PTS Update 26 - Feedback Thread for Vampire & Werewolf

CP5

Just to touch on my short time on werewolf real quick since I don't have a vampire to test right now. The changes were mostly a straight-up buff having passives that you would normally have which is nice, but the change to feral pounce is amazing. Having a dot basically solo sustain your transformation in combat left me with a full-timer after almost every fight and I loved that. The follow-up attack feels delayed however, like when I land then go to cast it my character just waits for a second which is off. Other than that it is mostly the same as on live just a bit more useful and more to do than just left-click.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Akinos wrote: »

The cost increase on regular skills just for being vampire is ridiculous. It''s basically be a vampire and only use vampire skills or don't be vampire. I don't think that will be worth in any content.

If this goes live, I'd go cure my Magpler's vampire status first thing, This skill cost increase would effectively neuter his healing ability and usefulness in PvP and PvE. The Bat Swarm ulti and the passives aren't good enough to suffer the cost.

I will convert my Magden vampire to a pure vampire build with maybe a few warden support skills. I expect the Northern Storm ulti would still be useful

Tethalion

Regarding Vampire:

The changes to vampire are extensive, as advertised, but not user-oriented. You don't need a lot of research to see that the majority of your player-base utilise vampire in conjunction with other elements of their avatar. This iteration pushes vampire dangerously close to a role-play / niche-play, only, element. If this is the intention, then I'd say you haven't gone far enough, but if it's not the intention, then these changes will alienate the majority of your users.

Recommendation: weave the increased costs between vampire & non-vampire skills, i.e.: after casting a vampire skill, the cost-increase for non-vampire skills are nullified for 2 seconds (just an example).


Regarding Werewolf:

Changes are good and appropriate, including the incorporation into the outlaw system. However, if the aim is give werewolf more play opportunity and placement beyond a novelty, I recommend lowering the cost of activation. Please note, this is not a buff request, since its unlikely werewolf (or any niche mechanic) will be competitive (nor should it be) with custom-player builds. It's simply to afford it more flexibility in usage.

Vevvev

Tethalion wrote: »

Regarding Vampire:

The changes to vampire are extensive, as advertised, but not user-oriented. You don't need a lot of research to see that the majority of your player-base utilise vampire in conjunction with other elements of their avatar. This iteration pushes vampire dangerously close to a role-play / niche-play, only, element. If this is the intention, then I'd say you haven't gone far enough, but if it's not the intention, then these changes will alienate the majority of your users.

Recommendation: weave the increased costs between vampire & non-vampire skills, i.e.: after casting a vampire skill, the cost-increase for non-vampire skills are nullified for 2 seconds (just an example).

You actually have a good idea, but instead of weaving the costs into the abilities why not have it so that slotting a vampire skill increases non-vampiric skill costs? If you want to play as a vampire for the passives you get hit with the health recovery and flame damage debuff, but if you play for the active skills it hits sustain of non-vampire stuff. Combine the two and you get the intended effect ZOS has originally planned.

ShadowHvo

Vevvev wrote: »

You actually have a good idea, but instead of weaving the costs into the abilities why not have it so that slotting a vampire skill increases non-vampiric skill costs? If you want to play as a vampire for the passives you get hit with the health recovery and flame damage debuff, but if you play for the active skills it hits sustain of non-vampire stuff. Combine the two and you get the intended effect ZOS has originally planned.

I like this idea too.

Vampirism is a state of being, not a class, and thus it is okay to have passive elements as long as the weaknesses cover them. Which I would like to believe it does.

Cellentel

Vevvev wrote: »

You actually have a good idea, but instead of weaving the costs into the abilities why not have it so that slotting a vampire skill increases non-vampiric skill costs? If you want to play as a vampire for the passives you get hit with the health recovery and flame damage debuff, but if you play for the active skills it hits sustain of non-vampire stuff. Combine the two and you get the intended effect ZOS has originally planned.

This is a very good idea.

Savos_Saren

Vampire
If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly? Yes

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities? Played a leveled character, so N/A

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive? Yes, and it made sense!

