gameplay mechanics.

And consider if they made enemies harder and you died more often. You can simply respawn in 10 seconds on the spot you died and challenge the enemy again. Death without risk is pretty meaningless.


Having said all that, I wouldn't be opposed to instances of zones made for small groups of players that even solo players could challenge if they felt up to it.

It's not difficult. Open un-modded Skyrim, switch difficulty to legendary (which simply cuts your damage 4 times and increases damage which you receive in 3 times) and even with capped resistances you will still receive more then enough damage for challenge and enemies will require consistent pressure against them to be killed. Of course there are "cheezy" ways like conjuration and illusion, but even those doesn't guarantee anything.

Typical to call the brainy way of doing it -with conjuration and illusion - the cheesy way. Maybe ESO isn't the game for you, ever considered that?

What's "brainy" in summoning atronachs while sitting behind the stone? Ok, Illusion is not that cheezy but still it simplifies things a lot.

i never had much fun playing as a warrior type - conjuration and illusion made it fun for me. But illusion requires dedication to be powerful - you have to be careful going for both conjuration and illusion and master them both - there is no way you can put a lot of skill points into other crafts - at most eventually restoration to a certain degree, but otherwise a mage is in a robe with no armor - of course he has to be in the background, because he is not a warrior but a mage. It can be mixed with stealth skills though - cutting throats with daggers - there a robe is ok as well, it isn't noisy and dead enemies don't fight back - and if they cannot be killed, calm them down with a spell and try again once they turn their back on you - this is how i like to play - and none of those methods require me to be a warrior.

True. And now imaging all that in ESO overland and how much more immersive and engaging game will be.

MaxJrFTW

Because most players suck. I find myself regularly doing 40-60% of a group's dps as a healer. I slot 4 AOEs, 2 dots, and a dmg ult, but those people i'm outdpsing are putting 0 effort.

Lysette

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

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Lysette wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

It's difficult to make challenging solo content without it turning into a chore, as 'harder' in MMOs generally translates into 'give enemies bigger numbers', as opposed to interesting gameplay mechanics.

And consider if they made enemies harder and you died more often. You can simply respawn in 10 seconds on the spot you died and challenge the enemy again. Death without risk is pretty meaningless.


Having said all that, I wouldn't be opposed to instances of zones made for small groups of players that even solo players could challenge if they felt up to it.

It's not difficult. Open un-modded Skyrim, switch difficulty to legendary (which simply cuts your damage 4 times and increases damage which you receive in 3 times) and even with capped resistances you will still receive more then enough damage for challenge and enemies will require consistent pressure against them to be killed. Of course there are "cheezy" ways like conjuration and illusion, but even those doesn't guarantee anything.

Typical to call the brainy way of doing it -with conjuration and illusion - the cheesy way. Maybe ESO isn't the game for you, ever considered that?

What's "brainy" in summoning atronachs while sitting behind the stone? Ok, Illusion is not that cheezy but still it simplifies things a lot.

i never had much fun playing as a warrior type - conjuration and illusion made it fun for me. But illusion requires dedication to be powerful - you have to be careful going for both conjuration and illusion and master them both - there is no way you can put a lot of skill points into other crafts - at most eventually restoration to a certain degree, but otherwise a mage is in a robe with no armor - of course he has to be in the background, because he is not a warrior but a mage. It can be mixed with stealth skills though - cutting throats with daggers - there a robe is ok as well, it isn't noisy and dead enemies don't fight back - and if they cannot be killed, calm them down with a spell and try again once they turn their back on you - this is how i like to play - and none of those methods require me to be a warrior.

True. And now imaging all that in ESO overland and how much more immersive and engaging game will be.

Just that neither stealth nor illusion are implemented in any meaningful way in ESO - and there is the issue of ping as well. i can hardly ever get out of red in time and therefore have to take the damage most of the time. I don't need the content to be harder, because then I couldn't play it anymore.

Cireous

Hopefully when they rework the champion point system some of the power creep can and will be addressed. Fingers crossed that, at the same time, they will also introduce an optional difficulty increase, in some form, for the Overland. The Creative Director discussed in an interview not too long ago that they were very much considering adding some form of extra difficulty when working on One Tamriel, but it didn't make it in. They seem to be aware that a large portion of the player base is dissatisfied with the current difficulty level and will perhaps look into what can be done about it. That's my very optimistic take away, but I could be reading into things a bit.

justaquickword

I'd advise all regular forum users to keep their responses to this sort of thread handy and get ready to copy and paste them a lot because there are going to be literally HUNDREDS of threads like this over the next few months when the new chapter drops.

Imagine Michael Caine in Zulu...

"Skyrim Fanbois... Fousands Of 'Em..."

Forewarned is forearmed. Keep those cookie cutter responses close at hand. You are going to need them...

