PTS Update 26 - Feedback Thread for Vampire & Werewolf

Alexium

1. Some players can't bite my character. No any synergy for them. Also the Vampirism effect may disappear if exit from the Crypt of the Blood Matron or/and cancel quest before end.

2. I experienced troubles with feeding and and Blade of Woe.

3. I don't like the situation when in a wilderness some NPCs report me as a vampire when I use my "mist form"

4. Some speakable NPCs refuse to being mesmerized

RouDantes

Personally, I am ecstatic that the Vampire Scion morph has a female version, and I think it looks awesome. I really hope we get a similar looking skin!

I also particularly love the new feeding animations, and I think the changes to feeding mechanics and vamp stage advancement/regression makes much more sense now than before.

However, I am very unhappy that stamina vampire builds are now obsolete. 3 of my 4 vampire characters are stamina based, and I think it is incredibly lame that I'll either have to cure them, or COMPLETELY respec them and replace their awesome sharp weapons with magic walking sticks. Surely there should be at least ONE stamina morph that deals weapon, poison, or disease damage...

I think it's cool that higher stages make vamp abilities cheaper, but making everything else cost more... especially on top of no more resource regen passive... that obliterates one of the main reasons to become a vampire and massively reduces the variety of viable builds.

Another critique I have is that the drawbacks of stage 4 seem insanely steep, specifically reducing health regen by ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. The self heals are not nearly strong enough to to compensate, especially when several of the abilities *cost* health. The togglable continuous self health drain is literally a suicide toggle with no health regen.

Also, I had hoped that you guys would change the way vampirism makes all of our body and face markings so faded. It doesn't make much sense, looks weird, and ruins most of the marking options. If anything, being paler should make tattoos stand out even more, in contrast, but that is much less of a issue than my other gripes.

I really hope you guys change the morphs to have a few stamina build friendly options, cause it really sucks to have all my builds be completely broken, especially now that Vampirism looks cooler than ever...

icefyer_ESO

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

If this mechanic is not negotiable then I suggest a 3%/6%/9%/12% or 0%/5%/10%/15% non-vampire skill increase.

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

I love almost all of the vamp changes. Stage 4 cost increase is ridiculous, even more so for stamina characters. It should go from 2-10, not 5-20.

I'd be fine with the first scaling myself, perhaps as Darth suggested to keep it like how most buffs and debuffs are even, like minor buffs being 8%, some being 10%, and major buffs being 25-30%. There's no way a 20% cost increase to over 100 abilities in the game is worth it.

icefyer_ESO

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

I love almost all of the vamp changes. Stage 4 cost increase is ridiculous, even more so for stamina characters. It should go from 2-10, not 5-20.

I'd be fine with the first scaling myself, perhaps as Darth suggested to keep it like how most buffs and debuffs are even, like minor buffs being 8%, some being 10%, and major buffs being 25-30%. There's no way a 20% cost increase to over 100 abilities in the game is worth it.

And since for whatever reason I can't edit posts...The fact this cost increase also applies to ultimate abilities is incredibly stupid and cripples basically every single ultimate in the game outside of the very, very few that cost like...90 or so.

noblecron

So far I've found vampirism to be fun and great.

Positives:

Love the look of Vampire scion. Honestly feels more like a folkloric vampire than what's typically seen in media with the bat influenced ones.

Most of the skills are cool

Feeding animations are awesome.

Complaints and nitpicks though:

I don't care for the skills that reduce health but I never cared for those kinds of skills to begin with so really a nitpick.

I would really really love for some Argonian and Khajiit features to show up in the vampire lord form like bone colossus but skyrim vampire lords were the same way so it isn't no big deal and really that's just a personal nitpick.

The cost increase to abilities is odd but I can work around that honestly.

Not being able to interact with merchants and npcs in even stage 1 is kind of odd also unless I encountered a bug. Am I supposed to use mesmerize on them?

I miss the ability to turn into a swarm of bats. I was kind of hoping the old ult would be turned into an ability at least but if you guys are doing a mount, polymorph or momento in a future update, that's fine then.

Zer0oo

Got vampire from crown store and worked fine on the 810cp tempelt
Mainly pvp point of View:

Impressions:

Feeding is really bad. First the WOE synergy popups and the vampire ones does almost never popup(this was in light armor). Changed to medium armor and it got better but still clunky and confusing.

