PTS Update 26 - Feedback Thread for Vampire & Werewolf

I3oggle

I mainly play a tank, the most useful change would be Undeath. But to get undeath, you must have stage 3 vampirism, which causes abilities to cost 15% more. This is a crazy debuff, for not that much in return.

The negatives need to be looked at again, because right now this certainly isn't worth it for end game PVE content.

At least allow us to get rid of all benefits and negatives by starving ourselves, like how stage 1 currently works on live. I would like to be able to continue being a Vampire but being able to turn it off for when I raid if the need arises.

BohnT2

Can people finally stop asking to ruin Eviscerate and Morphs by making it a ranged spammable, it's currently cheaper and deals a lot more damage than any ranged spammable while also having no obnoxiously bad minimum traveltime.

There are 2 non class magicka spammables that anyone can use and every ranged magicka class has a ranged spammable except for sorcs who just run elemental weapon.

By changing eviscerate to a ranged ability it will lose damage, will become more expensive and it will have a traveltime making it worse in PvP.
Just so some people can get their ranged vampire RP and for everyone else the skill dies as it's secondary effects are not good enough to compete with other ranged spammables.

Good job on asking for a funeral for a fine skill

Noxavian

BohnT2 wrote: »

Can people finally stop asking to ruin Eviscerate and Morphs by making it a ranged spammable, it's currently cheaper and deals a lot more damage than any ranged spammable while also having no obnoxiously bad minimum traveltime.

There are 2 non class magicka spammables that anyone can use and every ranged magicka class has a ranged spammable except for sorcs who just run elemental weapon.

By changing eviscerate to a ranged ability it will lose damage, will become more expensive and it will have a traveltime making it worse in PvP.
Just so some people can get their ranged vampire RP and for everyone else the skill dies as it's secondary effects are not good enough to compete with other ranged spammables.

Good job on asking for a funeral for a fine skill

You seem to only acknowledge the PvP side of things. What is wrong with making it both? Give it the morph option of remaining a melee claw attack or a ranged attack with the other morph.

A melee magicka skill that is primarily going to be used by cloth users will be utter trash in PvE. Because typically you don't want to be that close to the fight while wearing cloth armor.

People ARE NOT asking for the skill to change completely. They just want the option to be there for *both* parties.

XomRhoK

Will post and repost in different threads, to more people to hear, maybe it will somehow change the situation. I don't care much of a numbers on the skills, what i am care is a visuals of skills and vampire feeling of gameplay, i can change my gear, some skills, playstyle if i need too, but i can't visuals and feel of the skills.

Repost from General Discusson thread:
I am also think that Blood Scion transformation should alter your vampiric abilities. I already made suggestions in feedback about that, it's not set in stone, but possible direction of changes. Some quick overview:
- In Blood Scion form you can't use Weapon skills and attack with claws, you can use all non weapon skills, your vampire skills receive some improvements.
- Vampiric Drain: while in Blood Scion form additionally restore mana and stamina and can't be interrapted.
- Mist Form: while in Blood Scion form add bat swarm around mist, while in mist form you can use skill as a gap closer on enemy.
- Mesmorize: in regular form it's singe target, melee skill, and you can bite mesmerized players/NPCs restoring HP and ultimate. While in Blood Scion form skill became ranged, you mesmerize and drag enemies to close range and from close range you can bite them, in Blood Scion form instead of ultimate points bite prolong time of your transformation. Visuals with Vampiric Grasp from TES: Skyrim in mind.

Also ZOS can free one more slot for interesting ability. Blood Frenzy can be moved to passives, and HP loss can be achieved by more/all skills consuming HP, if ZOS really want to stick to this mechanics which i don't really like.
And one more slot, if they remove Eviscerate and in return give us oppotunity to attack with claws in Blood Scion form and in regular form by introducing ring(for example) in their new Antiquities system, ring will force unarmed animation and replace it with unarmed claws animation of Bloodfiend NPCs, weapon damage, sets, traits, maybe enchants will still work, just weapon will not be visible. So Light and Heavy attacks will take niche of claw attacks, and will free space for new interesting ability.

But even if ZOS implement this i can’t use it, because i absolutly don't like visuals of Blood Scion form. I don't like horns, i don't like his huge height, bulkiness body, shoulder and hips armor that made him even more bulky, I don't like his slow movement animation, i don't like that he is glowing like christmas tree. I posted a picture in another thread with comparison of what transformations we could get and what we have now:

Abnormal Blood Scion's height:

BohnT2

Noxavian wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Can people finally stop asking to ruin Eviscerate and Morphs by making it a ranged spammable, it's currently cheaper and deals a lot more damage than any ranged spammable while also having no obnoxiously bad minimum traveltime.

There are 2 non class magicka spammables that anyone can use and every ranged magicka class has a ranged spammable except for sorcs who just run elemental weapon.

