Update 26 Combat Preview

Fischblut

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

This is the biggest spit into the face of all old players I've seen so far in this game (even worse than frozen CP progression)

I do normal MA with low level characters to level them - now this easy leveling content will reward weapons which we've earned in veteran arena. And weapons which we've earned in veteran arenas will become useless, so now we have to earn them again...

I wonder, do some people seriously plan to refarm all veteran arena weapons when this update goes live? Even though these weapons will be nerfed someday again?

MagToast

Ok, even though i previously said, that i thought that the introduction of imperfected/perfected vMA/(DSA) are probably a good idea i have since reconsidered this stance for two reasons:

1. Let me start with the less important one. I think the effects, that the weapons provide, cater more to players with more skill, better rotation, weaving, and optimized builds. Most prominent would be the infamous MA inferno staff, wich adds DMG to your light and heavy attack performed against enemies within your wall of elements. To even profit from this bonus payers will need to skills:

• decent rotation (decent uptime and placement of their wall of elements)
• good LA weaving

Both of which are the essential skills, that also make the major difference between a novice player and an advanced player. I get the point, that novice players will see builds by popular players e.g. Alcast, acquiring all the gear that is BiS as far as it is easy. Then they will go to a dummy and will be disappointed in not even seeing 50% of the dps top players can deal. And i get, why they will be blaming it on not having BiS gear all around, but the fact is, that the two points above will improve way more then just slaping on a MA inferno. I would even go so far as to say in the hands of a novice player who can not do LA weaving using an MA staff would in fact lower their dps in comparison to a second Mother sorrow stuff.

2.Also letting almost BiS ( imperfected weapons) drop on nMA will demotivate novice players to ever go for vMA and i would like to argue why that would be even worsen for the skill/dps gap you are trying to close with this change. As long as you do not cheese vMA by using builds like the infamous "One Bar Sorc", progressing trough vMA, and finally getting the fist clear is probably one of the biggest step an player will ever make in this game. It teaches you so much about crating your own build and mastering it. It teaches you so much about awareness in terms of mechanics & how to overcome them, when to dodge, when to block, how to manage your recourses, how to move, how to stack adds, how to LA weave to maximize your DPS....
And yes i get, why it is hard, learning all these things requires time and is even frustrating at times, in fact my first clear took me almost 3 month, because i often got so frustrated, that i would stop for days. Also you for the fist time players will not have a tank to soak most of the damage and mechanics and no healer, who keeps them up even if they are to lazy to go out of an AOE. But after i finally got my first clear i felt so accomplished, it was just amazing, and u know what, i did my second clear the same day in one sitting.
In summary i think making new players "suffer" through vMA is important´for them to transition from being an average player to being a good or even top player. "Disencouraging" players from doing so will even widen the skill gap, you are trying to close with this change.

LegendaryArcher

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

I just subscribed to ESO+ like 10 minutes ago. Why didn't I read this post prior to it? I feel like I got scammed for 35 € now. Ah well, back to WOW then.

jecks33

MagToast wrote: »

Most prominent would be the infamous MA inferno staff, wich adds DMG to your light and heavy attack performed against enemies within your wall of elements. To even profit from this bonus payers will need to skills:

• decent rotation (decent uptime and placement of their wall of elements)
• good LA weaving

People cried because they can't have a vMa inferno staff, because "veTeRaN mAElsTrom iS tOo diFFiculT". Now noobs can have the same weapon i've farmed in over 130 runs (over 400 to wear all my toons) and it doesn't matter if they don't know how to use it, they will have their staff and keep casting 25 cristal fragments or their bow and keep spamming light attack x90. Happily.
The spit in the face is for me, for you and for all the player who spent hours and hours of their lifetime to farm these weapons and now we have to redo everything with noobs on facebook who laugh hard (take a look at fb groups...)

MagToast

jecks33 wrote: »

The spit in the face is for me, for you and for all the player who spent hours and hours of their lifetime to farm these weapons and now we have to redo everything with noobs on facebook who laugh hard (take a look at fb groups...)

Yeah, i know and i already made a post about that, this was just a post against, why even from the devs perspective the introduction of imperfected ones would be a bad idea in therms of skill/dps gap.

Elsonso

jecks33 wrote: »

MagToast wrote: »

Most prominent would be the infamous MA inferno staff, wich adds DMG to your light and heavy attack performed against enemies within your wall of elements. To even profit from this bonus payers will need to skills:

• decent rotation (decent uptime and placement of their wall of elements)
• good LA weaving

People cried because they can't have a vMa inferno staff, because "veTeRaN mAElsTrom iS tOo diFFiculT". Now noobs can have the same weapon i've farmed in over 130 runs (over 400 to wear all my toons) and it doesn't matter if they don't know how to use it, they will have their staff and keep casting 25 cristal fragments or their bow and keep spamming light attack x90. Happily.
The spit in the face is for me, for you and for all the player who spent hours and hours of their lifetime to farm these weapons and now we have to redo everything with noobs on facebook who laugh hard (take a look at fb groups...)

