PTS Update 26 - Feedback Thread for Vampire & Werewolf

Alexium

Probably damage bonus that adding after exit from the sneak or cloud should apply and to first strike that removing sneak or cloud.

Qbiken

Thanks for completely ignoring all feedback regarding the werewolf changes for the entire PTS cycle. The end result is that we know have a gapcloser (pounce) which you only can use once every 5 seconds, due to the newly added mechanic of carnage.

How is a werewolf supposed to keep up with literally any target in PvP that has even the slightest of mobility? It´s never going to happen. A stam- or magsorc is more or less immune to a werewolf with one streak. You´ve completely removed the only (offensive) mobility werewolf had. What other gapcloser in game can only be activate once every 5 seconds? It´s a huge handicap for werewolf that NEEDS to be changed before this patch goes live.

It was stated that this patch would contain QoL changes for werewolfs, but this change alone handicaps them to such a degree that they once again, are questionable to choose for PvP. For once, listen to the feedback in your own threads. Why even bother making a feedback thread on the official forums if you´re just going to ignore it 100%? Why has werewolf been completely ignored through the entire PTS cycle while vampire has received numerous changes back and forth???

Chrlynsch

Hope this finds the eyes it needs to.

Werewolf:

Pounce: Unfortunately the changes to pounce and morphs will make if nearly impossible to chase down mobile targets.

If you pounce to a target that is moving at high speeds you will be locked out of a follow up pounce until carnage times out (as they will already be out of range of the carnage). This is a step in the wrong direction.

There are 2 fixes:

1. Make pounce and carnage work on range. Aka target within 0m-7m use carnage, target 7m-22m use pounce.

2. Feral pounce is shadowed by Brutal pounce, make feral pounce automatically apply carnage.

Elvenheart

A question about the revamped skill overview video...at 2:03, the vampire drops down out of the sky next to the enemies. The entire video only seemed to show things player characters can do, except for that. Or is that some kind of gap closer jump skill I don’t know about? 🙂

TheBinarySurfer

Qbiken wrote: »

Thanks for completely ignoring all feedback regarding the werewolf changes for the entire PTS cycle. The end result is that we know have a gapcloser (pounce) which you only can use once every 5 seconds, due to the newly added mechanic of carnage.

How is a werewolf supposed to keep up with literally any target in PvP that has even the slightest of mobility? It´s never going to happen. A stam- or magsorc is more or less immune to a werewolf with one streak. You´ve completely removed the only (offensive) mobility werewolf had. What other gapcloser in game can only be activate once every 5 seconds? It´s a huge handicap for werewolf that NEEDS to be changed before this patch goes live.

It was stated that this patch would contain QoL changes for werewolfs, but this change alone handicaps them to such a degree that they once again, are questionable to choose for PvP. For once, listen to the feedback in your own threads. Why even bother making a feedback thread on the official forums if you´re just going to ignore it 100%? Why has werewolf been completely ignored through the entire PTS cycle while vampire has received numerous changes back and forth???

This; i've given up and dropped my ESO+ and stopped playing, they clearly don't get it, won't get it, or at best aren't interested in making WW's viable in PvP again (the reason I came back in the first place when I heard WWs were getting some buffs).

No sustain improvements, despite acknowledging sustain as a key issue.
A gap closer you are locked out of (literally not the case on any other class).
No survivability improvements.
No healing improvements e.g. a small buff to claws of life/heal cost reduction.
No 'toggle mode' for WWs.
No reduction in cost of WW form.
No buff to WW sets.
No change to the 'build for WW your normal form is very weak' or 'build for normal form, your WW is very weak' issue.

Guess i'll check back in a future patch, but given that this was *the* werewolf and vampire patch, i'm not hopeful, best case scenario might be they remove the 'lockout' on the gap closer.

Darkness734

I see a lot of people mad about carnage and now that I think about it the gap closer is an issue. A simple fix would be to override claws of life rather than pounce. Both are used for dots so it makes sense.

TheBinarySurfer

A final thought; between this and the lag/desync issues, I don't see why anyone wanting to play WW

Darkness734 wrote: »

I see a lot of people mad about carnage and now that I think about it the gap closer is an issue. A simple fix would be to override claws of life rather than pounce. Both are used for dots so it makes sense.

An even better fix would be to have it so that the remaining dot damage is (partly) dealt as a DD or as a HoT to you.

None of that fixes the pitiful self-healing WW's have though; sure the heal is strong but 2 uses = almost dry on mana.

Hell I tried a high-regen, reduced cost build on mine and could still only get 4 heals off before i was 100% dry (and my damage/survivability was godawful; low health / no stamina etc.)