By changing eviscerate to a ranged ability it will lose damage, will become more expensive and it will have a traveltime making it worse in PvP.
Just so some people can get their ranged vampire RP and for everyone else the skill dies as it's secondary effects are not good enough to compete with other ranged spammables.

Good job on asking for a funeral for a fine skill

You seem to only acknowledge the PvP side of things. What is wrong with making it both? Give it the morph option of remaining a melee claw attack or a ranged attack with the other morph.

A melee magicka skill that is primarily going to be used by cloth users will be utter trash in PvE. Because typically you don't want to be that close to the fight while wearing cloth armor.

People ARE NOT asking for the skill to change completely. They just want the option to be there for *both* parties.

There is not a single trial or dungeon fight that is not doable as a meele character some might be easier on ranged specs but not impossible.

What people coming from PvE don't understand is that if Zos makes this skill a ranged ability they'll apply their ranged spammable standards and then any other ranged spammable will result in more damage this leaving eviscerate useless.

JWillCHS

BohnT2 wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Can people finally stop asking to ruin Eviscerate and Morphs by making it a ranged spammable, it's currently cheaper and deals a lot more damage than any ranged spammable while also having no obnoxiously bad minimum traveltime.

There are 2 non class magicka spammables that anyone can use and every ranged magicka class has a ranged spammable except for sorcs who just run elemental weapon.

By changing eviscerate to a ranged ability it will lose damage, will become more expensive and it will have a traveltime making it worse in PvP.
Just so some people can get their ranged vampire RP and for everyone else the skill dies as it's secondary effects are not good enough to compete with other ranged spammables.

Good job on asking for a funeral for a fine skill

You seem to only acknowledge the PvP side of things. What is wrong with making it both? Give it the morph option of remaining a melee claw attack or a ranged attack with the other morph.

A melee magicka skill that is primarily going to be used by cloth users will be utter trash in PvE. Because typically you don't want to be that close to the fight while wearing cloth armor.

People ARE NOT asking for the skill to change completely. They just want the option to be there for *both* parties.

There is not a single trial or dungeon fight that is not doable as a meele character some might be easier on ranged specs but not impossible.

What people coming from PvE don't understand is that if Zos makes this skill a ranged ability they'll apply their ranged spammable standards and then any other ranged spammable will result in more damage this leaving eviscerate useless.

Also both the Psjic Order and Destruction Staff skill line have ranged spammables. It would be nice to have a magicka ability that allows players to make melee builds without switching classes. I love the idea of giving tanks options too.

It would be less of an issue for me if there was a spell sword skill line. lol

Sahidom

I will post my replies to the test questions soon.

My immediate feedback goes to feeding from NPC when you have the Blade of Woe unlocked. It defaults to Blade of Woe and it's challenging to get a Feed lock on the target. This need to be addressed for some feeding QoL. I suggest a ON/OFF switch for either add Blade of Woe ON/OFF in Gameplay menu or add this toggle option for both situations.

FYI: Testing the vampire skills and the Psijic Order, Elemental Weapon, created a situation where block cancelling activated the Psijic Order damage shield always on, per say.

BohnT2

Taken from my post https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/523275/mesmerize-and-morphs-need-buffs

With greymoor magicka got access to an AoE CC that is however severely underperforming as so many other CC options in this game.

Mesmerize
This new skill is a crowd control ability that affects all enemies in a cone in front of you, stunning them if they are facing your direction.
Hypnosis (Morph 1) – Affects all enemies around you instead of enemies in front of you.
Stupefy (Morph 2) – Enemies are snared after the stun ends.

Visually it looks great and feels smooth to use as the CC is instant, there's no delay or anything but now we have to talk about the big issues of the skill and why it will just be a "bad CC you have to use because there's no other options"


The base skill and the Stupefy morph only have a tiny cone and is also tied to enemies looking at you, meaning someone who's running away from you can just turn around and you can't stop them, this is bad game design, mercy is something coming from dominant participant of a fight not from the inferior one who decides to run away this also applies to hypnosis.

All three versions of this skill offer no secondary effect that would make it better as a skill to use over other options.
A 50% snare is irrelevant and completely unnecessary.
Having the CC be 360° is good but enemies still have to face you and it's just a stun.

What I propose is this:
- Increase the cone of the base morph and stupefy to be a 135° angle infront of you.
-add this to the base morph "affected targets who get hit by one of your vampire abilities in the next 3 seconds are affected by 'crippling fear' which deals dot damage over 5 seconds" this helps with vampires lack of offensive abilities.

Stupefy becomes the dedicated offensive morph by also stunning people who aren't looking at you in the cone while retaining the base morph effects and losing the snare.

