Multi-bidding so far - GM & Officers how is it for you?

Iarao

Gariele wrote: »

Maybe it’s time ZOS rework the requirements to bid on a trader.

Let’s say at 50 you can have the internal Guild store. That benefits the guild and hurts no one

But to bid on a trader you need 300 active players.

This would solve a lot of the low end issues of the guilds spending massive amounts of gold and having very little listed. It is not hard to get 300 people to join if you’re dedicated to recruiting and it would help the economy as goods would be more available than some guild that list 100 green recipes

define active. how would zos enforce that?

Iarao

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

that 300 members idea is also nuts. these days u wont be able to recuit that amount of members to form a trading guild. if ure not havong at least a small trader, nobody will join u. it wont only kill ghost kills and trolls but also people seriously trying to build up a nmew guild and seriously trying to become a competetor. which also means it will kill competetion and changes in the trading system.

perhaps allow trader bids based on member tiers? 50 and you can bid on lone traders in bfe? 100 and you get to bid on slightly better tier? and etc.

Iarao

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

hmm there might be other aspects also an option, as example the amount of listings to the guild store. this also would make it necessary, in case there are ghost guilds, that account names in that ghost guild would need to show flagg. make the amount of listings as example 10x30 or 20x30....

agree but not hard to list a lot of crap items, 1 at a time.

Iarao

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Get rid of multi-bidding and instead, start showing the previous week's winning bid at each trader. Also show the previous week's raw sales volume. Let supply and demand do what it does best.

Actually quite a nice idea. But do that 1/ on top of multibidding 2/ viewable by anyone.

sry its a bs idea for a simple reason -> u might think of the situation, once the gold inflation problem got solved, guilds will stop bidding over their income and every guild will bid what its able to. but as long as u can buy gold with crowns and guildmasters actively doing so, that idea is broken.

Maybe it's a BS idea, to be honest I haven't given it much thought (and probably won't since it's not soething that's likely to be implemented by ZOS).

But your argument about all the gold makes me think... OK, there's HUGE sums of gold being bid right now. Where does it come from ? Savings ? Excess gold from last disaster still around ? In this case, it should be all dried up soon, not much to worry.
But if it comes from crown selling... Are you serious ? Are you saying that some guys (and not only one or two) are ready to (and already do) spend hundreds of USD/EUR week after week after week just to keep a trader ? That sounds totally insane ! Are you assuming, or do you actually know some who do ?
If those guys (whom I'd diagnose are sick) truly exist, then I'd suggest to just leave them be, and simply live the happy life as a simple trader in one of their guilds. Because I don't see any of this changing, since it's $$$ for ZOS that goes straight into the gold sink, so I don't see ZOS acting against them...

gold can also be bought online. you put up some crappy item for sale for the amt of gold you bought and that is how it is delivered. this is why you see someone paying 100k for a lev 1 white item

Iarao

Iarao wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Get rid of multi-bidding and instead, start showing the previous week's winning bid at each trader. Also show the previous week's raw sales volume. Let supply and demand do what it does best.

Actually quite a nice idea. But do that 1/ on top of multibidding 2/ viewable by anyone.

sry its a bs idea for a simple reason -> u might think of the situation, once the gold inflation problem got solved, guilds will stop bidding over their income and every guild will bid what its able to. but as long as u can buy gold with crowns and guildmasters actively doing so, that idea is broken.

Maybe it's a BS idea, to be honest I haven't given it much thought (and probably won't since it's not soething that's likely to be implemented by ZOS).

But your argument about all the gold makes me think... OK, there's HUGE sums of gold being bid right now. Where does it come from ? Savings ? Excess gold from last disaster still around ? In this case, it should be all dried up soon, not much to worry.
But if it comes from crown selling... Are you serious ? Are you saying that some guys (and not only one or two) are ready to (and already do) spend hundreds of USD/EUR week after week after week just to keep a trader ? That sounds totally insane ! Are you assuming, or do you actually know some who do ?
If those guys (whom I'd diagnose are sick) truly exist, then I'd suggest to just leave them be, and simply live the happy life as a simple trader in one of their guilds. Because I don't see any of this changing, since it's $$$ for ZOS that goes straight into the gold sink, so I don't see ZOS acting against them...

gold can also be bought online. you put up some crappy item for sale for the amt of gold you bought and that is how it is delivered. this is why you see someone paying 100k for a lev 1 white item

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

angelncelestine wrote: »

If you have a crap ton of rl money to burn it isn't hard to become wealthy in a short period of time. Some of these crown sellers might be just buying up traders for the fun of it. 🤷‍♀️

Do you really think there are that many people on earth playing ESO with that level of crapton of money and nothing better to do with it... ??? I know some people are filthy rich IRL but they don't stay that rich very long if they throw the money out of the window to such an extent. And as far as I know, money doesn't grow on trees...

some would think otherwise. they spend all they get every paycheck. gotta have it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Iarao wrote: »

gold can also be bought online. you put up some crappy item for sale for the amt of gold you bought and that is how it is delivered. this is why you see someone paying 100k for a lev 1 white item

Yes, but that's illegal, whereas crown selling is a legit ingame mechanic since crown gifting is available. We're discussing systems as they are provided by ZOS - not as they are provided by black sheep like gold sellers.

reoskit

Iarao wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

that 300 members idea is also nuts. these days u wont be able to recuit that amount of members to form a trading guild. if ure not havong at least a small trader, nobody will join u. it wont only kill ghost kills and trolls but also people seriously trying to build up a nmew guild and seriously trying to become a competetor. which also means it will kill competetion and changes in the trading system.

perhaps allow trader bids based on member tiers? 50 and you can bid on lone traders in bfe? 100 and you get to bid on slightly better tier? and etc.

