PTS Update 26 - Feedback Thread for Vampire & Werewolf

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the Vampire and Werewolf changes. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Vampire
  • If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
  • Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
  • Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
  • Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
  • Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
  • Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
  • Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
  • How does feeding feel overall?
• Werewolf
  • Is your play pattern as a werewolf different with these changes?
  • Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Aliyavana

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
The vampire quest had a great overhaul to include Vampire Lord into the mix and explain why Lamae Bal's bloodline get stronger by feeding. Incase anyone is wondering what new dialogue is said to explain why we have access to vampire lord ult, i added Lamae Bal's new dialogue to her UESP page. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Lamae_Bal

The Werewolf tutorial could use a minor tweak like the vampire quest as its unfaithful to the lore. Theres a lore issue where the game refers to the werewolf tutorial as a Great Hunt from the scroll on the altar and the portal which states "portal to The Great Hunt", but there is a lack of a Bloodmoon which according to the lore is a major component of the Great Hunt. Please add a Bloodmoon to the werewolf tutorial zone which could be done if you replace the skybox of the tutorial zone with the red skybox with the Bloodmoon from March of Sacrifices. Also, please capitalize the words great hunt.

reference https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Great_Hunt

(Great Hunt should be capitalized)

Noxavian

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Vampire and Werewolf changes. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Vampire
  • If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
  • Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
  • Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
  • Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
  • Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
  • Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
  • Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
  • How does feeding feel overall?
• Werewolf
  • Is your play pattern as a werewolf different with these changes?
  • Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

The vampire blood scion form doesn't feel up to date with the current modern game. It feels like a re-skin of an already existing ability (Bone goliath) and provides nothing unique to the table. Heavily dislike the decision to instead of trying to work in wings onto the transform to make it look at least visually unique than "big transformation man" you guys decided to remove it. Perfect Scion also feels like an extremely weak morph, removing the vampire stage 4 disadvantages is a very weak thing for an ultimate-level morph. IMO should replace it with something more unique or allow us to summon a large gargoyle or death hounds.

The blood mist morph also is very disappointing, with the way the morph reads you'd expect the player to turn into a swarm of bats or have a cloud of bats around them. As it deals damage and you heal for 100% of the damage dealt, basically being a form of lifesteal. Turning into a big red fart cloud is very un-impactful.

ShadowHvo

The largest issue with the current iteration of the vampire (on the PTS) is the Increased Cost to Regular Abilities.

At present, any build diversity as a vampire is completely nulled and disadvantageous, in particular for Stamina (as all of the vampire abilities scales off Magicka, including Evisercate and its morphs.)

I really suggest that the penalty of Increased Cost to Regular Ability be changed into Reduced Healing Received from non-vampire abilities.

This relatively simple change will far more thematically fitting to the Vampire in TES, and is severe enough to be considered a proper weakness.

If the current weakness of increased ability cost remains, you will practically eliminate any and all vampire build diversity, which would be a huge shame. You effectively lock a character into primarily using 5 active abilities and 1 ultimate, instead of the +100 different abilities available in ESO. That is an incredible unhealthy result.

I've posted a thread not long ago about this on the general forum, and can be found right here: Click

Besides that, I believe Eviscerate should have a morph that scales off stamina, to allow at least one of these new abilities to be used effectively by stamina characters. Logically, it is a slash attack - truly that should have a stamina morph.

Vampirism isn't a magicka werewolf, and vampires make for both great mages, rogues and warriors - that should be represented in its toolkit.

The abilities visuals are overall very good looking, and a vast improvement to the old. I do personally wish that the animation of the passive: Unnatural Movement was more misty / dark and grey in its colour. (Similar to the cinematic trailer) instead of the glaring red. But that is a minor nitpick.

Feeding feels natural, yet is often a bit yanky when it is blocked by the Blade of Woe prompt.

Overall it is a solid new improvement, but one that will effectively eliminate any and all build diversity if the increased cost to regular abilities goes live. It does not however, feel faithful to the lore of the elderscrolls, and is a clear diversion from the tried and true function of how Vampires function in stages. But as it goes, everyone is willing to forfeit the lore for this more modernized vampire fiction version.