Hypnosis becomes a more utility focused CC which gains the 360° angle and applies 2 debuffs that you are affected by to targets in the range for 5 seconds (you still have them on you)

Mesmerize shows how weak CC became over the years and almost every CC that's currently in the game has to be made a lot stronger, they have to be:
- instant with no wind up or stacking mechanic
- deal damage or apply something which helps offensive play
- be unblockable or undodgeable or have a much more powerful secondary effect if they're none of those

The CC that has to be used as a standard is fossilize which deals damage, is instant, procs class passives, is undodgeable and unblockable, but as a trade-off is meele and single target only.
That's how CC's should be and not tied to mechanics that rely on your enemy to step in or look at you

x48rph

I've been playing a vampire bosmer stamblade in pvp for a long time and honestly, these changes just suck. For one, every single thing costs and scales off magicka which means there's almost no incentive to use the abilities as a stam character. While getting the dark stalker passive at stage 1 now is nice, even at that stage my abilites will all cost more and I take more fire damage and get less health recovery. Just so I can run around faster in stealth? Going to a higher stage is even more crippling for a stam char since you continue to get worse and worse penalties and there's no benefit to do so as a stam player cause you can't really capitalize on the reduced vampire ability costs.

Honestly, even playing a magicka character looks kind of crappy because everything seems to revolve around giving you a boat load of penalties just so you can get cheaper costs on vampire abilities which I'm sorry to say are pretty underwhelming and of questionable usefulness. I don't see how they are worth the penalties in 90% of cases I can imagine.

PS: The invisibility while sprinting looks really, really cool, I love it, but sadly will probably never actually make use of it if the current changes go live cause the cost is just too great. Can't even regen health at all even when not in combat.

Cameron991

I think vampire should implement some of the NPCs vampiric abilities, they look so much cooler then ours and give us some of the missing abilities we need with vamp like gap closers, aoe etc. I think you should give us these new abilities when we turn into blood scion form. In option would be keep blood scion morph that puts you at stage 5 and allow then to use their own abilities and the other morph gives them a whole new set of vamp abilities that you already have in game for npc so that way we all win. We all really love the work you guys are putting in but please allow us to have access to those cool npc bat abilities. The ones we are talking about start at 2:07. Keep up the great work! l

Firstmep

Flat cost reduction applies to every tick of mist form as seen below.
This also put non-vampire magicka abilites to a more managable cost.
See below

And before anyone thinks running triple cost reduction enchants on jewellery is not viable, you can easily get 900+ spell damage out from vampire, block-cancelling mist form alone gives 300.

Aliyavana

vampire feed and blade of woe should have an option to prioritize one over the other

WhyMustItBe

Dear ZOS team,

I love the idea of new vampire actives, however I feel the current system as it stands is simply not up to the standards of the Elder Scrolls. The main reason is due to the ultimate transformation 1) not having a meaningful enough functionality beyond reducing a penalty that feels arbitrary and limits build diversity and 2) lacks unique animations commensurate to its size and purpose.

My suggestion thus far is as follows:

Make transforming into your Scion ultimate change the behavior of other vampire active abilities. Different Scion morphs could even change abilities in different ways, such that there could be a "tank" version and a "DPS" version.

Here is a video posted in the general discussion thread that showcases some possible visual effects for these changes (abilities of concern start at 2:02).

For example (current skills for reference):

• Vampiric Drain becomes Blood Swarm which looks sort of like the vampire lord bat swarm teleport in Skyrim, or the dash ability in the above video, causing you to dash to your target as a bloody bat swarm doing damage and healing from any enemy you pass through on the way, and temporarily burst in an AOE damage explosion on arrival, all while applying the standard morph effects. A debuff/cooldown could be added to keep the ultimate or magicka generation potential from becoming imbalanced. The tank version could stun and/or debuff.
• Blood Mist becomes Sanguine Squall which now allows casting other VAMPIRE abilities without breaking the toggle and has a cool new ground swarm visual similar to the video that moves with your character, and does double normal damage. Tank version could possible slow and/or debuff.
• Eviscerate and morphs work much the same but use a no-weapon animation similar to werewold to make Scion look more like the terrible beast it is (somehow a huge vampiric monster swatting at you with a baseball bat staff seems comical to me). Can be designed so that light attacks weave into the left-right animation seamlessly or that both alternate on the same animation cycle so using either Eviscerate or a light attack will keep up the animation sequence. Heavy attacks can do some really cool animation as well.
• Mesmerize behaves mechanically much the same, only it affects enemies NOT facing you as well. Tank version can also silence ranged attacks after the stun ends.

In addition, normal ability cost penalty at Rank 1 should be 0% scaling up from there, with slightly higher fire vulnerability, capping at 25% at rank 4.

I hope you will consider it. There is still plenty of time my sweet. Plenty of time!

MrDenimChicken

Hey Zenimax,

most of the new vampire animations are pretty good looking. However, that spammable (eviscerate) honestly looks pretty weak. It looks like that DK animation (searing strike) in terms of the arm lazily falling down, and then that red color that comes out is way too subtle.

