Multi-bidding so far - GM & Officers how is it for you?

DragonRacer

GoodFella146 wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

Ah, there it is. Theeeeere's the trader price increase.

Placed 10 bids yesterday. Admittedly, only the first four were actually serious bids, but I like to have the others out there just in case.

The four serious bids, all of which should have been "overpaying" for the areas in general that they were placed based on recent past experience of wins... all lost.

So, no trader this week.

PS4 NA

Sorry that's a crappy feeling but it would be a lot better if you didn't have to bid against so many guilds. That's just a fact.

I’m sure it would be, but the strings that come attached with joining the Mournhold Mafia are not worth it, IMO. Have already seen some GMs melt down and leave the game entirely because of it, and seen others break away because of it.

That’s just a fact.

peacenote

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

First, can't help but notice....

...if the point of multi-bidding is to make it so no one "owns" a spot, but ironically to illustrate success you are pointing out that both of your guilds have won their "usual" spot... system has failed. :P Shouldn't they not HAVE a usual spot?!?

LoL... I knew that one would come.
Note the difference between "usual" (where we have been for the last couple of weeks or months) and "ours" (which involves a sense of ownership and a feeling of being unfairly robbed of something if we lose it).

None of my 2 guilds ever had that feeling of "ownership" while all major guilds (and many smaller but established guilds) feel entitled to "THEIR" spot. That's the difference.

I know what you mean about the difference however I think that has way more to do with the attitude of the guild/guild leader than the old system vs. the new multi-bidding system. And I'm not sure that the new system will temper that feeling; rather it has the potential to exacerbate it because at least some guilds are struggling much more to maintain a "usual" spot which makes each disruption more contentious. People are creatures of habit, and tend to say "mine" or "ours" for that reason. Entitlement is when people insist on being compensated for their loss, or take unrealistically drastic actions to reclaim what was theirs. People can feel entitled to anything, even if there is little to no barrier of entry.

For example...

Imagine someone who drives to the same place every day and tends to park in the same parking spot. Maybe they like it because it's shady, or it's close to the door, or it's easy to back out of. The parking lot might be completely free, or a lot that charges the same fee to everyone. Either way, an individual who tends to park in the same spot will frequently think of that spot as "their" spot. That feeling stems from familiarity and comfort.

Now imagine another individual, new to the neighborhood, starts to park in the first person's spot. Maybe they get up earlier in the day, or happened to get the spot a few days in a row when the first person was on vacation, etc. and also start to think of that spot as "their" spot.

Person A is going to feel like Person B is in "their" spot. It was never assigned to Person A. He/she hasn't done anything to earn it. At most they may be paying some kind of fee to access the lot or pay a meter. But they are going to feel like it was taken from them.

The difference between entitlement and affinity is how Person A reacts to Person B. The more entitlement they feel, the more drastic the action they might take to reclaim their self-proclaimed spot. No entitlement? Person A shrugs his or her shoulders and parks somewhere else, but takes "their" original spot if they see it open. Maybe eventually they identify with a new spot but the story of how "that black sedan stole my spot" is likely to be told and re-told, regardless. Some entitlement? Person A observes the situation and makes some effort to reclaim their spot. Maybe they get up 15 minutes earlier. Maybe they try to catch Person B to ask if they'd be willing to park somewhere else. A lot of entitlement? Person A might key Person B's car, or passive aggressively park super close so Person B doesn't have a nice experience in the spot, or takes steps to report Person B and get them banned from the lot.

In all cases, Person A identifies with "their" spot and may feel a sense of ownership that is completely self-assigned. But the parking system didn't make the person entitled. That comes from the person's individual belief system and personality. However, the more EFFORT Person A makes to secure or keep their parking spot will definitely increase their sense of entitlement TO the spot.

So in this new multi-bidding system, I believe the harder it is to maintain and secure a familiar spot, the more entitlement people will feel if they try to raise more gold and bid more and more in an effort to keep their spot. And, from what I've read here, we are seeing the trading version of keying people's cars or making their experiences unpleasant, as at least some folks are spending real money to convert to gold to obtain or keep a spot when they can't even make it profitable.