The WW shouldn't have it all; but it would be nice to be good at *something* without giving up absolutely everything else.

-Warden; great DPS, sustain, mobility, utility.
-Necro; high utility, great dps, decent sustain, poor mobility.
-DK; incredible burst, ok sustain, high utility, 'ok' mobility.
-NB; great burst, good sustain, high mobility/escape.

I could go on, but you get the idea; no other 'class' has to build 100% around something to be good at it, and does not suffer in everything else even when it does (a 'glass cannon' warden still keeps the utilty/mobility etc.).

Vevvev

I know this has been said before but Eviscerate's attack animation honestly is pretty silly. It has you swiping people with your hands while your weapon is still in them. I decided to take pictures of Materialize on the Live server to give you an idea of how to fix this problem.

While the gap closer part of it has you teleporting to the target and materializing in front of them, as you can see the attack animation does not have you using the weapon at all. It has you using blood magic from your hands, and it honestly makes more sense for a vampire than a blood magic "claw" swipe.

XomRhoK

Not a feedback, but another point of view on vampire skills, mechanics and stages of vampirism. Discussion at this thread. Hope someone will find it helpful.

Long post:

Hello!
Soon Greymoor chapter will be released and PTS cycle goes to its end, we already saw direction of vampire changes and i don’t like them in terms of skills and visual effects. So i wrote my point of view on all aspects of vampirism, inspired by all feedback on this forum. This changes are more of an overhaul of vampire skills, mechanics and stages of vampirism, more for my fun and with sliver hope, that this can be implemented as another vampire blood line in 4th quater DLC. It will be a long read, but it's structured and with pictures Hope you will like it, and if so, then click "agree" or "awesome", spread the word and summon ZOS devs in this thread.
Enjoy reading!

Overview
This version of vampirism allows to play with minor usage of vampire skills and feed once every 4 hours or play with full kit of thematic vampire skills (AoE, DoT, gap closer, dash) with active feeding in combat, in which vampire skills will help you to get behind the enemy. Stages of vampirism are not linear increased in strength, but shifted from magically powerful fully sated vampires with more human appearance and bodies full of blood to feral and physically powerful hungry vampires with more undeath appearance and bodies, the last 4th stage is starved vampires, alive, but weak, which encourages players to feed. One morph of the ultimate allows to transform in a different form, other morph allows to remain in regular vampire appearance but with increased power. Skills and passive, in my opinion, will suit all classes and roles(tank, healer, DD), magicka or stamina. All numbers can be tweaked and balanced, the main purpose is to give unique, thematic playstyle and feel for vampires.

Stages of vampirism

Stage 1: Vampires at this stage are fully sated, have more human appearance and bodies full of blood. At this stage their magical powers are at full potential.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +10%
- Health recovery -25%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -10%
Strengths:
- Spell damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while channeling
- Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

Stage 2: At this stage vampires start to lose their humanity and part of magical bonuses, their appearance and body become more undeath, but more physically stronger.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +20%
- Health recovery -50%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -20%
Strengths:
- Spell and weapon damage increased by 150 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while channeling
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 15% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:

- Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

Stage 3: Vampires at this stage are hungry, they lose their magical bonuses, appearance and body become more undeath, but hunger make them feral, their hunting instincts are growing, they gain more physical power and speed.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +30%
- Health recovery -80%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -30%
Strengths:
- Weapon damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
- Increase your movement speed by 10%
- Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:

- No speed penalty while channeling

Stage 4: Vampires at this stage are starved, their appearance and body become more undeath, all their magical and physical bonuses are outweighed by weak state of this stage, except their unstoppable hunger and ability to sense their preys.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +40%
- Health recovery -100%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -40%
Strengths:
- None
Passives:
- Detect creatures. Can sense(see) sneaking, invisible creatures and creatures behind obstacles. (Maybe except creatures without blood: dwarven automatons, skeletons etc. Not very big radius, to prevent abusing in PvP, checking number of enemies in keeps)
- Can't be interrupted while Feeding or using Vampire Drain
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:

- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
- Increase your movement speed by 10%
- Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak

Table for stages of vampirism, for easier comparison.

Health recovery weakness can be lower in shadows and inside buildings, for example by 20%, for additional roleplay element and vampiric gameplay. Don't know if this possible to achieve at ESO engine and at what cost.
Regarding appearance. There always will be players with different preferences of which vampire stage they want to play and how their vampire must look, more human or more undeath. The only good option, in my opinion, is to release more appropriate skins and polymorphs for vampires, human-like, undeath-like, with bat faces, as some vampires in Volkihar clan and so on. There is no point in strict restrictions, because if you want to hide your vampiric appearance you already can, by using skin or closed helmet.