Can you guys make it look a little cooler? I'd love to use a vampire spammable ability, but it would be awesome for it to look nicer

Cameron991

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Dear ZOS team,

I love the idea of new vampire actives, however I feel the current system as it stands is simply not up to the standards of the Elder Scrolls. The main reason is due to the ultimate transformation 1) not having a meaningful enough functionality beyond reducing a penalty that feels arbitrary and limits build diversity and 2) lacks unique animations commensurate to its size and purpose.

My suggestion thus far is as follows:

Make transforming into your Scion ultimate change the behavior of other vampire active abilities. Different Scion morphs could even change abilities in different ways, such that there could be a "tank" version and a "DPS" version.

Here is a video posted in the general discussion thread that showcases some possible visual effects for these changes (abilities of concern start at 2:02).

For example (current skills for reference):

• Vampiric Drain becomes Blood Swarm which looks sort of like the vampire lord bat swarm teleport in Skyrim, or the dash ability in the above video, causing you to dash to your target as a bloody bat swarm doing damage and healing from any enemy you pass through on the way, and temporarily burst in an AOE damage explosion on arrival, all while applying the standard morph effects. A debuff/cooldown could be added to keep the ultimate or magicka generation potential from becoming imbalanced. The tank version could stun and/or debuff.
• Blood Mist becomes Sanguine Squall which now allows casting other VAMPIRE abilities without breaking the toggle and has a cool new ground swarm visual similar to the video that moves with your character, and does double normal damage. Tank version could possible slow and/or debuff.
• Eviscerate and morphs work much the same but use a no-weapon animation similar to werewold to make Scion look more like the terrible beast it is (somehow a huge vampiric monster swatting at you with a baseball bat staff seems comical to me). Can be designed so that light attacks weave into the left-right animation seamlessly or that both alternate on the same animation cycle so using either Eviscerate or a light attack will keep up the animation sequence. Heavy attacks can do some really cool animation as well.
• Mesmerize behaves mechanically much the same, only it affects enemies NOT facing you as well. Tank version can also silence ranged attacks after the stun ends.

In addition, normal ability cost penalty at Rank 1 should be 0% scaling up from there, with slightly higher fire vulnerability, capping at 25% at rank 4.

I hope you will consider it. There is still plenty of time my sweet. Plenty of time!

^^^ I agree 100% having those npc abilities would make our vampire so much better, I think most vampire fans would definitely agree! )

Noxavian

Cameron991 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Dear ZOS team,

I love the idea of new vampire actives, however I feel the current system as it stands is simply not up to the standards of the Elder Scrolls. The main reason is due to the ultimate transformation 1) not having a meaningful enough functionality beyond reducing a penalty that feels arbitrary and limits build diversity and 2) lacks unique animations commensurate to its size and purpose.

My suggestion thus far is as follows:

Make transforming into your Scion ultimate change the behavior of other vampire active abilities. Different Scion morphs could even change abilities in different ways, such that there could be a "tank" version and a "DPS" version.

Here is a video posted in the general discussion thread that showcases some possible visual effects for these changes (abilities of concern start at 2:02).

For example (current skills for reference):

• Vampiric Drain becomes Blood Swarm which looks sort of like the vampire lord bat swarm teleport in Skyrim, or the dash ability in the above video, causing you to dash to your target as a bloody bat swarm doing damage and healing from any enemy you pass through on the way, and temporarily burst in an AOE damage explosion on arrival, all while applying the standard morph effects. A debuff/cooldown could be added to keep the ultimate or magicka generation potential from becoming imbalanced. The tank version could stun and/or debuff.
• Blood Mist becomes Sanguine Squall which now allows casting other VAMPIRE abilities without breaking the toggle and has a cool new ground swarm visual similar to the video that moves with your character, and does double normal damage. Tank version could possible slow and/or debuff.
• Eviscerate and morphs work much the same but use a no-weapon animation similar to werewold to make Scion look more like the terrible beast it is (somehow a huge vampiric monster swatting at you with a baseball bat staff seems comical to me). Can be designed so that light attacks weave into the left-right animation seamlessly or that both alternate on the same animation cycle so using either Eviscerate or a light attack will keep up the animation sequence. Heavy attacks can do some really cool animation as well.
• Mesmerize behaves mechanically much the same, only it affects enemies NOT facing you as well. Tank version can also silence ranged attacks after the stun ends.

In addition, normal ability cost penalty at Rank 1 should be 0% scaling up from there, with slightly higher fire vulnerability, capping at 25% at rank 4.

I hope you will consider it. There is still plenty of time my sweet. Plenty of time!