ANYWAY, not to go off on a tangent (sorry) but I actually came back to report that my primary and secondary trading guilds have both significantly increased the minimum contributions necessary, and are essentially requiring supplemental donations or raffle purchases since it is almost impossible to make the new minimums by sales tax alone. (At least it is for those of us who are IN these small and medium guilds because we never were able to trade enough for the big guilds.)

I am happy to do what I can for my trading guilds and will try to maintain these new minimums but I don't play every day. I made an extra effort to log in additional days to farm so I could donate more to the guild, because we made a big push, but I am not sure I can maintain that effort. It will be a very sad day if I have to drop especially my longtime trading guild, which is also a social guild to me at this point, because I can't meet the new minimums.

It would be one thing if this was a new game and a new system but we're looking at a massive disruption to friendly guilds that have been established for years and years, and have otherwise adapted to changes in the system and market without issue. So as of right now... still unhappy with the changes.

dvonpm

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

Nothing has changed much for me and my guild since I have a great team of officers and friends and we prepared very well and am on the PC NA server and not EU. And I did NOT raise dues or quotas. I refuse to do that.

And that's why it goes for me to stay that I still HATE the multi-bidding for the game in general. Most guilds ARE raising dues and quotas, hopefully come back down. But it seems like people have left the game, and stuff like this that makes the game less enjoyable for everyone has an impact. Maybe it's made things better on other platforms but for PC NA it makes it hardrer to stay in a good trade guild and very difficult to break through if you are a GM trying to get one of the better spots in the game. Good luck to all you other trade guilds out there.

We're Auction House Central on PC NA. Look us up on the guild finder. We're taking applications

I know where your guild is, and this is going to eventually affect you too. You aren't in a prime spot so it will be a minute before it comes to your doorstep, but it will come to your doorstep. It's right next door as it is. You are literally next in line.

dvonpm

dvonpm wrote: »

Also, ZOS, if you're going to keep upping the pressure you need to add some real guild and sales management tools.

If you are going to do this to people who are willing to be your customers while working part time jobs for you and not getting paid, Give us the tools we need to do that. At least.

Otherwise your free labor goes away. Your free advertising goes away. And your former customers will turn on you.

Well, 5 years I have been working for free to make your broke ass trade system work. I am done.

It is not my job to make your *** work. I tried. I couldn't if I wanted to.

Good luck. But also *** off.

Nisekev

Not an officer or GM, not sure it's caused by multi-bidding either, but my trading guild haven't been a trading guild for several weeks already.

Grimm13

peacenote wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

First, can't help but notice....

...if the point of multi-bidding is to make it so no one "owns" a spot, but ironically to illustrate success you are pointing out that both of your guilds have won their "usual" spot... system has failed. :P Shouldn't they not HAVE a usual spot?!?

LoL... I knew that one would come.
Note the difference between "usual" (where we have been for the last couple of weeks or months) and "ours" (which involves a sense of ownership and a feeling of being unfairly robbed of something if we lose it).

None of my 2 guilds ever had that feeling of "ownership" while all major guilds (and many smaller but established guilds) feel entitled to "THEIR" spot. That's the difference.

I know what you mean about the difference however I think that has way more to do with the attitude of the guild/guild leader than the old system vs. the new multi-bidding system. And I'm not sure that the new system will temper that feeling; rather it has the potential to exacerbate it because at least some guilds are struggling much more to maintain a "usual" spot which makes each disruption more contentious. People are creatures of habit, and tend to say "mine" or "ours" for that reason. Entitlement is when people insist on being compensated for their loss, or take unrealistically drastic actions to reclaim what was theirs. People can feel entitled to anything, even if there is little to no barrier of entry.

...snip...

It is not so much as entitled ownership but wanting to have a regular spot so people can find you. It's hard enough to hunt for items across the traders then you start bouncing Guilds around. Being at a stable spot helps to build sales. You get regulars that like to play in the area and shop there. Multi-bidding disrupts this. I got bumped into what you would consider a upgrade spot but sales tanked as the regulars did not follow, but sales came back up with getting back to the old spot.

So you see us say our spot or area, we are saying this is where we want to make home. It is where we prefer to be and where we believe our customers will do repeat business with us.