Tommy_The_Gun

I just want to touch a matter of how justice system works in case of WW.

So I was already in a WW form, and I was running near some NPCs and immediately got 550 gold bounty. NPC basically saw me running past by in WW form. I did not used any skills that are marked as criminal act. I was just moving from point A to B.

That is fine, WW is now a criminal act, but the weird thing is that, I run away, ported home and then transformed back to human form, and I still had that bounty on me.

Now I understand that it is simplified a bit but it does not make much sense that no one have seen me transforming into WW and back to human form... how will they be able to tell that WW they saw is me ? ? ? Does not make much logical sense tbh.

Besides - it seems that all it takes to get a bounty is for any random NPC to see you in WW form, not necessarily transforming in/out WW form.

I would suggest to maybe alter how justice system counts bounty in case of WW and maybe somehow decrease / remove bounty once you are in human form and now one saw you during activating ulti and de-activation (returning to human form). Also I would change the condition of getting a bounty from: being in WW form to: transforming to / out WW (pressing ulti button).

Aliyavana

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I just want to touch a matter of how justice system works in case of WW.

So I was already in a WW form, and I was running near some NPCs and immediately got 550 gold bounty. NPC basically saw me running past by in WW form. I did not used any skills that are marked as criminal act. I was just moving from point A to B.

That is fine, WW is now a criminal act, but the weird thing is that, I run away, ported home and then transformed back to human form, and I still had that bounty on me.

Now I understand that it is simplified a bit but it does not make much sense that no one have seen me transforming into WW and back to human form... how will they be able to tell that WW they saw is me ? ? ? Does not make much logical sense tbh.

Besides - it seems that all it takes to get a bounty is for any random NPC to see you in WW form, not necessarily transforming in/out WW form.

I would suggest to maybe alter how justice system counts bounty in case of WW and maybe somehow decrease / remove bounty once you are in human form and now one saw you during activating ulti and de-activation (returning to human form). Also I would change the condition of getting a bounty from: being in WW form to: transforming to / out WW (pressing ulti button).

this game already has guards where if you commit a crime on one corner of tamriel and teleport to the other side of tamriel, they will know you have a bounty on your head there seconds later. this isnt too bad in comparison

Zachary_Shadow

I love the new abilities and passives, especially the running into stealth, very useful; however, the debuffs at stage 4 are way too strong. 0% health regeneration and +20% cost to other abilities? It's just not worth it. Going back to 75% reduction for health regeneration would make sense and being a vampire shouldn't affect my other abilities. As a sorcerer, it completely got rid of my passives of reducing my cost. Possibly a different debuff would be interesting.

I enjoyed the little shopkeeper thing; it had me thinking and it was fun, but a couple of times I would do the little surprise and nothing would happen. Possibly increase the range when not in a combat situation?

Lastly, something that I was most looking forward to that was not addressed whatsoever was the appearance of vampires. This was something I feel most people dislike, have spoken out on, and yet with an entire chapter revolving around vampires, the feedback was not taken. It's upsetting, I don't want to always have to wear a skin just to hide my vampirism because of how awful it looks at stage 4. Give us the ability to hide it please or update the appearance of it.

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO

Love the changes to ww!

I can see pact leader meting the much stronger Morph now. Any chance you can make the berserker bleed reapply? Instead of having to wait the 4 seconds to reapply the bleed

Tommy_The_Gun

Aliyavana wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I just want to touch a matter of how justice system works in case of WW.

So I was already in a WW form, and I was running near some NPCs and immediately got 550 gold bounty. NPC basically saw me running past by in WW form. I did not used any skills that are marked as criminal act. I was just moving from point A to B.

That is fine, WW is now a criminal act, but the weird thing is that, I run away, ported home and then transformed back to human form, and I still had that bounty on me.

Now I understand that it is simplified a bit but it does not make much sense that no one have seen me transforming into WW and back to human form... how will they be able to tell that WW they saw is me ? ? ? Does not make much logical sense tbh.