Feeding
Feeding out of combat.
If you feed on NPC out of combat and from behind you will kill him, as it will be on Live servers, but with longer bite animation, to emphasize that you dried him for the last drop. Player can choose not to kill NPC, you can use Mesmorize skill on NPC and this will allows you to feed on him in front, with shorter bite animation and keep him alive, it will also help in small rooms with small space behind NPC. If you kill NPC by drying him out you will restore all Health, if you keep him alive you will restore some portion of Health. Player also can feed on another player, but it will not kill him, it will start fight and activate Feeding in combat mechanics.

Feeding in combat
This is crucial mechanics, which will add a lot of fun and vampiric feel to the combat, in my opinion. While in combat, you also can feed, to do so enemy must be stunned or player must be behind enemy(at melee range, no need to sneak). If at least one of the conditions fulfilled player can press "X" button and feed, animation must be very fast and precise, for example, vampire turn into the mist and instantly is behind enemy already in appropriate pose to execute the bite, all animations no longer than one second. To prevent collisions with animations of another player who can use Break Free or Dodge Roll both players, vampire and victim, can become stunned and invulnerable(covered with cloud of mist or bats) for that one second, this also will prevent setting up of burst combos, or killing victim by another players while he get bitten.

Skills

New crucial mechanics of vampire gameplay. Vampires will have Satiety bar under Magicka bar, similar to werewolves. This bar will be divided at four parts, four stages.
Satiety will be slowly drained and will deplete one stage at 4 hours, but usage of vampire skills will deplete Satiety bar much faster, around 10-20 skills per stage. You can replenish Satiety for a little amount by using Vampire Drain skill, but this skill can't lower vampire stage. To lower vampire stage and replenish bar for one full stage you must bite enemy in combat, feed outside of combat or use Bloody Mara(to prevent abusing of Bloody Maras it could have 3-5 minutes timer).

*) Bite. Don't need to be slotted, ability out of skill line. While in combat, if enemy is stunned or you are behind him in melee range you can Bite him, dealing X damage and heal for Y health, scales from highest stat or have fixed values, maybe in percentages. Also lowers stage of vampirism by one and replenish Satiety bar by full stage.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Clarification: Core and very thematic element of gameplay. Allows you to heal and fuel the use of vampire skills. Animation must be fast, around 1 second.

1) First morph: Poison Talons. Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with melee attacks with the talons, each attack with talons stacks Corpse Poison, after 5 stacks slows enemy by 90% for 1 second. This slow can help you get behind enemy for Bite. Cost Stamina to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Physical damage, restore Stamina on Heavy attacks. Attacks looks like those Bloodfiend NPC have, Heavy attack looks like series of 3-4 attacks.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Second morph: Concentrated blood Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with ranged magical Light and Heavy attacks, each attack restore Health a little and increase Healing done by 1% for 8 seconds, maximum 8 stacks. Cost Magicka to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Magical damage, restore Magicka on Heavy attacks. Heavy attack is AoE, with a short charging time.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Additional features while in Transformed form: No cost to toggle on and don't decreases Satiety on each attack.

Clarification: Thematic vampire attacks. Replaces regular LA and HA, because of that weapon enchantments stop working while this skill is toggle on, but your LA and HA gets another properties: powerful slow or increased Healing done. Also with this toggle you can choose what type of recources you want to restore on HA, you can restore Stamina with your sword and Magicka with this toggle. At the moment of the attack, weapon disappears from the player’s hands, similar to psijic Mend Wounds skill. If you prefer vampire aesthetic in spammable attacks you can go HA build and attack primarily with claws and red magic spheres, while keeping the opportunity to use regular spammable skills.

2) First morph: Bat Swarm Dash. Dash, no target needed. Turns into swarm of bats and fly forward dealing X Magical damage to all enemies in the way, small group of bats stick to each enemy, continues to distract them and deal additional Y Magical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and apply Minor Maim. Range 15 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Looks more like Vampire NPCs dash with some magic ball inside of swarm, but bats must stick to the central ball all the way.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Second morph: Hunger Swarm. Gap closer, needs target. Turns into swarm of bats and fly to the enemy dealing X Physical damage to all enemies in the way and heal you for part of the damage done, small group of bats stick to each enemy, keep dealing additional Y Physical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and heal you for part of the damage done. You materialize behind the enemy, for easier Bite. Range 22 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Visuals without magical element.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Additional features while in Transformed form: Swarm of the bats constantly fly around player in a small radius and deal damage to nearby enemies. Damage type and additional properties depends on morph of appropriate skill.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Clarification: Canonic vampire power, have Magicka and Stamina morphs. Can be used as dash or gap closer or as a DoT ability.

