That's what happens when someone suggests fixing a design flaw someone else like to exploit for their benefit .. BTW 'exploit' means 'makes use of' for those whose English is challenged, of who there are many on MMO forums, not everything that's exploited is an 'exploit' as called out by the developers.Vercingetorix wrote: »yet you seem to paint this need for changing the score system as an attack.
How is the current scoring system a “design flaw”? It’s a game that runs 24/7, and one that is played by people who have widely varying work schedules. You simply cannot balance score gains around such a varied player base. To have your efforts only count towards the campaign score some of the time is ridiculous. The OP’s amended 6 hour bracket idea is no better than the original idea of a daily score cap. If I’m putting in the effort for my alliance, I darn well want that effort to count towards the outcome of the campaign — no matter what time of the day it is, or how far ahead/behind my alliance is. How the heck is implementing score caps supposed to incentivize faction loyalty and commitment to the campaign?
I’m a 12 hour shift worker. If someone tells me that my efforts are going to count for less, just because I’m playing during “off-peak” hours on my days/nights off, that’s someone who’s going to lose my respect very quickly.
Once again a thread highlighting a real issue that is actually ruining PvP on some servers and once again more idiots trying to explain that time zones are a thing as if no one knows what time zones are. Let me try and make it as clear as possible to you people. Nightcapping exists, it’s a very big problem on EU servers specially where the server peaks at roughly similar times (due to the time zones you people love to bring up). Groups are using the fact that the server peaks at a certain time to jump on one alliance, do their PvDoor and take all the keeps, scrolls and Emp completely unopposed. It is completely disrespectful to everyone who put in work during the day and it ruins the end result of the campaign because the scoring ticks as normal even when the server is almost empty. I’m not sure how many threads like this need to be brought up until people actually start to actually use their brain and see the issue.
It is not ruining PvP. It is Cyrodiil as it was designed. Some people seem to have a view that Cyrodiil is intended to be competitive PvP to begin with which is incorrect.
Vercingetorix wrote: »You are missing the point entirely. A faction that can consistently flip a map unopposed makes for a very unfun experience for everyone involved. You sound like another person currently benefiting from the scoring system's flaws. With my proposal, your contributions still matter and you still contribute to your faction's progress - but to a degree within 4 6-hour cycles. If your faction hits the 6-hour cap, then your faction can continue to work towards helping the folks who play after you in the next 6-hour cycle. In all cases, your AP isn't touched but your ability to automatically win a campaign because half the planet is sleeping is no longer valid. You can keep up with "dayshift's" progress at night but you won't gain an unfair advantage over them while they are away. If your faction is behind in score after your shift is done, it will be up to folks in your faction during "dayshift" to slow down the leading faction's progress so that your "nightshift" can gain a lead in scoreboard.
Now, with all that said...
If you are one of the dregs complaining because you can no longer automatically get tier 3 1st place rewards without effort every 30 days on 10+ toons - then yes, my solution gets rid of that tactic entirely because it's toxic, against the spirit of competition, and pushes players away from the game.
Once again a thread highlighting a real issue that is actually ruining PvP on some servers and once again more idiots trying to explain that time zones are a thing as if no one knows what time zones are. Let me try and make it as clear as possible to you people. Nightcapping exists, it’s a very big problem on EU servers specially where the server peaks at roughly similar times (due to the time zones you people love to bring up). Groups are using the fact that the server peaks at a certain time to jump on one alliance, do their PvDoor and take all the keeps, scrolls and Emp completely unopposed. It is completely disrespectful to everyone who put in work during the day and it ruins the end result of the campaign because the scoring ticks as normal even when the server is almost empty. I’m not sure how many threads like this need to be brought up until people actually start to actually use their brain and see the issue.
It is not ruining PvP. It is Cyrodiil as it was designed. Some people seem to have a view that Cyrodiil is intended to be competitive PvP to begin with which is incorrect.
