Lets have an auction house please!!!

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

it takes me 5 one one if I am sprinting in Summerset where everything is super local.

Weird, Alinor usually takes me about 2 minutes, give or take.

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

Ohh BTW, remember when you were mocking me for my repair bills. Well I decided to test it. I use Solitude Salmon-Millet Soup on the character I am playing tonight, a lightning sorc. I repaired and set out of my adventure.

I went to a delve, used food, ran delve. I then went and did a public dungeon, I then went and did a second delve all in elseweyr. ZERO deaths and I used a pet to tank many of the mobs.

Upon completion, ONE HOUR OF GAMEPLAY, ZERO DEATHS WITH A FULLY REPAIRED SET my repair bill was 650 gold on the nose.

So, when I made the claim of spending 4k a day or more based on how much I can potentially play, you do the math and then come back and apologize for your blatant condescending attitude towards me.

Worth remembering that Elsweyr is currently subject to an XP doubler. Because decay tracks with combat XP gained, and the XP is doubled, your gear decay is (at least) doubled. Could be more than double, if you're using any other XP accelerators. So, good job, you turned a 200-300g repair bill into 650. Also, if you're looting, you'll pull down more than enough cash to offset the repair costs, though, Elsweyr does cut into your profit margin a bit, right now.

Tigerseye

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

You are just projecting.

And what are YOU doing, if not projecting, and projecting ONLY ?

The only factual truth known after all those countless AH-threads is that there's a rough 50/50 split between pro- and anti-AH.
So no, it's NOT "the few rich" against "the many poor".
The "economy" arguments brought up by both sides roughly counter and contradict each other with no clear "winner".
The "other games" arguments brought up by both sides also cancel each other since noone seems to agree as to what "works" and "doesn't work" in other games.

The difference is mainly perception. The guild trader system is perceived as "fun and part of the game" by the anti-AH and as "inconvenient" by the pro-AH. Flipping is considered gaming by some, and swindling by others. Trading guilds are considered a socialization asset by some, and a barrier to entry by others.
These topics popping up on a regular basis don't prove that the current system is flawed, it only shows that players' opinions are still split about it.

I'd like people on both sides (I am personally on the anti-AH side) to acknowledge that their arguments are all subjective and STOP calling them FACTS, and also STOP calling the other side corrupt, predators or idiots.

Half of the players like or even love this system, the other half dislike or even hate it. That's a matter of taste and of how we like to play. That's all there's to it, really.

No, I'm sorry but that is almost certainly incorrect.

Most casual players simply do not come to the forums.

If they did, there would almost certainly be an overwhelming majority for a centralised auction house.

As I say, I think there are pros and cons to both systems, to an extent and that a compromise system might be worth considering, but still.

Rave the Histborn

Raideen wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

4.6k per character a day isn't anything to laugh at. It takes 20min to crafts on 10 guys which is 46k a day and over 300k per week. If you're questioning it you don't know what you're talking about.

If you have 10 characters maxed out at 50. You do realize that it takes quite awhile to achieve that. Your description is not the average player, and 20 minutes to do 10...WOW, it takes me 5 one one if I am sprinting in Summerset where everything is super local.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Motif sales aren't RNG. You put them up for a price and they sell, there's nothing RNG about it.

LOL...and how do you get the motifs? LOL, RNG. SMH

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

How many quests have you done in Elsweyr in the last 2 months? I haven't been here in 2 months and I've completed the Anequina style and I've almost got half the Pellentine in the last week.

I have done quite a few. I am almost done with the zone on two characters. I am no where near collecting all of them. I get the same ones over and over (bows...always bows), and I sell them for roughly 12.5-15k

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Your results don't seem to be the ones remotely close to average. You know you have to play the game in order to see results and not just cry on the forums all day.

I play daily. I own my own business and have the luxury of playing in-between work and then playing with GF in my off hours. I can literally spend all day playing the game.

Ohh BTW, remember when you were mocking me for my repair bills. Well I decided to test it. I use Solitude Salmon-Millet Soup on the character I am playing tonight, a lightning sorc. I repaired and set out of my adventure.

I went to a delve, used food, ran delve. I then went and did a public dungeon, I then went and did a second delve all in elseweyr. ZERO deaths and I used a pet to tank many of the mobs.

Upon completion, ONE HOUR OF GAMEPLAY, ZERO DEATHS WITH A FULLY REPAIRED SET my repair bill was 650 gold on the nose.

So, when I made the claim of spending 4k a day or more based on how much I can potentially play, you do the math and then come back and apologize for your blatant condescending attitude towards me.

