PTS Update 24 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

LexrayEmberrr

Iskiab wrote: »

Only activating overload is on the GCD. Once it’s active each light and heavy attack consumes some ultimate until you don’t have enough ultimate, you toggle overload off, or bar swop if overload isn’t on your back bar.

I could make some cheeky comment about ‘see most sorcs don’t know how to LA weave’, but since overload is not popular I imagine most sorcs have no idea how it works and have never actually tried it.

It does persist through barswap, even if it's not slotted on both bars. It's kind of like the Psijic Order skill Mend Wounds in that regard.

Otherwise, yes, you're absolutely right; activating it does cost a global cooldown but the light/heavy attacks themselves are not on the GCD.

Iskiab

LexrayEmberrr wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Only activating overload is on the GCD. Once it’s active each light and heavy attack consumes some ultimate until you don’t have enough ultimate, you toggle overload off, or bar swop if overload isn’t on your back bar.

I could make some cheeky comment about ‘see most sorcs don’t know how to LA weave’, but since overload is not popular I imagine most sorcs have no idea how it works and have never actually tried it.

It does persist through barswap, even if it's not slotted on both bars. It's kind of like the Psijic Order skill Mend Wounds in that regard.

Otherwise, yes, you're absolutely right; activating it does cost a global cooldown but the light/heavy attacks themselves are not on the GCD.

Ah okay. How does it interact with Symbiosis btw? I haven’t unlocked it yet on my sorc. What happens if you have Symbiosis toggled and then hit overload? Does the Symbiosis stay on when overload has expired or does it cancel Symbiosis?

LexrayEmberrr

Iskiab wrote: »

Ah okay. How does it interact with Symbiosis btw? I haven’t unlocked it yet on my sorc. What happens if you have Symbiosis toggled and then hit overload? Does the Symbiosis stay on when overload has expired or does it cancel Symbiosis?

Using one will cancel the other, works both ways: Activating Overload will shut off Symbiosis, and activating Symbiosis will shut off Overload. In the case of the former, Symbiosis does not automatically get reapplied after Overload expires.

Lord_Sando

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Ellyhan wrote: »

an other question : Why you don't give any spammable since years for the sorc' ? I don't understand what's wrong for sorc' to get a spammable ! For Stam I mean. Mago got it with staff..

To underline this I'd like to add that ZOS decided to nerf each and every weapon spammable skill.

Flurry got nerfed this patch, Dizzy as well. Both with the excuse that they exceed DoTs. Now dots are nerfed less but those two skills stay were they are.
Low Slash and Puncture got gutted by 31% resp. 37% damage in U23.
Hidden Blade dmg decreased by 25%, cost increased by 27% in U23.

Don't get me started about DoTs (Poison Injection etc.) and the situation about Ultimates (cast time, no physical dmg class alternatives).

But sure thing, I can use Silver Shards and Crushing Weapon, which both have their shortcommings in PvP. And funnily enough both are in the now-buyable guild lines *puts on tinfoil hat*

The issue is that stamsorcs heavily rely on those weapon skills. You're pulling the rug out from under our feets, ZOS.
If you continue to make generic skills inferior to class skills stamsorcs are running into issues. And no, Energized won't even that out in the long run.

Bound Armaments proc is really appreciated now but that neither gives us a spam nor real delayed burst (like shalks, curse, PotL).

Also where is the mentioned Air Atronach? Is something planned to make overload more useful? The announcement of this patch felt like we're finally heared. But it turns out to be just another missed opportunity.

I could not agree with this post more. If the patch goes live with any other changes Stam Sorc will be hurt the most in PVP.

Ellyhan

Don't care about PVP. All of nerf turn around PVP. So stop about this..

Galarthor

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Ellyhan wrote: »

an other question : Why you don't give any spammable since years for the sorc' ? I don't understand what's wrong for sorc' to get a spammable ! For Stam I mean. Mago got it with staff..

To underline this I'd like to add that ZOS decided to nerf each and every weapon spammable skill.

Flurry got nerfed this patch, Dizzy as well. Both with the excuse that they exceed DoTs. Now dots are nerfed less but those two skills stay were they are.

