So are you guys happy Vampire Lords/Bloodscions are coming to Eso?

Thevampirenight

Yes I'm happy about this.

idk wrote: »

@Thevampirenight

So what do we actually know about this? Do we have to use the ultimate to have use of the skills and passives like the WW or does this vamp line work like it does now and this is just a new ultimate? If it is a new ultimate then what does it do?

I ask because know you like to create threads that are really just speculative and entertainment value vs based on actual information.

They have not gone into such details, however I think it will not be will like werewolf and well if you want my speculative opinion . I do think most vampire abilities will work independently to the form. However we won't know until they release details on it for how it works or not. I doubt they would make every vampire ability have to have the vampire lord form active I think that would cause an uproar.
However from what we know there will be three new vampire powers. One will be a Dracula like hypnotic gaze. Another will be an eviscerating slash and one other vampire ability. I think the Hypnotic Gaze would be a power usable in humaniod and Vampire Lord form.

There is an npc ability some vampires have now in game and that is to summon Death Hounds could this mean the possibility of this being a player ability. It would be neat if the made it work like this when it comes to the powers line up. Here is my speculative guess on possible ways it will work. Just for abilties or line up and which forms they work in.

Blood Scion Ultimate-Batswarm worked into the ultimate a lot like Warden Bear with Bear summon and then bear special attack.
Vampiric Drain-Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Mist Form- Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Hypnotic Gaze-Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Eviscerating Slash possibly exclusive to Vampire Lord Form
Summon Death Hound- Maybe usable in Humanoid form and Vampire Lord form or exclusive to Vampire Lord Form.

The second possibility is it would look a lot like this.
Blood Scion Ultimate-Bat swarm not worked in. Maybe one Morph Summons Death Hounds just like the Werewolf Alpha Morph.
Vampiric Drain Humanoid Form and Vampire Lord Form.
Mist Form Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Hypnotic Gaze Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Eviscerating Slash- Vampire Lord Form
Bat Teleport or Bat Swarm Worked into an ability somehow- Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form.

I do hope abilities won't be made exclusive to the Vampire Lord form however it would be okay if the Eviscerating Slash attack was because vampires don't exactly have Claw Models in Humanoid form unless they add those so it would make sense that it would be Vampire Lord Exclusive.
There is one other possibility or guess to how they could do the skill line.
Blood Scion Ultimate- Eviscerating Slash Built in working a lot like the Warden Bears ability.
Vampiric Drain-Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Mist Form- Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Hypnotic Gaze-Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Bat Swarm Dash or Teleport- Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form
Summon Death Hounds- Humanoid and Vampire Lord Form

The Worst case scenario that the three new vampire abilties are exclusive to the Vampire Lord Form.
That means three abilties would require taking up that form to use I doubt they would do that but it is a possibility as well. I hope that isn't the case but well with them who knows. *Shrugs*

I do think they would try and make an incentive to take up the Form however and that is my speculation because they went out of their way to include the Vampire Lord Transformation. So for a little while it could be made to be a little stronger then their standards and over time reduced. Kinda like they did with Poisons when they added the ability to make them through the alchemy system. However I hope the incentive wouldn't be being made to take up the form to use many of the new abilties or even older abilities.

My hopes are that the Female Vampire Lord Form will be a lot better looking maybe prettier and maybe one morph gives the Form a Dress kinda like Lamae's. Since this form is a gift from Lamae and not Molag Bal that is how they are doing it from what they talked about. I do hope they go out of their way with the Female version of the Form.
I'm also hoping its more of a toggle ability however its possible that it will be a Timer based Transformation like Werewolf.

Hopefully Zenimax will give us more information and show off these new abilties soon. Or show case them so we can have an idea for what it will look like.

InaMoonlight

Other

Initially happy and exited - but let's see how it goes. I ALWAYS play vamp, so it'll either immensely enchance, or i'll cure and scuttle away whimpering

idk

Other

Thanks for the clarification that we are pretty much discussing mere guesses in this thread as I suspected.