Skill cost increase is insane. Just compare it to to 5% cost increase from new moon with almost 500 spell and weapon damage. Which many forces you to use only vampire skills but they are not well enough skills to make a good build work in pvp or pve. Vampire has not dots, aoe, burst heals, hots, armor or any defensive skills outside of mistform

Skills
Vampire drain sounds okish. Main fear is that players with really high hp pool will just abuse this skill to get almost unkillable.
Not a big fan of adding too many snares in the game with this bad and limited counter play to snares.

Mistform is good. Kinda wish it would give 3-6 sec major exp after leaving it.

The cc is really good. Right now we do not have a lot of good ccs in the game so any class independent instant cc is welcome.

The ultimate is boring. It looks like almost a copy-pasta from necro and the play feeling is kinda off( Hard to describe but it does not feel right how this big character moves). Having a morph that removes the negative effects while in ultimate form is boring and underwhelming too. A way better idea would be to make it also immune to roots and snares because of floating over the ground

The hp-draining toggle: As strong as this buff is that it gives, the damage you take is really too much. 1khp/s is a lot especial if you can not be healed by others and have 0 hp regen due to being a vampire.

The passives:
Having 300spd/wd after leaving stealth is a nice idea but i fear it will be just useful for nb with cloak or gankers. Not that i do not like this passive but all classes other than nb can not use it too the fullest. -> this passive is really nice on nb but not really strong on others

After running 3 sec turn inv: I have to say i love the idea. I tested it and i liked it but it does feel longer than 3 sec. I tested it on both light and medium armor. In light armor it feels off compared to the speed in medium. It would work better if you get a 3 sec 50% movement speed buff while entering and invisible so you feel like a vampire you is charging in to fight in full speed. I am also slightly worried about players who will use this passive just to run away in fights.

Ruder

Vampire

Skills are great, but penalties are waaaay to high.
Non vamp skills should be no more than 10% increase at stage 4

Additionally
The Vampire Lord set

Stage 1/2/3/4
Flame Damage Taken 1/2/4/6%
Regular Ability Cost Increase: 1/2/4/6%
Vampire Ability Cost Decrease 5/10/15/20%

- this set cost reduction is not additive , this means that on stage 4 you reduce the cost of the vampire skills by ONLY 12% (not 20%, because you reduce 20% of the remaining 60% cost after the stage reduction)
Also this set is additionally
The regular ability cost increase by 6% is too much, 1/2/3/4% would be more suitable

If this set goes live, no one with his right mind will run it unless roleplaying.



Werewolf

Overall pretty good changes, but there is still a problem with the werewolf healing (costs WAY TOO MUCH)

Another remark is:
Hircine’s Rage (morph): Casting this ability at full Health now grants Major Berserk for 6 seconds, but also causes you to take additional damage.

* This condition makes it impossible to use in PvP Combat 99% of the time (unless you run invisibility potion LOL)

My suggestion:
Rework this bonus % to damage done and damage taken to be UNIQUE and scale to % of missing health:
When you heal at 100% health you get 25% bonus damage done, but you take 25% more damage for X seconds
If you heal while on 90% health then you get 15% bonus damage done and 15% bonus damage taken.
If you heal while when below 75% health you gain 10% movement speed

Hiricine's Fortitude - gain % health and stamina recovery based on the healed amount
The recovery duration is ONLY 2 seconds which is USELESS, please extended the duration of the recoveries to 6 or 8 seconds

RaddlemanNumber7

It's very obvious from the tutorial that NPC vampires have still got the old style of vampirism, drinking blood to reduce their vampirism stage. This makes the new content seem very incoherent. Good-guy NPC's must drink blood to maintain control of their condition while good-guy PC's must abstain. This especially grates when interacting with "friendly" vampires like House Ravenwatch. For existing vampire player characters there seems to be no explanation given why they are suddenly different from every other vampire on Tamriel.

I also feel my vampire characters are now being forced to remain at stage 1 in order to maintain their good guy status, which definitely seems more of a curse than a kiss now. It's like the game is automatically gimping these characters for me because I want do some RP.

noblecron

Another thing I just thought of too is the vampire drain not so bright

MopeyHat

I'm just going to address vampire because I haven't played through the werewolf changes yet.

Vampire
If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
I just played with the maxxed out skill line on a template.

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
I was very amused to hear what NPCs had to say to me being a stage 4 vamp. It's certainly way more immersive.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
With the justice changes, way better than before. I still kind of with they had some interaction with night vs sunlight but I know that's tough in an MMO world.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
It's way more like I expect a skill line to look now: spammable, buff, self-heal, stun, escape.