Stormahawk

The multibid system is supercharging the environment where whichever guild can fundraise the best will get the spot. Suddenly two auctions a week and one raffle aren't enough for most main city locations. This is also happening at a time where sales are dropping across the board for all guilds. Being a casual trading guild will no longer be possible. I am not sure if this is the outcome ZOS wanted but that's what it is now.

This is cascading down to less traveled locations. I expect this to continue going forward. Basically if guild leadership doesn't have time to fundraise/auction/raffle then they likely will eventually stop being a trading guild.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Well, I really haven't chimed in on this subject since the PTS threads and the pre-live threads for Multi-Bidding.
Yes, I was VERY vocal about it being a BAD idea!
I still stand by that, but......

It went live, and just like every change since beta, good or bad, I waited and see what happens.

I run a social guild that started as a cross guild guild before 1T. We have 400+ family, and I have tried to keep a trader for convenience and to make the guild better for it's guildies. We don't require dues, I do raffles and such a few times a year. We survive trader bidding on donations and I drop a mill or so in every so often.

Since the change we have been able to keep "Our Spot" that we have had for 2+ years with only a small increase in bids.
I still have to put MORE non play time in to check other traders, put in extra bids just in case, visit with other GM's about what's happening where, but all in all, it hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be. We are on PC/NA.

But my 2 drakes, 10 is still too many, reduce to 2 or 3, and I still think ZoS should give GM's better tools to run our guilds with, not this multi bid system.
Huzzah!!!

Arrodisia

EllieBlue wrote: »

From day one of the multi-bidding news came out, 95% of the trading guild GMs (of which half are from the large trading guilds and the other half from both medium and small) have felt very strongly against the multi-bidding system and we had expressed our feeling on the various post on the forum. We were ignored and called the fear-mongering lot, and many more names, some unfairly so. All that is happening right now are basically the scenarios we have foreseen and wrote about numerous times on those posts. From bidding cost rising exponentially, small and medium-sized guilds bearing the brunt of both rising bid cost and getting pushed out of their usual zones, to casual and new players getting pushed further out from mainstream trading due to trading guilds having to resort to fee-based practice and raising of requirements, in order to survive.

All said and done, it is what it is. Multi-bidding is here to stay. Like most things, when faced with change, one must evolve and adapt or perish. We have zero control over the system so there is no point in trying to blame anyone, small guild, medium, guild, large guild, the boogeyman over what is going on right now. Zos has decided that it is what we need in ESO, despite our objection, so we will have to roll with it the best we can. Or if you can't find it within you to do so, you can tell zos to go suck it instead and move on.

This exactly. This comment is spot on.

The inflation is really high with bidding, and 10 x's bidding seems to be too much imho. All five guilds in our alliance are paying ridiculous amounts to keep usual traders up. For my main guild alone, I'm bidding more than 3 times our usual spot's sales value, because when I don't, we get hit. Even with the OP bids, we still got knocked out twice, which caused some friction between the alliances. This increase in the mid tier spot had me thinking. Why should I pay xyz for that mid tier spot, when I could pay the same for the next tier spot? So, I moved us up. Unfortunately for us, we could care less about moving up right now. We want to sit in that mid tier spot, but it's lost it's value. So now, we either sit in a higher tier spot which is unappealing, or I overbid the midtier spot which is no longer worthwhile financially, or we move down a tier and lose my traders which isn't really a good option for the guild. So, I guess. I'll stay in the higher traffic spot until the inflation goes down, and I can settle back into our usual mid tier spot, when and if that ever happens.

reoskit

Two PCNA top tier trade guilds shut down operations this week. According to the grapevine, at least a handful of other guilds did as well.

Bids are insanely out of proportion with the market and, with DLC coming, bids are only going to go up, even though Dragonhold doesn't offer a ton of new stuff (housing patterns, for example) to sell.

I expect we'll be seeing more guilds shutter. Not a difficult prediction to make, really.

RIP to the guilds that shut down. Rest easy, GMs + officers. Divines know you've earned it.

