Lets have an auction house please!!!

Grimm13

Uryel wrote: »

A pretty decent auction system was the one in City of Heroes.

Seller would set a minimum price at which they agree to sell their stuff. They cannot see the minimum price asked by other people, but they see the last few / average prices for the past few sales. Honestly can't remember which one of those two options was used, the game has been down for several years (even though some slick private server resurfaced recently, I haven't gotten around to trading there yet).

Buyer sees the same information, how much things sold for, and sets a buying price.

Then, the system works its magic in the background. If a buyer's offer matches a seller's asking price, a sale is done. Seller might even get more cash than they asked, if the buyer's offer was above what they asked. The houses takes a fee, of course.

That, or Guild wars 2 : you can see every listings for every price, and every buy offers for every price, making it very obvious when someone tries to manipulate the market. You can chose to undercut everyone for a guaranteed sale and less profit, or remain in the reasonable margin and wait a bit until it sells... And if you've got something VERY rare, you know it immediatly by the sheer lack of listings. Also, GW2 has a built-in "trade real cash currency for game money" that is pretty foolproof, while we have to use shady deals here, where one user delivers gold with no guarantee, or giofts crown items with no guarantee.

ZOS could learn alot from games that came before.

There is some merit in the CoH blind sell/buy method and some drawbacks. But would not be off the table for me.

dagrdagaz_5912

I would defenately prefer GW2's trading sytem over ESO's current one.

barney2525

Dawnblade wrote: »

All systems have drawbacks - the question is which system would provide the largest benefit to the majority of players with the least amount of drawbacks.

And while none of us can state with 100% certainty which system would provide the best marketplace for the majority of players, observations of markets in similar games and in the real world show that more liquidity and transparency generally lead to better outcomes than restrictive and opaque markets.

Of course such a question is moot with respect to ESO as the developer may have other considerations beyond the player, including a desire to use a clunky marketplace as a time sink, lack of ability to support a server wide marketplace from a technical perspective, to pure stubbornness and desire to be different for difference sake.

Exactly.

The only people that defend the current system are the minority of players that use it to their own benefit. They don't tell us the Real reasons why they want it kept in the game. They make up stuff they think Sounds reasonable and credible, like fictitious claims of how the GAH is so horribly manipulated. They benefit from the current system somehow and do not care what would be the Best system for the majority of the players.

Making up nonsense like 'all treasure found is character bound', sounds like a credible argument - except it is not true at all. Motifs are found in chests and can be sold, furnishings are found in chests and can be sold, rare mats can be found in chests and can be sold, recipes can be found in chests and can be sold, books can be found in chests and can be sold.

These are all items the Casual player can find, and potentially sell - IF allowed. But the casual player does not want to have to Pay to be in a guild just to put the occasional find up for sale. It makes no sense. But the people who benefit from this particular system do not care about this. They want the game to continue to cater to them.

So they invent the 'Lots of guilds have traders and have no fees or sales minimums'. To which I would normally say - Name them. Of course, they would respond that they can't do that here, as it could be considered 'shaming'. So it's just another false claim that they do not have to back up with Facts.

The best thing for the Majority of players is the GAH.

IMHO

Rave the Histborn

Grimm13 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

8. The player base shrinking is because of balancing/server issues/lack luster endgame/boring chapter content. It's not because of guild traders.

It is a combination of these things. Different people have different last straws depending on what they are interested in. There are more issues than what you list as well that people have.

It all comes down to enjoyment. Does a game still provide it or is it more frustrating when looking across the board of a game. No enjoyment then people move on. Another product is created that is more enjoyable people shift to it.

For a long time people have been saying they are frustrated with the trading system and express what will make it enjoyable. Some call this a beating a dead horse, what this really says is "That they acknowledge this a long standing problem that ZOS has yet to address".

" It all comes down to enjoyment. Does a game still provide it or is it more frustrating when looking across the board of a game. No enjoyment then people move on. Another product is created that is more enjoyable people shift to it."

These 70 IQ basic takes

"For a long time people have been saying they are frustrated with the trading system and express what will make it enjoyable."

It seems to be the same 5 people that also constantly talk about how WoW has an AH system. We get it, you meant to buy WoW but you don't have understanding of letters. It is also the same people saying that the AH system is a perfect system that has always worked 100% as intended, helps new players always and doesn't block them out, your AHs never sit there for months on end, and it has never caused inflation ever. It's like reading from people that have only played on MMO ever.

"Some call this a beating a dead horse, what this really says is "That they acknowledge this a long standing problem that ZOS has yet to address"

Which means that it's not a long standing problem if ZOS isn't addressing the system they made intentionally made like that.