So, I think that what you are trying to say here is that you don't want them to do the normal/perfected gear because then there would be a normal version of what you have, presumably, what you have now, and the players doing the content have not worked to get it. I am just trying to put this in context with previous comments. Before this, you were just concerned about having to re-run to get the perfected gear.

Sergykid

stop acting like your whole gameplay is based on the 1k magicka or whatever the bonus the weapons will have. If your entire character is based on 1k dps then you were weak even without it anyway.

DaniArrow

It's just plain out BS to not upgrade the weapons already earned. We practiced and tried until we finally beat it and now every other guy who just walks through on normal gets the same stuff?

I run 6 vMA staffs on my mag DDs and 6 vMA/Master bows on my stam DDs, I'm certainly not going through another 100 runs of vet Maelstrom to get all these weapons that I already earned again... screw that.

Octopuss

Vicinia wrote: »

Octopuss wrote: »

Someone explain the perfected weapons to me.
So there are normal, veteran AND then perfected versions of the same items already somewhere? Huh?

When Wrothgar came out, the weapons were perfected. I don't know when (I was on a break) they stripped the weapons of those perfected bonuses to what they are today. They are taking those same perfected bonuses and having perfected weapons drop from vMA when they update the loot table. Right now weapons only drop from vMA and they're the best vMA weapons available.

After these changes, the weapons we have now will be non-perfected and will drop in nMA. And we'll have to all farm vMA for the updated weapons.

So vMA will drop weapons with slightly better stats than today? Do I understand it correctly?

Varana

Maybe, maybe not. We'll probably know soon-ish when the PTS will be up.

And yes, having a Maelstrom staff won't make players magically better. But it doesn't hurt, either. So whatever.

The point, at least for me, is the rather serious disconnect between the developers and how their game is perceived by the people playing it.

I did the arenas on veteran mode, and I got the thing-that-drops-from-vet. When they change the-thing-that-drops-from-vet, I expect them to change my thing-that-drops-from-vet, as well. Because it is the thing-that-drops-from-vet.
I don't care whether and what they add to normal mode; that's not the issue. They change what you get from veteran mode - they don't add something that drops from there, they don't change any prerequisite of getting the thing-that-drops-from-vet, they change exactly that thing.

And the second issue is the stupid randomness. I don't mind that out of sympathy for poor Brian Wheeler whose arena doesn't get played*, we all do a pity run of vMA. But that's it. I don't find wasting my time for dozens of runs to drop the thing-that-drops-from-vet again a worthwhile endeavour.

* I'd somehow doubt that this is even the case, for vMA. People are in there all the time. And with regard to vDSA, there are other reasons for it.

TheMaos

ELawlis wrote: »

Another question: why so much focus on spell penetration? At least for PVE with a semi-optimized group its a less than needed set stat. Valkyn Skoria is great with health for newer players who can’t get a DLC monster set yet, and the health bonus helps them. If penetration is becoming important, it needs to be added to the base UI for console players.

They aint adding pen to the stat bar.
These are the people who have still yet to create a search bar for you bank or inventory

Major_Lag

TheMaos wrote: »

ELawlis wrote: »

Another question: why so much focus on spell penetration? At least for PVE with a semi-optimized group its a less than needed set stat. Valkyn Skoria is great with health for newer players who can’t get a DLC monster set yet, and the health bonus helps them. If penetration is becoming important, it needs to be added to the base UI for console players.

They aint adding pen to the stat bar.
These are the people who have still yet to create a search bar for you bank or inventory

Lol, yeah - who cares about totally "irrelevant" things, such as:

• being able to see your offensive stats,
• being able to see your defensive stats,
• having a sane user interface design,
• not needing a dozen addons just to make managing your equipment slightly less miserable,
• etc.

/s

kind_hero

So, most of the comments here are from people who do vMA blindfolded ..

I am one of those many casual players who struggled alot to finish vMA and I have only completed it a few times. I was lucky enough to get an infused lightning staff, which is to me like a great prize. It's not inferno, but I am not a pro player, so for me getting the lightning one was awesome.

vMA is really something that I don't want to farm again. It is one thing to do it because you want to test yourself, to get a better score, to test a build, but going after an item that you really want is quite draining, because of the RNG.

I can only see this change as fair if you make the arena harder, so perfected means getting through improved/upgraded content. Otherwise, just create a token system or use transmutation crystals to upgrade these weapons to perfected (even though, they should be upgraded by default). I see the majority of the players here in agreement that not upgrading the existing weapons is a bad decision, showing disrespect towards the players who worked hard to get their weapons. Pro players have it easier, since for they the chance of completing a vet arena in 40 minutes is greater. For an average player, a new run means many hours spent maybe for nothing.

The worst issue is that you are giving the veteran weapons on normal. If the difference will be 1k magicka or something like that, it will be a really bad decision. Leave that content as it is, and make a new arena like vMA! Or at least add some currency system.

I am baffled on how easy the devs of this game can do 180 turns. It's like you are going back to the drawing board with each DLC... really... some changes come up out of the blue. People keep telling you.. fix the game, the performance, make classes unique and fun, make combat rewarding, and so on... yet you go and change stuff that does not bother 99% of the player base!