Prime locations are (to an extent) subjective, can vary platform to platform, and can change based on updates, such as when they allowed all writ levels to be turned in at any turn-in location. Codifying which location = which tier wouldn't work out.

What's more, guilds would (rightly so) cry foul at being locked out of a location they could otherwise afford.

Edit: wonk spacing.

Iarao

baratron wrote: »

My partner and I run around Tamriel each week recording which guild holds which Guild Trader, and also the size of the guild. We have several years of data.

Under the new system, the guilds who are getting Traders easily seem to be the ones with over 2500 items, as you'd expect. If they don't manage their main spot, they get one of their backups.

But there's also a disproportionate number of guilds with under 400 items. Given that some of these tiny guilds have taken spots that I've bid on, I know that they're paying ridiculously over the odds - far more than they could ever make back from sales taxes, and sometimes more than the total value of items in the store. There's something very wrong with the economy (or with people's hopes and expectations) when a guild is paying more to have a public store than the items in the store are even worth!

Guilds who typically have 750-1250 items seem to be struggling the most. I think a bunch of us haven't quite figured out how to play the new system, or think of our guilds as "better" than a roadside trader or Outlaws Refuge.

the under 400 guilds have bidders that dont understand finance. i would bet they dont understand it irl, either. or maybe they charge their members an outlandish fee every week. or maybe they sell crowns or buy gold online cuz they hope getting a trader in a decent spot for that one week will allow them to advertise such and get members. of course, the next week they move or dont have a trader. then it's: we lost our trader this week. buy from the store. support your guildmates. while they hope they can get another trader the next bid. and etc. i've been in a couple of these trader every 2-3 week guilds. not for long. but noobs to trader guilds may stick around a bit thinking this is just how it goes.

Iarao

daemonios wrote: »

Cani wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Here is how to fix it.


Add a global Ah.


Problem solved. This issue is stupid. This ah system is stupid. A reason why MMOs have a global ah.

They also have constant Inflation, from what I've heard

That is not on the ah. It's on the developers. Gold sinks can come in many ways, shapes and forms. Trader bids are just one of them.

It's also on the developers to prevent too much money from entering the economy in the first place, yet we have money printing activities such as daily writs paying almost 5k gold per character, per day, for a 2-minute effort (using add-ons).

not to mention we get gold as a log in gift.

Iarao

hiyde wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

1) Trader system was made when a faction wall was in place.
2) They have never made any provisions to have guilds larger than 500.
3) No advance tools to mange a larger guild or multiple guilds.
4) They have never referenced a guild larger than 500 in their guides.
5) If they had intended for guilds to be larger, they would have done so (It's been asked for)

Deducted reasoning follows that they did not. As for them expecting or stating that they did, here is what follows that.

OK I'll bite:

1) You do realize that the "wall" only existed until people completed Cadwell's Silver and started Cadwell's gold?

2) Nor have they ever said that the same management cannot run more than 1 guild

3) No advanced tools to manage even 1 trade guild lol

4) See #2

5) See #2

Bonus answer:
*Your* "deducted" reasoning brought YOU to that conclusion. My deductive reasoning tells me that if they didn't want the same management running more than one guild, it wouldn't be possible to be an officer in more than one guild (or maybe even be a member of more than one guild?)

it would be possible if you had alt accts. i know you cannot run more than 1 guild per acct, unless that changed at some point. so to run more than one you need multi accts. your mgmt team could also have more than 1 acct and you can then duplicate it for more than 1 guild run by the same team.

Iarao

tahol10069 wrote: »

Cani wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Here is how to fix it.


Add a global Ah.


Problem solved. This issue is stupid. This ah system is stupid. A reason why MMOs have a global ah.

They also have constant Inflation, from what I've heard

So you have never experienced a game with AH? Go and try one. You won't want to come back to this insanity. This trading system is from Satan. I have no other explanation for someone coming up with this idiocy.

RIFT made some changes to its ah. can't remember what. not sure how all that worked out. i can tell you that it lowered the price of my main sale items. i just can't remember all the specifics.

Iarao

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont thinl that needs to be discussed here. guilds having partner or sister guilds is i guess pretty normal on all platforms and actually also natural. some people get along, some people do not get along, sometimes the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend and so on. the actually trade guild managing community is small. so small its normal that people start to get to know each other and start to get along with each other or sometimes not and its normal its ending in diplomatics. i do agree sometimes that situation gets a bit "overused", but in general u cannot forbid people to befriend, as as example an officer of yours starting to like that content and building an own trade guild.

guys, get over the cartel and conglomerate stuff. even the lowest 0815 guilds in mid and low tier spots have partner guilds and keep ties to other guilds. some openly commnicate that and let other people know about that ties and get hated on then, others do it in secret. even before the first open alliance had been "announced" on pc eu, there were already multiple guilds forming friend-groups with not bidding each other. u just dont bid a guild whose gm u personally like, get over it.