1. Getting characters to lvl 50 is beyond easy. Between dolmen groups, skyreach runs, Xp potions, Xp scrolls, and Xp events, all of which are provided by ZOS pretty abundantly. If your characters are minimum level they gain about 2.2k per day. 10 toons over a week is still over 140k gold which is great money for the time spent unless it takes you 5 min per character. Then you are doing it wrong.
2. Selling motifs isn't RNGand I hate to break it to you but all drops in this game are RNG
3. It sounds like you're only doing 1 quest a day. Of course it's going to take awhile, it is supposed to. You're playing an MMO, it's designed like this.
4. If you play that much you should be doing a lot more. X to doubt.
5. Your quote "These amounts of deaths create large repair bills, esp on the gold gear." 650g is not a large bill and not worth complaining about. I'm sure you also made 2-3x that in gold, mats, and vendor items.
6. If i'm running a public dungeon and a few delves I'm going to average about 4k gold to the vendor just from that one run, not including any materials you find during your quest, any you get from decon, any potential rng items to sell, etc. So if we just hypothetically say you have 5 crafters, 2 are lvl 50 and 1 is a master crafter and 3 are lvl 5 you'd then be earning 15.8k per day. If we add those sums together you're earning about 20k gold or 5x what you're spending in your entire day of questing from just 1 round of 2 delves and a public dungeon plus 5 crafters. That is just gold btw I'm also not including surveys and writs gained either.

You're not getting an apology because I did nothing to apologize for aside from pointing out your own faults.

starkerealm

Tigerseye wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

You are just projecting.

And what are YOU doing, if not projecting, and projecting ONLY ?

The only factual truth known after all those countless AH-threads is that there's a rough 50/50 split between pro- and anti-AH.
So no, it's NOT "the few rich" against "the many poor".
The "economy" arguments brought up by both sides roughly counter and contradict each other with no clear "winner".
The "other games" arguments brought up by both sides also cancel each other since noone seems to agree as to what "works" and "doesn't work" in other games.

The difference is mainly perception. The guild trader system is perceived as "fun and part of the game" by the anti-AH and as "inconvenient" by the pro-AH. Flipping is considered gaming by some, and swindling by others. Trading guilds are considered a socialization asset by some, and a barrier to entry by others.
These topics popping up on a regular basis don't prove that the current system is flawed, it only shows that players' opinions are still split about it.

I'd like people on both sides (I am personally on the anti-AH side) to acknowledge that their arguments are all subjective and STOP calling them FACTS, and also STOP calling the other side corrupt, predators or idiots.

Half of the players like or even love this system, the other half dislike or even hate it. That's a matter of taste and of how we like to play. That's all there's to it, really.

No, I'm sorry but that is almost certainly incorrect.

Most casual players simply do not come to the forums.

If they did, there would almost certainly be an overwhelming majority for a centralised auction house.

As I say, I think there are pros and cons to both systems, to an extent and that a compromise system might be worth considering, but still.

I'd be willing to be that, "most casual players," are too disengaged to worry about the market, much less aware enough about it to actually meaningfully participate.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

You suggested that the entire process was executed AFK, which is a bannible offense.

Because you said and I quote
"Also, if you use Lazy Writ Crafter, on a PC with a decent hard drive, clearing 15 takes about 30-35 minutes. At that point, if your goal is to make money, and you're not doing writs, you've intentionally chosen a less efficient method."

I did not understand what the hard drive had to do with crafting writs because nothing should be calculating on your end, the crafting being done is saved on their server. So it appeared to me one needed a "fast hard drive" for the addon to crunch data, which is automation. You following me?
I never made the claim, I asked the question based on information you provided. If you have issues here, blame yourself, not me.

starkerealm wrote: »

It does several things.

First: It will auto accept writs from the notice boards. So, you walk up to the board, and it will automatically accept the quests there. (Incidentally, this is fine with the devs, and I've had a conversation with one who used a similar addon to filter for Covetous Countess on the Thieves Guild tip board.)

Second: It puts an element in the crafting UI showing you what you need for the current writ at that station. If you interact with the station to complete a currently accepted writ, the name of the station will appear in red. If you have a writ for that skill line and it's ready to turn in, the station's name will be green. (If you don't have a writ, it will be white.)

Third: (Most significantly) the UI element has a button to auto craft items needed for the writ. You click that, and it will craft the items you need. Alternately, this can be configured to automatically execute when you interact with the station.

Ok...a fair amount of that seems like automation to me. Devs might be cool with it, does not change what it is.

starkerealm wrote: »

Important Note: Lazy Writ Crafter does not work with Alchemy or Provisioning. Daily Provisioning and Daily Alchemy do provide that functionality, but they're separate addons.

Fourth: It will automatically execute the quest turn in dialog at the drop off point.

Fifth: If configured, it will automatically loot your reward caches in the background.

The end result massively accelerates writ completion, but you do still need to be at the keyboard.