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
No. As a template I tried out throwing together a magicka DPS build that was centered on vampire skills: the spammable, buff, heal and ult all on my front bar with normal DoTs on my backbar; since the cost increase/decrease was encouraging me to use the vamp skills.

The problem is the vamp skills were completely underwhelming. Having the extra damage linked to costing health, having low health, and not being able to heal is just way too risky, and even then totally underperforms in damage output because you have to stop and heal. Even if I were in PvP, it would take a pretty niche build to do anything that performs as well as our current builds. I think it would be more interesting to see effects like, reduces healing taken or increases damage taken when going this "risk vs reward" route - especially drop the "you can only heal yourself" nonsense, because it really takes from the grouping aspect of this game. On my healer or tank, I would definitely never use any of these skills. They have almost no group or support benefits at all. (Something that I was very happy so see on werewolves!)

The #1 con is the direct cost increase to all vamp skills on stage 1. This absolutely needs to go. Maybe tie it to how many vamp skills you have on your bar or if you have a vamp skill on your bar. Having vamp on day 1 Greymoor should not immediately reduce your abilities.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
Yeah, though I still really wish stage 1 was a little less purple looking. When we have all these skins and polymorphs and things, there's no reason to be so obvious about being a vampire. I don't really think the feeding needed to be flipped to increase stages.

How does feeding feel overall?
I really like the new animations. The range thing with Blade of Woe/Feed synergies still feels really goofy and trips me up.

Tommy_The_Gun

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Werewolf

• Is your play pattern as a werewolf different with these changes?

Yep, it is slightly different, as there are "more button combination" to press - so to speak. Because of WW skill improvements (like Pounce having added functionality) There actually is some form of rotation now when playing a WW.

Previously it was just buff up, and left-click, left click, left click & occasionally use skill etc.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Werewolf

• Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live?

Well, it is way better on PTS than on live server, but some things feel "clunky":
- Pounce & Carnage activation. Ponce-jumping feels like it is in "Slow-motion", or bullet time. Also, almost always bugs-out when I try to activate it, so the animation is "jammed" in this pre-jump position for 2 - 3 seconds. That is a lot.
Cranage also feels "clunky" as it can not be animation cancelled and kinda locks my character is place for 1 - 2 seconds.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Werewolf

• Do you have any other general feedback?

Yep. There are 2 pain points imho:
- Clunkiness of Werewolf Pounce gap closer. It needs to be more responsive. WW does not have any CC immunity tool, so a badly working gap-closer adds a lot of penalty to WW mobility - since it is supposed to be fast paced threat on the battlefield. Also, the added secondary execute functionality is kinda slow too. It needs to be more fluid and not lock me in an animation.
- WW heal (Hircine's Bounty) is VERY expensive. It should either heal for more, or be a bit cheaper (like 10 - 15% less cost).

Anbokr

Is your play pattern as a werewolf different with these changes?

Yes and no, similar style, but get to press more buttons on the PTS. Overall, I am happy with the playstyle on the PTS.

Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live?

I find it more enjoyable on the PTS than on live. More buttons is always more fun, as well as the added utility that adds some more interesting gameplay to the werewolf style.

Do you have any other general feedback?

I don't know if it's intended, but the "aggressively scaling execute" does very little damage. I think as people much better than me start parsing, my inclination is that this is barely worth using if not worth at all. It barely does more damage than the pitiful disease bleed we have on claws, and it's supposed to be this low health execute lol?

Also not sure if intended, but pounce is only adding 1s to werewolf timer when it used to add 4s. I hope it's not, because the previous qol of being able to stay in werewolf when leaping once after each pull in a dungeon was very very nice. One second is nothing, and I really don't want to go back to lagging behind my friends while I desperately eat corpses to stay in werewolf.

My third mention to look out for, is I think these changes might make WW burst in pvp too high, but simultaneously aren't enough of a boost to PvE. So when tuning happens, try to taper just a teensy bit of the crazy burst given in the kit, while also bringing up PvE a bit more (perhaps through a buff to Berserker bleed dps and Infectious claws DPS -- the former probably won't be used in PvP anymore since Pack Leader is too good in that realm, while the later doesn't do much damage to begin with).

Thanks for these changes though overall, loving my werewolf!

cabgold

Yeah, I was hoping for more of a complete self-contained vampire build vs a few highly situational skills that have such horrible downsides that it doesn't make it worth it. I will be curing vampirism from all my characters if this goes live. Such a disappointment. Vampire has such potential and this rework seems wasted. I would rather you pull the rework and try again vs put this live and make minor tweaks over time. I am curious, do others think this reword is awesome or just meh to bad?