I would add to all this that, in my guild, we don't bid on other kiosks because we want the spot we've maintained. We don't want to start a war. We don't want to risk losing a good spot in order to screw some other guild out a spot that's probably not much better than the one we have. It has nothing to with with alliances. We are happy where we are and don't want to mess with other guilds, period.

This system is forcing us into conflicts with other guilds that we don't want to have and wouldn't otherwise have, and would have no reason to even interact with, much less form a shadow cabal. And it still costs more.

Wow, that's crazy though, you should at least multi bid on some spots that have constant turnover or are used by guilds with no inventory. Otherwise you could be without a spot, and that can kill a guild.

Oh, we are absolutely multibidding. Still lost all of them at 2.5x or more last week's bids....

But we wouldn't bid on any of those traders ever if we weren't forced to. Ever. No cabal theory needed to make us want to stay in the spot we've always been in.

And I actively resent having to mess with other guilds whose spots we don't want and whose trade we have no interest in interfering with. And with whom we might even share members. That it is downright infuriating and forcing us to punch down doesn't mean we aren't doing what we have to survive. But it sucks.

Do you realise the disconnect in your post? In this system, a guild doesn't own any trader, ever. Yet you say you don't want to mess with some other guilds' spots. This alone, to me, is proof that the guild trader system is rotten to its core.

i think just trying to nice. sharing.

Dont_do_drugs

could u please sum ur answers up to one comment?

Iarao

Urigall wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

Straying off topic here (I am anyway) Getting rid of guilds takes away - at a stroke - what is, in some cases, years of work of running a guild. Is that fair treatment? Several hundred members per guild could find themselves without an activity they enjoy. Disclosure - I'm one of the latter group. Is that, in itself, justified? Both of these are subjective matters, albeit ones that will yield ready answers of either yes or no. On the basis of fair treatment, it seems wholly wrong - to me - to wipe out years of hard work and to prevent players taking part in their chosen activity. That's a subjective opinion but life often requires us to give opinions as opposed to facts. And yes, ESO is much more than trading. Equally, trading is a big part of ESO for thousands of players (don't ask me for empirical numbers though)

Although negative sentiment doesn't lend itself to calculation, it is, nevertheless, something all commercial entities have to consider. How the entity is perceived, continuing to be a customer and so on - these are all related to customer sentiment. Getting rid of guilds would generate a huge amount of negative sentiment. Any commercial entity would think long and hard before deliberately pissing off a large part of its customer base. From a purely commercial standpoint, scrapping guilds overnight would not be a decision taken without good reason. So far, we don't have a good enough reason. Yes, trading is messed up (partly) purely because a few players are screwing around. Remove those few players and we would have far less aggro. The system would work. And the trading system has been running for years, so ZoS seem to support it in preference to an AH.

Are buyers disadvantaged by the kiosk system? Only if they can't be bothered searching for an item and travelling around. The flip side is getting it without any trouble. I prefer having to expend a bit of effort to achieve something but I'm an old school kind of guy. Dinosaurs like me will probably be extinct in a generation or so. Which leads me back to your comment about everyone being able to sell.

Everyone being able to sell is another version of getting something without expending effort. ESO requires players to jump through all sorts of hoops in order to carry out quests. Joining a guild - and working to maintain ones place therein - is just another hoop to jump through, in order to be allowed to participate in trading. From a purely immersion point of view, I'm agin people being able to sell stuff, without having to go to the trouble (not that there's much trouble involved) of participating in a guild. I make gold through trading because I expend effort. If others want to make gold they should have to do the same.

well people spam chat with wares to sell. i read somewhere in the forums a suggestion of having a side by side system of traders and an ah cuz many just dont wanna be in a guild at all, and some just dont have enough stuff to sell on a regular basis to fill 30 slots or the gear isnt 160. this could be a place that lower levels could find gear to buy and a place to sell gear that drops. in order to not cannibalize the traders too much, zos would need to put a small limit on the number of items you could put in the ah. we have 30 slots in a trader, so maybe 10-15 in a side by side ah? let everyone, incl trader members list in the ah. you would still have to pay the same listing fee and the tax would go to zos, so no extra profit from using the ah to list.

Iarao

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

In the long run, you're surely correct. But recall what Keynes said about the long run. Or, if you can't recall it off the top of your head, please don't lecture anybody else about economics.

I had to look it up.

The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again.

keynesian economics. ugh.

Iarao

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

'''

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Yes, how DARE those guilds, not even created as trading guilds, not even managed as trading guilds, not even labeled as trading guilds, and, most of all, not approved by the big conglomerates, how DARE they speak up, how DARE they bid on a guild trader, how DARE they operate at loss as long as they can, how DARE they step on your lawn. HOW DARE THEY ?
Because, this is your lawn, right ? Not your personal lawn, DDD, but the exclusive lawn of big, established, rich, powerful and influential trading guilds. Oh no, not even that. Not the guilds, but their GMs and officers (because of course, the normal peasant knows nothing about anything regarding bidding and trading). And how DARE ZOS implement changes to the system without seeking your approval first. How DARE THEY ? People these days...