3) First morph: Vampiric Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy dealing X Magic damage, healing you for Y Health and generating 5 Ultimate every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. Visuals looks like the flow of blood. Old Invigorating Drain skill had very good visuals and sound, perhaps, flow could be a little wider.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Second morph: Relentless Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy decreasing his Health for X% of his maximum Health and healing you for Y% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, have damage cap, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. This morph also looks like the flow of blood, difference in visuals can be achieved by slightly different color, speed of flow, particles near hand.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Additional features while in Transformed form: Can lower stage of vampirism, additionally restores small portions of Magicka and Stamina

Clarification: Important spell in vampire kit. This ability allows you to deal average damage, restore Health and Satiety. Its range increases to 22 meters on the first stage of vampirism due to passive skill. It can't lower stage of vampirism, so if you use vampire skills a lot and don't use Bite for some reason, you must use Vampiric Drain more often to fuel your vampiric power.

4) Unmorphed: Mesmerize. Stun. Mesmerizes target for 4 seconds by putting hypnotic effect around his head. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

First morph: Nightmare. Stun. Creates a hypnotic effect around the head of the enemy, fearing him for 4 seonds. The enemy begins to see nightmare visions, which afflicting him with Minor Vulnerability and dealing X Magic damage each 1 second for 10 seconds. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Second morph: Dizziness. Stun. Quickly turns the opponent with his back to himself by putting hypnotic effect around his head, stuns him for 4 seconds and set Off Balance. This make him easy target to Bite. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Additional features while in Transformed form: Increases range to 22 meters. Pulls an enemy to you, deals X Physical damage, based on your highest offensive stat and and after use on of the skill morphs. Works similar to Fiery Grip skills. Overall animation and visuals similar to Vampiric Grip from TES: Skyrim.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Clarification: When used against peaceful NPCs always works unmorphed Mesmerize skill.

5) First morph: Poison mist. Invisability + Mist form + Ground AoE DoT ability. Dissolve into a mist form for 4 seconds and create cloud of poison mist around you in a large area which deals X Poison damage to all enemies in the area every 1 second for 10 seconds. Entering this form grants you invisibility, Major Expedition, reducing your damage taken by 75%, removes and grants immunity to all disabling and immobilization effects, but you cannot be healed. If you leave area of the mist cloud you will become visible. Invisibility and increased movement speed allows you to avoid damage and get behind enemy to Bite him. Radius 8 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

First morph: Blood mist. Ranged ground AoE ability. Launch mist projectile on the groud to the targeted location which deals damage to all enemies in the way for X Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. When projectile hit targeted location it creates cloud of blood mist which deals damage to all enemies in the area for Y Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. While you stays inside the mist heal from this ability is doubled. Range 22 meters, radius 6 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Heal from the mist cloud looks like small parts of the Blood mist returns to the player.
Direction of visual effects(gif):

Additional features while in Transformed form: While you stays inside the mist damage of this ability is doubled.

Clarification: Melee and ranged options for ground AoE. First morph looks like you instantly disappear in the mist cloud and can be used to avoid, mitigate damage or get behind enemy to Bite him.

6) Ultimate. First morph: Transformed form. Transforms into more powerful form. All vampire skills receive additional features (described above). In this form you attack with your claws and can't use weapon skills, but can alter your Light and Heavy attacks to ranged by Concentrated blood toggle skill. After the first 15 seconds in this form, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. Transformed form, first of all, looks like vampire, without horns, not very tall, have more predator stance, movements agile, have sharp claws. Not very important with or without wing stumps if the final look is good.
Direction of visual effects(jpg):

Ultimate. First morph: Ancient blood. While use this ability you combine strengths of all stages of vampirism and keep the minimum weaknesses of stage 1(see the table above). This ultimate keeps your regular appearance, you can use all skills. After the first 15 seconds of using this ultimate, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. To highlight that the player activated this Ultimate visual effects should be added to his model. Not very bright, maybe some smoke or mist coming from the surface of the body and falls to the ground, when player moves, mist can leave a small trail.
Direction of visual effects(jpg):

Clarification: Both morphs can be tweaked, more buffs can be added according to balance. In fact, both ultimate morphs can be without transformation, if there will be enough options to customise your vampire character with appropriate skins and polymorphs.

Thank you for reading!