That's b/c they are completely overperforming on live. I get that this might hurt stamsorcs more than other classes, but you cannot have something that overperforming in the game for the sake of 1 out of 12 classes. ZOS has to address the issue from another angle. But without taking even more away from mag sorcs, b/c as was pointed out stamsorcs already got access to more active and passive abilities than mag sorcs.

There are plenty of unused active abilites that could see a similar conversion as bound armaments. Pets and the magicka version of bound armaments are a prime example for that. Who needs block potency increased on a magicka build, when shields are drained before block takes effect ... and the 8% max magicka? Inner Light gives me 7% plus a hefty crit bonus and some regen.

The passives could use an overhaul too. I mean 20% stam regen, but 10% mag regen. Wtf is up with that? Others are completely unused or offer little value added to all but some niche builds.

Chilly-McFreeze

Galarthor wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Ellyhan wrote: »

an other question : Why you don't give any spammable since years for the sorc' ? I don't understand what's wrong for sorc' to get a spammable ! For Stam I mean. Mago got it with staff..

To underline this I'd like to add that ZOS decided to nerf each and every weapon spammable skill.

Flurry got nerfed this patch, Dizzy as well. Both with the excuse that they exceed DoTs. Now dots are nerfed less but those two skills stay were they are.

That's b/c they are completely overperforming on live. I get that this might hurt stamsorcs more than other classes, but you cannot have something that overperforming in the game for the sake of 1 out of 12 classes.

I might have to add that I was speaking from a PvP perspective. I put the response to that in spoilers since it's a little non-sorcerish.

The official excuse why they reduced dmg of flurry and DS was that it exceeded DoT standards. Those standards got raised back up a bit last pts patch but the spams didn't get an adjustment. Seems like an scapegoat, doesn't it? Also how could every single weapon spam (Flurry, Uppercut, Low Slash, Puncture) suddenly overperform?

Flurry isn't the *** because how clunky it is (peak damage and heal on last hit of the channel), Crushing wasn't nerfed but is very clunky on melee, especially in laggy situations. Shards is good on paper but if doesn't play out too well in my experience, but ymmv. Dizzy had the sky falling on it because they they buffed it trice (cast time, cost, dmg) while they nerfed Puncture, Dagger and Slash all at the same time. So of course people flocked there.

Galarthor wrote: »

ZOS has to address the issue from another angle. But without taking even more away from mag sorcs, b/c as was pointed out stamsorcs already got access to more active and passive abilities than mag sorcs.

But enough of that as I see we don't come to terms on weapon skills. However I totally agree that ZOS could and should tackle that by adding to stamsorc rather than leaving weapon balance in it's sorry state.

I'm not sure I understand the last sentence. What was taken away from magsorcs to give it to Stam Sorcs? Power Surge that will be replaced by Crit Surge with a bigger heal? Clannfear that no mag DD used? Or do you mean the general changes and nerfs to magsorc?

How do stamsorcs have access to more passives? Around 1/3 of class passives are of little value to them.

I don't want to dig too deep into the "stam has more weapon lines than mag", especially not now after they nerfed every spam. Those lines leave intentional gaps and are there in the first place to fill the gaps of your class kit. You know yourself we're running into issues when the class kit doesn't even present you most basic offensive moves. I have the feeling that the general consensus now leans toward "class skills should outperform general skills", so it's bound to happen to cushion those nerfs.

Galarthor wrote: »

There are plenty of unused active abilites that could see a similar conversion as bound armaments. Pets and the magicka version of bound armaments are a prime example for that. Who needs block potency increased on a magicka build, when shields are drained before block takes effect ... and the 8% max magicka? Inner Light gives me 7% plus a hefty crit bonus and some regen.

Even if you don't like them doesn't mean they don't have their uses. There are a lot of pet sorcs out there that wouldn't like it too much if they turn 5 years of pet class upside down. Bound Aegis is useful for tanks because it costs magicka instead of stam. Not everyone is a damage dealer.