Pevey

Yes, it was only a matter of time. ZOS drove some of its most dedicated players—who had donated many hours a week to their guilds—away from the game. Because however much time they spent, it was never enough to be sure they could do something as seemingly simple as secure a spot for their members to sell. Who needs that stress? ZOS, surely you can come up with some alterations that will make this less onerous for people who just want to sell.

jazsper77

All I keep reading is ALLIANCES and MAIN CITY are having trouble. ( which means arsefellow,crackewife, J-the trap and co can’t sell ghosts to losing Mafia members) Good the multi bid system is working as intended , if the Mafias on each server actually behaved themselves the last few years this would not have happened.
1. Lots of new Guilds with product to sell in place of ghosts.
2. Top Mafia Guilds not being able to BUY GHOSTS from The Godfather.
3. The in game harassment towards Guilds unwillingness to join mafia
4. Since multiple bid system my 30 Guilds have lost a total of 3 times.

I can be extremely critical of ZOS on ESO changes/direction. But you nailed this change 100%. When the Mafia/Alliances are the loudest crying you did well. DO NOT BEND ON THIS.

Within 6 months the Mafias will be done and the Trader system will revert back to a reasonable bid system. They are bleeding Guilds and members.

With the group of new games coming out between now and February players aren’t going to pay 20-30k a week to sell stuff.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ZOS!!!!!!’

Believe me I rarely say that.

Pevey

Also, I think sales being down, as Stormahawk and Reo pointed out, is directly related to the massive amount of additional gold being sucked out each week with these bids. It is deflationary. What has been remarkably in balance for a very long time, keeping prices relatively stable, is now suddenly pushing prices down. All the gold from fundraising comes from somewhere, and then it is sunk, and that means less gold to actually buy stuff. New dlc coming out will not fix that. The gold is gone.

tahol10069

The guild I'm in lost all 10 bids this week.

This is getting old really fast.

DragonRacer

Continuing to survive and thrive on PS4 NA. Still a large improvement for us and seems the usual big guilds still in the capitals like normal, with mid-range guilds in the mid-range, and small/new guilds rounding out the outliers and some mid-range.

Hate hearing that PC is suffering crippling bid inflation, though. We had a crazy week or two, but things seem fairly normal-ish for the most part, as far as places I usually place bids. I've only had the one 10-bid loss so far and that appears to be an outlier at the moment.

Ackwalan

If some big guild can't keep their spot (or any spot) they are doing it wrong. The small trading guild I'm in has had no problems.

reoskit

Ackwalan wrote: »

If some big guild can't keep their spot (or any spot) they are doing it wrong.

So, the only way to "do it right" is to stay specifically in our preferred kiosk. Is that right? Man. So many of us have failed! We're terrible leaders! Shut down the guilds!

(Btw, we're vilified every time we say "our spot" so be careful with the words you pick... The pitchforks are sharp.)

Ackwalan wrote: »

The small trading guild I'm in has had no problems.

"My apple is redder than your orange."


Edit: werd.

bmnoble

Not a GM but an update of some things happening in a few of the guilds I am in or was in at this point on PC/NA

Well recently one of the bigger guilds I was in packed it in and became a social guild, they consistently had spots in Rawlka or Mournhold, the GM had enough of doing a second job in the game more or less.

Most of those seeking a trader have moved to the sister guild, which has a spot in Mournhold.

And one of the medium sized guilds, along with one of their sister guilds merged all the members that wanted a trader with their 3 other sister guilds, due to the bidding on traders for 5 guilds becoming unsustainable.

(these are not new start up guilds either most have been operating as trade guilds since 2014 - 2016)

Resulting in 3 trade guilds no longer competing in the trader bidding and 3 near full trade guilds that are not likely to be recruiting any time soon.

peacenote

Grimm13 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

First, can't help but notice....

...if the point of multi-bidding is to make it so no one "owns" a spot, but ironically to illustrate success you are pointing out that both of your guilds have won their "usual" spot... system has failed. :P Shouldn't they not HAVE a usual spot?!?

LoL... I knew that one would come.
Note the difference between "usual" (where we have been for the last couple of weeks or months) and "ours" (which involves a sense of ownership and a feeling of being unfairly robbed of something if we lose it).

None of my 2 guilds ever had that feeling of "ownership" while all major guilds (and many smaller but established guilds) feel entitled to "THEIR" spot. That's the difference.