I do look forward to the real information on the changes to the line, especially testing it on the PTS, so we can have a real discussion about how we like the changes or not instead of discussing what we no pretty much nothing about.

Thevampirenight

Yes I'm happy about this.

idk wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification that we are pretty much discussing mere guesses in this thread as I suspected.

I do look forward to the real information on the changes to the line, especially testing it on the PTS, so we can have a real discussion about how we like the changes or not instead of discussing what we no pretty much nothing about.

Well that is all we can till they give us actual information. Plus talk about how we are happy or not to happy or what people don't like about this or whatever they want to talk about.
The facts or what we were told is the skillline will be updated to to like the other skill lines once Greymoor goes Live. What we do know is that it will have five abilties and one ultimate. Blood Scion/Vampire Lord is replacing the Bat Swarm Ultimate. That it will be a base game update and the stage system will be flipped to having to feed to be more powerful. Also feeding animation will work a lot like the Dark Brotherhood Blade of Woe Skill and have actual bite on the neck and jump and suck blood animations once Greymoor goes live. So not everything in this thread is talking about Guesses.
Putting it in a numbered list.
1. Vampire Lord will replace Bat Swarm and will be what they refer to as a Blood Scion. So the Blood Scion is the name of the Ultimate. But it is a vampire lord transformation that is confirmed.
2. Vampires will gain three new Abilities giving them a full skill line.
3. Feeding will be required to be at peak Vampiric power. Instead of Starving like it is now. So you have to feed to keep up Stage Four instead of the other way around.
4. Feeding will make you uglier instead of Prettier Going by what they talked about or what was implied. Hope that isn't the case.
5. They are not changing the Vampire Models (Please Zenimax add fangs at least)
6. Paired animation system like Blade of Woe, able to jump on a foe and suck their blood by biting into their neck. Among other possible unique feeding animations.
7. They are not removing the Undeath passive not sure on the other passives.
This is the stuff that the Devs have told us about in some form.

Saubon

Mixed

Noxavian wrote: »

Unfortunately the rework is for people like you from using vamp just for passives. You'll most likely need to feed to keep them up, I would just keep in mind that the goal of the rework is so that people don't take vampire just for the passives. It's not going to be a free thing anymore.

Well, I'm not happy about this, but I think you are right. I guess they'll change it just to mirror WW form, we'll see if they can please those who really enjoy being vampires

Time to craft night's silence set

JanTanhide

Other

I'm not dropping another dime on expansions until the mass of issues is fixed. Why pay for an expansion that will have all the problems in it we currently see? No thanks.

SjornParadox52

Yes I'm happy about this.

Am i excited for the vampire lord you say? I say HELL YES! Eso's version of them are much more intimidating then the ones TESV and i love it!

KyleTheYounger

No not happy about this.

No.

I'll just go play my superior texture, AI and new worldspace modded version of Skyrim instead.

KyleTheYounger

No not happy about this.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

I think it's silly that everyone will become a vampire lord. A creature rebound for being rare and powerful.
"Vampire Lords are considered to be the paragon of the species. They are typically pure-blooded vampires who have either received their vampirism through another pure-blooded vampire or Molag Bal himself"

The player does get their vampirism from a pureblooded vampire Lamae is the reason why the player can become a vampire so it will be received from her. This is also the reason they are going to explain why player vampires are going to able to take on the form. So they pretty much got that covered.. The Pure blooded bit at least.

See THIS is why ESO gets the bad rap that it does from single player purists. [snip]

This is NOT how true blood vampires are created. According to canon TES lore, the first female vampire was a Nedic virgin. Who was stalked and brutally *.aped by Molag Bal, Daedric Prince of domination, *.ape and submission.

After this event, females in particular, were created by a brutal initiation ceremony and rite which involves non consensual intercourse with Daedric Prince Molag Bal. If the female victim survived (which was unlikely), then she would be transformed into a pure Daedric minion immortal known as a Vampire. And the males became Vampire lords. Consult Serena in modern day Skyrim in the Dawngaurd DLC for the history of this disturbing ritual.