I don’t think Cyrodiil was designed with PvDoor in mind but sure let’s just pretend it was for argument sake. People are suggesting very good ideas on how to improve the very flawed system we have with the PvP campaigns but their suggestions keep getting shot down by same weak excuse of of an argument about “time zones” when there’s already proof that some servers peak at basically the same time. Pretending that the way Cyrodiil was “designed” is good is terrible for the game specially because of all the issues the campaigns have will never get fixed if people start pretending that everything is so wonderful and nothing is wrong.
Nope, you're being intentionally dishonest.I see that "adding further details to an idea that was previously only briefly described" is now considered being "intentionally misleading". OK, then.Vercingetorix wrote: »@PizzaCat82
@Aurielle
No, the capped daily score would be stagnated every 6 hours during the day. What this means is that no one timezone can gain an unfair advantage over another timezone's progress. That timezone, if they reach their cap, can still earn AP and help pave the way for future point gain when the next 6 hour cycle starts. My post wasn't clear about this because I didn't think I needed to point that out. Honestly the fact that the score system needs to be changed at all was what I was trying to get across to folks because the way it is right now is completely skewed and making guilds drop Cyrodiil altogether since their effort is being nullified without a chance to defend their lead.
I just looked over the OP again and this comment seems to be intentionally misleading as the OP makes it the cap is daily and makes no mention of it being spread out into 6 time periods.
I have provided a full quote of the OP as it stands at this moment for reference. I might have read it wrong but I do not think I missed this point.Vercingetorix wrote: »Faction Lock was a great first step towards improving the competitive spirit in Cyrodiil, but one more plague exists and it needs to be dealt with if there's to be an actual competition in Cyrodiil. For those who don't know, the act of nightcapping is storming a map during off-hours and gaining many points completely unopposed. For many players, this behavior is met with negativity because it leads to a skewed score increase that is unrepresentative of the contributions and hard work of others in the campaign. The solution to handling this problem is rather simple: place daily faction score caps on each faction's progress for 1st/2nd/3rd place. To be absolutely clear, these would be caps on daily FACTION SCORE gain, NOT player AP.
By implementing a daily cap on the amount of points a faction can earn, factions that perform hard work to overcome resistance during their play hours will not be undermined by players who are online during hours where the enemy is not present. Any player during any time of the day can make progress for their faction, but that progress will be capped each day, regardless of whether they capture 10 or 60 keeps during the night. This means that a faction that earns their 1st place lead and can only be beaten by a faction that rallies together and denies that 1st place faction progress on the battlefield. Yes, this change will lead to a player surge in activity at the start of a campaign, but a 1st place lead is only as good as the effort put forth to maintain it. With both faction lock and daily faction score caps, Cyrodiil's score system will promote healthy competition, regardless of a player's timezone.
EDIT: I'm aware of the fact that players in other timezones are not all maliciously trying to gain an advantage - I know it's just the time you happen to be playing the game. For you, I'm sure NA "primetime" feels like nightcapping, so this change helps everyone out. I think the negative connotation derives from a history of players being shortchanged by a score system that doesn't take into account timezone disparity. If anything, this is the biggest reason why this change needs to happen.
@UrQuan
If you look at the spoiler I clearly included the quote of the OP as it was when that statement was made. I clearly stated that I looked over the OP when I saw the comment in question.
So yes, When it was made it was clearly and intentionally misleading as that information was not included in the OP and the quoted comment made was as though the person has misread the OP, which is not the case
So my comments were very accurate and included proof.
Caius Drusus Imperial DK (DC) Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC) Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP) Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD) J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD) |
Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC) Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP) Manut Redguard Temp (AD) Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP) Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD) |
Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP) Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC) Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP) Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC) Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp |
I'm in North America. I know it's bedtime when I hear Aussie accents taking over group chat
If "so many player apparently enjoy it" then how can this be true "painting an empty map and fighting npcs"?I'd like all of you "I play whenever I want / It's not night in MY time zone" guys to explain to me the enjoyment in painting an empty map and fighting npcs.
I often work night shift myself so I'm actually able to play in the morning. However I rarely do so because taking empty keeps from npcs sounds about as exciting to me as Skyreach grinding.