^^^ I agree 100% having those npc abilities would make our vampire so much better, I think most vampire fans would definitely agree! )

Totally agree with this! Even if we could only use the NPC ones in scion form

fierackas

As a stamina vampire player will I be:

1. Buying the new vampire house - NO
2. Buying the new vampire furnishings - NO
3. Seeking a refund for the various vampire covering skins I bought - YUP

Maybe you need a rethink ZoS

WhyMustItBe

fierackas wrote: »

As a stamina vampire player will I be:

1. Buying the new vampire house - NO
2. Buying the new vampire furnishings - NO
3. Seeking a refund for the various vampire covering skins I bought - YUP

Maybe you need a rethink ZoS

Well, to be fair werewolf players basically have NO option to play as magic-based in a viable way, nor have they ever.

Stamina vampires only ever really did it for the sneak speed and the ultimate generation drain, which you will still have.

I do think they could add weapon damage to Strike from the Shadows passive however, since the Blood Frenzy toggle is already buffing spell AND weapon damage.

However if anything stamina vampires got a little stronger with this, mainly due to the new power toggle.

The problems with the new vampire is mainly for magic users who try and go full vampire abilities, as the toolkit is simply not complete for that purpose (see my previous post). Also the normal ability cost increase simply ruins the subclass for ANY build which is really what needs a rethink here.

Chrlynsch

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

fierackas wrote: »

As a stamina vampire player will I be:

1. Buying the new vampire house - NO
2. Buying the new vampire furnishings - NO
3. Seeking a refund for the various vampire covering skins I bought - YUP

Maybe you need a rethink ZoS

Well, to be fair werewolf players basically have NO option to play as magic-based in a viable way, nor have they ever.

Stamina vampires only ever really did it for the sneak speed and the ultimate generation drain, which you will still have.

I do think they could add weapon damage to Strike from the Shadows passive however, since the Blood Frenzy toggle is already buffing spell AND weapon damage.

However if anything stamina vampires got a little stronger with this, mainly due to the new power toggle.

The problems with the new vampire is mainly for magic users who try and go full vampire abilities, as the toolkit is simply not complete for that purpose (see my previous post). Also the normal ability cost increase simply ruins the subclass for ANY build which is really what needs a rethink here.

Strike from the Shadows (New Skill)
This new skill is the 3rd Passive Skill. It grants a short bonus to your Weapon and Spell Damage after leaving Sneak, Invisibility, or Mist Form.

Cireous

Mesmerize:

Subdue all enemies in front of you, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction.

This stun cannot be blocked.

Hypnosis, Mesmerize morph:

Subdue all enemies around you, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction.

This stun cannot be blocked.

Affects all enemies around you.

---

When you choose the Hypnosis morph, the phrase: "Affects all enemies around you," is not on it anymore and you can still only stun and mesmerize NPCs that are in front of you. It has a cool animation that makes you feel like you should be doing something to everyone around you, but that's not the case.

It seems like it just does exactly what baseline Mesmerize does but with a confusing animation.

I guess this skill is bugged even more than just not being able to mesmerize NPCs properly.

x48rph

Also wanted to point out how absolutely baffling and meaningless the reduced vampire ability cost at stage 1 is. You literally can't get any lower stage so how is "reduced cost" at stage one even possible or a benefit since it is just the automatic base cost of the abilities for every single vampire. The only thing lower than stage one is not being a vamp, in which case you can't use the abilities. That really makes no sense at all.

Yamenstein

Vampire

If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Yes.
Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
Haven't tried it. Will update when I do.
Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Meh. I don't get why Simmering Frenzy (it's base version and the other morph) is a criminal act. Unless the animation just isn't completed it doesn't make sense logically as nothing is happening when you have it enabled (other than some black wisps that move around you). Please rethink that one. Or make it so the animation actually makes you think "this shouldn't be allowed".
Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
Don't get question.
Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
Yep.
Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
I think it might be useful for PvP (the stun is awesome). The other skills are okay. I probably won't use any of them for my main builds - maybe if I'm just having fun and just doing zone quests. Then sure.
Also the ultimate is just another version of Necromancer ult.
Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
Fine. Though please allow more items/skills that increase and decrease feed levels.
How does feeding feel overall?
Please rebind feed key to another button (combo of buttons). I know you have to be further away to feed but that doesn't make sense. Also sometimes you can't be that far away because standing behind an NPC is impossible.