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world? Yes

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
1. The resource management is waaaaay too discombobulated.
2. The ZERO health regen is horrendous and negates any effective tools (ie: Troll King).
3. Activating Blood Frenzy is damn near a death sentence to the player.
4. Vampiric Drain and Blood for Blood feel underwhelming.
5. Both forms of Mist Form should provide major evasion. Change Elusive Mist to something else.
6. Also, let's face it- most people who play vampire are going to be NBs (maybe some Necros)- Mezmerize is simply overshadowed by Mass Hysteria or Bone Totem.

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? No. Not on any of my characters except maybe my MagBlade.

Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS? Tank and DPS.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore? Yes.

How does feeding feel overall? Those are some great animations!


Werewolf

Is your play pattern as a werewolf different with these changes? Nope. Leap, Fear, Howl, Claws and now spam Leap.

Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live? Yes.


Do you have any other general feedback? Yes.
1. Werewolf feels much, much more powerful than Vampire.
2. Vampire's abilities don't really have an "execute" and they take too long/cost too much to use.
3. Werewolf only suffers from poison damage whereas Vampire suffers from health recovery reduction, fire damage, skill cost increase.

wolfie1.0.

Since feeding is now a key factor in getting to stage 4 vampirism and feeding so often interfers with Blade of woe. Can we Please have them be on seperate keybinds? or at least allow us to remap them? If not can we have the Option in settings to Turn one or the other off? or the ability to choose which one to trigger?

Chrlynsch

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I just want to touch a matter of how justice system works in case of WW.

So I was already in a WW form, and I was running near some NPCs and immediately got 550 gold bounty. NPC basically saw me running past by in WW form. I did not used any skills that are marked as criminal act. I was just moving from point A to B.

That is fine, WW is now a criminal act, but the weird thing is that, I run away, ported home and then transformed back to human form, and I still had that bounty on me.

Now I understand that it is simplified a bit but it does not make much sense that no one have seen me transforming into WW and back to human form... how will they be able to tell that WW they saw is me ? ? ? Does not make much logical sense tbh.

Besides - it seems that all it takes to get a bounty is for any random NPC to see you in WW form, not necessarily transforming in/out WW form.

I would suggest to maybe alter how justice system counts bounty in case of WW and maybe somehow decrease / remove bounty once you are in human form and now one saw you during activating ulti and de-activation (returning to human form). Also I would change the condition of getting a bounty from: being in WW form to: transforming to / out WW (pressing ulti button).

Bruh, they saw your nameplate...

Chrlynsch

Werewolf Testing day one pts:

PVE

Full damage concept

1. Howl of Agony does not do increased damage when your target is facing you tested on a dummy, player and mobs. It does have increased damage on a feared target.

Howl of dispare however worked fine on a dummy, and it took the addional damage from facing me.

2. Feral pounce at rank 4 only gives 1 second to transformation not 4 as it used to, unsure if this is tooltip issue or not.

Carnage is an interesting concept however in practice it is underwelming. Having to activate pounce first and then carnage is kind of clunky. Expecially if you are right next to your target to begin with. On a dummy I saw no increase in damage weaving it into my rotation while the target was low on health. I'm assuming that using this ability skillfully should result in a dps boost, however this is not the case.

The ability should work differently when your target is in melee range vs pouncing distance. When your target is within 10m you hit it with carnage, when your target is over 10m you hit it with the gap closer (and gain time in werewolf form).

3. Hircine's Rage works well on a dummy, the one that isn't hitting you back. Major Berserk is a powerful buff and I understand why it has a difficult proc condition, however the werewolf also takes 20% additional damage while active, so why the condition? You already have a balancing factor applied to the ability, why make it frustrating and unreliable to use in combat?

I recomend both the stamina restore and Major Berserk be granted if you Hircine's rage "over" heals the werewolf.

The cost of the heal is still really high.

4. Ferocious roar seams like it was designed with the heavy/light proposed changes in mind. Couldn't find a reason to activate it in pve... heavy attacks are still clunky and the speed increase only seams to work well when rapid firing off heavies. (Need to experiment more with different pve sets to see if there is any real use for it besides the passive buff.)