Well technically you need to be at the keyboard for SOME of the interaction, while the rest is done in the background (automated).

Raideen wrote: »

A lot. Even died on air in Moongrave Fane a bunch last night. Only person on a role they're comfortable with was C'Nedra, the rest of us were scampering around in a memefest. It was during Nyssa's stream if you want to dig up the Twitch VoD.

That was vet, it does not screw around, and it will kill you. That's part of the game. If you're running vet content, you're going to die. No shame in it.

I just repaired, got on my sorc who is mostly golded. I run a lightning build with netches touch, Illambris and Julianos. I blow things up pretty fast. I use Soltude Salmon-Millet Soup which lasts one hour. I needed to eat before I did my test.
I ran 2 delves and 1 public dungeon in elseweyr. Took right at an hour to complete all three. I never died, had some help along the way with low level players following me and tagging mobs.
My repair bill, from fully repaired for ONE hour of play, ZERO deaths with a pet tanking was 650 gold.

If you cant see how that can add up to 4k over a long day of play, tehn I don't know what to say. Lets do some basic math 6.15 hours of play x 650 an hour = 4000

starkerealm wrote: »

This is technically not true, because there is a posthumous notification. Read it. It will tell you what killed you, so you can learn to avoid it in the future.

Yes, you are given an indication of what killed you AFTER you die, my point is that there is no indication that the particular attack is incoming in the first place.

Hell yesterday I was running to a dragon, he was at about 7 oclock. I was on templar using 28m ranged attacks. Did not even get in range to hit the dragon, nothing on ground, no fire, no reticles, nothing. I just died. *POOF* even girlfriend was laughing and said WTF (and she rarely curses). I asked her if she saw anything on the ground, nope...and no one else around me died.

It happened the day before, we were racing to get to a dragon. Upon running in, instant death with 21k health and 15k resist.

I would not make the claims if I did not witness them myself. And in fact, I agree that we SHOULD see damage incoming and that most of the game works that way....not in these cases. Its happened so many times in fact both of us (GF and I) chock it up to terrible coding, bad net code, or something else on their end...because trust me, 15 years of playing MMO's from WOW to SWTOR, to GW2, WARHAMMER Online, Everquest, Rift, I know how to stay out of the bad stuff, and I know to look for it, and I know to expect it.

starkerealm wrote: »

No, this is a L2P issue, not a hardware problem.

Incorrect, you do not have the experience or wherewithal to make this claim.

starkerealm wrote: »

Dragons have a few nasty tricks up their... uh, "sleeves." This includes an almost instantly lethal AoE that doesn't have a normal callout, but is predictable if you're watching the motes of fire wandering around the arena.

This also brings up a question of how much health do you have? Because it is entirely possible in ESO to build a glass cannon too fragile to use. Most experienced players will put some of their build into health on DPS, to avoid dying to one shots that float around 15-20k damage. Those are entirely survivable, but only if you plan for some defense.

I make it a habit not to run below 19k. I prefer 19.5 if possible. My templar has close to 21k and with the defensive set I was wearing, close to 15k resist.

starkerealm wrote: »

Not 100% sure, but I've never noticed an applicable, repair cost, difference between my characters in full gold, and my characters in purple, with gold weapons.

Beyond that, if you're having issues, upgrading your weapons to gold makes sense. Upgrading gear and jewelry to gold is just a status symbol. It doesn't matter in most cases.

Yes, golded weapons make the biggest impact, jewelry is almost pointless, which makes me question why ZO$ made jewelry stupidly more expensive to craft than anything else. Makes no sense.

Raideen wrote: »

But, all of that being said. EVEN IF U DONT DIE to mobs, or falling or anything, I mean I don't die period. I still amass heavy repair bills, even on low level alts.

starkerealm wrote: »

Gear decays based on combat XP and deaths. If you're running content normally, repair costs will be fairly low. If you're specifically trying to power level by grinding enemies, your costs will be significantly higher. This will also result in a situation where you have reached endgame without really learning how to play the game, and enemies will be far more lethal than you're prepared to deal with.

Oh, oh... wait. This sounds familiar. You tried to play this like WoW, didn't you? And now, that you're at 160+ you're throwing a tantrum because you just realized, this more like Dark Souls than WoW, you're lost, scrambling around, and everybody can one shot you. The goal was to learn how to play, because the power progression curve is inverse.

What?!!?!? More defamation tactics. WOW.
I never ONCE stated how I played in wow, and I don't "power level" grinding enemies. I do a mixture of questing, dungeons, dolems for achives and to level up fighters guild. I never "power leveled" in wow either. Where you even come up with this is laughable. LOL

starkerealm wrote: »

There are only 7 crafting writs. You can do each once a day, and those reset at 2am Eastern. So, yeah, nobody's doing 10 crafting writs on each character, each day, because there aren't ten crafting skill lines.

no, 7 crafting writs on 10 characters. Keep up.

starkerealm wrote: »

I don't. I've got one character who has all of the Skyshards (not counting Northern Elsweyr), after that, my characters have somewhere between 60 and 100 shards each. There's a couple 200s in there. Mostly I only chase shards if I need them.