Glacku808

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Vampire and Werewolf changes. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Vampire
  • If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
    I'd say it was alright, though I have been Vamp level 10 for some time, I still needed to level up to even morph some abilities
  • Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
    yes, maybe slow down the actual teaching part - I felt like, not sure if it was the voice over or the quest, but it flew by
  • Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
    Yes, except somethings, elusive mist for one, I don't think should add criminal charge, it could just be magic that you are using, it doesn't scream vampire - also, it made it so I couldn't zip around fast because I would get a bounty. Also, why is it red - and the other option is a giant pool - please change to bats
  • Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
    not strongly enough, I can't really use my abilities too often - again elusive mist, but also needing to charge up ultimate - I'm a vampire already, I don't need ultimate? But also, having using it, then it coming back up real quick just makes it tedious to slip in and out without my control. I don't feel like I can be a vampire out in the world Also with the feeding - you only need to feed 2-3 times before you go out to quest or do whatever else. If the strength + beauty weren't tied, you would have different incentives to feed.
  • Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
    No, it feels like its using abilities that used to exist in some shape or form. You have a claw attack, drain (old), a stun (old but separate now), elusive mist (old) and the blood boil, which is just buff that you don't really see.
  • Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
    somewhat, not for my healer at all, I wish something would help me heal others. Also, the drain doesn't do enough dps. Could have used a few more abilities, that were different too, something like a quick attack, or something magic like. Just feels lack luster.
  • Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
    No! It feels like you are trying to take all the vamprie lore and cram it into one. It feels all over the place but without organization. The Ultimate is the biggest let down - second to no bat rush like in the trailer. Not only do you have beautiful new vampire lord models in the game, but we get a crappier version - npcs don't pay, I do - its too dark, no wings, no levitation.
    Mother Lamae wants us to feed and feed, but we only need to 3 times from level 1. I just don't feel like I am a vampire, less than before. I feel like I am limited. I can't turn into elusive mist in public, no vampire lord - despite being a vampire lord. 2 solid new abilities, the claw + blood boiling buff. Same passives - though the sprinting invisibility thing is the most fun part about being a vampire. If you can make the ultimate be like the WW, that'd be best - I'd actually feel like I have the ability to be a vampire in game, and play as one if I want, rather than being kicked out after 20 seconds, just for the ultimate to charge back up and me be kicked out again after 20 minutes.
  • How does feeding feel overall?
  The animations are fun - for sure! Maybe a bit more variety, idk I keep getting the same 2/3 over and over. But like I said above, you feed 2-3 times, to sort of buff up and then you head out into your adventures rather than it be part of your adventure. Feeding making us look ugly, then us having to run back to our houses to look human again, feels silly. We should have the option of if we want feeding to make us look more human or more feral. Something about feeding doesnt feel like we get to do it enough - or have to
  
  Summary - I don't feel vampiery enough - especially in an entire chapter dedicated to vampires, I feel like I am the most lack luster vampire there is in skyrim

navystylz_ESO

Noxavian wrote: »

I implore everyone to watch this video before commenting. Take a gander at what normal NPC vampires get and compare it to what we got as players. The NPC abilities start at 2:07.


Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?:
Nope, because we clearly aren't a normal vampire because we lack the normal vampire abilities as shown above.


Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?:
Nope, because instead of giving us the REAL up-to-date version that the new NPCs are getting, we get a re-hashed one that is similar to the old skill line.

Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
Nope not in the slightest, now that we can compare what abilities we're getting as players to that of NPCs. The NPCs feel like vampires, I'm not too sure what we as players feel like, but it certainly isn't a vampire.

PLEASE GIVE US at least SOME OF these abilities zos. Don't let their cool animations go to waste! THIS is what a lot of us, I would argue an extremely solid amount, wanted from a vampire rework. COMPLETELY new abilities, multiple ways to deal damage instead of just 1, a proper AoE damage ability, a bat swarm gap-closer....

Please take this into consideration @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_LeamonTuttle @ZOS_RichLambert we want these very cool abilities as vampires! Please.

Wow.... um... just wow. It's almost laughable that Lamae Bal tells you that we're perfected versions of vampires.

NPC mesmerize using their eyes like compulsion, Players wave their hand. "These aren't the droids you're looking for."
NPC keeps the in combat feed. Or is this vampiric drain? Rather have hand drain though if it's vampiric drain. Colors better though.
Then all these other cool abilities they get. Though don't think we should have some blood imp, whatever thing.

Also a fan of the suggested higher cost on stage 1 for vamp abilities or putting stage restrictions on abilities.

Also like the Stage 4 or Blood Scion form giving bonus to abilities.

navystylz_ESO

BohnT2 wrote: »

Can people finally stop asking to ruin Eviscerate and Morphs by making it a ranged spammable, it's currently cheaper and deals a lot more damage than any ranged spammable while also having no obnoxiously bad minimum traveltime.

There are 2 non class magicka spammables that anyone can use and every ranged magicka class has a ranged spammable except for sorcs who just run elemental weapon.

By changing eviscerate to a ranged ability it will lose damage, will become more expensive and it will have a traveltime making it worse in PvP.
Just so some people can get their ranged vampire RP and for everyone else the skill dies as it's secondary effects are not good enough to compete with other ranged spammables.