But you're right again that some skills are used by only a tiny minority. There are a lot of skills that could use a rework to benefit someone. Stams, Tanks, Healers. I wrote about that in another thread.

What first comes to mind is a physical dmg melee version of Crystal Blast.Air Atronach has become a staple wish by now, just like a physical dmg overload. The latter could maybe use an entire rework anyway, but that's just my opinion.
If I had a wish, I'd fuse both Curse morphs together, with a kiss-curse on pet dmg on each explosion so it isn't overbuffed (e.g. convert pet boni into some kind of pet debuff after the first proc so you can choose between two procs or early recast for pet dmg) and turn the other morph into stam.

One of the Deadric Mines morphs could become a healing rune. Rune Cage needs the backend damage converted into DoT on hit to make use of Blood Magic passive.

Galarthor wrote: »

The passives could use an overhaul too. I mean 20% stam regen, but 10% mag regen. Wtf is up with that? Others are completely unused or offer little value added to all but some niche builds.

What's up with that is that mag regen is unconditionally while you have to slot a skill that is essentially dead weight for stam sorcs until next patch. Atro has always been a backbar ult. But sure, biggest offender are Rebate and Blood Magic imho.

CambionDaemon

The biggest problem that they have with Sorcerer is that it is the only class with three classes within it, Pet/Stamina/Proper Sorcerer(non-pet). I see comments that say make one morph of Curse stamina and the other left for pets (Prey) with the 'kiss/curse' effect for the damage, but this then takes away from the non-pet.

The only way that this can be fixed, is to split the Sorcerer class in to Pet and Non-Pet. Non-pet cannot be buffed/fixed because it will buff Pet Sorc and changes to other skills for Stamina will take away from Non-Pet.

This doesn't take in to account, skills for Tanking/Healing etc, which is another problem altogether.

universal_wrath

CambionDaemon wrote: »

The biggest problem that they have with Sorcerer is that it is the only class with three classes within it, Pet/Stamina/Proper Sorcerer(non-pet). I see comments that say make one morph of Curse stamina and the other left for pets (Prey) with the 'kiss/curse' effect for the damage, but this then takes away from the non-pet.

The only way that this can be fixed, is to split the Sorcerer class in to Pet and Non-Pet. Non-pet cannot be buffed/fixed because it will buff Pet Sorc and changes to other skills for Stamina will take away from Non-Pet.

This doesn't take in to account, skills for Tanking/Healing etc, which is another problem altogether.

You know, zos and always treat curse like souls trap, which ever highest offensive stat deals either physical or magical dmg. Likewsie, this treatment can be applied to any skill in the game and it can solve a lot of issue, but noo. Too easy for zos, they have to do it the hard way.

CambionDaemon

universal_wrath wrote: »

CambionDaemon wrote: »

The biggest problem that they have with Sorcerer is that it is the only class with three classes within it, Pet/Stamina/Proper Sorcerer(non-pet). I see comments that say make one morph of Curse stamina and the other left for pets (Prey) with the 'kiss/curse' effect for the damage, but this then takes away from the non-pet.

The only way that this can be fixed, is to split the Sorcerer class in to Pet and Non-Pet. Non-pet cannot be buffed/fixed because it will buff Pet Sorc and changes to other skills for Stamina will take away from Non-Pet.

This doesn't take in to account, skills for Tanking/Healing etc, which is another problem altogether.

You know, zos and always treat curse like souls trap, which ever highest offensive stat deals either physical or magical dmg. Likewsie, this treatment can be applied to any skill in the game and it can solve a lot of issue, but noo. Too easy for zos, they have to do it the hard way.

It would solve a lot of problems, but yes they do like to do their own thing

ToRelax

.

universal_wrath wrote: »

CambionDaemon wrote: »

The biggest problem that they have with Sorcerer is that it is the only class with three classes within it, Pet/Stamina/Proper Sorcerer(non-pet). I see comments that say make one morph of Curse stamina and the other left for pets (Prey) with the 'kiss/curse' effect for the damage, but this then takes away from the non-pet.