It's about a time to take a chill pill.

Look, there is a massive difference in the perspective where these guilds are looking the situation.
I will use a few examples, so it should be easier to understand what I try to say with this:

Guild A: Big trading guild in A tier location.

Guild B: Medium sized trading guild in B tier location.

Guild C: Small sized trading guild in C tier location.

Guild D: A guild which is not focused on trading, yet do try to hire a trader weekly basis for providing a guild trader for their community on the side.

Now let's put a Sherlock hat on and consider which guilds are most impacted:

Does Guild A suffer most?
- Nope. They've existed for years. Most of them got strong & experienced guild cores with massive weekly sale numbers.
Not to mention existing warchest, which they've gathered during several years they've existed.
Do they have to bid higher? Very high likely. They may loose their prime spot if they bid too low, but their back up bids are high enough to deal with this inconvenience they have to deal with if they get pushed to secondary location. Otherwise they are quite fine and that's very unlikely to change.

Does Guild B suffer most?
- Probably not the most, but Guild B is now in the sandwich situation: Opportunist smaller guilds got a risk removed.
They are free to try to outbid another guild as primary bid and still place secondary bid at their previous spot at smaller tier zone. Meanwhile if guild A somehow manages to drop on secondary location, Guild B is more likely going to loose a spot and get knocked to secondary location. And guess in what kind of location back ups of this kind of guilds are located at?

Does Guild C suffer most?
- There, this tier is the one who will have to take the bullet. Small trade guilds which just try to have a trader somewhere, but have no serious way to deal with a competition, which comes from above via domino chain. Such a good place to be, right?
ZOS do not give a flying cow either, so weeks are turning out to be miserable for Guild C more often.

How about Guild D then?
- They are often bidding on location, which is not desired by actual trade guilds more often, so it's easier to win a trader in location like Outlaw Refugees. Multi-bidding is very good thing for guilds like this, so no wonder why they do like the change.

TL:DR summary:

Your guild type and location does have a massive impact how guild GMs are viewing multi-bidding results.
It's easier to be self-centered and just focus on own guild and their success, but when you take an objective look around you, multi-bidding might not be one of the brightest ideas developers had during this year.

You forgot about type E

Type E Guild

Typical everyday PVE social guild who get a trader at a loss for the good of their members (so far like type D), however they have access to almost unlimited funds to teach Type A a badly needed lesson in humility by removing them from their top spot for as long as they see fit if they forget that this is just a game and start coming on here throwing their imaginary weight around.

TL/DR
It's not advised to pick a fight with someone when you have no idea what they have on their back bar!

and then only have 100 items for sale at said type a location. :P

ReallyRilee

So, I haven't read this entire thread and I probably won't. I sincerely doubt anyone from ZOS who has the power to change anything will read this, but I'm hoping at least one moderator will read this and try to understand.

This new system is horribly toxic and chaotic. First, ZOS has essentially made it impossible for small trade guilds to exist, you know, the ones that were located at outlier traders. With this new bidding system, the big trade guilds will put all of their bids up which will include less than top tier locations. We'll call those middle tier spots. Those middle tier spots will now have to also bid on low tier spots (we'll say those are the outliers). So now you have a somewhat guarantee that all top tier trade guilds will have a spot. Those guilds will outbid the medium tier guilds for their spot. The medium tier guilds will outbid the low tier guilds for their spot. The low tier guilds are left without a trader. This is a simplification of it, but there it is.

And while you're thinking that the outlier trader locations can't be sustained with hefty bids, they don't really need to. Next week that guild that wound up there will bid even more at a better spot - and the cycle will go round. These outlier locations are now "fall backs" for guilds that have enough capital to play the trade game still. Guilds looking to become trade guilds or already small trade guilds have no way to compete with these other guilds. They can't really "raise their dues" as those locations aren't sustainable enough to maintain them. I know that outliers are going for well over a million gold right now, which is insane.

Aside from small guilds getting removed, this is also forcing an incredibly toxic mindset on players. I know of multiple trade guilds who are now "at war" with each other. Hateful things are said and shady practices of trying to figure out bids are used. But even more than that, the leadership of trade guilds are forced to think of the people in them as a paycheck, a number. Dues are being raised (this isn't really all that bad), but people are being pried for more gold. The loyalty I felt towards a trade guild that I considered a home is starting to disappear as guilds are scrambling to earn every gold they can to maintain a soaring bid price.

So let's talk about the people in these guilds some more. Let's say your guild doesn't get their spot, or any spot. The sprawl adds up, you still need to sell and make gold. So you join some other trade guild in a good location to sell, for the week. The turnover in these guilds is going to be extremely high. People will join for the week, then go back to their old guild, or just keep cycling to whichever guild is in the best spot. I'm not sure what type of strain holding inventory in your mail has on the actual server, but if it does strain it, that's going to increase.

I feel like people have voiced these concerns well before the update went live, but it appears to have fallen on deaf ears. I understand that not everyone will agree with my view and there is differently gray area and room to argue, but for me, this is how I see it.