Results:
My Pve setup using Kena, Rele, and Bloodmoon on a sorc orc came out to 82k dps on an iron, same as live.

47k dps on a 6mil, down 3k. (No major Fracture)

Need to fix Howl of Agony to see what we are capable of.

DCanadianBacon

Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live? Yes. Very much yes.

Although I already found a bug, but I'm not sure if it's intended to function as I found it.

Bug: Ferocious Roar (Morph of 'Roar')
For the Werewolf Skill "Ferocious Roar", the 33% speed buff to Heavy Attacks only applies to the second heavy attack after your first fully charged one, and any subsequent heavy attacks you chain in a row afterwards. But, if you do any action between heavy attacks, the 33% buff will not apply to the next heavy attack, unless you successfully chain heavy attacks after the first one. Tested in and out of combat, with the same results.

Essentially, the buff only works after the first fully charged heavy attack, and only if you chain consecutive heavy attacks, with no other actions in between.

Essentially, as it currently functions, the Tooltip should read:
For 7 seconds, after a fully charged heavy attack, your next and all consecutive heavy attacks are 33% faster.
Not sure if this is an intended feature of the skill, but if it is, it should be clear from the start, because my first heavy attacks (fully charged at least, hard to tell with medium weaves) were never 33% faster.

Sorry if this wasn't super concise, but I wanted to make sure I explained it well. I don't have capture software to show what I mean right away, so if someone want to test and record it themselves, please do.

navystylz_ESO

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?

• No. Only mist copied over completely so I could immediately start leveling blood mist.

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?

• Haven't seen this yet.

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?

• Ya, it's fine. I particularly like how you have to mez merchants to talk to them.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?

• Haven't done any quests to see. Overland Skyrim seems a bit skint on people to feed on. Had to go to a city to do it. But guess that can make sense.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?

• Swarming Scion is 100% better than Devouring Swarm. At the same time it does feel like a poor man's version of Goliath. The look is different enough, I guess. Feels weird using real weapons as this big Blood Scion though. Also I know we aren't vampire lords, but without the thin bestial near nakedness and wing stubs, just feels like a Goliath. Though in many ways a superior form of it since you get max magicka, stamina and health and all damage you deal heals you. Rather keep this than have it changed to something and possibly end up weak and subpar, though.
• If non bow weapons could be dropped so that that they attacked with claw and cast spells from hands would give it a better feel. This is exactly what vampire lord is, cast massively strong spells while floating and used claws when not. Just feels incredibly stupid to be this hulking scion using weapons.
• Blood for Blood is and I like how it works. Especially when your health can reliably go down with health cost on abilities. My only qualm is that I wish it used hands and not weapons. There's even a claw animation flying through air.
• Simmering Frenzy is super strong. Though without my addons sometimes can't tell if it's on or off. Game is bugging some so that health bar is bugging ou and not updating, and the white effect on icon goes away sometimes. Also not sure, but does it fall off when going into scion form? is it supposed to?
• Vampiric Drain love this version. With the whole focus on being a vampire, it's not just a gimmick to have on bar. New animations look great, and the healing on it to keep powering your health cost abilities let you feel like abilities are playing off each other.
• Not really much to say here. It's a stun. It works from what I can tell. Cool to use on merchants.
• Blood Mist. I actually love the animation. I like the pool of blood. Dunno why people being so picky.
• Unnatural Movement. I agree that I was hoping this would be black smoke like in the cinematic. Haven't seen elusive mist, are any of these mists/invis the cool black mist?

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?

• That's easy for me. I'm a NB that I made to be a vampire blood sorcerer back in early access. He's been getting better and better to realize my concept dream, and while he as fun before, now he's able to build around being this vampire blood sorcerer and actually be good at it. I feel I can take this into group content.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?

• I mean, Lamae Bal is the original daughter of cold harbor. So the Blood Scion/Vampire Lord thing fits. Could be whatever ou wanted since she's the first. Looks enough alike, to tell the roots there. The otehr stuff fits thematically. But again my biggest issues is using stupid weapons in hands while transformed. Also this is bugged currently and keeps you character oversized when turning back sometimes.