The only way that this can be fixed, is to split the Sorcerer class in to Pet and Non-Pet. Non-pet cannot be buffed/fixed because it will buff Pet Sorc and changes to other skills for Stamina will take away from Non-Pet.

This doesn't take in to account, skills for Tanking/Healing etc, which is another problem altogether.

You know, zos and always treat curse like souls trap, which ever highest offensive stat deals either physical or magical dmg. Likewsie, this treatment can be applied to any skill in the game and it can solve a lot of issue, but noo. Too easy for zos, they have to do it the hard way.

We really don't need any more homogenization between magicka and stamina, do we?

universal_wrath

ToRelax wrote: »

.

universal_wrath wrote: »

CambionDaemon wrote: »

The biggest problem that they have with Sorcerer is that it is the only class with three classes within it, Pet/Stamina/Proper Sorcerer(non-pet). I see comments that say make one morph of Curse stamina and the other left for pets (Prey) with the 'kiss/curse' effect for the damage, but this then takes away from the non-pet.

The only way that this can be fixed, is to split the Sorcerer class in to Pet and Non-Pet. Non-pet cannot be buffed/fixed because it will buff Pet Sorc and changes to other skills for Stamina will take away from Non-Pet.

This doesn't take in to account, skills for Tanking/Healing etc, which is another problem altogether.

You know, zos and always treat curse like souls trap, which ever highest offensive stat deals either physical or magical dmg. Likewsie, this treatment can be applied to any skill in the game and it can solve a lot of issue, but noo. Too easy for zos, they have to do it the hard way.

We really don't need any more homogenization between magicka and stamina, do we?

I don't think that ut would be homognizing, in fact, yiu will so many different builds for both pve and pvp.

Moloch1514

Why the extra nerf to Daedric Prey @ZOS_BrianWheeler? Please give some feedback for once, would be great for PR if nothing else.

universal_wrath

So... pet sorc nerf and sound effect improvment. How pathetic can someone be cto post this patch notes. Only 1 more week to go and i think this is it

Tannus15

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Why the extra nerf to Daedric Prey @ZOS_BrianWheeler? Please give some feedback for once, would be great for PR if nothing else.

What *** numpty looked at the “feedback” from the last few weeks and came to the conclusion that what this game really needs is a daedric prey nerf?
Honestly, what the *** are you guys doing?

Moloch1514

I honestly think the combat team just watches streams and lurks on discord groups to see the top 1% show their parses. "Oh, all Sorcs are using prey and pets now? Nerf it now and screw the mortal folks barely getting 30k DPS and struggling to complete DLC dungeons."

Devs are balancing this game based on Hodor's stats, to the detriment of 99% of the players.

Mitrenga

Here's your feedback folks. Just arrived from the feedback factory.

luen79rwb17_ESO

So bound armnents sound was fixed on intial cast. Yet daggers... (yes they're ugly but thats besides my oint right now), they're not only hard af to see but the "fixed" sound once they pop is also very hard to listen.

pwidsten

It's official! When there's one week of the PTS left, Sorcs will get a quick nerf that was previously unannounced, unexplained or discussed in any way. In other words, "BTW, here's your nerf. Enjoy!"

BalticBlues

ZOS, please notice that last patch pet damage already was nerfed into the ground.
Nerfing the already nerfed pet damage now by an extra 50% nerf of daedric curse
will make daedric curse and damage pets officially useless.

Please also note that after you removed the Overload bar,
PetSorcs have only meagre 6 slots for shields, mobility, buffs and damage.
By nerfing daedric curse by 50% it will be impossible to generate enough damage, especially in PvP.

If you really want to go this way, please make Sorc pets use only one slot, as the NB and Necro pets do.
With 2 more slots at least it would be possible for PetSorcs to add some real damage skills to generate enough damage.

Ellyhan

So again a nerf. Lol. LOL.

Lord-Otto

Unbelieva- WAIT! It's ZOS, I actually believe it.
(-_-)
Wanna laugh? I bet sorcs will still have to listen to the usual guys moaning about our class and how "OP" it is, "never nerfed" and yadayadayada...
x'D

CP5

So I tried the clannfear on patch 1 of this go around to get an idea of how it was working out and it only slightly edged out the aoe soul trap under flawless situations with 100% curse uptime and the pet not moving or using its tail attack.