Maulkin

zyk wrote: »

I was upset at first, but then I realized why I barely play ESO now. Nothing is sacred to these devs. They'll happily change/devalue what you already have and make you replay the same content hundreds of times, even 5+ years after it was introduced.

Your investment in time and money means nothing to them. I can't wait for them to add monster sets to normal dungeons and Perfected monster sets to vet dungeons without upgrading your current ones and making you regrind all the exact same vet dungeons for the sets you already have plus one extra stat. It's gonna be hilarious.

On top of the massive disrespect towards the players, you also have to put up with continuously declining game performance especially after they perform "performance improvements".

Paying money for ESO right now is basically paying to be trolled. That's not even opinion, that's factual.

BoxFoxx

It'd be cool if Werewolves had a strong counter debuff to enemy invisibility.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I dont understand (honest question)
What you all farmed was the base weapon and now the add a new perfected version of the weapon. You never farmed that version of it, so why should they give the item you never farmed?

Sanguinor2

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dont understand (honest question)
What you all farmed was the base weapon and now the add a new perfected version of the weapon. You never farmed that version of it, so why should they give the item you never farmed?

We farmed the vet reward of maelstrom Arena. Perfected weapons will be the vet reward of maelstrom Arena. Our vet rewards will get turned into normal mode rewards.

MLGProPlayer

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

I just subscribed to ESO+ like 10 minutes ago. Why didn't I read this post prior to it? I feel like I got scammed for 35 € now. Ah well, back to WOW then.

You can ask for a refund.

Wonks

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dont understand (honest question)
What you all farmed was the base weapon and now the add a new perfected version of the weapon. You never farmed that version of it, so why should they give the item you never farmed?

It isn't hard. Players completed veteran arena content and are upset that their rewards are being added to nMA/nDA while a 'Perfected' version of the gear they already earned is being added to vMA/vDA. The rewards they earned are effectively being downgraded. Couple that with the implicit nod by developers that we'll just suck it up and reacquire arena weapons and you've got what we see in this thread.

An update outlining some of the year's first promising changes for the game totally overshadowed and ignored due to one arbitrary and insufferable design decision.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,
We had to remove some posts due to violating our rules around baiting and bashing. Please keep your posts constructive and civil. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.

Azurya

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Finally a reason to re-do this funtastic grind (end sarcasem)...................

MLGProPlayer

Azurya wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Finally a reason to re-do this funtastic grind (end sarcasem)...................

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO

Wonks

As others have mentioned, should we now expect Perfected variants for monster helms?

If we follow this new standard of making special items more accessible that is likely the next step. Some of those sets are difficult to acquire! Better punish those who completed the content (by expecting them to refarm the gear they already earned) and make the 'base' variants more acquirable on normal difficulty.

Nvisible6

Perfected and non Perfected. I would only agree if we could choose the loot at the end at a vendor for completing vMA etc. The rng in this game is worse than at the Casino's... But this is a game played for fun by ppl and still, we get the worst loot you can possibly imagine. What fun that is... Look, I like to do vMA and I will get my perfected gear. But for my limiting time in a week I can spend on gaming it'll take me another half year to get the weapons I need. Half a year... every week 1 run... wait that will take me a year probably. For content I can already do now for weapons I already have ... now. So, you guys wanna change stuff all the time.. Good for you, bad for us. At least meet us in the middle. Don't just throw out new *** and say that's how it will be and so we have spoken cased closed. So if we could just choose our drops the first 5 times or so after completing vMA, we would not be forced to spend the little time ppl like me have for a year farming. That would be great. Well, that would be a solution for me to be fare. Just the first 5 times, we can get to choose our vMA drop. Is that too much to ask? Would be a great solution tho... hint, hint, hint. Cheers

SirMewser

I like warning new players not to invest too much into the game because once you get that thing you worked so hard for, it will be passed on to loot tables in easier content and you'll be stuck with a degraded versions with no compensation nor credit, for loyalty players.

John_Falstaff

I should've stocked up on popcorn for today, because I also feel that ZOS won't let nMA weapon remain BiS for most content in the game, so our vMA (now nMA) bows and staves would be nerfed versions of what's on live.

Yes, getting invested in ESO is a recipe for disaster.

Elsonso

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I should've stocked up on popcorn for today, because I also feel that ZOS won't let nMA weapon remain BiS for most content in the game, so our vMA (now nMA) bows and staves would be nerfed versions of what's on live.

After my recent shopping trip, my local Costco is sold out.

nbennet

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

This really stinks for those of us who have spent materials and transmute crystals on VMA weapons that we have already acquired in Vet mode. Please reconsider.

shaielzafine

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I should've stocked up on popcorn for today, because I also feel that ZOS won't let nMA weapon remain BiS for most content in the game, so our vMA (now nMA) bows and staves would be nerfed versions of what's on live.

Yes, getting invested in ESO is a recipe for disaster.

Yep. That's the one thing I keep noticing after the lead combat dev does changes. It doesn't matter how much time or effort you put into your builds, they don't care. I guess there's no point to buying Greymoor if they will make me re-farm vMA all over again.

Lime923

Are we going to get an update to this, or are they just hoping we go away and forget about it?