I know what you mean about the difference however I think that has way more to do with the attitude of the guild/guild leader than the old system vs. the new multi-bidding system. And I'm not sure that the new system will temper that feeling; rather it has the potential to exacerbate it because at least some guilds are struggling much more to maintain a "usual" spot which makes each disruption more contentious. People are creatures of habit, and tend to say "mine" or "ours" for that reason. Entitlement is when people insist on being compensated for their loss, or take unrealistically drastic actions to reclaim what was theirs. People can feel entitled to anything, even if there is little to no barrier of entry.

...snip...

It is not so much as entitled ownership but wanting to have a regular spot so people can find you. It's hard enough to hunt for items across the traders then you start bouncing Guilds around. Being at a stable spot helps to build sales. You get regulars that like to play in the area and shop there. Multi-bidding disrupts this. I got bumped into what you would consider a upgrade spot but sales tanked as the regulars did not follow, but sales came back up with getting back to the old spot.

So you see us say our spot or area, we are saying this is where we want to make home. It is where we prefer to be and where we believe our customers will do repeat business with us.

Extremely well put. I agree completely.

In case I wasn't clear, I don't think that liking to be in a regular spot or a home necessarily means entitlement. I think it is nice to have a "home" and I dislike the fact that my super awesome longtime trading guild is struggling to have one. I was just explaining that if people are prone to entitlement, and if this system is meant to "cure" the fact that people are feeling entitled to their spots, that people can and often do feel entitled even when there is no barrier to entry, so raising the barrier to entry doesn't get rid of that entitled feeling, if someone is the type of person to feel entitled; it just makes it worse if the feeling is there, and is probably driving some of the ridiculous bids we are seeing to force a change when economically it makes no sense.

In other words, I don't think multi-bidding is solving issues with entitlement (or any other problems, for that matter)! Instead it is wreaking havoc with small to medium guilds and our communities. From my perspective, I still fail to see any benefit from this change, only negatives:

• I must contribute more each week to my guilds, which I am willing to do but adds an extra layer of stress for me
• I must spend more time trading than I did before to feel as if I am properly contributing, which is taking away from my limited play time
• My very dedicated and super great guild leaders and officers seem more under stress
• The normal items that I sell are not moving quickly due to what I can only guess is the result of changing trader location
• I never know where guilds I shop at are going to be

My trade guilds almost always regularly had new spots for applicants, and the officers are great, and I always could meet my quotas and make some coin. Now it's harder to sell things, harder to know when and where my trader and other friendly guilds will be, and everyone is more stressed. The one thing that I am seeing from this thread is that guild leaders/officers are closing down guilds because of the pressure, and I just don't believe that there were so many people out there wanting to lead trade guilds that couldn't because of a monopoly and that multi-bidding is saving the day here.

There has to be a better solution or a way to tweak this so it isn't such a horrible experience for so many of us.

By the way, I am really glad to see this topic continuing to be active, so thank you, as a trader participant, for everyone (pro or against or neutral) who continues to visit it and report back.

Raideen

All I know is that as a customer, I like it when I can recognize the guild in that specific location.

I don't remember the name, but there was a guild that had a spot in some argonian area, they were the only trader there...way off the beaten path out in the middle of a swamp. Always found good deals there and they were my goto for some items.

Then they vanished and the new guilds wares are not as wide in variety and its just a waste of time now to visit it.

Fiktius

At PC EU there seem to be going more and more domino chains across entire Tamriel every week and it's not a joke if I say that I still keep getting new neighbors weekly basis.

Elden Root is like McDonalds of Tamriel:
Usual zone regular guilds are like burger beef. They're being bombarded with bids from above, below and from the side.
Entire zone seem to be very popular back up location.

Also guilds without alliance are having it worst:
They're being bounced back and forth and during times like these you learn to know who your friends really are.
Tho guilds which belong in alliance/have sister guilds weren't saved from multi-bidding results either and many were moved to back up location - if they did get any at first place.

Many little guilds are also having hard time. Couple friends of mine which are running smaller guilds had moments when they lost every single bid they made. Any amount of bids can't save them from increased competition they are facing now.

If developers intention behind multi-bidding was "Gold sink in Steroids", that's definitely working and goal has been reached.
I just simply can't see at which aspect this is supposed to be "quality of life" change.