I do have three or four characters who have all the Cyrodiil shards, but that's because those include the hardest shards to collect, and I never got around to completing their collections outside of PvP.

So your alts are just for crafting? Because without hardcore skyshard farming, you will not have enough skill points to put skills into all the necessary areas for crafting to craft at 50 with 50 items.

starkerealm wrote: »

Really? How you figure?

What, exactly, do you think you can spend crowns on that will make you more powerful?

You can buy a house? That does nothing. Unless you want to practice on a dummy, but you could do that in a free inn room, using the dummy that is currently free in the store (the dragon hoard from the event). You can also get dummies for free, in game, if you want to spend the time, but it does intersect with the crafting system.

You can buy the Merchant and Banker. They're nice to have, but they don't make you better at the game.

You can buy the DLC, but it's cheaper to just grab ESO+ and get the crafting bag.

You can make your character look very pretty. But that's not P2W.

You can buy crates, which get you some consumables that are inferior to ones you could craft without spending another dime. So, no real gain there.

You get some cool looking mounts, if you're lucky, and 5k is enough to get lucky, but, that's not going to be any better than the free, brown horse you got at level 10.

So, there's nothing that really benefits you in the store.

I mean, if this was Star Trek Online, I know what I'd spend 5k on to improve myself. I'd buy a ton of keys, crack boxes until I got the T6 ships I was chasing. Or generate enough EC to buy them directly. Then I'd spend the rest on crafting mats, and upgrade my gear to mk14 gold. But, that's not possible here.

Or, Secret World Legends, same story, find some gear I like, then buy keys and crack crates until I had that stuff upgrade to level whatever Red rarity.

You can't do that in ESO. There's no path to get gold rarity mats in the store, no way to advance your character to 160 (or 300, or 810), no way advance your gear past 160 by any means, no way to get attractive sets from the store.

the problem is that you and most other uneducated people (in this matter) try to attach the pay to win description often used in FPS games where the weapon makes you stronger than others who do not buy that weapon. Because there is no end to an MMO there is essentially no winning by that definition. "Winning" in an MMORPG has traditionally meant downing hard bosses and getting rare mounts, rare weapons etc. In ESO there is no getting cool mounts or weapons for downing bosses. Most of the cosmetics in this game are had through the crown store, NOT through in game activity.

You can't use the same descriptors for PTW in FPS vs MMORPG because the games are completely different.

Secondly. Skill unlocks, motifs alone can set you back 3k if you have 15 toons. Skill unlocks are exactly pay to win for low level characters. My point is that most of this stuff is difficult ot almost unobtainable in game due to the gold cost of the items (which is by design) and this is why ZO$ them for sale in the crown store.

starkerealm wrote: »

Guilds change over time. The one I'm in right now is still trading. That hasn't changed. There have been a lot of people who burned out and took a break in the last couple months. Hell, one of my raiding guilds is effectively on hiatus right now. Doesn't mean the game is dead. If your trade guild is shutting down, that's more reason to bail, and find one that's active.

not mine, mine is one of the strongest in the game. Which is telling when I cant sell a motif at market prices (TTC) in mournhold

starkerealm wrote: »

Also, preaching to the choir. I've talked about the crown store, face to face. It's worth knowing that the crown store team is separate from the main dev team, and I've never interacted with the crown team. Though, randomly accusing people people of being greedy, especially when you step back and actually look at what other developers are doing, is not a great way to start a conversation.

There is no way that the crown store team is completely separate (zero communication) from the dev team. The two are too perfectly intertwined and in the world of design, that does not happen randomly.

As far as calling someone out as being greedy....if they have an issue with it as the opener in a conversation they have two choices. They can either try to understand the customers point of view and be sympathetic, or they can call the PR patrol to try and shut the customer up.

I am a paying customer, I have every right to voice my opinion based on what I am seeing.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Ohh BTW, remember when you were mocking me for my repair bills. Well I decided to test it. I use Solitude Salmon-Millet Soup on the character I am playing tonight, a lightning sorc. I repaired and set out of my adventure.

I went to a delve, used food, ran delve. I then went and did a public dungeon, I then went and did a second delve all in elseweyr. ZERO deaths and I used a pet to tank many of the mobs.

Upon completion, ONE HOUR OF GAMEPLAY, ZERO DEATHS WITH A FULLY REPAIRED SET my repair bill was 650 gold on the nose.