For me, the new norm is going to be a chaotic mix of guild ranks growing and shrinking, as well as hateful attitudes towards other trade guilds vying for your guild's location. I'm not looking for answers or excuses or explanations, I'm just voicing my opinion on this matter. I hope it may help others understand the chaos.

-Rilee

Edit: I forgot to mention the reason I know that outlier bids are unsustainable is because my outlier trade guild closed up shop today. They couldn't keep up with the soaring bids of the guilds using that location as a last resort fallback.

Edit Edit: My trade guild locations are in Rawl'kha, Vivec City, Elden Root, and Dune.

SammiSakura

I have literally not read this entire thread yet as its soooo long, but I can't say im enjoying the new system, even if I have successfully moved my Guild to a better spot, which I was going to do even before this announcement. Bids are still insane in some places, sales are a bit meh, and yeah, many of us have had to ask for extra fees etc to help cover the cost of inflated bids. It might go back down in time, we can only hope really.
I'll catch up on the previous 10 pages later x

Cavedog

I'm not a GM, but I am a heavy trader in two major trade guilds. I can say for certain that I have not heard ANYONE say anything positive about the multi bidding system. It should be cut back to a maximum of three bids at the very least.

It should be scrapped. In this case, a rollback would be helpful please.

jainiadral

.

StabbityDoom wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Again this would have been not a issue if we had global ah, and let everyone be able to sell.

So - my guild is in Mournhold, arguably one of the more desirable cities in which to sell. I currently have approximately 30 available member slots. We do not charge dues nor do we have sales minimums.

I'm sure my guild is not the only one with space, nor the only one that doesn't charge fees/minimums.

If one of your five guild spots is free, what's stopping you (or anyone) from selling?

The fact people don't like joining guilds?

Or we can take the power away from guilds and let everyone sell like many of the better mmos do.

Can I ask why you don't want to join a guild? There's no requirement to actually interface with anyone; plenty of the people in my guild never speak with anyone. You can turn off the guild's chat, sell through the store, done. There's no impact to your play, as far as I can tell.

I'm truly curious, not attempting to be antagonistic.

Just speaking as someone who isn't exactly guild material and tried a stint in a trading guild:

1. The second you log in and the MOTD changes, you get an annoying notification. For my guild, it was constant messages about raffles or "get selling or get kicked." Getting greeted with that set an unpleasant tone for the rest of my play session.
2. I felt too guilty to shut off guild chat especially after I got an unwelcome promotion to officer after a good sales week. So I'd be off doing some quest and someone would be recruiting for a trial. Over and over. It was just disruptive to my lone wolf zen
3. There's this sense of obligation and commitment even in no-fees guilds. I'd always force myself to remember to make a donation when I was at the bank, and in the proper denomination since I hate raffles.

Bottom line, I like my freedom and I hate feeling tied down.

Thank you for the insight; these things make sense. Just in response, not countering:

1 - MOTDs are a good example of play interference and I forgot about them. I stage my MOTD updates in a private guild and then transfer over when I'm sure-ish they're right to avoid updating too much. That flashing notification icon is a bit like whack-a-mole, no? While the MOTD tool is helpful for communication, perhaps there's value in ZOS adding a base UI option (non-addon) to hide the notifications, like leaderboards.

(I'm sure some GMs/officers won't like this suggestion - but IMO if your guildies hate your MOTD notifications, it would be better they turned it off rather than continually building resentment with your guild.)

2 - Who on Nirn bumps guildies to officer involuntarily simply based on sales? Unless they use their officer chat as some sort of VIP sellers club?

Anyway, I totally get the lone-wolf thing. Even as a GM, I go offline and switch to a chat channel that *only* has NPC chatter, and go do my own thing - housing, questing, just farming in peace & quiet... It ensures I keep enjoying ESO.

3 - It sounds like you're great guild material. ;P

Thanks again for the response.

Haha, well, I apparently had officer authority even if I wasn't ever called one. That may have been a relic of an ancient time within the guild but I really don't know *shrug* I only talked to the GM three or four times, one of those when I was recruited. I think I had the authority to kick people-- I remember seeing the control once when I tried to teleport to a guildie. After that, I was way too paranoid to use the TP functions in case I accidentally moused to the wrong choice

Anyway, thanks for the compliment I did my best, but guilds have been a big driver in burning me out on games. There's that psychic feeling of being tied down.

Cuz I'm as free as a bird now, and this bird will never change

I think you'd do better with a different guild :P

Heh, I just saw this Nope! I've done three guilds in SWTOR, all full of very nice people, and all demanding in their own ways. I'd join, then go out of my way never to log onto that toon again The only guild I ever lasted in was my personal guild in GW2. I only made it to avoid guild spam lol

Guilds and I are a bad mix so I just spare everyone the pain-- especially me

dvonpm

Moonfalcon462 wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

dvonpm wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont thinl that needs to be discussed here. guilds having partner or sister guilds is i guess pretty normal on all platforms and actually also natural. some people get along, some people do not get along, sometimes the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend and so on. the actually trade guild managing community is small. so small its normal that people start to get to know each other and start to get along with each other or sometimes not and its normal its ending in diplomatics. i do agree sometimes that situation gets a bit "overused", but in general u cannot forbid people to befriend, as as example an officer of yours starting to like that content and building an own trade guild.

guys, get over the cartel and conglomerate stuff. even the lowest 0815 guilds in mid and low tier spots have partner guilds and keep ties to other guilds. some openly commnicate that and let other people know about that ties and get hated on then, others do it in secret. even before the first open alliance had been "announced" on pc eu, there were already multiple guilds forming friend-groups with not bidding each other. u just dont bid a guild whose gm u personally like, get over it.