How does feeding feel overall?

• animations are superb. The durations are fine. The new furnishing make it simple to raise or lower stage. As far as if it's intrusive to gameplay? Well one my favorite things to do is randomly murder folk with blade of woe. Feed now replaces this and has me so stoked to be able to do this in vampiric fashion now. So feeding in gameplay in a cake walk for me.

Lastly, something that I was most looking forward to that was not addressed whatsoever was the appearance of vampires. This was something I feel most people dislike, have spoken out on, and yet with an entire chapter revolving around vampires, the feedback was not taken. It's upsetting, I don't want to always have to wear a skin just to hide my vampirism because of how awful it looks at stage 4. Give us the ability to hide it please or update the appearance of it.

Oh. And this. I dunno if the original alpha changes are missing because everyone hated the blood on the body or if it just somehow not in right now. There's a happy median between human pink and maggot white. The vamps in the cinematic were a pale cream with slight veins. They were actually pretty handome considering their curse. If we have to have weird jacked up eyes instead of that nice golden change at stage 1, i rather have the glow from TES 5 skyrim than blood shot red with white pupils. Ultimately though not everyone is going to be happy and since gear or other skins can already hide it, might as well make it so people can hide it. Most of us used mods to have better vamp appearances in skyrim.

SeaUnicorn

The above changes were made to reduce the impact of bash weaving in a normal damage dealer's rotation, which was creating a huge rift between those who did and did not engage with the mechanic. Bashing is meant to primarily focus on interrupting of mechanics, as well as to help increase or control proc conditions of item sets, passives, or other events, rather than dealing damage. We've decided to retain the ability to deal damage with bashes, however, and even increased their overall effectiveness if specifically built for. The flat damage modifiers will result in a slight decrease for standard bash builds, but a more moderate increase for super specialized bash builds such as Pummeling Goliath builds that go all in on enchantments, passives, and item sets (while not going too far like the builds were at its launch!)

Blood Frenzy (New Skill)
This new skill is a permanent buff that can be toggled off and on outside of the global cool-down. While it is toggled on, you gain a massive bonus to Weapon and Spell Damage, but your Health is drained every second and you cannot be healed by other players.
Simmering Frenzy (Morph 1) – Increases the Weapon and Spell Damage bonus, but also increases the Health cost the longer it remains toggled on.
Sated Fury (Morph 2) – When it is toggled off, you heal for a portion of the Health you spent while it was toggled on.

Those 2 items do not add up. You do realize that min-maxers will weave Shimmering Frenzy. To get high DPS ppl will learn to enable Shimmering Frenzy before each skill and disable it after each skill to reap the benefits of spell damage boost. Which is basically 4 clicks per second, rather than 3 as it was with bash-weaving.

Banana

My vamps have got the cure in advance. Those cost increases suck hard.

Kilcosu

Werewolf
Is your play pattern as a werewolf different with these changes?

only difference at this point in time is trying to deal with the very clunky pounce in melee range, it is a dps loss to try to weave in 2 pounces to proc carnage

Do you find playing a werewolf as enjoyable as what’s currently live?

currently on live werewolves are plagued with magicka sustain issues for healing and an underwhelming tooltip. I hoped that would be addressed but it seems not a priority. still loyal to the pack though! so yes it is as enjoyable

D3x

The vampire feeding skill at time overlaps with blade of woe which was very annoying and secondly the animation/cutscene of feeding seems a bit bugged as far as character placement is concerned, the character just hugs the victim and doesn't really suck from the neck like the animation is wanting to portray.

darthgummibear_ESO

I love almost all of the vamp changes. Stage 4 cost increase is ridiculous, even more so for stamina characters. It should go from 2-10, not 5-20.

Also, the visual for blood frenzy hp sustain morph needs to be more distinct. I can barely see it on my own toon, let alone anyone who isn't me being able to see it.