Besides - it seems that all it takes to get a bounty is for any random NPC to see you in WW form, not necessarily transforming in/out WW form.

I would suggest to maybe alter how justice system counts bounty in case of WW and maybe somehow decrease / remove bounty once you are in human form and now one saw you during activating ulti and de-activation (returning to human form). Also I would change the condition of getting a bounty from: being in WW form to: transforming to / out WW (pressing ulti button).

this game already has guards where if you commit a crime on one corner of tamriel and teleport to the other side of tamriel, they will know you have a bounty on your head there seconds later. this isnt too bad in comparison

Yeah, but... lets just say it is weird and kinda immersion breaking if they only see you in WW form and are able to identify you in human form. Imagine if that would happen to Superman or Batman... they are dressed-up and no one knows their identity...

Aliyavana

There's two vampire lords in the base game that could be updated with the new vampire lord model:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Majorn_the_Ancient is a volkihar vampire lord but turns into a gargoyle as a placeholder.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire_Lord_Thisa doesnt have a vampire lord form, but could just be a title.

fierackas

So stamina vampires are now crippled to the point of not worth playing anymore?

ShadowHvo

fierackas wrote: »

So stamina vampires are now crippled to the point of not worth playing anymore?

Yup.

Caelc

excuse me.

what is the penalty to regular abilities at level 1. thanks

Vevvev

fierackas wrote: »

So stamina vampires are now crippled to the point of not worth playing anymore?

Only thing for a stamina vampire is that one vampiric drain spell that restores stamina. Other than that its all magic related.

Tommy_The_Gun

Vevvev wrote: »

fierackas wrote: »

So stamina vampires are now crippled to the point of not worth playing anymore?

Only thing for a stamina vampire is that one vampiric drain spell that restores stamina. Other than that its all magic related.

Look at passives:

Strike From The Shadows: This new skill is the 3rd Passive Skill. It grants a short bonus to your Weapon and Spell Damage after leaving Sneak, Invisibility, or Mist Form.

dcam86b14_ESO

Vampire
If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
yes and yes

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
I was already a vampire so I haven't tried the new one. will soon.

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
yes very fun.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
yes now I have to really watch what I do in town lol

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
I love the new visuals for each skill.

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
As a healer the no hp regen isn't noticed as much but idk how dps would feel.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
yes but still a few bugs.

How does feeding feel overall?
love the new feeding cutscenes however the game does not detect or pop up to feed on someone unless at a large distance away or it will pop the blade of woe. overall feeding is fun.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Aliyavana wrote: »

There's two vampire lords in the base game that could be updated with the new vampire lord model:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Majorn_the_Ancient is a volkihar vampire lord but turns into a gargoyle as a placeholder.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire_Lord_Thisa doesnt have a vampire lord form, but could just be a title.

Being called a Vampire Lord and having the Vampire Lord form are too different things, the leader of a Vampire clan is a Vampire Lord because they are Lording over a Vampire Clan, not because they have a transformation and the former is not a Volkihar Vampire, transformations into creatures are common Vampiric abilities.

Ragged_Claw

How do you extend your ultimate form? I can't even stay in it long enough to take a screenshot. Am I missing something? Also I got the impression that you could feed from the 'thrall' in the furnishing pack, but he just works as a training dummy. My character is copied over and was already a maxed out vamp, if that makes a difference.

lookstwice

love the clipping on one of feeding animations, thought i was watching some low budget b movie horror flick. not sure if wai.

sorry for any healers in dungeons while im stage 4, but as a nb and being able to attach any guard then hit invisibility and start sprinting i can get away from anybody. even with 0 health recovery, i might have to use this on all my characters. talk about getting to the end of each delve to kill the boss and collect skyshard. will be even better than now on just my nb.

full cowards with every other buffs you need, fully invisible sprinting at max run speed. lol.

Baraber

Love everything about the new vampire.
just one small request: could you bring back the Wings on the bat-swarm morph of the ultimate? it looked much, much better, AND was easier to differentiate.