Elsonso

.

buttaface wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

No you won't, and ignoring the glaring bandwagon in the above, what you -will- find in all these AH threads across games is hollow broscience platitudes not even amounting to junior college macro micro on the con side.

You may have to go a ways back, and it will involve reading through mind-numbing drivel, but you will probably find it. Unless you are trying to get someone to post something based on information that no one has available to them. Sometimes people ask for "proof" that they know no one can provide because they know that no player can know that information. They do this to try and "win" arguments.

Anyway, if your request is reasonable, what you want, or something close to what you want, is probably there. Pretty much everything has been said, and repeated, already. These threads have become less than worthless over time. The level of new content on this subject dropped each time a new thread was opened. With this thread, as with previous few threads, we are pretty close to ZERO new content.

Ri_Khan

I've said it before and I'll say it again...the trading system in this game is a joke and I avoid it like the Llodos plague. It is an utter waste of time. If I need something I'll grind for it, at least I can get some xp that way. If I want to sell something, there's plenty of npc vendors everywhere. It's unfortunate because I find decent gear that I don't need and could help other players out but it just gets tossed back into the void for a couple gold.

Aurie

Uryel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd be willing to be that, "most casual players," are too disengaged to worry about the market, much less aware enough about it to actually meaningfully participate.

Which is precisely why we need a central auction house.

People who only have a few things to sell a week, and only buy a few things every now and then, are mostly unable to do so nowadays. Because having a spot requires a fierce cash battle, most guilds will require a certain amount of sale or a donation. That keeps casuals out of the market entirely.

It's akin to arriving at a supermarket and being refused entry. "Sorry, sir, you can't shop here. You only ever spend about 100 bucks per week, and this store is reserved for high spenders, at least 500 bucks a day. Try another supermarket". Somewhere else : "Sorry sir, you need at least 200 bucks spent a week, here. But you can also purchase our weekly membership card for 50 bucks."

The current system keeps casual players out of it, unless you're very lucky with your trade guild. There are some who make do without requirements like that. And yet, on the global amount of players, casuals would provide a significant amount of goods, overall. Just one tiny bit per person, but it's the whole picture that counts.

This +1.

Speaking as a 'casual' player, who nevertheless plays every day almost without fail....I am not too disengaged (as @starkerealm seems to assume casual players are) to worry about the market. Far from it.

But as a casual player who has played ESO for several years, I don't have a lot to sell as I normally use whatever I acquire for my own characters. When I do want to sell stuff, I can't without either doing so via zone chat or joining a trading guild which is frankly not worth it for the occasional sale. I do, however, often need to buy things, and with the trading guild system this is a pain in the proverbial. As other people have pointed out, if you have limited time to play, the last thing you want to do is spend a lot of time traveling from place to place in the hope of finding what you are looking for, or getting a good deal.

So this is where a Global Trading House really works (and note that I do not call it an Auction House as in most MMOs there is no auction going on, in spite of what a lot of people on these forums seem to believe). It's quick to find what you are looking for and quick to put your stuff up for sale, and if you seriously think that GTHs consist of nothing but players undercutting each other by a couple of dimes....then what do you think happens in ESO trading guilds if not exactly the same thing? Why do you think there are such discrepancies between prices, and not just in different kiosks but also within the same ones? And yes in whichever system the cheapest is always going to sell and be bought first.

For sheer convenience amongst other reasons, which is what not all but most people want, give me a Global Trading House any day.

Raideen

Aurie wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd be willing to be that, "most casual players," are too disengaged to worry about the market, much less aware enough about it to actually meaningfully participate.

Which is precisely why we need a central auction house.

People who only have a few things to sell a week, and only buy a few things every now and then, are mostly unable to do so nowadays. Because having a spot requires a fierce cash battle, most guilds will require a certain amount of sale or a donation. That keeps casuals out of the market entirely.

It's akin to arriving at a supermarket and being refused entry. "Sorry, sir, you can't shop here. You only ever spend about 100 bucks per week, and this store is reserved for high spenders, at least 500 bucks a day. Try another supermarket". Somewhere else : "Sorry sir, you need at least 200 bucks spent a week, here. But you can also purchase our weekly membership card for 50 bucks."

The current system keeps casual players out of it, unless you're very lucky with your trade guild. There are some who make do without requirements like that. And yet, on the global amount of players, casuals would provide a significant amount of goods, overall. Just one tiny bit per person, but it's the whole picture that counts.

This +1.

Speaking as a 'casual' player, who nevertheless plays every day almost without fail....I am not too disengaged (as @starkerealm seems to assume casual players are) to worry about the market. Far from it.