So, when I made the claim of spending 4k a day or more based on how much I can potentially play, you do the math and then come back and apologize for your blatant condescending attitude towards me.

Worth remembering that Elsweyr is currently subject to an XP doubler. Because decay tracks with combat XP gained, and the XP is doubled, your gear decay is (at least) doubled. Could be more than double, if you're using any other XP accelerators. So, good job, you turned a 200-300g repair bill into 650. Also, if you're looting, you'll pull down more than enough cash to offset the repair costs, though, Elsweyr does cut into your profit margin a bit, right now.

And this still fits into my original statement about repair costs. In NON boosted XP areas, it would have taken 2 hours.

That is still a boat load of daily repair regardless of how you look at it.

Uryel

Glurin wrote: »

Five thousand threads on this topic and you still have the gall to make that claim. The reason the guild trader system exists in the first place is because AHs are full of drawbacks that ZoS was trying to get away from.

Yeah, sure, and 1 million suicidal lemmings can't be wrong either.

The crurrent system ALSO has drawbacks, which ALSO have been discussed many times, so why pretend they don't exist either ?

Raideen

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

[
1. It isn't automated. I don't think you understand the definitions of the words you use.
2. It doesn't. You suggested it's automated because instead of actually looking at it you condemned and judged it without knowing anything about it. Either way you're whining about something that doesn't matter.
3. I'm great at the guild trader, judging by what you're saying though you don't seem to have the same success.
4. Sorry, I don't believe that happens to you every time. If it does there's easy solutions.
A) You're lying about your specs/location/internet
You're lying about the encounters
Again. My specs aren't as good as yours and I don't live right next to the server location. I don't seem to encounter nearly any of the problem and I've been playing since Orsinium came out.
5. Movie quotes aren't helping your case.
6. Again how do you die that much that you're encountering "massive" repair bills? It's what 2k at most if all your stuff is broken. Repair kits are also laughably easy to get and will save you $$$.
7. You're saying you're dying because ESO is becoming pay to win. How do I refute this when it seems to be a just you problem? I gave you the answer and classifying it as a "character attack" seems to be your way of dealing with the reality of the situation.
8. It doesn't push you to the crown store, there's tons of problems with how ESO monetizes but this is the biggest reach I have ever seen.

1. It in FACT automates part of the process, or you would not use it. I think you are the one who is confused with the definition of automation.
2. I did not condemn nor judge it, go read the post again...its all there in black and white. You are making up 100% BS
3. I am definitely not making millions.
4. I never said "every time" did I? No....I said its HAPPENED, that does not imply every time but it does happen more than it should, in fact its happens daily or multiple times a day. Well ZOS can track my IP, then know for a fact I am in the dallas area, I don't have to prove anything to you. They also know the specs of my PC. Perhaps you don't pay the kind of attention to details like I do.
5. It helps if you can relate it to the topic, sadly you were not able to.
6. I don't have to die to accumulate heavy repair bills. 1 hour tonight (not even an hour) I amassed 650 with zero deaths just running 2 delves and 1 public dungeon...nothing else.
7. What are you on? Honest question because you are pulling stuff out of left field.
8. Incorrect. Every design decision in this game pushes you to the crown store. Its their business model. I don't fault the model, I fault the prices which are way above industry standards for this quality of a game.

Uryel

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd be willing to be that, "most casual players," are too disengaged to worry about the market, much less aware enough about it to actually meaningfully participate.

Which is precisely why we need a central auction house.

People who only have a few things to sell a week, and only buy a few things every now and then, are mostly unable to do so nowadays. Because having a spot requires a fierce cash battle, most guilds will require a certain amount of sale or a donation. That keeps casuals out of the market entirely.

It's akin to arriving at a supermarket and being refused entry. "Sorry, sir, you can't shop here. You only ever spend about 100 bucks per week, and this store is reserved for high spenders, at least 500 bucks a day. Try another supermarket". Somewhere else : "Sorry sir, you need at least 200 bucks spent a week, here. But you can also purchase our weekly membership card for 50 bucks."

The current system keeps casual players out of it, unless you're very lucky with your trade guild. There are some who make do without requirements like that. And yet, on the global amount of players, casuals would provide a significant amount of goods, overall. Just one tiny bit per person, but it's the whole picture that counts.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

You are just projecting.

And what are YOU doing, if not projecting, and projecting ONLY ?

The only factual truth known after all those countless AH-threads is that there's a rough 50/50 split between pro- and anti-AH.
So no, it's NOT "the few rich" against "the many poor".
The "economy" arguments brought up by both sides roughly counter and contradict each other with no clear "winner".
The "other games" arguments brought up by both sides also cancel each other since noone seems to agree as to what "works" and "doesn't work" in other games.