Cellentel

The cost increase for non-vampire abilities is going to make vampires non-viable for pretty much all PvE content above overland questing. At the very least, the cost increase should be removed from stage 1 vampires so that (like on live), people can adjust their stage depending on the contents they’re doing.

At stage 1, the cost of all other abilities increases 5%, and that goes up to 20% at stage 5. This includes ultimates.

This is probably fine for players who stick exclusively to non-optimized overland content, as that is pretty...forgiving. But it is crippling for basically anything else

The other cost increase in recent times - New Moon Acolyte - comes with a lot of spell damage in return, can be single-barred to minimize the cost impact, and (most importantly) can be removed at any time by switching gear. If you’re running with an optimized group, sure, wear it for the spell damage boost, but if you’re in a pug with questionable ele drain uptime, you can swap to another set for fewer sustain issues. With the vampire change, this is not an option. If the cost increase is too much for your build in the content you’re doing, your only choice is to completely cure vampirism.

This doesn’t even get into the question of “is the cost increase worth the benefits”? We have 12 ability slots, but only 6 vampire abilities. So even if a build uses every vamp ability at once, that’s only half their available bar space. We either need to pretend the other bar doesn’t exist, or face crippling sustain problems for half of our abilities. Furthermore, I doubt many builds are going to use all of the vamp abilities at once, so in practice the cost increase applies to more than half.

Maybe there will be builds that top groups take advantage of that compensate for the cost increase to squeeze extra damage out. With sustain support from healers and perfect gameplay, maybe there’s something that you can do to take advantage of this. But this is out of reach for the vast majority of players, and will only serve to increase the dps gap.

What are the consequences?

1. People that want to participate in serious content basically can’t be vampires. I don’t do anything remotely close to RP, but I still like to have some sort of story behind my characters. Making my necromancer a vampire feels right. But now I have to choose between that and using it dungeons and trials. Since dungeons and trials are the majority of my play time,that will win out. The thought that I can’t play the new vampire-themed expansion as a vampire...sucks.
2. New players getting into serious content for the first time. A lot of people liked vampires in Skyrim. A lot of the nostalgic Skyrim fans you’re hoping to attract with this chapter will play vampires in ESO. The first time they step into group content, they’ll be facing crippling sustain issues on top of the existing challenges already facing new players learning how to do more than quest.

My recommendation

Ideally, remove the cost increase. At best, it’s going to reduce build diversity because it will rarely be worth it.

Assuming that you’re committed to the idea, though, at least remove it from stage 1. That way people can get rid of the penalty when the situation requires it. I’d still be able to be a vampire for questing, and I’d just need to remember to eat the right food before doing anything serious. Make the vamp active abilities usable at only stage 2 or higher if you need to.

Werewolves are able to choose to be werewolves depending on the content. Vampires should have the same choice.

Aliyavana

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

There's two vampire lords in the base game that could be updated with the new vampire lord model:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Majorn_the_Ancient is a volkihar vampire lord but turns into a gargoyle as a placeholder.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire_Lord_Thisa doesnt have a vampire lord form, but could just be a title.

Being called a Vampire Lord and having the Vampire Lord form are too different things, the leader of a Vampire clan is a Vampire Lord because they are Lording over a Vampire Clan, not because they have a transformation and the former is not a Volkihar Vampire, transformations into creatures are common Vampiric abilities.

As noted next to Thisa's link, I did state that it might be a title but, " the former is not a Volkihar Vampire" you are wrong.

"His father belongs to the Volkihar Clan. Tyrants known for their cruelty and lust for blood. They embrace their power and believe themselves to be greater than mere mortals.
As you can guess, Valeric opposes this line of thinking."

Why would a high ranked volikhir vampire turn into a gargoyle?

Zachary_Shadow

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Yes and no, most of my abilities were correctly transferred, but it looks like because I was still leveling Mist Form's second ability, it took that instead of leveling all the way from the first skill to allowing me to choose the second form of Mist Form.

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?

I plan on making one of my other characters a vampire so I can try it out!

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?