Dear @ZOS_PhilipDraven, @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_KaiSchober

Would you care to give us a comment regarding these questions:

1) What was the intention behind multi-bidding change?
2) Now after U23 patch results have showed up on live servers, did you check them out and did your plan work as intended? (Not counting EU fiasco at the first week when servers did melt down.)
3) What happened with the plan of discussing about the new trade bid reset time? Is that gonna happen any time soon?

Would love to get some answers for at least some of those questions above, if not for all.

Grimm13

Fiktius wrote: »

At PC EU there seem to be going more and more domino chains across entire Tamriel every week and it's not a joke if I say that I still keep getting new neighbors weekly basis.

Elden Root is like McDonalds of Tamriel:
Usual zone regular guilds are like burger beef. They're being bombarded with bids from above, below and from the side.
Entire zone seem to be very popular back up location.

Also guilds without alliance are having it worst:
They're being bounced back and forth and during times like these you learn to know who your friends really are.
Tho guilds which belong in alliance/have sister guilds weren't saved from multi-bidding results either and many were moved to back up location - if they did get any at first place.

Many little guilds are also having hard time. Couple friends of mine which are running smaller guilds had moments when they lost every single bid they made. Any amount of bids can't save them from increased competition they are facing now.

If developers intention behind multi-bidding was "Gold sink in Steroids", that's definitely working and goal has been reached.
I just simply can't see at which aspect this is supposed to be "quality of life" change.

Dear @ZOS_PhilipDraven, @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_KaiSchober

Would you care to give us a comment regarding these questions:

1) What was the intention behind multi-bidding change?
2) Now after U23 patch results have showed up on live servers, did you check them out and did your plan work as intended? (Not counting EU fiasco at the first week when servers did melt down.)
3) What happened with the plan of discussing about the new trade bid reset time? Is that gonna happen any time soon?

Would love to get some answers for at least some of those questions above, if not for all.

4) Are you going to stop turning the Guild History on and off?

SteveCampsOut

bmnoble wrote: »

Not a GM but an update of some things happening in a few of the guilds I am in or was in at this point on PC/NA

Well recently one of the bigger guilds I was in packed it in and became a social guild, they consistently had spots in Rawlka or Mournhold, the GM had enough of doing a second job in the game more or less.

Most of those seeking a trader have moved to the sister guild, which has a spot in Mournhold.

And one of the medium sized guilds, along with one of their sister guilds merged all the members that wanted a trader with their 3 other sister guilds, due to the bidding on traders for 5 guilds becoming unsustainable.

(these are not new start up guilds either most have been operating as trade guilds since 2014 - 2016)

Resulting in 3 trade guilds no longer competing in the trader bidding and 3 near full trade guilds that are not likely to be recruiting any time soon.

TBH This is a result I'm happy to hear about! I've never been a fan of guild conglomerates having multiple traders active and keeping the prices of traders high. If this has caused a few of you guys to break up and fall out of the business that leaves more kiosks for stand alone guilds in my book. I like that result.

Dont_do_drugs

active and keeping the prices of traders high.

this is funny how clueless u are, its never been the "conglomerates" increasing or keeping prices of traders high, as long as i can think back its been newb troll jumpers. the biggies never became big by wasting gold, like u do, as example.

dvonpm

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Not a GM but an update of some things happening in a few of the guilds I am in or was in at this point on PC/NA

Well recently one of the bigger guilds I was in packed it in and became a social guild, they consistently had spots in Rawlka or Mournhold, the GM had enough of doing a second job in the game more or less.

Most of those seeking a trader have moved to the sister guild, which has a spot in Mournhold.

And one of the medium sized guilds, along with one of their sister guilds merged all the members that wanted a trader with their 3 other sister guilds, due to the bidding on traders for 5 guilds becoming unsustainable.

(these are not new start up guilds either most have been operating as trade guilds since 2014 - 2016)

Resulting in 3 trade guilds no longer competing in the trader bidding and 3 near full trade guilds that are not likely to be recruiting any time soon.

TBH This is a result I'm happy to hear about! I've never been a fan of guild conglomerates having multiple traders active and keeping the prices of traders high. If this has caused a few of you guys to break up and fall out of the business that leaves more kiosks for stand alone guilds in my book. I like that result.

I'm actually not a huge fan of it either. But that is not how all this works. The same problems the sister guilds had will happen to the next guild that tries to fill that slot. On and on, ad infinitum if the number of new trade guilds I see in zone chat every day is any indication.