Being bitten by a vampire NOT created by said Daedric ritual and contract with Bal, leads to Sanguinare Vampiris disease. Which produces an inferior stock of daedric minion vampires (there was a side quest in Skyrim which explained this distinction and canon lore on this). Which is basically what has existed as NPCs and players in ESO to date. Not including the ability to instantly transform into one by means of microtransaction in the store.

Instead of trying to stay true to 20+ years of established lore, the ZoS devs opted for the pop culture route aka the Lestat/Underworld/Ann Rice Vampire route. So now all ESO players need to become "true blood" vampires with this DLC, is to be bitten on the neck by a seductive succubus/beautiful female vampire trope determined by pop culture. O.K.

[edited for bashing]

Thevampirenight

Yes I'm happy about this.

KyleTheYounger wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

I think it's silly that everyone will become a vampire lord. A creature rebound for being rare and powerful.
"Vampire Lords are considered to be the paragon of the species. They are typically pure-blooded vampires who have either received their vampirism through another pure-blooded vampire or Molag Bal himself"

The player does get their vampirism from a pureblooded vampire Lamae is the reason why the player can become a vampire so it will be received from her. This is also the reason they are going to explain why player vampires are going to able to take on the form. So they pretty much got that covered.. The Pure blooded bit at least.

See THIS is why ESO gets the bad rap that it does from single player purists. [snip]

This is NOT how true blood vampires are created. According to canon TES lore, the first female vampire was a Nedic virgin. Who was stalked and brutally *.aped by Molag Bal, Daedric Prince of domination, *.ape and submission.

After this event, females in particular, were created by a brutal initiation ceremony and rite which involves non consensual intercourse with Daedric Prince Molag Bal. If the female victim survived (which was unlikely), then she would be transformed into a pure Daedric minion immortal known as a Vampire. And the males became Vampire lords. Consult Serena in modern day Skyrim in the Dawngaurd DLC for the history of this disturbing ritual.

Being bitten by a vampire NOT created by said Daedric ritual and contract with Bal, leads to Sanguinare Vampiris disease. Which produces an inferior stock of daedric minion vampires (there was a side quest in Skyrim which explained this distinction and canon lore on this). Which is basically what has existed as NPCs and players in ESO to date. Not including the ability to instantly transform into one by means of microtransaction in the store.

Instead of trying to stay true to 20+ years of established lore, the ZoS devs opted for the pop culture route aka the Lestat/Underworld/Ann Rice Vampire route. So now all ESO players need to become "true blood" vampires with this DLC, is to be bitten on the neck by a seductive succubus/beautiful female vampire trope determined by pop culture. O.K.

[edited for bashing]

Vampirism is unique in the lore for several reasons. It has never been nailed down and there is a lot of contradictory and also differant possible means they can come about where Lycanthropy has two. Hircine or another lycanthrope. From daggerfall to Eso.
Ways Vampires come about.
1. Magicial Curse by a wizard or Witch.- Daggerfall
2. Caused by an Artifact.-Daggerafall
3. Vaermina- Possibly the true creator of Vampirism strongly applied in Tes Morrowind and circumstantial evidence backs up. Not only by the true Molag Bal but the Witch that tends his shrine. Who also claims Molag Bal isn't the creator of Vampires.
4. Molag Bal- Possible Mythopoeic Origin made reality by the shaping of Mortals and their beliefs about Molag Bal.
There is thus two concepts the actual reality of the Divines and the Daedric Princes and the Divines/Daedra shaped by Mythopoeia. They are the same except a part of them are what mortals shaped into them because Mortal believe it however that isn't the truth. Many Mortals and Vampires Included believe in Molag Bal creating the First Vampire Lamae or doing other unspeakable acts to create the first vampires.