I enjoyed the shopkeeper interactions and how I had to handle my way around that, but I fear that it is going to get old and I will get more annoyed with it than satisfied.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
I do, I think this revived the idea of being a vampire; I still have some issues with the current iteration, such as the health recovery being 0% at stage 4. Honestly, this wouldn't be as bad if it just applied in combat, as I was running on my mount and would fall, get hurt, and not heal back up, making me more in peril when I'm about to fall again. It felt like I had to get off my mount, heal, then go back to running around, only to get hurt again. It doesn't feel like I'm a powerful vampire in this state, but instead like I'm an old man who has fallen and can't get up.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
I think the skill line is definitely interesting and I look forward to playing with it more, especially the toggle abilities. I think it can really redefine my playstyle, but I think the cost to other abilities at stage 4 is way too high. It cancels out my other passives, so what's the point?

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
I think the abilities are more stated towards Magicka users, which on my only vampire who is a Stamina Sorc, it feels pointless. I definitely hope to see some changes to where maybe a form of one ability costs stamina, because at this point it definitely is more geared towards magicka users.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
I think it does, it definitely feels like I'm a strong vampire blessed by the Matron of Vampires; however, there are times where I feel it has made me weaker, such as the whole falling on my mount situation.

How does feeding feel overall?
I do love this new iteration of being a vampire, but there are several points that I think need to be addressed:
1. The health regeneration: I think it should only apply in combat at stage 4, otherwise, when we are out in the open world falling off our horses, it just feels frustrating and annoying.
2. The cost to other abilities. I think this should be a different debuff. My other abilities, whether from my class or skill lines, should not suffer because I'm a vampire. If the debuff does stay, I think it needs to be lowered, maybe like 10% at stage 4 so my passives from my class that lowers my ability costs don't feel completely useless.
3. No stamina love. I hope that this is only the first parse and I hope to see some stamina abilities in there, rather than all just magicka.
4. The appearance. This was my main gripe of being a vampire for years. Back when the Class Rep threads were just forming, so many people's problems with being a vampire was the look. I don't want to look like an old, severely anemic man with a serious lack of health. I don't want to feel the need to put on a skin just to hide that. This was probably my main hope of change when it was announced that vampires were going to get changed and I was really disappointed that it wasn't. At least give the ability to make skin markings more apparent while being a vampire or give us the ability to hide the vampirism skin entirely.

I do love the changes and look forward to any more changes being made. I love the feeling of being stealthy and how that was obviously focused on, it gives me a reason to be in stealth.

Aliyavana

Zachary_Shadow wrote: »

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Yes and no, most of my abilities were correctly transferred, but it looks like because I was still leveling Mist Form's second ability, it took that instead of leveling all the way from the first skill to allowing me to choose the second form of Mist Form.

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?

I plan on making one of my other characters a vampire so I can try it out!

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?

I enjoyed the shopkeeper interactions and how I had to handle my way around that, but I fear that it is going to get old and I will get more annoyed with it than satisfied.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
I do, I think this revived the idea of being a vampire; I still have some issues with the current iteration, such as the health recovery being 0% at stage 4. Honestly, this wouldn't be as bad if it just applied in combat, as I was running on my mount and would fall, get hurt, and not heal back up, making me more in peril when I'm about to fall again. It felt like I had to get off my mount, heal, then go back to running around, only to get hurt again. It doesn't feel like I'm a powerful vampire in this state, but instead like I'm an old man who has fallen and can't get up.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
I think the skill line is definitely interesting and I look forward to playing with it more, especially the toggle abilities. I think it can really redefine my playstyle, but I think the cost to other abilities at stage 4 is way too high. It cancels out my other passives, so what's the point?

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
I think the abilities are more stated towards Magicka users, which on my only vampire who is a Stamina Sorc, it feels pointless. I definitely hope to see some changes to where maybe a form of one ability costs stamina, because at this point it definitely is more geared towards magicka users.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
I think it does, it definitely feels like I'm a strong vampire blessed by the Matron of Vampires; however, there are times where I feel it has made me weaker, such as the whole falling on my mount situation.