Lysette

Cireous wrote: »

Hopefully when they rework the champion point system some of the power creep can and will be addressed. Fingers crossed that, at the same time, they will also introduce an optional difficulty increase, in some form, for the Overland. The Creative Director discussed in an interview not too long ago that they were very much considering adding some form of extra difficulty when working on One Tamriel, but it didn't make it in. They seem to be aware that a large portion of the player base is dissatisfied with the current difficulty level and will perhaps look into what can be done about it. That's my very optimistic take away, but I could be reading into things a bit.

i think they wanted a difficulty slider like it is in single player TES games. in both directions - to be easier and harder. But that is a problem when it comes to group content, because it could be abused and that in return would crash the game economy.

MartiniDaniels

Lysette wrote: »

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Cireous wrote: »

Hopefully when they rework the champion point system some of the power creep can and will be addressed. Fingers crossed that, at the same time, they will also introduce an optional difficulty increase, in some form, for the Overland. The Creative Director discussed in an interview not too long ago that they were very much considering adding some form of extra difficulty when working on One Tamriel, but it didn't make it in. They seem to be aware that a large portion of the player base is dissatisfied with the current difficulty level and will perhaps look into what can be done about it. That's my very optimistic take away, but I could be reading into things a bit.

i think they wanted a difficulty slider like it is in single player TES games. in both directions - to be easier and harder. But that is a problem when it comes to group content, because it could be abused and that in return would crash the game economy.

Battle spirit rules are turned on/off automatically even within same zone when duel takes place. So restricting it's use in group content won't require to do anything.

Shantu

One of those subjects that refuses to go away. If you want overland to be hard, play like a newbie. Remove all your CP's, attribute points, and wear the gear and weapons you find laying around. Adjust to the game and stop complaining that the game should adjust to you. It's not going to change.

For vets, overland is supposed to be easy because the only time we play it is to level up a toon...and no one wants to spend 5 minutes fighting a mudcrab.

justaquickword

Shantu wrote: »

One of those subjects that refuses to go away. If you want overland to be hard, play like a newbie. Remove all your CP's, attribute points, and wear the gear and weapons you find laying around. Adjust to the game and stop complaining that the game should adjust to you. It's not going to change.

For vets, overland is supposed to be easy because the only time we play it is to level up a toon...and no one wants to spend 5 minutes fighting a mudcrab.

Mudcrabs are OP and responsible for all the performance issues. I read it on the Internet.

GarnetFire17

Well because new players complained that areas were too hard and they couldn't explore where they wanted to. So when they dumbed down all the overland content. A lot of people didn't like it but most people treated it like a big improvement. You can never please everyone. sorry.

Lysette

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

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Lysette wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

Hopefully when they rework the champion point system some of the power creep can and will be addressed. Fingers crossed that, at the same time, they will also introduce an optional difficulty increase, in some form, for the Overland. The Creative Director discussed in an interview not too long ago that they were very much considering adding some form of extra difficulty when working on One Tamriel, but it didn't make it in. They seem to be aware that a large portion of the player base is dissatisfied with the current difficulty level and will perhaps look into what can be done about it. That's my very optimistic take away, but I could be reading into things a bit.

i think they wanted a difficulty slider like it is in single player TES games. in both directions - to be easier and harder. But that is a problem when it comes to group content, because it could be abused and that in return would crash the game economy.

Battle spirit rules are turned on/off automatically even within same zone when duel takes place. So restricting it's use in group content won't require to do anything.

If you do group content as a group - but what if you do it as a group of solo players not grouped up and with sliders all on very easy - they could kill anything with ease, farm mass amounts of high value stuff and ruin the economy with it.

MartiniDaniels

Lysette wrote: »

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MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

Hopefully when they rework the champion point system some of the power creep can and will be addressed. Fingers crossed that, at the same time, they will also introduce an optional difficulty increase, in some form, for the Overland. The Creative Director discussed in an interview not too long ago that they were very much considering adding some form of extra difficulty when working on One Tamriel, but it didn't make it in. They seem to be aware that a large portion of the player base is dissatisfied with the current difficulty level and will perhaps look into what can be done about it. That's my very optimistic take away, but I could be reading into things a bit.

i think they wanted a difficulty slider like it is in single player TES games. in both directions - to be easier and harder. But that is a problem when it comes to group content, because it could be abused and that in return would crash the game economy.

Battle spirit rules are turned on/off automatically even within same zone when duel takes place. So restricting it's use in group content won't require to do anything.

If you do group content as a group - but what if you do it as a group of solo players not grouped up and with sliders all on very easy - they could kill anything with ease, farm mass amounts of high value stuff and ruin the economy with it.

It is really, really easy to restrict this. ZOS doesn't even need to code anything new in group content for that. There will be simply no "battle spirit" de-buffs for it. Also staff from group content can't be sold and is bind to the group which farmed it.

AcadianPaladin

Lysette wrote: »

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Cireous wrote: »

Hopefully when they rework the champion point system some of the power creep can and will be addressed. Fingers crossed that, at the same time, they will also introduce an optional difficulty increase, in some form, for the Overland. The Creative Director discussed in an interview not too long ago that they were very much considering adding some form of extra difficulty when working on One Tamriel, but it didn't make it in. They seem to be aware that a large portion of the player base is dissatisfied with the current difficulty level and will perhaps look into what can be done about it. That's my very optimistic take away, but I could be reading into things a bit.

i think they wanted a difficulty slider like it is in single player TES games. in both directions - to be easier and harder. But that is a problem when it comes to group content, because it could be abused and that in return would crash the game economy.