Thraben

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Vampire and Werewolf changes. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Vampire
  [1] If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly? [2] Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities? [3] Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive? [4] Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world? [5] Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game? [6] Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS? [7] Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore? [8] How does feeding feel overall?
  []] Werewolf
  [9] Is your play pattern as a werewolf different with these changes? [10] Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live?
  [11] Do you have any other general feedback?

Vamp

1) -
2) I think so
3) yes, though other players should be able to hunt me down
4) Well, the sun should weaken me a bit more
5) yes
6) As a tanky StamSorc, I find the changes very promising. I also support the idea that Vampirism is a CURSE, and its implementation. 99% of the people I know just cherrypick the passives or are Vamp because of mist form.
7) Yes, but I would prefer the negative skill costs to be connected with the day/ night cycle, ie. weak during the day, and strong in the night or in dungeons.
8) Clunky. 7/8 attempts end with a Blade of Woe. I suggest to allow the Feeding only from persons that are facing you, and Blade of Woe only for persons who are not. Besides, I would prefer to automatically gap-close onto a victims neck.


Werewolf

9) Not really, but the changes are good
10) No, because it still isn't possible to run a Werewolf pack again in Cyro for more than, say, 20 seconds. Which is bad for everyone, as such a PvP group is far from OP.

11a) Vamp

Eviscerate: There is a german translation error. It tells us that this skill is essentially a magicka melee execute skill. Which would be awesome, by the way, and greatly needed by MagWardens, MagTemplars and MagNercoes.

Blood Frenzy: I REALLY like the skill. But, knowing the limitations of our PvP servers, I´d suggest to implement a maximum duration, like 15 seconds, so that you don't kill yourself just because of a bad lag or because the bar swap is less than responsive.

Vampiric Drain: Make one real Stamina Morph, and one real Magicka Morph. Add a + skill cost debuff to the victim for 10 seconds (aka "drain").

Mezmerize: Nice RP skill, but there are sooooooo many skills that do the same thing. Change into... something.

11b) Werewolf

Pounce: The Dot of the second activation is too low. 10/10 people would execute with a HA or a Piercing Howl instead.

Hircines Bounty -> Fortitude: I can't see anyone using that morph. Change it into a reactive group heal (when an enemy is defeated, activating the skill will heal allies around you for 45% of the base heal)

Piercing Howl -> Howl of Despair: Pack play isn't viable atm, and so this morph won't see much use. The synergy should be a benefit of the Pack Leader itself, so that this morph could be freed up. I'd prefer a range increase to 40m, so that you don't have to fear losing your werewolf form in Cyro all the time.

Please abolish the 80% limit of the Call of the Pack passive, WW packs are not strong enough to justify it.

TyranicalTyri

Q. If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
A. I had no issue transferring my character over and my XP seemed to carry over just fine

Q. Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
A. Not Applicable, character was already a vampire.

Q. Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
A. Absolutely not. This feels like it's ruining gameplay. It was bad for Necro, it's once more bad for Vamp. I don't feel we should be punished for the game being wonky with detection.

Q. Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
A. No. I don't feel like a Vampire anymore, I feel like some crazy mutant thing... I think the reversal of how stages work was a mistake. I don't quite like the new the appearances match either. Consistently, feeding in Elder Scrolls games is supposed to bring you closer to being human, not looking like a hideous friggen monster. It feels completely out of whack after playing Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim and I do not like this change.

Q. Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
A. I feel like... It has a bit more you can do with it? But these stages are completely broken. I feel like you're being punished for feeding, not rewarded. Isn't the point of being a vampire to feed to gain power and blend in?

Q. Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
A. No. As a Stamina based DPS, the magicka focus of the skill tree renders me unable to play optimally with my Nightblade. DPS

Q. Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
A. Absolutely not. I have played vampire characters all throughout my Elder Scrolls RPG experience. Starting from Morrowind and all throughout all the games including ESO. Check my characters, most of them are Vampires. My biggest gripe was I felt our abilities were lackluster and our feeding animation was absolutely horrible. The stage system was fine as it was, and I felt rewarded for doing my Vampire thing. I felt like sneaking about and getting my fangs into people was a good thing. In Dawnguard I played with Better Vampires, which basically rewarded your feedings with buffing your skills and unlocking new abilities the more you fed. I feel that in lore, the more blood a vampire drinks, the more powerful they become overall. Reverse how feeding works, take it back to how it used to be. It's bad enough that it makes me desire a refund if these changes go through.