TheInfernalRage

I don't know if I'm just reading the skill wrong, but my quick test with Blood Frenzy and its morphs result to the skill un-toggling itself eventually. I still cannot figure out why this is happening. Is this intended or bugged?

Based on my experience with the vampire so far, I do not see any need to go beyond Stage 1.

Addendum: I have maxed out Dragonknight Breton. I was disappointed at first because of the price to pay for Stage 4, but then I reverted to Stage 1 and used the new set. Vampire is back but I need that toggle to remain toggled. Right now, after a few rounds of rotation, the toggle just disappears. Sometimes maybe when I'm at the 2% health threshold, but it also happened while I'm more than 50% health.

WraithShadow13

I wasn't a fan of the vampire changes. Like... at all... Minus blood mist, maybe. I play as a vamp for bonuses but, like others have said, it just doesn't play well with other abilities. I posted a thread about suggested changes, so i won't list them here but i disliked the changes all together, and i would greatly prefer an updated and improved Bat Swarm than the scion form. I hated turning into a vamp lord in skyrim and this is no exception. I would greatly appreciate a skill in the tree to turn that transformation off.

i was underwhelmed to the point where this revamp seemed more like a move to sell cures in the Store more than an upgrade to the skill tree.

Again, posted ideas on another thread, so i'm sorry if this post is just me complaining.


The werewolf changes haven't been tested, so i will have to come back on that one.

Djennku

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
How does feeding feel overall?

I have been messing around with the vampire skills, and I absolutely love it! The skills fit together with the vampire play style quite well, and when utilizing my class abilities and vampire abilities, it makes for a unique combat experience.


Vampires are like necromancers in that they have a steep learning curve, but once you understand how to use them effectively, they become a powerful force in combat.

I love the changes to feeding with the savageness that you tear into your prey and drain them dry. It's very satisfying. The stages are also interesting, and I've figured out how to do quite well with no health recovery at stage 4.

Having the merchants reject doing business with you is an interesting mechanic. I have not yet figured out how to convince them. It brings back memories of Morrowind, where people would not talk to you or outright attack you for being a vampire.

I play a Nightblade DPS, and have both a stamina and magicka setup for it.

The only things I'd like to see change are the Scion form, and feeding adjustments. I assume that the current scion appearance will be adjusted in the future, but for now, it looks like a weird dremora with a clown face. I'd love to see a version that looks more like the vampire Lords we get to fight, with male and female models, and even different models for those who are Argonian or Khajiit like how the Goliath ultimate from the Necromancer class looks. Maybe have a mouth with sharp fangs visible. The Scion form is also very slow and can't sprint. I'm not sure if that is intentional or if there are adjustments that need to be made for it, but I thought I'd mention it here,

With the feed synergy, I'd like to be able to activate it a bit closer to the target. I feel like it's quite far away, but I also understand that you want to be able to keep BoW and Feed from overlapping.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I found it very easy to sustain with my character even with the increase to ability costs,

Transairion

Forgive me for what may be a stupid question, but I didn't see any mention of using vampire abilities advancing your vampire stage anymore: is that still present, or do you HAVE to go find some poor NPC to feed on if you want to stay Stage 4 at all times?

Because I won't lie, that's kind of annoying I only have the two vampires and they're both purposefully maxed out and having to feed them instead of using abilities keeping me topped up while be... just a hassle, really.

Wolfchild07

Remove the timers from vampire/werewolf forms. It's not fun watching/maintaining timers. Especially where the werewolf passives are concerned, you could use the ones devoted to timer management for other improvements. Just feels so unnecessary, especially in PvE.

Jaimeh

The cost increase should be removed completely from stage 1.

Noxavian

Djennku wrote: »

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
How does feeding feel overall?

I have been messing around with the vampire skills, and I absolutely love it! The skills fit together with the vampire play style quite well, and when utilizing my class abilities and vampire abilities, it makes for a unique combat experience.


Vampires are like necromancers in that they have a steep learning curve, but once you understand how to use them effectively, they become a powerful force in combat.

