StamDK should be EARTH themed - not Poison

Davadin

Thanks to this thread on DK Identity: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495286/dk-identity#latest

Made me think...

Y'know what, Stonefist is a poor implementation. But I'll live with it. We can work with it. We'll give feedback on how bad the function is, how ugly the animation is, or how unlikely the skill will be used, ok ok, we got a hundred threads on that.


BUT I realized that my heart ACHE MORE on the fact stamDK has a POISON theme.

Do we have an ability line on poisons? No. We have 3 skill lines; Fire (Ardent Flame), Dragon (Draconic), and Earth (Earthen Heart).

So... MagDK got dibs on the whole fire theme. Most skill morphs into Fire-based damages. Great.

And perhaps, PERHAPS, stamDK having a Dragon them is a little too much... I mean, it sounded redundant, amirite? Dragon-themed DragonKnights? Nah... that's too much.


But EARTH.

Come on.

look at this.



It looks fiery.

It looks hot.

and strong.

like a rock.

DOES IT LOOK LIKE A POISON-BASED CLASS, ZOS?




Look at it again.

Now look into your hearts, ZOS. You KNOW it's the RIGHT THING TO DO. It FEELS right. It LOOKS right. I guarantee it will work out right. Trust me. Do it. @ZOS_GinaBruno

DO THE RIGHT THING.

The_Lex

I'm with you on this. I was a DK before the switch to the poisoned theme was implemented. I want sDK to go back to its original design and intent.

These skillful masters-at-arms use the ancient Akaviri martial arts tradition of battle-spirit, and wield fearsome magic that pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them.

Physically alters the world...not poisons the world around them.

BattleAxe

I guess you’ve never heard of poison dragons so yes poison fits the dk theme nicely

SFDB

Dragon and Earth always seemed an odd pairing. "I am one with the ground, that's why I spend so much time far, far away from it."

VaranisArano

Part of the reason I associate it with poison is that the two stamina morphs are Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw.

Now, certainly, it would be nice for StamDKs to get more use out of the DK Earth skills.

The_Lex

BattleAxe wrote: »

I guess you’ve never heard of poison dragons so yes poison fits the dk theme nicely

Not in Elder Scrolls. You need a mod for that.

Royaji

Between a poisonous frog and poo-slinging monkey I would rather take the frog.

And it works better with attrition theme and focus on DoTs. What kind of DoT does earth offer? "Oh my, I'm all dirty and this is hurting my feelings and fashion sense so much that I am literally taking physical damage"?

SeaUnicorn

Poison dragons are a thing. They are reptiles...

The_Lex

With all I said, I'd like to add that, for me, the poison vs earth them is not a hill worth dying on. There are too many other more important issues that ZOS should be addressing long before this one. All I'd ask is that ZOS remains consistent in its power fantasy animations/abilities.

Dogzey

Davadin wrote: »

Thanks to this thread on DK Identity: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495286/dk-identity#latest

Made me think...

Y'know what, Stonefist is a poor implementation. But I'll live with it. We can work with it. We'll give feedback on how bad the function is, how ugly the animation is, or how unlikely the skill will be used, ok ok, we got a hundred threads on that.


BUT I realized that my heart ACHE MORE on the fact stamDK has a POISON theme.

Do we have an ability line on poisons? No. We have 3 skill lines; Fire (Ardent Flame), Dragon (Draconic), and Earth (Earthen Heart).

So... MagDK got dibs on the whole fire theme. Most skill morphs into Fire-based damages. Great.

And perhaps, PERHAPS, stamDK having a Dragon them is a little too much... I mean, it sounded redundant, amirite? Dragon-themed DragonKnights? Nah... that's too much.


But EARTH.

Come on.

look at this.



It looks fiery.

It looks hot.

and strong.

like a rock.

DOES IT LOOK LIKE A POISON-BASED CLASS, ZOS?




Look at it again.

Now look into your hearts, ZOS. You KNOW it's the RIGHT THING TO DO. It FEELS right. It LOOKS right. I guarantee it will work out right. Trust me. Do it. @ZOS_GinaBruno

DO THE RIGHT THING.

Glad I got you thinking lol.