Vevvev

XomRhoK wrote: »

Not a feedback, but another point of view on vampire skills, mechanics and stages of vampirism. Discussion at this thread. Hope someone will find it helpful.

Long post:

Hello!
Soon Greymoor chapter will be released and PTS cycle goes to its end, we already saw direction of vampire changes and i don’t like them in terms of skills and visual effects. So i wrote my point of view on all aspects of vampirism, inspired by all feedback on this forum. This changes are more of an overhaul of vampire skills, mechanics and stages of vampirism, more for my fun and with sliver hope, that this can be implemented as another vampire blood line in 4th quater DLC. It will be a long read, but it's structured and with pictures Hope you will like it, and if so, then click "agree" or "awesome", spread the word and summon ZOS devs in this thread.
Enjoy reading!

Overview
This version of vampirism allows to play with minor usage of vampire skills and feed once every 4 hours or play with full kit of thematic vampire skills (AoE, DoT, gap closer, dash) with active feeding in combat, in which vampire skills will help you to get behind the enemy. Stages of vampirism are not linear increased in strength, but shifted from magically powerful fully sated vampires with more human appearance and bodies full of blood to feral and physically powerful hungry vampires with more undeath appearance and bodies, the last 4th stage is starved vampires, alive, but weak, which encourages players to feed. One morph of the ultimate allows to transform in a different form, other morph allows to remain in regular vampire appearance but with increased power. Skills and passive, in my opinion, will suit all classes and roles(tank, healer, DD), magicka or stamina. All numbers can be tweaked and balanced, the main purpose is to give unique, thematic playstyle and feel for vampires.

Stages of vampirism

Stage 1: Vampires at this stage are fully sated, have more human appearance and bodies full of blood. At this stage their magical powers are at full potential.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +10%
- Health recovery -25%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -10%
Strengths:
- Spell damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while channeling
- Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

Stage 2: At this stage vampires start to lose their humanity and part of magical bonuses, their appearance and body become more undeath, but more physically stronger.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +20%
- Health recovery -50%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -20%
Strengths:
- Spell and weapon damage increased by 150 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while channeling
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 15% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:

- Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

Stage 3: Vampires at this stage are hungry, they lose their magical bonuses, appearance and body become more undeath, but hunger make them feral, their hunting instincts are growing, they gain more physical power and speed.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +30%
- Health recovery -80%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -30%
Strengths:
- Weapon damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
- Increase your movement speed by 10%
- Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:

- No speed penalty while channeling

Stage 4: Vampires at this stage are starved, their appearance and body become more undeath, all their magical and physical bonuses are outweighed by weak state of this stage, except their unstoppable hunger and ability to sense their preys.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +40%
- Health recovery -100%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -40%
Strengths:
- None
Passives:
- Detect creatures. Can sense(see) sneaking, invisible creatures and creatures behind obstacles. (Maybe except creatures without blood: dwarven automatons, skeletons etc. Not very big radius, to prevent abusing in PvP, checking number of enemies in keeps)
- Can't be interrupted while Feeding or using Vampire Drain
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:

- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
- Increase your movement speed by 10%
- Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak

Table for stages of vampirism, for easier comparison.

Health recovery weakness can be lower in shadows and inside buildings, for example by 20%, for additional roleplay element and vampiric gameplay. Don't know if this possible to achieve at ESO engine and at what cost.
Regarding appearance. There always will be players with different preferences of which vampire stage they want to play and how their vampire must look, more human or more undeath. The only good option, in my opinion, is to release more appropriate skins and polymorphs for vampires, human-like, undeath-like, with bat faces, as some vampires in Volkihar clan and so on. There is no point in strict restrictions, because if you want to hide your vampiric appearance you already can, by using skin or closed helmet.

Feeding
Feeding out of combat.
If you feed on NPC out of combat and from behind you will kill him, as it will be on Live servers, but with longer bite animation, to emphasize that you dried him for the last drop. Player can choose not to kill NPC, you can use Mesmorize skill on NPC and this will allows you to feed on him in front, with shorter bite animation and keep him alive, it will also help in small rooms with small space behind NPC. If you kill NPC by drying him out you will restore all Health, if you keep him alive you will restore some portion of Health. Player also can feed on another player, but it will not kill him, it will start fight and activate Feeding in combat mechanics.