But as a casual player who has played ESO for several years, I don't have a lot to sell as I normally use whatever I acquire for my own characters. When I do want to sell stuff, I can't without either doing so via zone chat or joining a trading guild which is frankly not worth it for the occasional sale. I do, however, often need to buy things, and with the trading guild system this is a pain in the proverbial. As other people have pointed out, if you have limited time to play, the last thing you want to do is spend a lot of time traveling from place to place in the hope of finding what you are looking for, or getting a good deal.

So this is where a Global Trading House really works (and note that I do not call it an Auction House as in most MMOs there is no auction going on, in spite of what a lot of people on these forums seem to believe). It's quick to find what you are looking for and quick to put your stuff up for sale, and if you seriously think that GTHs consist of nothing but players undercutting each other by a couple of dimes....then what do you think happens in ESO trading guilds if not exactly the same thing? Why do you think there are such discrepancies between prices, and not just in different kiosks but also within the same ones? And yes in whichever system the cheapest is always going to sell and be bought first.

For sheer convenience amongst other reasons, which is what not all but most people want, give me a Global Trading House any day.

Well said +1

I say, why not implement both and see which one the community favors. Put a limited duration on the GTH and on that expiration date return all the listed items through the players email. Or, if it is extremely popular with the community, then put a bulletin out how the guild trader will be changed.

They could always keep the guild traders for exclusive item sales that are obtained through hard core crafting, or trial running. Lets say a trial boss drops a rare furnishing item/mount and at least 60% of the raid was in the same guild, the raid leader could then list the item at a fixed price set by ZO$, when its sold all the members in that raid would get gold from the sale.

Their could be even more rare crafting items that can could be offered the same way.

I am not suggesting that my idea be an actual idea in game, I just use it to illustrate how the potential exists for BOTH types of trade systems to exist.

The everyday stuff we see, armor, weapons, wax, patterns, I mean literally everything we see in game today would be sold through the Global Trade System.

The rare/exotic stuff would be traded through the guild traders. Add some stuff for hard core crafters (I personally would not interject things that affect combat, but cosmetics) like crafters making mounts, rare house items like FULL houses to be placed on open properties etc.

Again, just brainstorming but there are other ways of keeping the system that appeals to the people it appeals to, and the global system that appeals to the every day player.

Too much of this world thinks in VS. Coke vs. Pepsi, Cowboys vs. Indians, Ford vs. Chevy, Red vs. Blue...I say we don't have to think that way.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A central AH is a win-win for everyone. There is literally no drawback to it.

Five thousand threads on this topic and you still have the gall to make that claim. The reason the guild trader system exists in the first place is because AHs are full of drawbacks that ZoS was trying to get away from.

Drawbacks that no one, EVER, in any of these threads has shown actually exist.

All The Best

This has been covered to death. If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

Oh I've read just about ALL of them, and contributed to most.

There's a lot of "this could happen" but absolutely no evidence at all that "this has happened".

Meanwhile the "this" everyone is afraid of - "cornering a market" - happens almost daily in the Guild Trade Kiosk system.

A system that is so dysfunctional it prevents the majority of the playerbase from engaging with that "market".

Next....


All The Best

Elsonso

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

There's a lot of "this could happen" but absolutely no evidence at all that "this has happened".

Not in this game, and that seems to be the important metric. If people bring data in from other games, or even personal experiences from other games, it does not seem to matter.

starkerealm

@Aurie if you're on PCNA, send me a mail ingame.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

There's a lot of "this could happen" but absolutely no evidence at all that "this has happened".

Not in this game, and that seems to be the important metric. If people bring data in from other games, or even personal experiences from other games, it does not seem to matter.

Which is the hilarious part. Because a lot of us have specific data about how GAH systems work, long term, from other titles, and people are like, "but it didn't happen in ESO, so that doesn't count." Of course it didn't happen in ESO, because the devs were aware of the pitfall and didn't make the same mistake again.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

There's a lot of "this could happen" but absolutely no evidence at all that "this has happened".

Not in this game, and that seems to be the important metric. If people bring data in from other games, or even personal experiences from other games, it does not seem to matter.

Which is the hilarious part. Because a lot of us have specific data about how GAH systems work, long term, from other titles, and people are like, "but it didn't happen in ESO, so that doesn't count." Of course it didn't happen in ESO, because the devs were aware of the pitfall and didn't make the same mistake again.

Oh I AM talking about Global AH in OTHER games.

EVERY other MMO I have played has one - and I have NEVER once seen any evidence at all of the calamity people like you claim exists.

I've seen people attempt to corner a market but in a market place where EVERYONE can be both a Seller AND a Buyer AT WILL it is effectively impossible to achieve.

