Update 26 Combat Preview

BennyButton

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

It looks stickied at the top of the combat category to me. Not sure what the issue is.

It was stickied on the "Recent" page before but isnt anymore, atleast not for me.

This is exactly what they did. They're trying to quietly sweep it under the rug now that something new to discuss was released. @ZOS_BrianWheeler it has been essentially a week - think it's time for you to respond!

reiverx

Did anyone in this thread actually talk about the combat preview stuff?

Wonks

No, it was overshadowed entirely by the arena weapon goof.

terrasight

Dominionix wrote: »

The silence from ZOS in this thread is deafening.

Not silent, i got a pm with the message that my post here in this one where i'm saying that i left my guilds and uninstalled the game cause of all this whats going on was deleted. gg, thats how it works zos

Varana

reiverx wrote: »

Did anyone in this thread actually talk about the combat preview stuff?

Yeah, like two or three people said something about the crit changes in PvP.

Lime923

The lack of communication is ridiculous.

Shantu

Lime923 wrote: »

The lack of communication is ridiculous.

Honestly, do you really expect anything else? Think of all the grinding and RGN in this game. Keeping people engaged is how these MMO developers make their money. Disgruntled combat players barely touch the revenue stream compared to the rich housewives who think nothing of dropping several hundred dollars on pixeled furniture for their new pretend house. They know the crap storm that comes with their decisions will eventually fade and everyone will slowly return to their normal grindy little selves. The only real protest we have is to simply not re-grind for these perfected weapons (which don't really seem worth it anyway). But they know that most people MUST have the best so they'll be back at it sooner or later. What ZOS does isn't about doing the right thing. It's about doing the thing that ultimately proves profitable.

So hooray for those who couldn't complete vMA. You'll now have access to the weapons. For the rest of us, we'll just have to suck it up in silence like every other decision we disagree with.

iKillElves4Septims

@ZOS_BrianWheeler cancelling eso+ until someone answers

colossalvoids

terrasight wrote: »

Dominionix wrote: »

The silence from ZOS in this thread is deafening.

Not silent, i got a pm with the message that my post here in this one where i'm saying that i left my guilds and uninstalled the game cause of all this whats going on was deleted. gg, thats how it works zos

Yeah those pms were very vocal actually.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,
We had to remove some posts due to violating our rules around baiting. Please keep your posts constructive and civil. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.

silvereyes

terrasight wrote: »

Dominionix wrote: »

The silence from ZOS in this thread is deafening.

Not silent, i got a pm with the message that my post here in this one where i'm saying that i left my guilds and uninstalled the game cause of all this whats going on was deleted. gg, thats how it works zos

Quitting threads are specifically disallowed in the forum guidelines. I guess they lumped your single comment into that category. Lame.

Etrella

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

It completely destroys my mind to think that a weapon dropped from nMA is now far more powerful than one dropped in VAS HM (Specifically the Staff)

Like, was there really any thought into this??? Please change my mind, because as of now, it just looks like you are changing things just for the heck of it.

BennyButton

Etrella wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

It completely destroys my mind to think that a weapon dropped from nMA is now far more powerful than one dropped in VAS HM (Specifically the Staff)

Like, was there really any thought into this??? Please change my mind, because as of now, it just looks like you are changing things just for the heck of it.

Hi Etrella, just wanted to let you know that the one that will drop in nMA is the one that currently drops in vMA and the one that will drop in vMA will be one that adds 100 spell pen

edit: i actually misread your post, my apologies.

Etrella

BennyButton wrote: »

Etrella wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

It completely destroys my mind to think that a weapon dropped from nMA is now far more powerful than one dropped in VAS HM (Specifically the Staff)

Like, was there really any thought into this??? Please change my mind, because as of now, it just looks like you are changing things just for the heck of it.

Hi Etrella, just wanted to let you know that the one that will drop in nMA is the one that currently drops in vMA and the one that will drop in vMA will be one that adds 100 spell pen

Yea I know. I am concerned regarding the huge nerf to the AS Staff, which completely renders it useless. This change makes the current VMA staff which will drop in normal, a more powerful and desirable weapon. That simply just doesn't make sense to me, but then again 3/4 of what they do NEVER makes sense.