The difference is mainly perception. The guild trader system is perceived as "fun and part of the game" by the anti-AH and as "inconvenient" by the pro-AH. Flipping is considered gaming by some, and swindling by others. Trading guilds are considered a socialization asset by some, and a barrier to entry by others.
These topics popping up on a regular basis don't prove that the current system is flawed, it only shows that players' opinions are still split about it.

I'd like people on both sides (I am personally on the anti-AH side) to acknowledge that their arguments are all subjective and STOP calling them FACTS, and also STOP calling the other side corrupt, predators or idiots.

Half of the players like or even love this system, the other half dislike or even hate it. That's a matter of taste and of how we like to play. That's all there's to it, really.

No, I'm sorry but that is almost certainly incorrect.

Most casual players simply do not come to the forums.

If they did, there would almost certainly be an overwhelming majority for a centralised auction house.

As I say, I think there are pros and cons to both systems, to an extent and that a compromise system might be worth considering, but still.

I'd be willing to be that, "most casual players," are too disengaged to worry about the market, much less aware enough about it to actually meaningfully participate.

And isn't that part of the problem? I see that as a HUGE missed opportunity to connect with those players through an easy to use auction system and interface.

Tigerseye

Wolfpaw wrote: »

1. Searched for DC pvp guild in guild finder
2. Join dc "pvp" guild-donation, no weekly fee.
3. One week later, letter in mail telling me I need to "donate".
4. Annoying guild chat of how the leaders of the guild do this & that for us guild members...blahblahblah...
5. Ask why no mention of a weekly fee in guild finder, & get the explanation how my "donation" enters me in some stupid raffle w/hundreds of other players making multiple "donations" for tickets.
6. Want no part of this system, leave guild.

Some of these guild leaders/officers sure think they're special, & doing some great service.

Sell in chat & keep what I earn, or sell crowns for gold....easy to make gold in this game. Current trade system is a joke.

That doesn't sound good, at all.

Not all guilds are like that, to be fair.

Some charge no fee, have no minimum sales target, don't insist on donations and still have a raffle.

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

You are just projecting.

And what are YOU doing, if not projecting, and projecting ONLY ?

The only factual truth known after all those countless AH-threads is that there's a rough 50/50 split between pro- and anti-AH.
So no, it's NOT "the few rich" against "the many poor".
The "economy" arguments brought up by both sides roughly counter and contradict each other with no clear "winner".
The "other games" arguments brought up by both sides also cancel each other since noone seems to agree as to what "works" and "doesn't work" in other games.

The difference is mainly perception. The guild trader system is perceived as "fun and part of the game" by the anti-AH and as "inconvenient" by the pro-AH. Flipping is considered gaming by some, and swindling by others. Trading guilds are considered a socialization asset by some, and a barrier to entry by others.
These topics popping up on a regular basis don't prove that the current system is flawed, it only shows that players' opinions are still split about it.

I'd like people on both sides (I am personally on the anti-AH side) to acknowledge that their arguments are all subjective and STOP calling them FACTS, and also STOP calling the other side corrupt, predators or idiots.

Half of the players like or even love this system, the other half dislike or even hate it. That's a matter of taste and of how we like to play. That's all there's to it, really.

No, I'm sorry but that is almost certainly incorrect.

Most casual players simply do not come to the forums.

If they did, there would almost certainly be an overwhelming majority for a centralised auction house.

As I say, I think there are pros and cons to both systems, to an extent and that a compromise system might be worth considering, but still.

I'd be willing to be that, "most casual players," are too disengaged to worry about the market, much less aware enough about it to actually meaningfully participate.

And isn't that part of the problem? I see that as a HUGE missed opportunity to connect with those players through an easy to use auction system and interface.

No. They don't care. You're not going to reach out to them with a GAH. They won't care either way, and won't care enough to engage with it.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Glurin wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A central AH is a win-win for everyone. There is literally no drawback to it.

Five thousand threads on this topic and you still have the gall to make that claim. The reason the guild trader system exists in the first place is because AHs are full of drawbacks that ZoS was trying to get away from.

Drawbacks that no one, EVER, in any of these threads has shown actually exist.

All The Best

starkerealm

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A central AH is a win-win for everyone. There is literally no drawback to it.

Five thousand threads on this topic and you still have the gall to make that claim. The reason the guild trader system exists in the first place is because AHs are full of drawbacks that ZoS was trying to get away from.

Drawbacks that no one, EVER, in any of these threads has shown actually exist.

All The Best

This has been covered to death. If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

Jhalin

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A central AH is a win-win for everyone. There is literally no drawback to it.

Five thousand threads on this topic and you still have the gall to make that claim. The reason the guild trader system exists in the first place is because AHs are full of drawbacks that ZoS was trying to get away from.