I would add to all this that, in my guild, we don't bid on other kiosks because we want the spot we've maintained. We don't want to start a war. We don't want to risk losing a good spot in order to screw some other guild out a spot that's probably not much better than the one we have. It has nothing to with with alliances. We are happy where we are and don't want to mess with other guilds, period.

This system is forcing us into conflicts with other guilds that we don't want to have and wouldn't otherwise have, and would have no reason to even interact with, much less form a shadow cabal. And it still costs more.

Wow, that's crazy though, you should at least multi bid on some spots that have constant turnover or are used by guilds with no inventory. Otherwise you could be without a spot, and that can kill a guild.

Oh, we are absolutely multibidding. Still lost all of them at 2.5x or more last week's bids....

But we wouldn't bid on any of those traders ever if we weren't forced to. Ever. No cabal theory needed to make us want to stay in the spot we've always been in.

And I actively resent having to mess with other guilds whose spots we don't want and whose trade we have no interest in interfering with. And with whom we might even share members. That it is downright infuriating and forcing us to punch down doesn't mean we aren't doing what we have to survive. But it sucks.

Do you realise the disconnect in your post? In this system, a guild doesn't own any trader, ever. Yet you say you don't want to mess with some other guilds' spots. This alone, to me, is proof that the guild trader system is rotten to its core.

It's not a disconnect if you realize that there is no benefit to starting a bidding war for a lateral move. I honestly do not understand why you think guilds would want to risk moving all over map every week or why not wanting that chaos is an indication of some evil rot.

The only reason this idea makes sense, that I can think of anyway, is that you expect all guilds to be furiously trying to get into better spots. And that if we aren't it's only because we can't, because cabals or whatever. That's not true. Please clarify if there is something else you are getting it, because I'm not seeing it.

My guild has a spot that we like and we want to keep it and will do what we can within reason and ethics to keep it. That isn't the bidding system, that's a basic fact of life. It's the same reason business don't just randomly move across the street for no reason. Or attempt hostile takeovers of properties they can't afford.

I'm honestly just baffled about what you think should be happening.

It's a freaking auction system! Yet you treat it as fixed spots for the same guild, week in, week out. I understand *why* you do it, but it does show that the trader system is a farce.

Ok. There are many threads dedicated to that topic. This one really isn't.

And you get to decide that... why, exactly? This thread is about multi-bidding. I and others have noted how it's exposed flaws in the guild trader system. Don't like it? You don't have to reply to me

To people who want an AH, every trade guild discussion is an excuse to beat that dead horse. But hey, enjoy the dead horse beating

Wanting world-wide linked auction houses is beating a dead horse?

No, making every discussion about trade guilds into a discussion about auction houses is beating a dead horse.

They are 2 different problems and 2 different discussions, that is all.

Bladerunner1

Member here on PC.

Multiple bidding seems lame.

From the looks of it now we're "keeping up with the Joneses" by having a weekly mandatory fee, instead of just voluntary raffles in order to afford multiple bids. Don't know if I can wing it

Maybe time to drop and just use world chat to sell the one thing I sell

dvonpm

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

'''

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Yes, how DARE those guilds, not even created as trading guilds, not even managed as trading guilds, not even labeled as trading guilds, and, most of all, not approved by the big conglomerates, how DARE they speak up, how DARE they bid on a guild trader, how DARE they operate at loss as long as they can, how DARE they step on your lawn. HOW DARE THEY ?
Because, this is your lawn, right ? Not your personal lawn, DDD, but the exclusive lawn of big, established, rich, powerful and influential trading guilds. Oh no, not even that. Not the guilds, but their GMs and officers (because of course, the normal peasant knows nothing about anything regarding bidding and trading). And how DARE ZOS implement changes to the system without seeking your approval first. How DARE THEY ? People these days...

It's about a time to take a chill pill.

Look, there is a massive difference in the perspective where these guilds are looking the situation.
I will use a few examples, so it should be easier to understand what I try to say with this:

Guild A: Big trading guild in A tier location.

Guild B: Medium sized trading guild in B tier location.

Guild C: Small sized trading guild in C tier location.

Guild D: A guild which is not focused on trading, yet do try to hire a trader weekly basis for providing a guild trader for their community on the side.

Now let's put a Sherlock hat on and consider which guilds are most impacted:

Does Guild A suffer most?
- Nope. They've existed for years. Most of them got strong & experienced guild cores with massive weekly sale numbers.
Not to mention existing warchest, which they've gathered during several years they've existed.
Do they have to bid higher? Very high likely. They may loose their prime spot if they bid too low, but their back up bids are high enough to deal with this inconvenience they have to deal with if they get pushed to secondary location. Otherwise they are quite fine and that's very unlikely to change.