I love the changes to feeding with the savageness that you tear into your prey and drain them dry. It's very satisfying. The stages are also interesting, and I've figured out how to do quite well with no health recovery at stage 4.

Having the merchants reject doing business with you is an interesting mechanic. I have not yet figured out how to convince them. It brings back memories of Morrowind, where people would not talk to you or outright attack you for being a vampire.

I play a Nightblade DPS, and have both a stamina and magicka setup for it.

The only things I'd like to see change are the Scion form, and feeding adjustments. I assume that the current scion appearance will be adjusted in the future, but for now, it looks like a weird dremora with a clown face. I'd love to see a version that looks more like the vampire Lords we get to fight, with male and female models, and even different models for those who are Argonian or Khajiit like how the Goliath ultimate from the Necromancer class looks. Maybe have a mouth with sharp fangs visible. The Scion form is also very slow and can't sprint. I'm not sure if that is intentional or if there are adjustments that need to be made for it, but I thought I'd mention it here,

With the feed synergy, I'd like to be able to activate it a bit closer to the target. I feel like it's quite far away, but I also understand that you want to be able to keep BoW and Feed from overlapping.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I found it very easy to sustain with my character even with the increase to ability costs,

Do you really think they'll be making adjustments to the Scion form?

I really hope it looks better by release, would love to see some wings....

Lotus781

Just dont change the look of stage one vamp or the first thing i'll be doing when it goes live is getting cured.

Malprave

I didn't think it was possible but you've made the vampire skill line even more useless. I was only using this for stam recovery like everybody else. Twenty percent regular skill cost? Nobody is going to do this, for any content. You have a few lukewarm skills here that don't make the penalties worthwhile.

The feeding animation is lousy. Why don't I just jump on them from behind and bite into their neck? Why am I suddenly standing in front of the victim like I'm going to shake their hand or something? And then the camera zooms in way too close. Call up the animator that did the blade of woe animation and see if theiy're available to rework this.

I hate to come off sounding like such an a@#hole, but this vampire stuff is a huge miss as it stands. The zone however, is amazing! Please don't shoot yourselves in the foot by letting these vampire changes go live like this.

D3x

Transairion wrote: »

Forgive me for what may be a stupid question, but I didn't see any mention of using vampire abilities advancing your vampire stage anymore: is that still present, or do you HAVE to go find some poor NPC to feed on if you want to stay Stage 4 at all times?

Because I won't lie, that's kind of annoying I only have the two vampires and they're both purposefully maxed out and having to feed them instead of using abilities keeping me topped up while be... just a hassle, really.

yeah, you need to feed to increase the level but it's not that much of a big deal because stages last for 4 hours not that hard to sneak on some human mob and press x once in every 4 hours.

Qbiken

My feedback will evolve around werewolfs, primarely from a PvP perspective. I´ve yet to check out the PTS so my initial thoughts will be from only reading the first rounds of patch notes.

FIRST IMPRESSION
Based on my initial patch notes, I feel really pleased with the changes to werewolf as a whole. The direction where werewolf is more oriented around a strong offensive approach is hopefully becoming real with Greymore. Many of these changes are things I would´ve loved have with the Wolfhunter patch, but it is what it is. My take on the changes so far:

Call of the Pack: This passive now works with Direwolves summoned from the Pack Leader.

Like it, it´s a nice QoL change for the Pack Leader morph, very much needed.

Hircine’s Bounty: Casting this ability while at full Health now restores Stamina. While this ability or its morphs are slotted, you passively gain Major Brutality.

Hircine’s Rage (morph): Casting this ability at full Health now grants Major Berserk for 6 seconds, but also causes you to take additional damage.

Hircine’s Fortitude (morph): This ability now also increases your Health and Stamina Recovery by a small percent of the Healing caused (with a cap), as well as continuing to increase the base healing of the ability.

When I said I like the overall changes to werewolf with Greymore I do mean it, but this rework bothers me. A lot. Major brutality for having it slotted is great and I love it, but I would like to see it only work while being in werewolf form. This is to stop non werewolf builds from "abusing" this feature.