Q. How does feeding feel overall?
A. Please refer to my above statement. The stage system was fine as it was, it did not need this change. Even more so with the vampire's appearances. Atleast make it so feeding makes you look BETTER as it has been in literally EVERY SINGLE GAME BEFORE THIS ONE. It's absolutely horrendous to have completely redone this in such a way that makes it feel like I'm being punished for feeding. The only thing I like about the new feeding methods? The animations are great. Some of them feel a little jerky but all in all, the new animations are great. We need the ability to change the bindings for the blade of Woe or feeding though. They conflict and it makes close ranged feeding impossible.

lipechacal

Make Vampiric Drain a strong heal over time-dot ability that creates a link between caster and enemy so that you dont have to always be spamming/channeling this. Otherwise it is just a boring weak skill used to build ultimate only, not a fun and dynamic one.

Other sugestion is to make a synergy on the feed passive to allow feeding stunned players while in combat, granting some buffs/hot for x duration.

This will bring a more unique and interesting playstyle to Vampires.

Please consider this changes!!S2

Kilcosu

Parsing on a 3 mil dummy using Dark Elf Magicka Nightblade Vampire stage 4 felt fine, very little sustain issues using the Eviscerate morph (arterial burst) as a spammable vs the class ability health funnel or elemental weapon

simmering frenzy was easy to sustain as magblade as well with merciless resolve procs, siphoning attacks and soul tether ultimate or the blood scion transformation.

Transforming into and out of the blood scion interrupts the natural flow of combat and 20 seconds really feels awfully short, and holding a staff in the models hands just looks funny. i'd almost rather it disappear and shoot inferno blasts from the hands while weaving arterial burst.

all in all. Magicka nightblade vampire lord feels like a good spot. hopefully future adjustments help other classes feel the same as well

Paradisius

Vampire

-If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Yes, my skill line transfered properly
-Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
Yes I did enjoy it, it gives some passable explanations to the changes to vampires not seen in other games (Feeding to get stronger)
-Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Yes, bankers and merchants refusing to interact with me at stage 4 was a nice touch
-Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
-The addition of the Justice system combined with the random encounters make me feel like I truly am the monstrous creature a vampire is
-Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
I feel like it has the necessary tools to be a full fledged skill line now (A buff, a spammable, a stun, an escape, and a heal)
-Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
I had to make some adjustments to my equipment to have more recovery to be comfortable, but otherwise I was easily able to incorporate the spammable, buff, and ultimate into my build as a Magicka DPS Necro
-Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
Yes and no, it gives lore acceptable explanations as to why Noxophilic Sanguivoria behaves the way it behaves, however the Vampire Lord transformation is still very lore unfriendly in my eyes, I would have liked something different.
-How does feeding feel overall?
Feeding animations are obviously still unpolished, but I love the direction, my only concern is that since they share a synergy with blade of woe, it is really difficult to get the right positioning to use feed, instead of the blade.


Overall, the vampire changes are a delight, fun animations that encourage me to feed, a fully fledged skill line that I both want to put to use actively and am capable of doing so with these additions.The ability cost is a pain point for many. While I would not be against such reductions, my concern is that if they get reduced too low, they end up being completely negated or ignored. And we have a similar problem that we do on live, stage 4 vampires making up quite a chunk of the player base because the detriments arent dire.

Qbiken

So I went to PTS to see how the new werewolf skills work and here are my thoughts on stuff that needs to be changed:

Carnage:
* The skill animation is like an incredibly slow claws of anguish and feels incredibly clunky to use. The skill needs to blend in better with light attack weaving on werewolf to make good use of. Make it have the same animation speed as claws of anguish and the animation of the skill is good.

* The 2nd pain point of this skill is the fact that if you´re chasing someone, lets say a magicka sorcerer in PvP, and they try to get away from you by streaking, you´ll only be able to use your pounce once and then you´re forced to wait 5 seconds before the carnage cooldown wears off before you can use it again. It defeats the purpose of a gapcloser if you put a cooldown on it, making it impossible to catch mobile targets.

Solution: Make pounce/carnage work differently depending on how close you´re to your enemy. If you´re within melee range of the target, carnage will be applied, but if the target is out of range (aka when a gapcloser is usefull) the gapcloser version, eg pounce, will be used.