Does Guild B suffer most?
- Probably not the most, but Guild B is now in the sandwich situation: Opportunist smaller guilds got a risk removed.
They are free to try to outbid another guild as primary bid and still place secondary bid at their previous spot at smaller tier zone. Meanwhile if guild A somehow manages to drop on secondary location, Guild B is more likely going to loose a spot and get knocked to secondary location. And guess in what kind of location back ups of this kind of guilds are located at?

Does Guild C suffer most?
- There, this tier is the one who will have to take the bullet. Small trade guilds which just try to have a trader somewhere, but have no serious way to deal with a competition, which comes from above via domino chain. Such a good place to be, right?
ZOS do not give a flying cow either, so weeks are turning out to be miserable for Guild C more often.

How about Guild D then?
- They are often bidding on location, which is not desired by actual trade guilds more often, so it's easier to win a trader in location like Outlaw Refugees. Multi-bidding is very good thing for guilds like this, so no wonder why they do like the change.

TL:DR summary:

Your guild type and location does have a massive impact how guild GMs are viewing multi-bidding results.
It's easier to be self-centered and just focus on own guild and their success, but when you take an objective look around you, multi-bidding might not be one of the brightest ideas developers had during this year.

You forgot about type E

Type E Guild

Typical everyday PVE social guild who get a trader at a loss for the good of their members (so far like type D), however they have access to almost unlimited funds to teach Type A a badly needed lesson in humility by removing them from their top spot for as long as they see fit if they forget that this is just a game and start coming on here throwing their imaginary weight around.

TL/DR
It's not advised to pick a fight with someone when you have no idea what they have on their back bar!

You mean troll guilds.

I think it's bizarre that you think intentionally making the game suck for hundreds or even thousands of people is teaching them a lesson in humility.

The troll guilds could keep the spots if they worked for it. They don't. It's not about humility, it's about the momentary high of a power trip. In other words, trolls.

OsManiaC

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Member here on PC.

Multiple bidding seems lame.

From the looks of it now we're "keeping up with the Joneses" by having a weekly mandatory fee, instead of just voluntary raffles in order to afford multiple bids. Don't know if I can wing it

Maybe time to drop and just use world chat to sell the one thing I sell

I am waiting for outrage soon as people will be mad with all these fees. good thing majority of members understand that fees are mandotary for some of the guilds now. ( all the guys who implemented was right in my pov)

Mathius_Mordred

dvonpm wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

'''

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Love it, we are now winning a trader every week.

skyrim red shirts or what guild?

My guild is Skyrim Red Shirts, you can find us on our website and in the Daggerfall Outlaw's Refuge this week.

so u bragg with getting a guild trader each week while ur signature tells, that your guild isnt even about trading, not even as a side aspect, its not even mentioned that u trade in the last spot of the things u do....

Yes, how DARE those guilds, not even created as trading guilds, not even managed as trading guilds, not even labeled as trading guilds, and, most of all, not approved by the big conglomerates, how DARE they speak up, how DARE they bid on a guild trader, how DARE they operate at loss as long as they can, how DARE they step on your lawn. HOW DARE THEY ?
Because, this is your lawn, right ? Not your personal lawn, DDD, but the exclusive lawn of big, established, rich, powerful and influential trading guilds. Oh no, not even that. Not the guilds, but their GMs and officers (because of course, the normal peasant knows nothing about anything regarding bidding and trading). And how DARE ZOS implement changes to the system without seeking your approval first. How DARE THEY ? People these days...

It's about a time to take a chill pill.

Look, there is a massive difference in the perspective where these guilds are looking the situation.
I will use a few examples, so it should be easier to understand what I try to say with this:

Guild A: Big trading guild in A tier location.

Guild B: Medium sized trading guild in B tier location.

Guild C: Small sized trading guild in C tier location.

Guild D: A guild which is not focused on trading, yet do try to hire a trader weekly basis for providing a guild trader for their community on the side.

Now let's put a Sherlock hat on and consider which guilds are most impacted:

Does Guild A suffer most?
- Nope. They've existed for years. Most of them got strong & experienced guild cores with massive weekly sale numbers.
Not to mention existing warchest, which they've gathered during several years they've existed.
Do they have to bid higher? Very high likely. They may loose their prime spot if they bid too low, but their back up bids are high enough to deal with this inconvenience they have to deal with if they get pushed to secondary location. Otherwise they are quite fine and that's very unlikely to change.

Does Guild B suffer most?
- Probably not the most, but Guild B is now in the sandwich situation: Opportunist smaller guilds got a risk removed.
They are free to try to outbid another guild as primary bid and still place secondary bid at their previous spot at smaller tier zone. Meanwhile if guild A somehow manages to drop on secondary location, Guild B is more likely going to loose a spot and get knocked to secondary location. And guess in what kind of location back ups of this kind of guilds are located at?

Does Guild C suffer most?
- There, this tier is the one who will have to take the bullet. Small trade guilds which just try to have a trader somewhere, but have no serious way to deal with a competition, which comes from above via domino chain. Such a good place to be, right?
ZOS do not give a flying cow either, so weeks are turning out to be miserable for Guild C more often.