When both got a 20% buff those results remain the same. Now with this nerf that effort put into the class there was rendered worthless, but more than that it freed up a bar slot for those who used curse to buff the atronach's damage, may well use less class skills if the synergy between the skills is laughably beaten back.

So basically all this patch does for stam sorcs is give them grim focus, at the cost of what was an interesting sorc dps survival skill, not arguing with the change but now they are more alike than anything.

CambionDaemon

Hopefully they are about to get rid of pets and give us proper conjuration/summons, we know that they have already done a fire atronach summon.

Something like:

Summon Fire Atronach
Cost: 8000+ magicka
Health: 15k
Resistances: 20k
DPS: 30k
Duration: 60 seconds or until killed

Obviously just random numbers, but the principle would be the same. One morph changes it to a Frost atronach and the other summons two Fire atronachs that are weaker and have reduced duration.

The Sorcerer heal can then become a proper skill not tied to a pet (stupid idea to being with), and other changes can be made to the class to help Stamina. Bubbles can become proper wards (they should be anyway), and you could even introduce a proper bound weapon for magicka and stamina Sorcerers.

YandereGirlfriend

Honestly, WHO is the Sorcerer class representative?

If this were Congress, their phones and email would be blowing up with angry calls from their constituents.

Does that person just have no power/influence over development (in which case why does the program even exist--window dressing?) or are they the one actively advocating for these unceasing nerfs?

Regular magSorcs are also giving side-eye watching Nightblade Path get buffed to the moon (7k+ DPS!) while our own under-powered, prohibitively expensive Liquid Lightning is being removed from every player's bar.

Celestro

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Honestly, WHO is the Sorcerer class representative?

If this were Congress, their phones and email would be blowing up with angry calls from their constituents.

Does that person just have no power/influence over development (in which case why does the program even exist--window dressing?) or are they the one actively advocating for these unceasing nerfs?

Regular magSorcs are also giving side-eye watching Nightblade Path get buffed to the moon (7k+ DPS!) while our own under-powered, prohibitively expensive Liquid Lightning is being removed from every player's bar.

Yes they have no influence. Never think or believe that ZOS is listening, regardless of who you are. Like many things in life when it comes to these patches as of late, hope for the best, expect the worse and please direct any and all irritation at the right people.

Derra

Introducing statuseffects on shields AFTER nerfing them to oblivion is one of those things that just makes you shake your head in the attempt to revisit the thought process these devs must have.

Selling it as a bugfix is hilarious at that. I have a direct message of the lead combat designer from 2017 that makes it very clear this was not unintended behavior of shields - 2 years ago.

This is a joke.

Then removing the minimum traveltime on will/scourge referencing frag which has EXACTLY the same minimum traveltime on live. Speechless.
Icing on the cake: Mages wrath still has an 800ms traveltime regardless of ranged it´s used at.
These priorities...

Tyrion87

So, are you gonna leave lighting splash in its miserable state so no magicka sorc will slot it next patch? Currently on live magicka sorcs suffer to lack of identity the most out of all mag classes, and with the pts nerfs you made it even more of a problem. Non-pet sorcs are basically non-existent at this point. Why are you so stubborn at constantly making magicka sorcs less fun to play every single patch?

VaxtinTheWolf

If you that are asking for it, get the one-bar pets, you know that they might heavily adjust the skills as well.

Even so, if they were using one slot, I'm imagining something like a fire-and-forget gameplay. Familiar pulses on it's own while in combat, but with an internal cooldown. Clannfear probably loses it's heal to mitigate the sorcerer's incoming damage like the Necromancer's ghost, since that's still Tank-friendly and would make shields slightly more durable. The Twilight Matriarch would likely just pulse an average heal every x amount of seconds between basic attacks. Don't know what the Tormentor would do.

Chilly-McFreeze

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Don't know what the Tormentor would do.

ST damage, because that's what he should do but fails miserably even now.