Feeding in combat
This is crucial mechanics, which will add a lot of fun and vampiric feel to the combat, in my opinion. While in combat, you also can feed, to do so enemy must be stunned or player must be behind enemy(at melee range, no need to sneak). If at least one of the conditions fulfilled player can press "X" button and feed, animation must be very fast and precise, for example, vampire turn into the mist and instantly is behind enemy already in appropriate pose to execute the bite, all animations no longer than one second. To prevent collisions with animations of another player who can use Break Free or Dodge Roll both players, vampire and victim, can become stunned and invulnerable(covered with cloud of mist or bats) for that one second, this also will prevent setting up of burst combos, or killing victim by another players while he get bitten.

Skills

New crucial mechanics of vampire gameplay. Vampires will have Satiety bar under Magicka bar, similar to werewolves. This bar will be divided at four parts, four stages.
Satiety will be slowly drained and will deplete one stage at 4 hours, but usage of vampire skills will deplete Satiety bar much faster, around 10-20 skills per stage. You can replenish Satiety for a little amount by using Vampire Drain skill, but this skill can't lower vampire stage. To lower vampire stage and replenish bar for one full stage you must bite enemy in combat, feed outside of combat or use Bloody Mara(to prevent abusing of Bloody Maras it could have 3-5 minutes timer).

*) Bite. Don't need to be slotted, ability out of skill line. While in combat, if enemy is stunned or you are behind him in melee range you can Bite him, dealing X damage and heal for Y health, scales from highest stat or have fixed values, maybe in percentages. Also lowers stage of vampirism by one and replenish Satiety bar by full stage.
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Clarification: Core and very thematic element of gameplay. Allows you to heal and fuel the use of vampire skills. Animation must be fast, around 1 second.

1) First morph: Poison Talons. Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with melee attacks with the talons, each attack with talons stacks Corpse Poison, after 5 stacks slows enemy by 90% for 1 second. This slow can help you get behind enemy for Bite. Cost Stamina to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Physical damage, restore Stamina on Heavy attacks. Attacks looks like those Bloodfiend NPC have, Heavy attack looks like series of 3-4 attacks.
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Second morph: Concentrated blood Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with ranged magical Light and Heavy attacks, each attack restore Health a little and increase Healing done by 1% for 8 seconds, maximum 8 stacks. Cost Magicka to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Magical damage, restore Magicka on Heavy attacks. Heavy attack is AoE, with a short charging time.
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Additional features while in Transformed form: No cost to toggle on and don't decreases Satiety on each attack.

Clarification: Thematic vampire attacks. Replaces regular LA and HA, because of that weapon enchantments stop working while this skill is toggle on, but your LA and HA gets another properties: powerful slow or increased Healing done. Also with this toggle you can choose what type of recources you want to restore on HA, you can restore Stamina with your sword and Magicka with this toggle. At the moment of the attack, weapon disappears from the player’s hands, similar to psijic Mend Wounds skill. If you prefer vampire aesthetic in spammable attacks you can go HA build and attack primarily with claws and red magic spheres, while keeping the opportunity to use regular spammable skills.

2) First morph: Bat Swarm Dash. Dash, no target needed. Turns into swarm of bats and fly forward dealing X Magical damage to all enemies in the way, small group of bats stick to each enemy, continues to distract them and deal additional Y Magical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and apply Minor Maim. Range 15 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Looks more like Vampire NPCs dash with some magic ball inside of swarm, but bats must stick to the central ball all the way.
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Second morph: Hunger Swarm. Gap closer, needs target. Turns into swarm of bats and fly to the enemy dealing X Physical damage to all enemies in the way and heal you for part of the damage done, small group of bats stick to each enemy, keep dealing additional Y Physical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and heal you for part of the damage done. You materialize behind the enemy, for easier Bite. Range 22 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Visuals without magical element.
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Additional features while in Transformed form: Swarm of the bats constantly fly around player in a small radius and deal damage to nearby enemies. Damage type and additional properties depends on morph of appropriate skill.
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Clarification: Canonic vampire power, have Magicka and Stamina morphs. Can be used as dash or gap closer or as a DoT ability.

3) First morph: Vampiric Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy dealing X Magic damage, healing you for Y Health and generating 5 Ultimate every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. Visuals looks like the flow of blood. Old Invigorating Drain skill had very good visuals and sound, perhaps, flow could be a little wider.
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Second morph: Relentless Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy decreasing his Health for X% of his maximum Health and healing you for Y% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, have damage cap, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. This morph also looks like the flow of blood, difference in visuals can be achieved by slightly different color, speed of flow, particles near hand.
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Additional features while in Transformed form: Can lower stage of vampirism, additionally restores small portions of Magicka and Stamina

Clarification: Important spell in vampire kit. This ability allows you to deal average damage, restore Health and Satiety. Its range increases to 22 meters on the first stage of vampirism due to passive skill. It can't lower stage of vampirism, so if you use vampire skills a lot and don't use Bite for some reason, you must use Vampiric Drain more often to fuel your vampiric power.