I mean, if it is so common an occurrence it should be easy for you guys to present evidence of it actually happening - but so far no one has; wonder why - well the only obvious answer is because it doesn't actually happen.

Prove me wrong - present the evidence of it actually happening - or just admit the truth; you benefit from the broken Kiosk system so will tell any and every lie in the book to keep it that way.

All The Best

Glurin

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

EVERY other MMO I have played has one - and I have NEVER once seen any evidence at all of the calamity people like you claim exists.

Because it already happened. You're basically strolling around in the smoldering ruins while loudly proclaiming that there is no evidence that a disaster is going to happen. Even as irradiated, mutant survivors claw at your legs and beg for you to buy their stuff at about half what the vendor will give them for it.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Glurin wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

EVERY other MMO I have played has one - and I have NEVER once seen any evidence at all of the calamity people like you claim exists.

Because it already happened. You're basically strolling around in the smoldering ruins while loudly proclaiming that there is no evidence that a disaster is going to happen. Even as irradiated, mutant survivors claw at your legs and beg for you to buy their stuff at about half what the vendor will give them for it.

So you've got no evidence of it actually happening - well done.

2 of the games I am referring to I have played since the day they were launched (one I was in final pre-launch beta) - it never happened in those games either.

You know why - it doesn't actually happen.

If it did you'd all be throwing evidence at me; and you ain't.

All The Best

starkerealm

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

EVERY other MMO I have played has one - and I have NEVER once seen any evidence at all of the calamity people like you claim exists.

Because it already happened. You're basically strolling around in the smoldering ruins while loudly proclaiming that there is no evidence that a disaster is going to happen. Even as irradiated, mutant survivors claw at your legs and beg for you to buy their stuff at about half what the vendor will give them for it.

So you've got no evidence of it actually happening - well done.

No, we've, literally, watched it happen, multiple times.

The flaw in Glurin's analogy is that it suggests that you'd be able to understand what you're seeing as it unfolds. Clearly, that was overestimating how aware you are of market trends over an extended period of time.

buttaface

lordrichter wrote: »

You may have to go a ways back,

No, I don't. Because all the anti AH BS is drivel for reasons posted by others and myself and ignored, and the fact that no one in this thread can do anything but cite to some other nebulous feedback out there somewhere in support of their position evidences that nicely. There are obviously educated, experienced financial people in this thread, ALL of them on the pro central market/liquidity side, and that's exactly how these threads shape up on this topic everywhere in games where a publisher inflicts such unnecessary time sinks on players for its own benefit.

starkerealm

buttaface wrote: »

There are obviously educated, experienced financial people in this thread, ALL of them on the pro central market/liquidity side...

So, this would bad point to remind you that my bachelors degree required me to spend a fair amount of time digging through economics and economic policy?

Because it did.

darthgummibear_ESO

We'll never get an auction house, but it would be nice if they did something to combat the trade mafias which consistently control just about all the spots people actually use. Basically, the people who have the money now will always have the money because it's virtually impossible for anyone smaller to break in.

EatYourVegetables

I play multiple MMOs. Every time I leave ESO and go to one of the ones with a centralized trading system, its a breath of fresh air. And when I come back to ESO the distributed guild based trading system is a breath of foul, stinky, fart-like air.

Seriously, join a guild and pay dues every week just to be able to sell your stuff? Or hunt around dozens of different traders trying to find what you want to buy? Dumbest system I've ever seen. Its one of the reasons, but not the only one, that I don't generally sub for this game.

Rave the Histborn

EatYourVegetables wrote: »

I play multiple MMOs. Every time I leave ESO and go to one of the ones with a centralized trading system, its a breath of fresh air. And when I come back to ESO the distributed guild based trading system is a breath of foul, stinky, fart-like air.

Seriously, join a guild and pay dues every week just to be able to sell your stuff? Or hunt around dozens of different traders trying to find what you want to buy? Dumbest system I've ever seen. Its one of the reasons, but not the only one, that I don't generally sub for this game.

Gotcha so you dont really play this game

Jhalin

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

We'll never get an auction house, but it would be nice if they did something to combat the trade mafias which consistently control just about all the spots people actually use. Basically, the people who have the money now will always have the money because it's virtually impossible for anyone smaller to break in.

You can get an invite to a trade guild in literally five minutes. And you are more than free to leave immediately after selling what you want.

What about that process is “virtually impossible”?

barney2525

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

EatYourVegetables wrote: »

I play multiple MMOs. Every time I leave ESO and go to one of the ones with a centralized trading system, its a breath of fresh air. And when I come back to ESO the distributed guild based trading system is a breath of foul, stinky, fart-like air.