Good job on asking for a funeral for a fine skill

Someone had to say it.

navystylz_ESO

RedReign wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

RedReign wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

Blood Frenzy should scale off your vampire stage. Otherwise, there are going to be a ton of stage 1 burst characters using that one skill.

You have a very good point. With this current set up there is very little reason to go to stage 4.

You can't even talk to NPCs if youre beyond a certain stage which is ridiculous considering it takes 4 hours to lower your stage (or hey, you can buy a totally not pay-to-win fountain to do it instantly)

You can buy Bloody Mara potion to decrease your stage or use Mesmerize skill on NPC to bypass restrictions of stage 4 vampirism.

I'm sorry, excuse my ignorance but are saying that if I use Mesmerize I can bypass the NPCs refusal to speak to me? If thats true I'll change that part of my feedback immediately.

Yes. Keep in mind what the ability tells you about using it and don't forget to have them facing you.

Feizao wrote: »

Getting a bloodfiend bite back then felt so rewarding. Timing the moon phase, searching spawn areas, and hoping no *** killed them. and the 75% fire damage ughh. lol I'd never be able to tank bloodroot

Ya, it was. I was the 2nd vampire in Ebonheart Pact. I was only level 17 when I got infected and did some pro kiting in the quest. Unfortunately, since I was a level ~20 vampire when I got out the quest, it took forever to level up the skill line and I missed out on the old first vamps to 50 achievement. Not sure if only 1 got it, or a few. The first who got infected first got it.

Vampire Lord Armor

With all that's been said, it also makes me think of the changes to this set and how incredibly boring it is. With vampire ability costs and all the ways to get cost reduction is this a set anyone will even glance at twice?

20% Increased reduction sounds great at first but:

• It's multiplicative. So you actually only net an extra 12% cost reduction on your normal reduction
• Vampire costs already aren't that bad. Even Simmering Frenzy can be dealth with pretty easy without this set
• There are so many ways to reduct damage while Frenzy will give you plenty bang in the dmg departement, so you won't miss the damage.
• On top of the only getting 12% reduction, it's a boring extension of the stage system so you add a bunch of negatives. Why on earth would people extend their penalties for a paltry 12% more reduction, with the spell power for vampiric skills removed and much better options out there??

It all makes me kind of sad now. At first I was super hyped, vamp for life kind of guy. Yay, my main would get more interesting. Now I seem the limitations. How people can still be encouraged to see in stage 1 for arguably the best part of being vampire. They get the ult and frenzy, why not? Wanting to embrace the vampiric life makes you WEAKER. NPCs have more interesting skills than we do. Granted, current iteration vampire on PTS is way better for my character than current live, but I feel like people wanting just the frenzy will make more use of the vampire lifestyle staying stage 1, than me wanting to be a stage 4 vampire.

Oathunbound

Vampire

1.If you played with a copied character, did your existing skill line XP progress transfer properly?
Sort of, i was able to fully convert elusive mist. i was also able to morph the ult and eviscerate but their morphs were still level 1

2.Did you enjoy the questline/tutorial? Did you find it sufficiently taught you how to use the abilities?
Was on a transfer character ans was unable to test this

3.Did you find the justice gameplay fun and intuitive?
Sort of. It feels kinda half completed, yes i can't user certain skills in game because they would out me as a vamp, yet merchants and service providers recognize me as a vamp and will not deal with me, yet guards don't seem to notice at all. It feels patchwork in its current state but i like the concept.

4.Do you feel the idea of being a vampire feels reinforced in the game world?
again sort of. The need to feed for power is there buuuuut that's it. again the interactions thing is just kinda blah even with the "workaround" it just seems kinda meh.

5.Does the skill line feel up to date with the current modern game?
In a way yet, it went from passives only to actively using vamp skills to utilize it properly/full extent. Also the need to feed to maintain power coupled with npc interactions makes you feel like a vampire rather then just forgetting about it .

6.Does the skill line fit into your current build and feel useful? Do you primarily play as a Tank, Healer or DPS?
For the most part yes. As a magblade dps I can work in vampires skills into my build/rotation and change the way i play, however there are 2 drawbacks that feel a tad overdone. 1 is the cost increase at the lowest level of vampire, and the second is the 100% health regen at level 4 vampire. The first makes it hard to in essence "turn off". On live the penalty at low level vampire are minimal enough that you can practically play as a "mortal" again, but with the passive cost increase it makes it almost worth just staying at the level vamp you want to use and staying vamp, keep stages 2-4 the same cost increase and just remove the cost increase at stage 0, possibly increase the other penalty's slightly to compensate? On the second note it feels weird that regen is 0. I see why you did that as it would make it easier to sustain either the hp cost of the spammable or the frenzy skill but it feels strange that a powerful creature has no regenerative capability outside of stealing life fore from others. Perhaps a 95 percent reduction or something around that degree? otherwise i feel hollow and brittle rather then a powerful vampire.