How about Guild D then?
- They are often bidding on location, which is not desired by actual trade guilds more often, so it's easier to win a trader in location like Outlaw Refugees. Multi-bidding is very good thing for guilds like this, so no wonder why they do like the change.

TL:DR summary:

Your guild type and location does have a massive impact how guild GMs are viewing multi-bidding results.
It's easier to be self-centered and just focus on own guild and their success, but when you take an objective look around you, multi-bidding might not be one of the brightest ideas developers had during this year.

You forgot about type E

Type E Guild

Typical everyday PVE social guild who get a trader at a loss for the good of their members (so far like type D), however they have access to almost unlimited funds to teach Type A a badly needed lesson in humility by removing them from their top spot for as long as they see fit if they forget that this is just a game and start coming on here throwing their imaginary weight around.

TL/DR
It's not advised to pick a fight with someone when you have no idea what they have on their back bar!

You mean troll guilds.

I think it's bizarre that you think intentionally making the game suck for hundreds or even thousands of people is teaching them a lesson in humility.

The troll guilds could keep the spots if they worked for it. They don't. It's not about humility, it's about the momentary high of a power trip. In other words, trolls.

You need to read the post that this was a response to.

Bam_Bam

Interesting article on the trading system....

https://massivelyop.com/2019/09/11/tamriel-infinium-the-elder-scrolls-onlines-economy-needs-a-casual-friendly-option/

reoskit

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Interesting article on the trading system....

https://massivelyop.com/2019/09/11/tamriel-infinium-the-elder-scrolls-onlines-economy-needs-a-casual-friendly-option/

Interesting read. The article ends with the same refrain I keep seeing in the forums; can we talk about the "rich get richer" concept? I wholeheartedly agree with the "poor get poorer" part - no doubt. The shin-kick to small/mid tier trade guilds was the top of my day-one list of why multibidding is a terrible system.

I'm mystified, though, by this misconception that multibidding is somehow lining the pockets of top tier guilds.

Across the board, bids have skyrocketed. That includes, very much so, the top trading hubs. I can't speak for other guilds, but I know my bids in Mournhold are significantly higher than pre-multibidding.

Yes, top tiers may have the funds to bid strong on backups. But, I can't really recall many of us (at least on PCNA) losing our bids prior to multibidding; now, we're just paying more for the same kiosk retention rate.

Remember: just because we're spending more on our bids doesn't mean our sales are any stronger. I said it over and over again in the PTS feedback - no one wins with this system. We (all?) are spending more for our kiosks without the benefit of increased sales.

Are top tiers in the best position with multibidding? With a solid warchest and significantly increased fundraising, sure. That doesn't actually make this system a win for us.

MLGProPlayer

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

could u please sum ur answers up to one comment?

Global AH

Dont_do_drugs

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

could u please sum ur answers up to one comment?

Global AH

and it really needed 20 long comments in a row for this? sry, didnt read him. too much. congratz for doing so.

Veinblood1965

Iarao wrote: »

Iarao wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Get rid of multi-bidding and instead, start showing the previous week's winning bid at each trader. Also show the previous week's raw sales volume. Let supply and demand do what it does best.

Actually quite a nice idea. But do that 1/ on top of multibidding 2/ viewable by anyone.

sry its a bs idea for a simple reason -> u might think of the situation, once the gold inflation problem got solved, guilds will stop bidding over their income and every guild will bid what its able to. but as long as u can buy gold with crowns and guildmasters actively doing so, that idea is broken.

Maybe it's a BS idea, to be honest I haven't given it much thought (and probably won't since it's not soething that's likely to be implemented by ZOS).

But your argument about all the gold makes me think... OK, there's HUGE sums of gold being bid right now. Where does it come from ? Savings ? Excess gold from last disaster still around ? In this case, it should be all dried up soon, not much to worry.
But if it comes from crown selling... Are you serious ? Are you saying that some guys (and not only one or two) are ready to (and already do) spend hundreds of USD/EUR week after week after week just to keep a trader ? That sounds totally insane ! Are you assuming, or do you actually know some who do ?
If those guys (whom I'd diagnose are sick) truly exist, then I'd suggest to just leave them be, and simply live the happy life as a simple trader in one of their guilds. Because I don't see any of this changing, since it's $$$ for ZOS that goes straight into the gold sink, so I don't see ZOS acting against them...

gold can also be bought online. you put up some crappy item for sale for the amt of gold you bought and that is how it is delivered. this is why you see someone paying 100k for a lev 1 white item

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

angelncelestine wrote: »

If you have a crap ton of rl money to burn it isn't hard to become wealthy in a short period of time. Some of these crown sellers might be just buying up traders for the fun of it. 🤷‍♀️

Do you really think there are that many people on earth playing ESO with that level of crapton of money and nothing better to do with it... ??? I know some people are filthy rich IRL but they don't stay that rich very long if they throw the money out of the window to such an extent. And as far as I know, money doesn't grow on trees...

some would think otherwise. they spend all they get every paycheck. gotta have it.

NC