I should think it would be easy enough for any difficulty slider setting to be set to default for all whenever a member of a group. If a skill like barrier or an armor set like Ebon Armory can change behavior when grouped, surely a difficulty slider could as well.

Tamriel 1 opened up all zones to all players at all levels. I, for one, love that but it does create challenges for scaling difficulty. Experienced players may want all overland buffed while new players don't. And remember players who have handicaps or physical limitations (I know many). I honestly can't think of a better solution than a difficulty slider so each player can influence their own level of challenge when soloing overland/quest content. I'm also confident that the devs are clever enough to apply the ingenuity to figure out how to implement it.

newtinmpls

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

you could walk around butt naked and the quests/overland mobs would still be no threat.

No seriously. Try it. Remove all of your armor, go fight something and watch as they still do practically nothing to you.

I tried it.

I'm not a good enough player to do a dolmen naked.

I do think for a while there was a group of "naked nords" who would do that tho.

Oakenaxe

Shantu wrote: »

One of those subjects that refuses to go away. If you want overland to be hard, play like a newbie. Remove all your CP's, attribute points, and wear the gear and weapons you find laying around. Adjust to the game and stop complaining that the game should adjust to you. It's not going to change.

For vets, overland is supposed to be easy because the only time we play it is to level up a toon...and no one wants to spend 5 minutes fighting a mudcrab.

I agree with this person. If you're facing open world with a veteran build, what would you expect? You can always make things more interesting by limiting your resources. A lot of people and new players may not have the same gaming skill that you have, let's not forget them!

Rave the Histborn

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

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terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Have you played the arenas, vet dungeons or trials yet?

Please tell me, how completing arenas, vet dungeons and trials will help player to experience Main story of ESO which is the reason why majority of original TES players are coming to this game?

Here you have feedback of that player which is often used as an excuse of that lack difficulty. And newbie who doesn't know anything in-depth about mechanics, about animation cancelling, weaving, min-maxing and so on directly reports that game is too easy.

Mortac, unfortunately it will be only worse as you level up. As for now at least public dungeons and world bosses provide some challenge, but once you will be getting closer to CP300 and then to CP500 those will become pointlessly easy too, with some exceptions.

On the other hand, there are veteran dungeons and veteran trials - those will provide challenge as you level up, and some of them will be challenging even after you reach top level.

You're in the wrong game if you want overland to be hard. It isn't meant to be and there's plenty of content that is plenty hard where you experience the TES storylines.

MilkJugg24

There have been a lot of ideas about a 'difficulty slider' going around. While I think being free to change the difficulty at whim is something unrealistic in this game specifically, I have seen some systems which work similarly.

In the ARPG Grim Dawn, you can create a character and select 'Veteran Mode' as a difficulty checkbox. Basically, it bumps the HP, Damage, Affixes, etc. of enemy mob packs, and increases the rewards dropped by everything you fight. In ESO, if this was a feature which could only be toggled on and off in major cities, I could see this being a great incentive for people to enjoy solo content more, rather than getting bored of the stomp.The quest reward increase would simply be Rare items instead of Magic, Epic instead of Rare, and Legendary instead of Epic. Obviously, the HP and Damage scaling would have to outweigh the increased rewards in order for it to be balanced.

MattVH

Shantu wrote: »

One of those subjects that refuses to go away. If you want overland to be hard, play like a newbie. Remove all your CP's, attribute points, and wear the gear and weapons you find laying around. Adjust to the game and stop complaining that the game should adjust to you. It's not going to change.

For vets, overland is supposed to be easy because the only time we play it is to level up a toon...and no one wants to spend 5 minutes fighting a mudcrab.

Some are simply asking for another 'option' though. I'm either ignoring or not seeing the requests that demand the whole game to change. Just an option, extra mode or toggle. What's the harm in that?

I'm not too sure about overland only being there for leveling up. Surely the overland, and the large amount of quests in there, are also meant for vets/leveled players? I sure hope so

And i agree, a mudcrab fight shouldn't last 5 minutes A quest boss could be a bit more challenging though.

Jayman1000

I couldnt agree more from the pov of my own gameplay desires. In Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim there was nothing better than to delve down in a mysterious and dangerous crypt/cave/fortress with potentially powerful enemies lurking around. Occasionally you'd clear some hallways or rooms and find a new unread short novel, and to relax from all the tension you'd make a cup of coffee/tea and get back to read the novel. Those were the sweetest moments. I'd wish ESO delves were a tense experience like that. It's a shame because combat in eso (in contrast to aforementioned Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim) is actually quite satisfactory and requires skill and knowledge, but that's entirely wasted when it comes to overland content, delves included.

But to answer your question I believe it's all part of the "easy to access, everyone can do it, no one rage quits" strategy.