Drawbacks that no one, EVER, in any of these threads has shown actually exist.

All The Best

Translation:

starkerealm

@Jhalin, you win this round. Well played, sir. Hehe.

barney2525

Tatanko wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds

Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.

This is such a load of Garbage.

"Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees" - which is blatant BS. There is No one out there who chooses to just throw away millions of gold every week just so their guild does not have to charge for the weekly trader. If they Have a trader, it WILL cost you to be part of that Guild. Quite frankly, it would be unfair Not to have the members support the guild.

"If you are selling enough items"... Here's a thought. There just might be a few people in the game that want to Play the Game, rather than waste time trying to find/make enough stuff to meet those minimum sales requirements. A lot of players happen to get some random treasure item that they dont want, but someone else might. They just want to be able to put it up for sale, which benefits both the seller and buyer. Can't do that without being in a trading guild. CAN do that with an AH.

The basic Fact that this game Denies - as in DENIES - the average player the right to just sell an item from a central location, and Requires Everyone to be in a guild just to sell Anything, is a Travesty.

The requirement that a player must spend Literal Hours traveling across the entire map, stopping at every individual trader just to try and find something that they want to buy, is Garbage. That is NOT " playing the game ", since there is absolutely No Benefit to the character, and No character development by doing so. It's just a ridiculous waste of time.

barney2525

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds

Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.

Just as the claim, that a global auction house would be even worse, without giving more explanation why. I am just saying, that there could be both, but it is obvious that many here fear something...

Why would you ever use two auction systems? Theres no benefits to it at all.

Actually, IMHO, they Should put in a GAH and keep the trader system, at least for awhile. Because this definitively ends the discussion. One of the two systems will be used extensively, and one will not. You then have definitive Facts supporting which system Players prefer. And then you switch to the preferred system.

This is exactly why the pro-trader group hates this idea. If you put the two systems side by side, even the pro-traders know which one will come out on top.

Uryel

starkerealm wrote: »

No. They don't care. You're not going to reach out to them with a GAH. They won't care either way, and won't care enough to engage with it.

Yeah, because obviously no one likes to sell their occasional good drop without any hassle.

You do realise that it's not all black and white, right ?

Uryel

A pretty decent auction system was the one in City of Heroes.

Seller would set a minimum price at which they agree to sell their stuff. They cannot see the minimum price asked by other people, but they see the last few / average prices for the past few sales. Honestly can't remember which one of those two options was used, the game has been down for several years (even though some slick private server resurfaced recently, I haven't gotten around to trading there yet).

Buyer sees the same information, how much things sold for, and sets a buying price.

Then, the system works its magic in the background. If a buyer's offer matches a seller's asking price, a sale is done. Seller might even get more cash than they asked, if the buyer's offer was above what they asked. The houses takes a fee, of course.

That, or Guild wars 2 : you can see every listings for every price, and every buy offers for every price, making it very obvious when someone tries to manipulate the market. You can chose to undercut everyone for a guaranteed sale and less profit, or remain in the reasonable margin and wait a bit until it sells... And if you've got something VERY rare, you know it immediatly by the sheer lack of listings. Also, GW2 has a built-in "trade real cash currency for game money" that is pretty foolproof, while we have to use shady deals here, where one user delivers gold with no guarantee, or giofts crown items with no guarantee.

ZOS could learn alot from games that came before.

starkerealm

barney2525 wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds

Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.

This is such a load of Garbage.

"Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees" - which is blatant BS.

Except, you know, for all those guilds that have traders and do not have mandatory fees or quotas.

barney2525 wrote: »

A lot of players happen to get some random treasure item that they dont want, but someone else might. They just want to be able to put it up for sale, which benefits both the seller and buyer. Can't do that without being in a trading guild. CAN do that with an AH.

Can't do that in an AH, can't do that if you're in a trading guild, because random treasure items are bound on pickup.

starkerealm

Uryel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

No. They don't care. You're not going to reach out to them with a GAH. They won't care either way, and won't care enough to engage with it.

Yeah, because obviously no one likes to sell their occasional good drop without any hassle.

You do realise that it's not all black and white, right ?

And if they want to transition from casual to being a member of the community, there are a lot of trading guilds that are happy to have them.

buttaface

starkerealm wrote: »

If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

No you won't, and ignoring the glaring bandwagon in the above, what you -will- find in all these AH threads across games is hollow broscience platitudes not even amounting to junior college macro micro on the con side.

What you will -never ever- find is any AH detractors meeting a burden to overcome the presumption that -any- change to ANY market that enhances liquidity is beneficial to market participants until sound rebuttal of deleterious effects are produced. They NEVER EVER ARE in this issue. As has been established in this thread, not nebulous bandwagon threads elsewhere, who benefits most from poor trading functionality in a game is the game's producer, and to players' distinct disadvantage.