I won't touch the "moral" aspects of nightcapping here, I'm just curious as to why so many player apparently enjoy it.
Who knows, maybe you'll actually convince me of the beauty of Pvd and make me join your ranks?
Vercingetorix wrote: »That's what happens when someone suggests fixing a design flaw someone else like to exploit for their benefit .. BTW 'exploit' means 'makes use of' for those whose English is challenged, of who there are many on MMO forums, not everything that's exploited is an 'exploit' as called out by the developers.Vercingetorix wrote: »yet you seem to paint this need for changing the score system as an attack.
How is the current scoring system a “design flaw”? It’s a game that runs 24/7, and one that is played by people who have widely varying work schedules. You simply cannot balance score gains around such a varied player base. To have your efforts only count towards the campaign score some of the time is ridiculous. The OP’s amended 6 hour bracket idea is no better than the original idea of a daily score cap. If I’m putting in the effort for my alliance, I darn well want that effort to count towards the outcome of the campaign — no matter what time of the day it is, or how far ahead/behind my alliance is. How the heck is implementing score caps supposed to incentivize faction loyalty and commitment to the campaign?
I’m a 12 hour shift worker. If someone tells me that my efforts are going to count for less, just because I’m playing during “off-peak” hours on my days/nights off, that’s someone who’s going to lose my respect very quickly.
You are missing the point entirely. A faction that can consistently flip a map unopposed makes for a very unfun experience for everyone involved. You sound like another person currently benefiting from the scoring system's flaws. With my proposal, your contributions still matter and you still contribute to your faction's progress - but to a degree within 4 6-hour cycles. If your faction hits the 6-hour cap, then your faction can continue to work towards helping the folks who play after you in the next 6-hour cycle. In all cases, your AP isn't touched but your ability to automatically win a campaign because half the planet is sleeping is no longer valid. You can keep up with "dayshift's" progress at night but you won't gain an unfair advantage over them while they are away. If your faction is behind in score after your shift is done, it will be up to folks in your faction during "dayshift" to slow down the leading faction's progress so that your "nightshift" can gain a lead in scoreboard.
Now, with all that said...
If you are one of the dregs complaining because you can no longer automatically get tier 3 1st place rewards without effort every 30 days on 10+ toons - then yes, my solution gets rid of that tactic entirely because it's toxic, against the spirit of competition, and pushes players away from the game.
I'd like all of you "I play whenever I want / It's not night in MY time zone" guys to explain to me the enjoyment in painting an empty map and fighting npcs.
I often work night shift myself so I'm actually able to play in the morning. However I rarely do so because taking empty keeps from npcs sounds about as exciting to me as Skyreach grinding.
I won't touch the "moral" aspects of nightcapping here, I'm just curious as to why so many player apparently enjoy it.
Who knows, maybe you'll actually convince me of the beauty of Pvd and make me join your ranks?
What I find hugely ironic is that the people who accuse certain alliances of “nightcapping” are at work or asleep when said nightcapping is presumably happening, and don’t see the reality of the map at various points of the day/night.
What I find hugely ironic is that the people who accuse certain alliances of “nightcapping” are at work or asleep when said nightcapping is presumably happening, and don’t see the reality of the map at various points of the day/night.
I think 'nightcapping' is the go-to excuse when NA players log in to the game after breakfast and see their alliance is behind in keep ownership and/or lost their scrolls, and that 'all our hard work' was undone while they were sleeping.
That's what happens when someone suggests fixing a design flaw someone else like to exploit for their benefit .. BTW 'exploit' means 'makes use of' for those whose English is challenged, of who there are many on MMO forums, not everything that's exploited is an 'exploit' as called out by the developers.Vercingetorix wrote: »yet you seem to paint this need for changing the score system as an attack.
It is hardly a design flaw. I think the confusion is based in a false notion that Cyrodiil was designed and intended to be competitive.