7.Does the new direction feel faithful to the lore?
In all ways other then the transformation. I like the concept of the transformation but id rather see it as a temporary ascension then a transformation. I don't like the look personally and it feels like a big xivkin rather then a vampiric creature. Id rather the "transformation" fully envelop your character in shadows and give them piercing red eyes and you fully embrace your scion powers. But again this is more of a personal opinion but i just don't like the transformation as is, I don't mind if it was an ascension thing but a transformation makes it feel like too much of a vampire lord and not a blood scion

8.How does feeding feel overall?
I really like the animations but i would prefer an option to feed at close range as well and have it trigger the physical bite animations, but as others have pointed out blade of woe overrides feed at close range, if there was a way to separate the key binds or to suppress blade of woe in the menu somehow it would allow us that option.


Overall i like the direction you have taken with vampire. I was in the camp at first to the drawbacks being far too harsh but they seem to be in a ok spot atm, need some tweaking here and there but the drawbacks work as long as you plan to use the vampire skills. But again in my above mention, the cost increase at stage 0 is the main thing it needs adjusted. Werewolf can easily "abandon" werewolf and play there class with the only drawback being that, their skill points aren't being utilized and they take some more damage from fighter guild skills, and that only apply to pvp. While vampires suffer the same+cost increase, seems a tad much since the only passive active is the sneak one, 5% cost increase does not seem like a fair trade for faster sneak time and speed.

P.S. would it be possible to change the drain skill to become a viable ranged attack and not a utility skill? i know people are suggesting convert eviscerate into a ranged skill and i don't agree with that, but i see drain still as a niche/useless skill and could be better suited to be a ranged damage skill for vampire.

XomRhoK

Oathunbound wrote: »

P.S. would it be possible to change the drain skill to become a viable ranged attack and not a utility skill? i know people are suggesting convert eviscerate into a ranged skill and i don't agree with that, but i see drain still as a niche/useless skill and could be better suited to be a ranged damage skill for vampire.

Actually they increased the range of Drain to 22 meters, but decreased the damage in half. I am, personally, don't like increased range on this ability, it's too far away from target, at maximum range it's too "unrealistic" to drain, feels off. Maybe Drain need increased range from 12 meters on live servers to around 15 meters to be more reliable, but not more, in my opinion.

Delpi

I can see that at stage 4 we're still as ugly as hell... and tattoos are still almost invisible. ¿? I watched a youtube video that shows it was fixed some weeks ago, but now, in my pts account this problem persisted. Are you going to implement it in the next patch?

Sahidom

Dear ZOS.

The Scion ultimate transformations new forms should be skins or outfit overlays on-top of the existing character's appearance. Both should be instant changes versus the transformation animation effect; we're already vampires where the "potency" of our vampire stage (stage 5) should be more fluid e.g. activating the Ultimate skill.

Both are ugly. Please do something more unique than repurposing the Necromancer's graphics with a new graphic skin. You already have language to apply skins and outfit overlays. Gameplay fluid-ness and the fact you're already a vampire that shouldn't add an unnecessary step when using their Ultimate.

Reconsider the -/1s cost rate for Blood Frenzy. Maybe -/2s with consideration that you effectively -100% the character's health recovery. Whether the character stays at Stage 1 or moves to Stage 4 which means any non-vampire heals costs more, and in PVP scenarios, lends them some time to line up the skull usage with a burst combo. This is a high maintenance skill to continually channel Blood Frenzy e.g. constant refreshing HOT that consumes +x% increased cost on them. The -/2s cost change affords some +x% increase cost mitigation in PVE and lends time in PVP content play.

Mesmerize skill does not stun all enemies. The tool-tip description should state which NPC enemies the skill effects. For instance, it does not effect Elite non-boss enemies. This is a trivial detail about the skill but worth noting when the skill will fail to perform.

The Vampire Drain morph Drain Vigor effect that restores 5% of the character's missing Stamina may need consideration to be increased to 8/10% from 5%. Maybe reduce the healing received so the skill holds some value for Stamina users or tether the increase difference based on the Stage of the vampire e.g. +1% per Stage above Stage 1.

As for the Feed passive, and it's associated +x% cost increases to non-vampire skills. The Stage 4 increase was noticeable, however, with one Infused Cost Reduction glyph made the cost increase more manageable. I feel the cost increased across the board is a build consideration when applying vampire to the character. The base +5% was not a detrimental cost increase, and no different than players using New Moon Acolyte set and it's associated cost increase.

The skill cost increase will be more detrimental in PVP content play where combat situations are more dynamic than PVE content play where you have more latitude to manage resources. Risk versus Reward scenarios for vampire PVP builds. The drink change to Bloody Mara drinks does allow a player character can transition between Stage 1 and 4 instantly. This will allow either Stamina or Magic builds to benefit from both ends of the spectrum, as needed.