Seriously, join a guild and pay dues every week just to be able to sell your stuff? Or hunt around dozens of different traders trying to find what you want to buy? Dumbest system I've ever seen. Its one of the reasons, but not the only one, that I don't generally sub for this game.

Gotcha so you dont really play this game

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

EatYourVegetables wrote: »

I play multiple MMOs. Every time I leave ESO and go to one of the ones with a centralized trading system, its a breath of fresh air. And when I come back to ESO the distributed guild based trading system is a breath of foul, stinky, fart-like air.

Seriously, join a guild and pay dues every week just to be able to sell your stuff? Or hunt around dozens of different traders trying to find what you want to buy? Dumbest system I've ever seen. Its one of the reasons, but not the only one, that I don't generally sub for this game.

Gotcha so you dont really play this game

Wow, imagine that. A cheap shot, but it's only a cheap shot because it is a completely False statement. Whatever the game is, it will require a Mechanic for buying and selling. That is ALL the Trader system is. That is ALL a GAH is. A Mechanic. It has NOTHING to do with actual game play. Spending time using the Trader system is Not Game play, anymore than spending time using a GAH would be.

They are Mechanics. Nothing more. If you think you are 'playing the game' by spending the bulk of your time playing with numbers, you are deluding yourself. You can do that without even logging in to ESO.

sueblue

No.

tahol10069

This week the one and only guild I belong to, you know, the rare one where there are no auctions, raffles or dues (aka the only one I can tolerate) lost all its 10 bids.

Yes, this system is really working well.

This crap started after this new multi-bid system, before that the guild had a steady trader for 2 whole years.

But it sure is equal according to some people.

ccfeeling

Actually I sell everything to merchant NPC .

This game trading system sucks .

Tigerseye

barney2525 wrote: »

So they invent the 'Lots of guilds have traders and have no fees or sales minimums'. To which I would normally say - Name them. Of course, they would respond that they can't do that here, as it could be considered 'shaming'. So it's just another false claim that they do not have to back up with Facts.

The best thing for the Majority of players is the GAH.

IMHO

I don't know if there are "lots", but I am currently in 4 like that (on PCEU) and was in 5, before I accidentally left one, like an idiot, lol.

They are:

Dragons Bane - Trader in Sywatch, Auridon

Llamas Rules the Party - Trader in Hollow City, Coldharbour

Tamriel Homes - Trader in Ebonheart, Stonefalls

Aetherius Art - Trader in Ebonheart, Stonefalls

All have guild traders in decent (or fairly decent) locations, all have no minimum sales amount (although, Llamas technically requires you sell one thing a week, I think), no fee and no compulsory donations.

Two of them (Dragons Bane and Llamas) have a (free to enter) weekly lottery.

I'm sure some people have an axe to grind, here, but I certainly do not.

I have complained about trying to buy materials in this guild store system, repeatedly!

Both systems do have their pros and cons, as I mentioned before and so, I think the ideal would be a kind of hybrid system.

However, if I had to pick one, it would be an auction house for sheer convenience for the buyer of things like materials.

I don't see how naming guilds, in a positive light, could be considered "shaming" either?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

EVERY other MMO I have played has one - and I have NEVER once seen any evidence at all of the calamity people like you claim exists.

Because it already happened. You're basically strolling around in the smoldering ruins while loudly proclaiming that there is no evidence that a disaster is going to happen. Even as irradiated, mutant survivors claw at your legs and beg for you to buy their stuff at about half what the vendor will give them for it.

So you've got no evidence of it actually happening - well done.

No, we've, literally, watched it happen, multiple times.

So it should be easy to present evidence of it.

As this debate topic comes up so often, and people like you are constantly asked for evidence you can never present, I would think if it were actually happening one of you at least would have got some small shred evidence to support your li.. ...erm, claim.

But you haven't prevent ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

What does that say about your claim?

I think it says the following: your claim is a lie, and you know it is a lie; that is why you don't even bother trying to present evidence - because there is none.

All The Best

Elsonso

Tigerseye wrote: »

I don't see how naming guilds, in a positive light, could be considered "shaming" either?

I am in guilds with traders that do not require weekly payment to stay in the guild. (One strongly encourages, though) I don't name them because I don't recruit for those guilds. A couple of the GMs of those guilds are here on the forum, and they are not posting their guilds in here, so perhaps restraint is the order of the day.

starkerealm

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

But you haven't prevent ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

I have, many times. Not my problem that you've ignored it, and I'm done repeating myself for you. You want to refute the evidence I've offered, go find it.