It doesn't matter if they are "stand alone" guilds or not. They will have exactly the same problems the guilds that folded had.


***

Anyway, I'm excited to have them join the ranks of people that this massively sucks for lol. Join us in this misery, ye new hopefuls! I hope you like spreadsheets and unpaid part time jobs and 3 hours of angry tells and a week of good traders leaving every time you lose because you only bid 5x more than it is actually worth, based on sales.

The bids are still so insanely high in PC NA second tier zones (well, at least the one I am in but I don't think it's just us) that I am seriously thinking the only way to maintain this is crown selling. At least without increasing dues commensurate with bid increases. That would be 4-6x pre-multibid dues, conservatively. 6-8x to play it safe.

That's for prime, first off the wayshrine spots. But the second and third off the wayshrine guilds that used to be safe are going to be joining this super fun party next.

Byob cause your guild is gonna be too broke to supply any!

PS If anyone even notices that I have not left the game as promised earlier in the thread- yes my GM talked me off the ledge. Apparently I am trustworthy and do a lot of work that no one else wants to do so I am hard to replace. And yes that guilt trip totally worked. For a while.

PPS I'm glad it helped get rid of ghost guilds in PS4 or whatever, but there are other ways that could have been dealt with. Because this bs is still ridiculous 8 weeks out. Has it been 8 weeks?

jainiadral

Ugh, this sounds horrible Sorry things are still getting worse instead if settling down.

Arrodisia

reoskit wrote: »

Bids are insanely out of proportion with the market and, with DLC coming, bids are only going to go up, even though Dragonhold doesn't offer a ton of new stuff (housing patterns, for example) to sell.

This exactly.

Unfortunately, we're still seeing inflated bids at insane amounts 3-5x's and more in most areas. That kind of tax is unearnable most weeks. Most guilds of all types whether larger, midsized, smaller or just newer guilds are struggling most weeks. Imo, the system is completely out of line, when 489 active sellers, 2 major raises in requirements, GM's and officers farming, and micromanaging unhealthy hours to help raise sales, and keep their players happy each week with lotteries, events, tips and tricks with pricing and addons, .............and we still can't even reach the bids we're putting out most weeks. When you bid 3,4,5x over the average sales value of each spot and still lose, the system is out of whack.

ZOS please, help us out here. You could maybe reduce the amount of multibidding to 3x's, maybe increase the vendors in all hubs which have the extra space, maybe give guilds the tax share that the system takes, and maybe give us some better tools to manage guilds. So, we actually have some time to play the game with our guildies. Imho, one productive discussion with the trade GM's, even if only in discord together, could go a long way to shedding light on how to reduce, and possibly even eliminate the issues we're seeing. If anyone has any other ideas on how to stabilize the bids, please post them in this thread.

Best wishes and have fun in game.

Inarre

Not a GM or Officer but as a guild member in two trade guilds I can say I'm unhappy.

1. Inconsistent - Lack of "homes" for your guild traders means inconsistent sales for everyone.
2. Expensive - Increase in artificial competition means bids go up, means requirements go up for all trading guilds. It gets expensive for everyone.
3. Difficult - Extra work for everyone. Now instead of planning one bid strategy officers need to do ten times the work. Sellers also need to put in extra effort to learn their customer base each week and meet new dues or higher sales requirements in lesser locations.

Ten backup bids seems excessive. The only reason for this on zos end I can see is they want to up the coin sink for guilds.

T@rty

Having only recently been asked to run the guild trader I have to say it's been an eye opener. Even back water spots are serious coin and trying to keep a spot is almost impossible without heavily subsidizing the guild bank as sales alone do not generate enough income.

I could not help but notice the reduction in guild trader spots in many zones, which has the driven the trader bid price up in my opinion. Unless ZoS reinstate some of these old trade spots I can not see the situation improving and I for one will not be running a guild trader where I have use my own funds to support the bid.

Pevey

If every single new thing that players might actually want to buy were not a crown store exclusive, more gold would be sunk with those purchases and less pressure would be put on this ridiculous trading system.

Guild traders themselves are not a bad idea, but placing the burden of the game's ONLY functioning gold sink on it is what causes the issues that make so many dislike this system and continually call for a global auction house.