Hircine´s Bounty (and morphs)
This skill needs to get the 100% HP requirement changed. I wrote earlier in the thread about this and I can´t stress enough how useless this ability will be if you only get the bonus effects if you heal while at full health. In any realistic combat situation, you´ll never be at 100% HP, hence you´ll never make good use of the major berserk buff or the extra regeneration from Hircine´s Fortitude. Using a heal while at full health, regardless of bonus effects (and with the werewolf heal being incredibly costly) defeats the purpose of a heal, kinda.

Solution (either one will work):
* Lower the threshold so that you get the "bonus effects" whenever you use your heal when between 80-100% HP.
* Make it so whenever you overheal (aka when you reach 100% HP or "higher") you activate the bonus effects.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

brennz

Vampire
If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
As far as I can tell, yes.

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
On an already existing character, so I have not done this yet.

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Fun? Sorta. It doesn't really make sense. How can the skills be criminal activities that get you in trouble, but the vendors can tell you are a vampire without using them and you don't get in trouble? Also, I did NOT find the vendor "trick" intuitive in the slightest. It also doesn't work when Prevent Attacking Innocents is turned on.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
More than before, yes.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
More than before, yes. Completely? No. Mine is on a necromancer, and I feel like the necromancer skills are much more polished and thematically fitting. I understand this is still WIP, though. I do feel like the Eviscerate skill line should hide the weapon in that hand. It does not look good while holding a staff.

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
No. It's borderline unusable. I am a magcro DPS and am horrifically weak. Skills scale off magicka, and magicka toons are otherwise set up in this game to be weakest in the health department (light armor). Buffing your health means the skills are weaker. It doesn't make sense. IMO these skills should all scale off health and do Blood Damage or something. As is, my character is weaker than a newborn. I can't use either my necro or my vamp skills well.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
More than before, yes.

How does feeding feel overall?
Animations are MUCH improved. However, triggering it is super finicky and the animation that still does bloodsucking from a distance does not have a good POV in my opinion. You can barely see what's going on. Too close to the toon and the ground.

I also can't feed on Bahzdal in Rimmen. Senche are people, too!

Do you have any other general feedback?
The ultimate kinda sucks. 20 seconds is pathetic, and the movement speed meant I literally changed, took 5 steps, and changed back. Awful. Can we please have a way to stay in form like werewolves do?

I like the look (and prefer it without wings), but wish beast races looked a little like their race.

Also, please do something about how vampires look. PLEASE.

Overall the entire experience is unintuitive and difficult. I am 450cp and I don't feel like I know enough about this game to successfully play a vampire. I don't think that's a good sign at all.

SGT_Courtney

Kinetiks wrote: »

Minor Courage is not applied on the stat sheet?

I have noticed that too. I don’t think the buff is being applied properly to Pack Leader morph.

Noxavian

brennz wrote: »

Vampire
If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
As far as I can tell, yes.

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
On an already existing character, so I have not done this yet.

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Fun? Sorta. It doesn't really make sense. How can the skills be criminal activities that get you in trouble, but the vendors can tell you are a vampire without using them and you don't get in trouble? Also, I did NOT find the vendor "trick" intuitive in the slightest. It also doesn't work when Prevent Attacking Innocents is turned on.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
More than before, yes.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
More than before, yes. Completely? No. Mine is on a necromancer, and I feel like the necromancer skills are much more polished and thematically fitting. I understand this is still WIP, though. I do feel like the Eviscerate skill line should hide the weapon in that hand. It does not look good while holding a staff.

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
No. It's borderline unusable. I am a magcro DPS and am horrifically weak. Skills scale off magicka, and magicka toons are otherwise set up in this game to be weakest in the health department (light armor). Buffing your health means the skills are weaker. It doesn't make sense. IMO these skills should all scale off health and do Blood Damage or something. As is, my character is weaker than a newborn. I can't use either my necro or my vamp skills well.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
More than before, yes.

How does feeding feel overall?
Animations are MUCH improved. However, triggering it is super finicky and the animation that still does bloodsucking from a distance does not have a good POV in my opinion. You can barely see what's going on. Too close to the toon and the ground.

I also can't feed on Bahzdal in Rimmen. Senche are people, too!

Do you have any other general feedback?
The ultimate kinda sucks. 20 seconds is pathetic, and the movement speed meant I literally changed, took 5 steps, and changed back. Awful. Can we please have a way to stay in form like werewolves do?

I like the look (and prefer it without wings), but wish beast races looked a little like their race.

Also, please do something about how vampires look. PLEASE.