However, what bothers me the most is that you need to be at full health to activate the different effects (this goes for the morphs as well). This becomes very problematic with Hircine´s Rage morph. There´re very few occasions when you´ll sit at full HP. When fighting someone else in a PvP situation it´s almost impossible to sit at 100% HP. This would require you to spam the skill multiple times in succession. And since the heal still costs an absurd amount of magicka, you´ll run out of magicka incredibly fast. And using a heal when you´re already at full health defeats the purpose of using a heal. Sure you get powerful additional effects in return, but the proc condition where you need to be at 100% HP is very unrealistic to meet in a combat situation. I mean, why would I need major berserk (Hircine´s Rage) or more sustain (Hircine´s Bounty) when I´m out of combat and not fighting anyone?

I´ve 2 propposed solutions:
#1: Lower the threshhold when the additional effects can proc to 80% of max HP or higher
#2: Make the effects proc on overhealing (aka any heal that would take you to 100% HP or above)

Piercing Howl: This ability and its morphs now deal 10% more damage to enemies who are facing you.
Howl of Agony (morph): Decreased the damage bonus of this morph to 25%, down from 33%, but it now also works on enemies who are facing you.

My only worry with this change is that I know from experience that some effects have trouble proccing when it comes to directions and "flanks". But PTS testing will have to provide further feedback regarding that.

Pounce: This ability now becomes Carnage for 5 seconds after casting it, which allows you to quickly rend your target, causing them to Bleed for 10 seconds with an aggressive execute scaling bonus.

Brutal Pounce (morph): Carnage now overrides to Brutal Carnage, converting it into a conal attack. Each time an enemy is hit by Brutal Carnage, you gain extra Weapon Damage up to a maximum of 6 times.

Feral Pounce (morph): Dealing damage with the initial hit or the override Feral Carnage, grant Stamina in addition to extending the time you stay in Werewolf form.

Love the intentions with this rework and can´t wait to check how it plays. But from what I´ve heard, some people says the carnage is very clunky, and that the gapclose acts clunky as well. Can´t tell myself but will have to check it out once I get on the PTS.

R

oar: This ability now also causes enemies to become Off Balance for 7 seconds. While slotted, this ability and its morphs passively grant Major Savagery.
Deafening Roar (morph): This morph now also applies Minor Maim to enemies for its duration.
Ferocious Roar (morph): This morph now increases your Heavy Attack speed by 33% for its duration.

Off-balance and Major Savagery on the base morph is fantastic, great change. But same thing here as with Hircine´s Bounty, the major savagery should only be available while transformed. Regarding the morphs I know that there´s a bug with Ferocious Roar and some Heavy attacks aren´t buffed if you use abilites in between your Heavy attacks. Minor maim on deafening, sure why not.

Werewolf Transformation
Pack Leader (morph): This morph no longer causes your Direwolves to apply Minor Maim to enemies when they deal damage. Instead, while you are transformed you gain 10% damage mitigation and you passively grant you and 11 other nearby allies Minor Courage.

While I´m personally not a huge fan of this morph, I love these changes and pack leader finally get the group utility it deserves. Great change.

Kinetiks

Minor Courage is not applied on the stat sheet?

DeathStalker

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Yes and yes

Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
N/A

Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
No. I hate everything about the justice system.

Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
No, because you make vampires seem very weak and fragile.

Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
Yes

Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
No. The abilities are too weak. There is too much punishment for being a vampire for little to no power and reward. DPS

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
No. Vampires are known for being strong and immortal, not fragile little kittens.

How do Vampires feel overall?
I hate the changes. If you think the changes are ok, then take them into a Vet dungeon and use only class skills. Then do the same dungeon again with only Vampire skills. The only reason I believe you are not getting more push back is that PVPers are already planning on how to exploit the running invisibility thing in pvp. None of the skills make you feel strong and powerful. Vampires are supposed to be immortal, never fear death, almost impossible to kill aside from fire and sun. The greatest thing missing is the sense you get from lore and every other TES game of Vampires border lining on being overpowered. Being a Vampire should enhance every and any class not hinder and make it weaker as it does now.