Sergykid

Sergykid wrote: »

stop acting like your whole gameplay is based on the 1k magicka or whatever the bonus the weapons will have. If your entire character is based on 1k dps then you were weak even without it anyway.

posting this again for hopes i can clarify it. Does your gameplay stand in a small one piece bonus?

BennyButton

Etrella wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

Etrella wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

It completely destroys my mind to think that a weapon dropped from nMA is now far more powerful than one dropped in VAS HM (Specifically the Staff)

Like, was there really any thought into this??? Please change my mind, because as of now, it just looks like you are changing things just for the heck of it.

Hi Etrella, just wanted to let you know that the one that will drop in nMA is the one that currently drops in vMA and the one that will drop in vMA will be one that adds 100 spell pen

Yea I know. I am concerned regarding the huge nerf to the AS Staff, which completely renders it useless. This change makes the current VMA staff which will drop in normal, a more powerful and desirable weapon. That simply just doesn't make sense to me, but then again 3/4 of what they do NEVER makes sense.

agreed, yes, because the vAS weapons only drop from vAS+2 which is not something anyone can do, but who are we to question the decisions of Zenimax Online Studios? We'Re NoT dEvElOpErS

The_Lex

You shouldn’t be surprised if the devs refuse to comment. The Morrowind sustain nerfs received a similar outpouring of anger from the player base, but it didn’t make a difference.

Dojohoda

I don't have time to get the vdsa and vma weapons again. It makes me sad that my current vet weapons will become normal weapons.

silvereyes

The_Lex wrote: »

You shouldn’t be surprised if the devs refuse to comment. The Morrowind sustain nerfs received a similar outpouring of anger from the player base, but it didn’t make a difference.

I would argue that the decision to upgrade or not upgrade existing arena weapons is a special case, distinct from any past or present disagreements between the community and the devs about combat changes or gear level changes.

• Retrofitting a newer tiered reward system (perfected drops) into older unchanged content is a one-time, unique operation. It doesn't set any sort of precedent for entitlements for future new rewards that may be introduced for old content (e.g. new motifs/skins/mounts) that a person would have had no expectation of earning at the time they beat the content before.
• It has no intrinsic affect upon balance, gameplay, or the direction the devs want to take the game. It is primarily a customer service decision.
• Weapon sets have uniquely bad RNG. Unlike normal sets that drop in all pieces that can be mixed and matched, weapon slots are fixed. The loot tables also select from 6 sets with 17 unique drops, as opposed to the normal 3 sets per dungeon or overland zone.

The disagreements we've had in the past about gameplay and balance changes are certainly relevant, don't get me wrong. I think history has often proven that the community was right to object, when the changes ZOS implemented ended up having the opposite effect that they wanted. The Morrowind sustain nerfs were one example. Guild trader multi-bidding was another. If you want to get into specific skill, passive and gear changes, there are countless examples.

Those examples, however, all revolve around game-building. At the end of the day, it's totally ZOS' prerogative to have final say about how they want to build the game. At a certain point, if they fundamentally disagree, there's not going to be much gained from rehashing the disagreement.

I do take heart from the recent experimental HA/LA PTS feedback cycle. The fact that ZOS ended up pulling the proposed changes from Update 26 in direct response to community feedback was a breath of fresh air compared to what we usually see with changes just getting rammed through. I think that could be an excellent model for future large changes.

cmdsniper

This is the final straw for me. I'm tired of always being let down with each patch release with hopes that the game will finally work correctly. Instead, what we get is a more broken game with each patch release, and now they're expecting us to regrind old content for something we invested so much time in already to get our drops. I have no issues clearing VMA every week, but that's beside the point. I'm not going to continue to support them with their terrible decisions and lack of progress towards a functional game(Getting stuck in load screens when a keep flips and you end up dead, unable to break cc's, unable to bar swap, the awful sprint bug, random frozen black holes in the middle of cryo, and how could we forget about that horrible lag). No thanks, I've been waiting for a long time now for things to get better. I'm going to take my crown crate and ESO+ money and go elsewhere.

What makes this decision even more hypocritical is the fact that they're going to retain the experience gained for current vampire skills, but for VMA and master weapons, they're like NAH.... It's very petty for them to force everyone to regrind old content for 100+ hours to reobtain every drop they already have it. This decision is the ultimate slap in the face. I honestly don't think they care.