What you will -always- find is AH detractors fallaciously posturing only against a completely unregulated free for all of an AH.

Rave the Histborn

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A central AH is a win-win for everyone. There is literally no drawback to it.

Five thousand threads on this topic and you still have the gall to make that claim. The reason the guild trader system exists in the first place is because AHs are full of drawbacks that ZoS was trying to get away from.

Drawbacks that no one, EVER, in any of these threads has shown actually exist.

All The Best

They've been shown to exist for years. The problem is that the people that want to abuse the AH system deny the drawbacks and say that no one ever has ever abused it ever and that it is perfect in everyway. Normal people refer to them as liars.

Grimm13

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

8. The player base shrinking is because of balancing/server issues/lack luster endgame/boring chapter content. It's not because of guild traders.

It is a combination of these things. Different people have different last straws depending on what they are interested in. There are more issues than what you list as well that people have.

It all comes down to enjoyment. Does a game still provide it or is it more frustrating when looking across the board of a game. No enjoyment then people move on. Another product is created that is more enjoyable people shift to it.

For a long time people have been saying they are frustrated with the trading system and express what will make it enjoyable. Some call this a beating a dead horse, what this really says is "That they acknowledge this a long standing problem that ZOS has yet to address".

Grimm13

Raideen wrote: »

1. It in FACT automates part of the process, or you would not use it. I think you are the one who is confused with the definition of automation.

Let us compare it to dolmen running. You join a large group then move to the next generated dolmen, do a few attacks and collect a reward, rise and repeat. In fact if you are part of a group you can just stand there and still collect a reward.

You are complaining that with writs one can have mark the writs they have to be made when they open the required craft station. Then they go find the craft stations open each one, wait for it to craft, go find the next one until they decide they need to collect a reward. So they again travel to find the turn in point, then active one writ of each type and then open the turn in which grants your reward and then you have to again active/ turn in until done.

So with dolmens or even grouping you can let others do the work and collect a reward. There is also grouping, then one group member can kill all the creatures and the rest only collect a reward generate only because they are near and in the group. (not even talking about botting)

With master writs you have to interact at several points and travel to a specific zone to interact again to collect the rewards.

Which side is worse? I say what you can do with the combat side. Yet the side that is better has a wooping gold sink and they side abused most often in the game does not have a like gold sink.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A central AH is a win-win for everyone. There is literally no drawback to it.

Five thousand threads on this topic and you still have the gall to make that claim. The reason the guild trader system exists in the first place is because AHs are full of drawbacks that ZoS was trying to get away from.

Drawbacks that no one, EVER, in any of these threads has shown actually exist. All The Best

They've been shown to exist for years. The problem is that the people that want to abuse the AH system deny the drawbacks and say that no one ever has ever abused it ever and that it is perfect in everyway. Normal people refer to them as liars.

Funny you should bring that up, read above.

dagrdagaz_5912

starkerealm wrote: »

No. They don't care. You're not going to reach out to them with a GAH. They won't care either way, and won't care enough to engage with it.

You don't know that.
This is then an assumption

barney2525

starkerealm wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Again: The system we have now allows for monopoly of trading to a few guilds

Repeating this statement doesn't make it true, it only makes you seem inexperienced with trading in ESO. You're on PC, where it is incredibly easy to participate in the market. Now that we have a guild finder, joining a trade guild with a kiosk is trivial, and THAT is the hardest part of selling. Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees, and those that do are not difficult to meet if you're selling enough items to need membership in a big name guild in the first place.

This is such a load of Garbage.

"Many guilds don't have minimum sales or fees" - which is blatant BS.

Except, you know, for all those guilds that have traders and do not have mandatory fees or quotas.

barney2525 wrote: »

A lot of players happen to get some random treasure item that they dont want, but someone else might. They just want to be able to put it up for sale, which benefits both the seller and buyer. Can't do that without being in a trading guild. CAN do that with an AH.

Can't do that in an AH, can't do that if you're in a trading guild, because random treasure items are bound on pickup.

NO they are not. When was the last scroll motif you found bind on pickup? Now you are just making things up.

Dawnblade

All systems have drawbacks - the question is which system would provide the largest benefit to the majority of players with the least amount of drawbacks.

And while none of us can state with 100% certainty which system would provide the best marketplace for the majority of players, observations of markets in similar games and in the real world show that more liquidity and transparency generally lead to better outcomes for the majority than restrictive and opaque markets.

Of course such a question is moot with respect to ESO as the developer may have other considerations beyond the player, including a desire to use a clunky marketplace as a time sink, an inability to support a server wide marketplace from a technical perspective, an unwillingness to invest in development, to pure stubbornness and desire to be different for difference sake.