Mmm idk, what the hell has earth got to do with a dragon? Lava forming rocks maybe idk? Its in competition for most lacklustre skill line in the game any how. Poison dragons are a real thing, it's the theme they picked way back in one tamerial (or morrowind cant remember when they brought it in exactly) so they should stick to it and reinforce that identity.

SipofMaim

Sounds good, but... I don't know that vomiting gravel would be a visual improvement over vomiting poison. Maybe they could give SDKs their fire effects and just let the stamina morphs do physical damage on the quiet instead of actual fire damage.

Assuming that at some point in the future we'll actually want to slot fiery breath morphs. RIP

At least stonefist doesn't coat your character in... mud... anymore.

Davadin

yes.




no.



yes.




no.

Davadin

SipofMaim wrote: »

Sounds good, but... I don't know that vomiting gravel would be a visual improvement over vomiting poison.

ok, i'll give you that point.

Davadin

BattleAxe wrote: »

I guess you’ve never heard of poison dragons so yes poison fits the dk theme nicely

so why do we have a whole line of earth-based skills, and only 2 MORPHS that are poison?



(disclaimer: i know the whole reason they picked poison as in the whole game, it attributes based on stamina, instead of magicka-based fire, it just doesn't look as cool when i vomit)

jcm2606

I'd honestly rather see stamDK be physical with some flame on the side, as opposed to poison or straight flame. Works a lot better into the dragon theme, magDK purely embodies the flaming magic of a dragon, stamDK embodies the raw strength and brutality of a dragon.

Turn Venomous Claw into a bleed (is now possible without being too OP, thanks to the bleed rework), turn Noxious into some ash breath or something, and have like a bite, wing slash or tail whip as the spammable.

darkblue5

For earth breath may I introduce pyroclastic flows?

TBH I don't personally mind the mixture of themes as much as actually getting to use the passives.

Loralai_907

Ok, this might sound stupid, but way back in the day, when the original cinematic trailers were coming out, I absolutely fell in love with the main characters. The lady elf and her green whip in particular. The closest thing to that was a DK and using a fire whip. Its always been "a thing" for me, a point of irritation. But, because of that, for whatever reason, the poison theme has always worked for me with DK's, and eventually ZOS coming to grips with things and giving us a stamina based poison whip is something I'm still kind of waiting for. It makes the most sense to work it into that class with that existing skill than to expect it to fit in anywhere else. I get the stone theme for protection based skills, but not damage. Damage should remain with fire for magic and poison for stamina. But for the love of everything good in this world, can we get the green whip someday before I'm 95 years old?

Celestro

I always kind of wondered why poison wasn't given to Nightblades but with the attaching damage types to different classes, ultimately poison made more sense than disease as far as the Stamina side of things go.

Davadin

jcm2606 wrote: »

I'd honestly rather see stamDK be physical with some flame on the side, as opposed to poison or straight flame. Works a lot better into the dragon theme, magDK purely embodies the flaming magic of a dragon, stamDK embodies the raw strength and brutality of a dragon.

Turn Venomous Claw into a bleed (is now possible without being too OP, thanks to the bleed rework), turn Noxious into some ash breath or something, and have like a bite, wing slash or tail whip as the spammable.

i like this!!

mommadani907 wrote: »

But for the love of everything good in this world, can we get the green whip someday before I'm 95 years old?

depends. how old are you now?

Davadin

Another supporting post.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495299/opinion-make-stamdks-theme-fire-and-earth-again#latest

deepseamk20b14_ESO

That’s actually a good idea. Not sure the programming behind it but replace poison with earth and make it a different damage source dealing with elemental and make it so earth damage lol. If not just rock animation have vines come out of the ground. Since each element already has something that goes a long with it (like concussion, snare, etc.) earth could deal with some sort of minor buff, maybe minor fracture? Add an earth staff too. That would be some cool ground effect AoE!

Yeah, I know, it would be too much.

Xvorg

Davadin wrote: »

Another supporting post.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495299/opinion-make-stamdks-theme-fire-and-earth-again#latest

DKs are from Destruction + alteration schools, so I support this

Jayroo

okay, so earth... where are the fire skills though?

Oh yea.... that's right.... buried in nerfs.