Overall the entire experience is unintuitive and difficult. I am 450cp and I don't feel like I know enough about this game to successfully play a vampire. I don't think that's a good sign at all.

Could you agree that at least the *option* to have wings would be beneficial? Like if Perfect Scion remained like the base form and didn't give wings, yet Swarming Scion gave wings? That way both people that like the wings and that dislike the wings can be happy?

ungama

Hello, I took a look at the vampire.

So far I think the vampire is really crap. If I try to do damage to him, my life and my life regeneration are in the way, and then there is the fact that my costs for normal skills are so high that it makes no sense at all, apart from when you use the Ulti Plays.
In my opinion this skill line is really useless in the PVE and in the PVP it is a total suicide style of play. No class really benefits from this skill line, you have a lot more negatives than positive effects, that would be something like when I say "I go to a casino because I like to lose my money".
Playing the skills on the doll was not particularly pleasant, I just watched my life fall and my Magicka too, the experience of the game was more uncomfortable than exciting.

Conclusion: If it comes out as it can be tested now, then most will probably not play it. : /

Noxavian

Please pass on the feedback @ZOS_GinaBruno, a lot of people are unhappy with how the vampire lord form looks and functions. For most it is the lack of the vampire-lord style wings or wings in general. For others it is the function-part of the skill and how it operates basically almost identical to Bone Goliath.

I heard on Youtube that the no-wings version of Swarming Scion was just for PTS and that it'll get updated later. Is this true or false?

HackTheMinotaur

@ZOS_GinaBruno I noticed several bugs with the new werewolf skills in my testing this week. Whoever is looking at this section of the game may benefit from the video footage:

https://youtu.be/wvzk8x96iXc

TLDR
-Minor Courage does not appear when using Pack Leader
-Werewolf Berserker: typo in skill description
-Hircine's Rage: no debuff appears to show I am taking extra damage
-Howl Of Agony: bonus damage does not work on boss targets, even if they are facing you

brennz

Noxavian wrote: »

Could you agree that at least the *option* to have wings would be beneficial? Like if Perfect Scion remained like the base form and didn't give wings, yet Swarming Scion gave wings? That way both people that like the wings and that dislike the wings can be happy?

It is just my personal opinion that the wings always looked like crap. I hated them in Skyrim and I'm personally glad they took them off here. This is entirely subjective, though, and I do not think my opinion is more important than anyone else's. Just wanted it voiced that not everyone likes chicken wings on their kick butt vampire lord

xryanvb16_ESO

Vampire:

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Yes

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
yes

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Not really, there isn't much too it just sometime guards will fight you, needs more depth to the gameplay.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
Not really, I like that you actually have a reason to feed now however no one is going to want to be vampire level 4 since the negatives out weight the benefits.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
It's not great, while the skills are interesting the negatives in using them out weigh the advantages for most characters. Spending health to use abilities is not a very good mechanic for a game where survival is so important. Having to put yourself at low health for a dmg increase is not viable for group PVE content or much of anything given that healers are always looking to top low health players up.

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
I tried it on stamina night blade and it's completely useless in every possible way. I also tried on a mag templar and while Blood Frenzy and Evicerate might be of some benefit in solo situations where you can actually keep your HP low. They would not offer enough benefit to replace any class or weapon abilities the current build is already using. They are especially difficult to fit into a build given that THEY KILL YOU WHEN YOU USE THEM.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
I guess.

How does feeding feel overall?
Feeding is better then it was but who would want to feed when it makes your character weaker the more vampire levels you get.

skypantherb14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Vampire and Werewolf changes. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Vampire
  • 1) If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
  • 2) Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
  • 3) Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
  • 4) Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
  • 5) Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
  • 6 ) Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
  • 7) Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
  • 8) How does feeding feel overall?

1) Looks like it, yes...
2) I used a copied character, did not go through the quest.
3) It makes sense game wise, yes. I already play a Necromancer so keeping track of what spells I cast in public is already being done.

4) Maybe? I think this depends on what is meant by "reinforced". It depends on which route you are going for.

If you are looking to make Vampires their own RP-DPS Sub-Class then maybe the game does reinforce keeping your character at level 4 Vampire, and feeding, etc. If you plan on mainly using the Vampire powers. Though going pure DPS from a your class line would do more damage in groups... this would just be an RP sub-class...

If you bump up the damage on these skills, and maybe make Eviscerate a cone/AE ability instead of single target, that could be a nice DPS spec that people will play.