4) Unmorphed: Mesmerize. Stun. Mesmerizes target for 4 seconds by putting hypnotic effect around his head. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
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First morph: Nightmare. Stun. Creates a hypnotic effect around the head of the enemy, fearing him for 4 seonds. The enemy begins to see nightmare visions, which afflicting him with Minor Vulnerability and dealing X Magic damage each 1 second for 10 seconds. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
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Second morph: Dizziness. Stun. Quickly turns the opponent with his back to himself by putting hypnotic effect around his head, stuns him for 4 seconds and set Off Balance. This make him easy target to Bite. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
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Additional features while in Transformed form: Increases range to 22 meters. Pulls an enemy to you, deals X Physical damage, based on your highest offensive stat and and after use on of the skill morphs. Works similar to Fiery Grip skills. Overall animation and visuals similar to Vampiric Grip from TES: Skyrim.
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Clarification: When used against peaceful NPCs always works unmorphed Mesmerize skill.

5) First morph: Poison mist. Invisability + Mist form + Ground AoE DoT ability. Dissolve into a mist form for 4 seconds and create cloud of poison mist around you in a large area which deals X Poison damage to all enemies in the area every 1 second for 10 seconds. Entering this form grants you invisibility, Major Expedition, reducing your damage taken by 75%, removes and grants immunity to all disabling and immobilization effects, but you cannot be healed. If you leave area of the mist cloud you will become visible. Invisibility and increased movement speed allows you to avoid damage and get behind enemy to Bite him. Radius 8 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
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First morph: Blood mist. Ranged ground AoE ability. Launch mist projectile on the groud to the targeted location which deals damage to all enemies in the way for X Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. When projectile hit targeted location it creates cloud of blood mist which deals damage to all enemies in the area for Y Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. While you stays inside the mist heal from this ability is doubled. Range 22 meters, radius 6 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Heal from the mist cloud looks like small parts of the Blood mist returns to the player.
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Additional features while in Transformed form: While you stays inside the mist damage of this ability is doubled.

Clarification: Melee and ranged options for ground AoE. First morph looks like you instantly disappear in the mist cloud and can be used to avoid, mitigate damage or get behind enemy to Bite him.

6) Ultimate. First morph: Transformed form. Transforms into more powerful form. All vampire skills receive additional features (described above). In this form you attack with your claws and can't use weapon skills, but can alter your Light and Heavy attacks to ranged by Concentrated blood toggle skill. After the first 15 seconds in this form, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. Transformed form, first of all, looks like vampire, without horns, not very tall, have more predator stance, movements agile, have sharp claws. Not very important with or without wing stumps if the final look is good.
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Ultimate. First morph: Ancient blood. While use this ability you combine strengths of all stages of vampirism and keep the minimum weaknesses of stage 1(see the table above). This ultimate keeps your regular appearance, you can use all skills. After the first 15 seconds of using this ultimate, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. To highlight that the player activated this Ultimate visual effects should be added to his model. Not very bright, maybe some smoke or mist coming from the surface of the body and falls to the ground, when player moves, mist can leave a small trail.
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Clarification: Both morphs can be tweaked, more buffs can be added according to balance. In fact, both ultimate morphs can be without transformation, if there will be enough options to customise your vampire character with appropriate skins and polymorphs.

Thank you for reading!

This is really, really, REALLY good. I'd have no complaints if something like this got implemented.

Fata1moose

I realize the much maligned vampire ultimate has been discussed quite a bit here but I think it's necessary to provide continued feedback on the ultimate's appearance. It's important to communicate why I'm disappointed in the ultimate and how it could be better approached. While I can't speak for the rest of the ESO community I hope my feedback has some common ideals on what the vampire scion should be. But before I get into the actual appearance itself I just want to say this is in no way a criticism on the quality of the model. I think the art team did a good job in terms of quality and this criticism doesn't exist to bash the hard work of talented developers. Instead, my disappointment in the vampire ultimate's appearance comes from expectations on what a Vampire Lord/Scion/beast would look like within the Elder Scrolls Universe based off previous games and lore. I also realize that these changes take time and wasn't expecting to see any changes with the launch of Greymoor even considering this discussion has been going on since community members previewed the game. To expect changes during the short duration of the PTS to the launch of Greymoor would be unreasonable given a normal development schedule but given the developers are forced to work from home due to COVID-19 it would be outright inconsiderate to expect anything that soon. I do wish there was some line of acknowledgement from ZOS on the feedback to the Scion specifically but I realize internal plans have to happen before that can happen. With that said here's what I think:

The community was set up with false expectations on what to expect from the Vampire ultimate. During the reveal stream of Greymoor we were told the ultimate would look similar to the collector's edition statue:

The only vampire beast shown in the press release sceenshots also looked closer to a Vampire Lord:

Then there's obviously the Vampire Lord from Skyrim to go off of for expectations on what a TES Vampire beast would look like. So when the community previews came out and the Vampire Scion was the huge, hulking beast with shadows surrounding the model the disappointment was already set up. Then there's lore to account for, vampires are magic based stealth creatures in Elder Scrolls while Werewolves are their stamina based counterparts. Magic and stealth aren't conveyed through the huge bulking model of the current vampire scion. The Scion looks like a stamina based beast even vampire skills such as eviscerate synergize with melee builds better than magicka. The shadowy effect that surrounds the scion feels obstructive to the actual model, while some effect during transformation would be fine the persistent shadow is a bit much and feels too much like the necromancer bone goliath. The scion weilding a weapon rather than using magic is also a bit of a disappointment but I don't really expect a rework there as that would require a new bar of skills for the Scion ultimate. What I would like to see is something more familiar to the Vampire lord, shorter than the scion, slimmer and without the shadowy effect. While wings would be nice it's not something that necessarily needed since they can't be used, but please no shadowy wings.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun

Fata1moose wrote: »

Then there's lore to account for, vampires are magic based stealth creatures in Elder Scrolls

I hate to sound like I'm defending the vampire rework but...not really? I remember my VL slapping people across the room and biting heads off mid-combat in Skyrim. Older TES games had vampirism increasing your speed, strength, acrobatics and hand-to-hand (on top of the magical boosts).

They were never these purely magical/stealthy beings.

Fata1moose

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

Fata1moose wrote: »

Then there's lore to account for, vampires are magic based stealth creatures in Elder Scrolls

I hate to sound like I'm defending the vampire rework but...not really? I remember my VL slapping people across the room and biting heads off mid-combat in Skyrim. Older TES games had vampirism increasing your speed, strength, acrobatics and hand-to-hand (on top of the magical boosts).

They were never these purely magical/stealthy beings.

sure lords could be brutal as well but Harkon stated that was a last resort kind of thing when you run out of magicka. 'get on the ground and fight as the beasts do' or something to that effect. Even in ESO the skills are pointed towards stealth with no speed penalty for sneaking, gaining cloak after running, etc. It's not that vampires are completely magic based and don't get their hands dirty but it should actually look like they can be stealthy if they so choose. The scion shouldn't be the size that they are now they're almost as big as a dwarven centurion.

RavemasterCrow

sure lords could be brutal as well but Harkon stated that was a last resort kind of thing when you run out of magicka. 'get on the ground and fight as the beasts do' or something to that effect. Even in ESO the skills are pointed towards stealth with no speed penalty for sneaking, gaining cloak after running, etc. It's not that vampires are completely magic based and don't get their hands dirty but it should actually look like they can be stealthy if they so choose. The scion shouldn't be the size that they are now they're almost as big as a dwarven centurion.

While that might be true for Vampire Lords in Skyrim - which were heavily focused on blood magic and "night powers".

That is not the case for literally every other version of Vampirism in TES' history. Outside of the one Magicka and the separate magicka vampire clans within Morrowind (With the 3rd being focused on full on battle and fighting), every other version of Vampirism has given you increases to a lot of different stats.

I've done a breakdown in other PTS threads, so I'll just yoink from there to copy beneath:

+20 to Strength, Willpower, and Speed stats. +20 to Blade, Blunt, Heavy Armor, Unarmored, Hand to Hand, Athletics, Acrobatics, Sneak, Destruction, Mysticism, and Illusion; Resistance of up to 50% against non-silvered weapons, and a 20%-50% increase in resistance to Frost.

And that's just the PASSIVES.

Then there were the active abilities - usually some form of calm/seduction to be able to freely feed on people without getting caught. Invisibility for 60-120s depending on game. Morrowind had a Vampirism Levitate/Fly power. There have been a couple of fear/silence abilities.

And that's just on surface level glances as well.

Fata1moose wrote: »

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun wrote: »

Fata1moose wrote: »

Then there's lore to account for, vampires are magic based stealth creatures in Elder Scrolls

Alexium

ZOS, please I beg you! Make that bats appearing only if enemies are near. I mean the Vampire ult morph with the bat swarm. I will post this suggestion in another forum category if it need.