How does feeding feel overall?
I do love this new iteration of being a vampire, but there are several points that I think need to be addressed:
1. The health regeneration: I think it should only apply in combat at stage 4, otherwise, when we are out in the open world falling off our horses, it just feels frustrating and annoying.
2. The cost to other abilities. I think this should be a different debuff. My other abilities, whether from my class or skill lines, should not suffer because I'm a vampire. If the debuff does stay, I think it needs to be lowered, maybe like 10% at stage 4 so my passives from my class that lowers my ability costs don't feel completely useless.
3. No stamina love. I hope that this is only the first parse and I hope to see some stamina abilities in there, rather than all just magicka.
4. The appearance. This was my main gripe of being a vampire for years. Back when the Class Rep threads were just forming, so many people's problems with being a vampire was the look. I don't want to look like an old, severely anemic man with a serious lack of health. I don't want to feel the need to put on a skin just to hide that. This was probably my main hope of change when it was announced that vampires were going to get changed and I was really disappointed that it wasn't. At least give the ability to make skin markings more apparent while being a vampire or give us the ability to hide the vampirism skin entirely.

I do love the changes and look forward to any more changes being made. I love the feeling of being stealthy and how that was obviously focused on, it gives me a reason to be in stealth.

Surprised they haven't added a mortal disguise skin yet

MotownMurder

Overall, I'm actually very optimistic about the way the update looks. I think it captures the spirit of what it is to be a vampire very well, and even though I'm by no means a hardcore player, I think even the cost increases aren't all that crippling as long as you make liberal use of the vampire powers in your rotation.

That being said, I do have one suggestion that I feel strongly about, and that is that the vampire skill line should have some options to accommodate stamina players. I know it's tempting to think of the dynamic in terms of "Werewolves are for stamina, so vampires should be for magicka," but unlike werewolves, vampires in the TES universe have just as much of a chance of being physical fighters as they do of being spellcasters. I think it would be a serious oversight to let this go to live without accommodating both types of vampire players.

The claw skill, for instance; in my opinion, it's a little bit silly that the melee claw attack has no morphs that allow it to be a stamina attack. Out of all the attacks, that looks like the one that should absolutely use stamina, but instead stamina isn't even an option! The health morph is interesting, but if it had to be sacrificed so that stamina players would have access to the spammable, I think that would be a good change.

VaxtinTheWolf

If this mechanic is not negotiable then I suggest a 3%/6%/9%/12% or 0%/5%/10%/15% non-vampire skill increase.

I have never personally experienced vampire or werewolf gameplay on any of my characters.

Universe

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
I used a maxed out template character. Not relevant.
Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
I used a maxed out template character. Not relevant.

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Mixed feelings. I find that too many npcs refuse to talk with me while at Stage 4 vampire.
The criminal acts to most of the abilities and the idea that many NPCs are refusing to talk with the player is kind of ruining the experience.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
I get that you want that players will be immersed while being vampires, but the criminal acts to most of the abilities and the idea that many NPCs are refusing to talk with the player is kind of ruining the experience.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
The Ultimate is not fun to use and I would prefer a better "Vampire Lord" appearance which is similar to the Bethesda's Dawnguard version. It doesn't have to be the same, but the general appearance.
A redesign of its mechanic in combat is also in order(there is nothing special about it).

Also, the -100% Health Recovery in stage 4 is too punishing in combat... It should be like this:
Health Recovery:
Stage1: -10%
Stage2: -25%
Stage3: -50%
Stage4: -70%

The cost increase for normal abilities should be capped at 10%-15% for Vampire Stage 4.

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
The CC ability(Hypnosis) is almost a copy of Mass Hysteria of the Nightblade, I would prefer something more creative.
It is useful in tight situations.
I find the Vampire damage abilities kind of mediocre damage, nothing really strong.
The healing channel is powerful and useful.
Unnatural Movement is very useful but I find it too strong. The 50% decrease to Sprint Cost at rank 2 should be decreased to about 30%.
I play as DPS.
Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
Yes. A bit too much(except the bad appearance & combat of the Blood Scion-Vampire Lord). I would have preferred the abilities wouldn't be so punishing in relation to the justice system. Furthermore, you can decrease the number of NPCs affected by the "refusing to talk to vampires" effect.
How does feeding feel overall?
It is fun to use when it works... The blade of Woe animation X usually interferes with it.
Also, "Feed" doesn't appear in many cases despite being hidden and the target in unsuspecting.