SFDB

Why not air? Dragons:
-Blow
-Fly
-Knock things down with their voices

Suryoyo

A StamDK (or even magDK) centered about Fire AND Weapons (magic ones just animations...) would be awesome especially with animations close to this one from Golden sun (Gaia's blade):

Of course the caster would do different movements than this one.

Guyle

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

That’s actually a good idea. Not sure the programming behind it but replace poison with earth and make it a different damage source dealing with elemental and make it so earth damage lol. If not just rock animation have vines come out of the ground. Since each element already has something that goes a long with it (like concussion, snare, etc.) earth could deal with some sort of minor buff, maybe minor fracture? Add an earth staff too. That would be some cool ground effect AoE!

Yeah, I know, it would be too much.

You want us to have plant powers now?

Xvorg

Suryoyo wrote: »

A StamDK (or even magDK) centered about Fire AND Weapons (magic ones just animations...) would be awesome especially with animations close to this one from Golden sun (Gaia's blade):

Of course the caster would do different movements than this one.

hmmm, I just see Ragnarok Esper from FF VI

Xvorg

Guyle wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

That’s actually a good idea. Not sure the programming behind it but replace poison with earth and make it a different damage source dealing with elemental and make it so earth damage lol. If not just rock animation have vines come out of the ground. Since each element already has something that goes a long with it (like concussion, snare, etc.) earth could deal with some sort of minor buff, maybe minor fracture? Add an earth staff too. That would be some cool ground effect AoE!

Yeah, I know, it would be too much.

You want us to have plant powers now?

DKs are a combination of destruction magic (fire) and alteration magic (earth). That's even in lore:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Forged_in_the_Heart_of_Mundus

FLambda

I don't even play a dragonknight, and I agree earth would fit better for them. And a pyroclastic flow–style animation would work for the breath.

JusticeSouldier

Davadin wrote: »

Thanks to this thread on DK Identity: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495286/dk-identity#latest

Made me think...

Y'know what, Stonefist is a poor implementation. But I'll live with it. We can work with it. We'll give feedback on how bad the function is, how ugly the animation is, or how unlikely the skill will be used, ok ok, we got a hundred threads on that.


BUT I realized that my heart ACHE MORE on the fact stamDK has a POISON theme.

Do we have an ability line on poisons? No. We have 3 skill lines; Fire (Ardent Flame), Dragon (Draconic), and Earth (Earthen Heart).

So... MagDK got dibs on the whole fire theme. Most skill morphs into Fire-based damages. Great.

And perhaps, PERHAPS, stamDK having a Dragon them is a little too much... I mean, it sounded redundant, amirite? Dragon-themed DragonKnights? Nah... that's too much.


But EARTH.

Come on.

look at this.



It looks fiery.

It looks hot.

and strong.

like a rock.

DOES IT LOOK LIKE A POISON-BASED CLASS, ZOS?




Look at it again.

Now look into your hearts, ZOS. You KNOW it's the RIGHT THING TO DO. It FEELS right. It LOOKS right. I guarantee it will work out right. Trust me. Do it. @ZOS_GinaBruno

DO THE RIGHT THING.

I'm ok with poison theme.
And with stone theme.
Not with stonefiast, which animation is poor AF.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler Stonefist should be melee skill, with animation, where hand became big and made from stone and punch the target. Your "version" is very, very, very poor. It's not stamdk.

Guyle

Xvorg wrote: »

Guyle wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

That’s actually a good idea. Not sure the programming behind it but replace poison with earth and make it a different damage source dealing with elemental and make it so earth damage lol. If not just rock animation have vines come out of the ground. Since each element already has something that goes a long with it (like concussion, snare, etc.) earth could deal with some sort of minor buff, maybe minor fracture? Add an earth staff too. That would be some cool ground effect AoE!

Yeah, I know, it would be too much.

You want us to have plant powers now?

DKs are a combination of destruction magic (fire) and alteration magic (earth). That's even in lore:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Forged_in_the_Heart_of_Mundus

Okay, but I don't see where you'd get the vines from earth magic though. Sure, plants come from the ground, but traditionally I think most of us associate plants with nature magic and earth magic with stuff like rocks and metal. Even that link you gave makes no mention of plants. Like, wouldn't it make more sense to say use a power like sinkhole to root opponents using earth magic then summoning vines to grab them?