Because hes the closet thing reality has to a Devil figure. He gets blamed for a lot of stuff and this shapes his reality and actual reality however there is 16/17 Princes so what people believe might be the actual doing of other Princes. This shapes Molag Bal into the creator vampires even though he isn't actually the creator Mortal Belief made him so. So he is the creator of Vampires and the Creator of Lamae do to Mortal Belief shaping and altering reality to make him so. This mythpoeic role has been implied in Tes Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and Eso.

Mythopoeia is the term used to describe the power that myth and mortal belief have over the inherent reality of the Aurbis. A powerful force indeed, as it has shaped many of the most important events in history. The word itself sees it oldest usage by the Dwemer, likely Kagrenac himself, as the enchantments on the heart are described as “mythopoeic.”

5. Alchemy, This is shown and implied in Tes Oblivion with the Vampiric Blood Drinking Plants and shown to be an origin for vampires in Eso-Summerset.
6. Sangin strongly applied in a Khajiit lore book introduced with Dragonhold. For a possible Khajiit vampire Origin.
Here is what makes

7. Being turned or infected by another vampire the most common origin for many vampires.

Vampires have many different origins or possible variations that there is over 100 unique strains and kinds of vampire that is Tes Lore and the Reality actually has Mythopoia as a force and everything is written from that prospective and it shapes the actual reality of Elder Scrolls and that includes Vampires. At least they are not twilight vampires and whats so bad about anna rice and underworld?

Sources that hint Molag Bal isn't the actual creator of Vampirism and hints or strongly applies a Vaermina Origin or connection.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:A_Cure_for_Vampirism
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Derar_Hlervu
Elder Scrolls 3 Morrowind and Elder Scrolls 4 vampire nightmares.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vampirism
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vaermina
From the page there is this, and it really really resembles some of the vampire nightmares to a tee.
Vaermina's plane of Oblivion is Quagmire, which is described as a nightmare realm, where every few minutes reality shifts and becomes ever more horrifying. "A dark castle one moment, a den of ravening beasts the next, a moonlit swamp, a coffin where he was buried alive."[5]
Examples
You lay on your back, with a blissful feeling of peace swirling through your brain. Your every muscle is relaxed. There is no tension in any part of your body. You feel completely at ease. As your vision comes into focus, you notice others standing around you. As a man leans towards you, you recognize the robes of the Necromancer, and you see a glint of light from his scalpel as it begins to cut through your flesh.

In your dream, you open your eyes to a beautiful blue sky. The sun is bright, but you feel cool, even a bit damp. You draw a breath but begin to cough, as you expel blood and dirt that you've inhaled into your lungs. As you try to draw another, you see a shovel of dirt being emptied onto your face. The sunlight grows fainter as you view it through the soil that covers your body. You would scream, but your mouth fills with dirt before you can make a sound.

You dream of walking through the cool night air. Your body cries for blood, having not fed for days. Weakly, you stumble to a small pool. As you bend down to it, you see that it is not water in the pool, but warm, fresh blood, steam rising off of it. You lower your head to drink, but cannot open your mouth. As you realize in horror that your lips have been sewn shut, a pair of cold, white hands reach out from the pool and draw you under.

Sources that say Molag Bal is the creator or Mythopoeic origin point of the condition.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Opusculus_Lamae_Bal_ta_Mezzamortie
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manifesto_Cyrodiil_Vampyrum
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Volkihar
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Spawn_of_Molag_Bal
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_Vvardenfell

Sources for Alchemical Vampirism and Vampirism created by Mortal Means.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Amantius_Allectus'_Diary
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Norasea
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Haladan's_Research_Journal
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sapiarch_Soraturil
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay

Sources that hints a Sangiin Origin or connection possibly Mythopeoic for Khajiit Vampires

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Worldly_Spirits
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith:_The_Khajiit
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Enough_Kitten_Play!
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nisaazda's_Journal
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sangiin's_Thirst

Sources that talk about or hint the Mythopoeic nature of Elder Scrolls. Including an actual example of it in a quest.

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/mythopoeia-and-aurbic-consciousness
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/reman-i
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythopoeia linked this because the Elder Scrolls games themselves are used as an example of the concept. From the wikipedia.