*I may update my post when I will have more feedback.

Tessitura

MotownMurder wrote: »

Overall, I'm actually very optimistic about the way the update looks. I think it captures the spirit of what it is to be a vampire very well, and even though I'm by no means a hardcore player, I think even the cost increases aren't all that crippling as long as you make liberal use of the vampire powers in your rotation.

That being said, I do have one suggestion that I feel strongly about, and that is that the vampire skill line should have some options to accommodate stamina players. I know it's tempting to think of the dynamic in terms of "Werewolves are for stamina, so vampires should be for magicka," but unlike werewolves, vampires in the TES universe have just as much of a chance of being physical fighters as they do of being spellcasters. I think it would be a serious oversight to let this go to live without accommodating both types of vampire players.

The claw skill, for instance; in my opinion, it's a little bit silly that the melee claw attack has no morphs that allow it to be a stamina attack. Out of all the attacks, that looks like the one that should absolutely use stamina, but instead stamina isn't even an option! The health morph is interesting, but if it had to be sacrificed so that stamina players would have access to the spammable, I think that would be a good change.

Uuuh, what are you talking about? There are stamina options in there. They cost magicka or health, but they benefit stamina builds more then I would l personally would even like them to.

Glacku808

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Vampire and Werewolf changes. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Vampire
  • If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
  • Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
  • Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
  • Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
  • Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
  • Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
  • Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
  • How does feeding feel overall?
• Werewolf
  • Is your play pattern as a werewolf different with these changes?
  • Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Okay, so being brutally honest.
1. Feeding seems so quick, I feel like I am at Stage 4 after no time - then I have to drink more mara's or go to the fountain often.
2. I found the justice system fun, but like I was attacking someone with no one around and every hit ranked up the gold cost, then when they died - I still had a bounty, though technically no one saw.
3. Vampire abilities could use a little bit more pink, liking the bright red, but maybe a little too much bright?
4. The vampire claw ability maybe could use some tweaking in the animation, like perhaps some sort of three dark lines, because right now its just a red blob every time I attack, rather than looking claw like.
5. The most main point I have to make - the Ultimate isn't ultimate enough, the whole point is to feel strong and bad ass and like my character can be whoever, the form looks too blue and dark ( cannot see my face) meanwhile the rest of the abilities are red/pink. There are no wings (imagine that in a sad voice) There is no optional bat swarm/mist form, like in Vamplore/trailer (again, also imagine that in a sad voice. And it ends so quickly, I sort of wanted to exist as my Vampire for a bit. If it was like WW where you had to keep feeding that would be a fair cost.
6. The questline for the Vampire is nice, I think more thorough than before - animations seem a bit wonky though, both Lamae and my own. As for learning the skills - the voice overs are amazing!!
7. Please refer to #5

Otherwise - thank you for the fun, much love!

Akinos

The cost increase on regular skills just for being vampire is ridiculous. It''s basically be a vampire and only use vampire skills or don't be vampire. I don't think that will be worth in any content.

MotownMurder

Tessitura wrote: »

Uuuh, what are you talking about? There are stamina options in there. They cost magicka or health, but they benefit stamina builds more then I would l personally would even like them to.

There are definitely options for stamina players, yeah, and it's definitely progressed in that regard from where it was during the original "showcase" period, now that stamina has that vampiric drain morph. Still, I'm not sure it's there yet to the point where a stamina player would feel like it's justifiable to be a vampire in the same way a magicka player might, and that's something I think is important.

I also just really strongly believe that the physical melee power should have an option to do weapon damage, both because stamina characters are the ones most likely to use a melee power anyway, and also just from a logical point of view that it's weird to have a claw power not being able to do physical damage rather than just magic damage.