Giljabrar

@ZOS_GinaBruno been seeing a lot of this outrage creep to places outside of your mods damage control.

This is hurting the game. Old players are getting shafted, and when we see somebody ask "is this game worth playing in 2020" how can we say yes when you treat you playerbase like this without a single response.

Everybody is suspecting intentional shafting to get rid of us vocal forum players so you can shift your focus onto milking the wallets of new players.

Big issue there pal, we're the ones who advertise your game FOR you when we enjoy it. So unless you're making a last ditch cash grab before the death rattles start hitting, it would be pretty great for you to actually respect your playerbase, and AT LEAST give us a response.

silvereyes

cmdsniper wrote: »

What makes this decision even more hypocritical is the fact that they're going to retain the experience gained for current vampire skills, but for VMA and master weapons, they're like NAH....

There are plenty of examples in the past where they ended up doing customer-servicey things to make people happy after major reworks to existing content:

• Refunding all CP after scaling changes and constellation changes with Morrowind
• Providing 1g respecs after major skill line changes
• Refunding all racial passive skill points and offering 3 free race change tokens with Wrathstone Update 21

I'm really hoping they can do something similar with vet arena weapons.

Edit: oh, and the free character slot that came with Elsweyr was excellent as well!

xaraan

It wouldn't even be hard to do a better job if they didn't want to upgrade:

Make nMA drop CP150 weapons
Make vMA drop CP160 weapons
Make a no-death drop Perfected CP160 weapons (though that would require them IMO to polish up performance issues and not cost people their good run b/c of a zos desync)

And then do the same for DSA weapons

I think then folks could see the amount of work needed to parse through every run that was a no-death just to figure out which weapon dropped to upgrade to perfect isn't worth the effort and players would take it a little less as a slap on the face. Though I also don't have problems if they wanted to do that for players if they had an easy way to figure it out. I'd always look for a way to hook up players, especially of early runners - those guys that farmed vMA the first year etc. It wouldn't help me, but that's no reason not to take care of your players.

I'd still like to see a little undaunted plunder added in addition.

silvereyes

xaraan wrote: »

Make nMA drop CP150 weapons

The power difference between CP150 enchants and CP160 is so large, this isn't really a reward, is it? I think I'd rather have a CP160 crafted set.

silvereyes

xaraan wrote: »

Make a no-death drop Perfected CP160 weapons <snip> And then do the same for DSA weapons

Dear gods, no.

xaraan wrote: »

I'd still like to see a little undaunted plunder added in addition.

Yes please.

Elsonso

Giljabrar wrote: »

Everybody is suspecting intentional shafting to get rid of us vocal forum players so you can shift your focus onto milking the wallets of new players.

It is nothing so complicated. My long standing theory is that they just don't feel that we need to know. It is plainly obvious that this is what they want to do. (Edit: I did want to mention that they could still say something, but they have had time and have not exercised this option, so my gut feel is that they won't unless they have good news.)

Spearpoint

It's understandable that many players are not happy about replaying older content.
Oh well, I'll need to replay the arenas myself, to obtain the new perfected gear. Keyword here being "new".

It baffles me how folks seems to be intentionally disregarding the logic behind the need to complete actual content to be awarded with the actual new items.


To put things bluntly; are you expecting your current smart phone to be immediately upgraded upon the release of a newer model, just because you have previously gone through the effort of working your a$$ off to get it the first time?


Give them a finger and they'll take the whole arm.

corvair62

Why did they unsticky this post? Please @ZOS quit trying to bury our concerns.

silvereyes

Spearpoint wrote: »

To put things bluntly; are you expecting your current smart phone to be immediately upgraded upon the release of a newer model, just because you have previously gone through the effort of working your a$$ off to get it the first time?


Give them a finger and they'll take the whole arm.

Thank you for so eloquently re-stating the dismissive "stop being so entitled" argument with another bad mixed metaphor. I'm sure you'll find a sympathetic audience here that rewards you with many awesomes. /s

dwig

If they actually added new content then I would be fine with going through it to obtain new weapons. They did not.

Veteran Maelstrom Arena will be exactly the same as it was when I obtained all of my weapons the first time, and Veteran Dragonstar Arena will be the same as it was when I obtained all of my Master's weapons.

Requiring us to run these again to acquire veteran rewards is unconscionable.