The Elder Scrolls and its associated literature present a world where mythic visions of the world have mystical power, where archetypal myths are seen as playing out over and over again throughout history, where one can take on the identity of another by assuming ("mantling") the place that other has as a figure in the mythology of the world, and where the creation of myths can be seen as an act of mystically rewriting reality.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mythopoeia

For The Elder Scrolls, this is one of the more widely celebrated aspects of the series. There are several divergent mythologies, creation stories, and conflicting historical accounts of events, and of course All Myths Are True to at least some degree. Unlike many instances of the trope, this is presented as an actual in-universe force as well. The fabric of reality in the Elder Scrolls universe is malleable through various means of Reality Warping. Mortals can ascend to godhood and often perform Cosmic Retcons of their own pasts, which can bring together multiple timelines, regardless of conflicts. These and other divine events also tend to have Time Crashes as side-effects, which can further tamper with reality in various ways..

The quest in Eso where we basically do what is Myth Making or altering a story.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Witch_of_Silatar
This one bosmer has you alter the story of the this one Altmer, by going into her story and well you alter it to the point she remembers you and realizes her destiny. So we place ourselves in her own story and make ourselves a part of it. So we are mysticially rewriting reality so she can take her place as the wilder queen. There is a good reason why Elder Scrolls is considered using this principle because it actually does. That means Molag Bal and almost every single Deity are a byproduct of Mortal Belief. As that is how they shape it and going by the lore masters letter.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715
Tamriel is an unusual fantasy world setting in that it was created over time by many different contributors rather than by one single vision. At some point, the folks at Bethesda Game Studios realized that, for an interactive world, that patchwork background was actually a virtue rather than a liability, something that should be recognized and incorporated into Tamriel’s design. So the brain trust decided that all of the Elder Scrolls world’s history, mythology, and culture—its lore, in short—would be delivered, not from on high, but always from the viewpoints of characters who inhabited the world they were describing. And these descriptions might vary, or even contradict each other, leaving it up to the players to decide what was and wasn’t true.

This conundrem that is unique to vampires and this is posted on the Uesp.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bestiary_V

The exact nature of vampires is confusing, although the most appropriate and common is to define them as undead, in a strict technical sense they are not really. This one of the most powerful and feared of all the undead. While they are typically incredibly fast, gifted mages, and unnaturally strong, fear of vampires is abnormally great due to their ability to infect others, a fate often described as worse than death.

Even though they are not undead maybe the reality thinks they are at times. So they are undead but because people actually believe they are undead and not that they are undead in nature but undead by belief.

There is a chance that is a good possibility given the nature of Elder Scrolls reality. In my personal opinion. Since Mythopoeia actually does alter the reality.

barney2525

Other

Thevampirenight wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

was hoping for were-penguins


oh well

I personally was hoping they would do werebears. I had thought they might do a guild skill line or that sword and magic skill line. Or something this year like that personally but we are getting Blood Scions/Vampire Lords instead. So hopefully it will turn out well. Still kinda disappointed they have still not added playable werebears.

I played Minds Eye Theatre for a lot of years. Were-bears kick the snot out of Were-wolves. They would be really cool, but if done right, every stam character in the game would run to become a Were-bear.

IMHO

Thevampirenight

Yes I'm happy about this.

barney2525 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

was hoping for were-penguins


oh well

I personally was hoping they would do werebears. I had thought they might do a guild skill line or that sword and magic skill line. Or something this year like that personally but we are getting Blood Scions/Vampire Lords instead. So hopefully it will turn out well. Still kinda disappointed they have still not added playable werebears.

I played Minds Eye Theatre for a lot of years. Were-bears kick the snot out of Were-wolves. They would be really cool, but if done right, every stam character in the game would run to become a Were-bear.

IMHO

Saddly I don't think Zenimax is all that Interested in adding in other forms of Lycanthropes However I do really want to know their reasoning behind adding in the Vampire Lord. Because that really is something I'm interested in hearing.