However if you want people to Mix and play with Vampire + some other role, then it reinforces the status quo, just without the passives. People will not Feed and maintain their level at 1. This is due to the Cost of normal abilities being too high at level 4, and not having any synergistic spells/abilities that do not make the character weaker than it was before.

There have been suggestions of doing 0%/5/10%/15% Extra cost for baseline abilities... I think that would make sense, but still make the whole thing counterintuitive to reinforcing Vampires without it being a RP/niche template.

Doing the reverse could make sense... (at Vampire level 1) 25%/15%/10%/0% increased ability cost (at level 4) (Minus 5% at Vampire level 5 with the Ultimate) That would reinforce people to Feed and play with the Vampire dynamics, including NPC's not liking you (at level 4)

The opposite seems to discourage people from playing Vampire + Their Chosen Class Role. As a healer I could drink and go to level 1, with the current 5% Cost (which could be mitigated)... but what incentive do I have to go back to level 4?

5) On its own, as a sub-class it feels a bit underwhelming... as an "addition" to a class or role, it feels like a burden more than a boon... more of a curse than a balance between a blessing and a curse. I like the new spell icons however, and the visuals seem to fit, etc.

6) No, it does not fit... I play as a Necromancer Healer, there is no reason for me to Feed to keep this up at Vampire level 4.

7) Depends on the lore? In some ways, yes, in some ways no. A player should feel more powerful at Vampire Level 4, not crippled in their own toolkit, and underwhelming as a DPS spec (if you have all 6 Vampire abilities slotted, as compared to a different DPS spec on a Necromancer)

8) I like the new animations, but the incentive to actually use it as a Healer/DPS spec is not there.


General Feedback/Recommendations...

It depends on which route you are going... if you want to make Vampire its own DPS class:

Increase the overall damage on the 6 abilities, and make Eviscerate a cone/AE ability. That way it can stand on its own as a Vampire themed sub-class.

If you want this to be a general template that other roles use:

Add synergistic abilities for Healers, DPS, Tanks, etc... lesson (or reverse) the ability cost at level 4. (at Vampire level 1 : 25%/15%/10%/0% increased ability cost (at level 4) and Minus 5% at Vampire level 5 with the Ultimate)

If you are making the changes just so less people play Vampires that seems to be a decision made in a meeting that sounds good in a meeting, but bad when put into practice... people play games to have fun...

Vampires (and their Lore) are liked by people so they play them because they find them, and their theme fun... don't make them less fun because a lot of people like them... seems like a strange thing to do for a game company...Cutting off the nose to spite the face...

Daviiid_ESO

The increased ability cost is way too high. Should be 6-8% MAX on stage 4.

20% is absolutely ridiculous.

Thevampirenight

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

It's very obvious from the tutorial that NPC vampires have still got the old style of vampirism, drinking blood to reduce their vampirism stage. This makes the new content seem very incoherent. Good-guy NPC's must drink blood to maintain control of their condition while good-guy PC's must abstain. This especially grates when interacting with "friendly" vampires like House Ravenwatch. For existing vampire player characters there seems to be no explanation given why they are suddenly different from every other vampire on Tamriel.

I also feel my vampire characters are now being forced to remain at stage 1 in order to maintain their good guy status, which definitely seems more of a curse than a kiss now. It's like the game is automatically gimping these characters for me because I want do some RP.

They do explain it somewhat in the Vampire Quest after finishing it and talking to Lamae you can ask her questions and she answers them.

Basically She wasn't pleased that Vampires were holding back on feeding hesitating only feeding once in a while like Great Serpents. She altered the Blood Scions using sorcery, and accursed rite. A New Breed of vampire basically.
Instead of the way it works the blood scion is a bottemless vessel a child of hunger and Delight. Drinking deeply from the World and you shall be rewarded.
Basically she altered and created a new form of vampire and the Blood Scion Form the vampire lord variant form is her own creation as well. She did that because Molag Bal granted that strength to other vampires and she wasn't having it with her children not having the same ability and in the player they will see the form perfected.

So basically the Blood Scion Bloodline is a heavily modified version of her bloodline a new form of vampirism that was altered heavily and one that Lamae Made her Own. The Blood Scion form isn't connected to Molag bal but inspired by the forms that Molag Bal grants to a handful of his Children. So The Volkihar are not the only ones that have the form but others like the Greyhost might have the Vampire Lord Ability granted from Molag Bal. But we don't get it from Molag Bal as our ability in the game comes from Lamae herself.