First off, you are trying way too hard here OP. It's three way warfare with a global population. There will always be instances that from one perspective seem unfair. Just adapt to the fight and play to the aspects that you deem important. If others want to join you cool.
Adding score caps is bad. Really bad. It can kill the momentum of groups in any place on the scoreboard. It can make it impossible for underdogs to catch up. It will force more stagnation. Just no man. Stop making mountains out of mole hills.
JumpmanLane wrote: »People who play primetime PCNA set their alarms to get up and play is n the middle of the night when the campaign is empty. AD does do this. Period. So forget all that it’s Aussies or Oceanic players.
AD guilds pvdoor trade emp etc.
Vercingetorix wrote: »Faction Lock was a great first step towards improving the competitive spirit in Cyrodiil, but one more plague exists and it needs to be dealt with if there's to be an actual competition in Cyrodiil. For those who don't know, the act of nightcapping is storming a map during off-hours and gaining many points completely unopposed. For many players, this behavior is met with negativity because it leads to a skewed score increase that is unrepresentative of the contributions and hard work of others in the campaign. The solution to handling this problem is rather simple: place daily faction score caps on each faction's progress for 1st/2nd/3rd place. To be absolutely clear, these would be caps on daily FACTION SCORE gain, NOT player AP.
Once again a thread highlighting a real issue that is actually ruining PvP on some servers and once again more idiots trying to explain that time zones are a thing as if no one knows what time zones are. Let me try and make it as clear as possible to you people. Nightcapping exists, it’s a very big problem on EU servers specially where the server peaks at roughly similar times (due to the time zones you people love to bring up). Groups are using the fact that the server peaks at a certain time to jump on one alliance, do their PvDoor and take all the keeps, scrolls and Emp completely unopposed. It is completely disrespectful to everyone who put in work during the day and it ruins the end result of the campaign because the scoring ticks as normal even when the server is almost empty. I’m not sure how many threads like this need to be brought up until people actually start to actually use their brain and see the issue.
It is not ruining PvP. It is Cyrodiil as it was designed. Some people seem to have a view that Cyrodiil is intended to be competitive PvP to begin with which is incorrect.
I don’t think Cyrodiil was designed with PvDoor in mind but sure let’s just pretend it was for argument sake. People are suggesting very good ideas on how to improve the very flawed system we have with the PvP campaigns but their suggestions keep getting shot down by same weak excuse of of an argument about “time zones” when there’s already proof that some servers peak at basically the same time. Pretending that the way Cyrodiil was “designed” is good is terrible for the game specially because of all the issues the campaigns have will never get fixed if people start pretending that everything is so wonderful and nothing is wrong.
JumpmanLane wrote: »People who play primetime PCNA set their alarms to get up and play is n the middle of the night when the campaign is empty. AD does do this. Period. So forget all that it’s Aussies or Oceanic players.
AD guilds pvdoor trade emp etc.
That’s some next-level paranoia on display there. Is it not more likely, perhaps, that you’ve got some North American players on PC NA who are night owls?
WaltherCarraway wrote: »North America server not Oceanic server kthx
First off, you are trying way too hard here OP. It's three way warfare with a global population. There will always be instances that from one perspective seem unfair. Just adapt to the fight and play to the aspects that you deem important. If others want to join you cool.
Adding score caps is bad. Really bad. It can kill the momentum of groups in any place on the scoreboard. It can make it impossible for underdogs to catch up. It will force more stagnation. Just no man. Stop making mountains out of mole hills.
Exactly. Score caps would just result in a stagnant map, and stagnant PVP. Who’s going to want to take or defend keeps/scrolls if they log in and discover that their alliance’s score is “capped” for the next three or four hours? Why waste the time and AP if it’s not even going to matter? May as well just bridge farm at Alessia for two hours and then retake any lost keeps or scrolls just before the score cap lifts. Because we all want more Alessia bridge farms, right?
Vercingetorix wrote: »Once again a thread highlighting a real issue that is actually ruining PvP on some servers and once again more idiots trying to explain that time zones are a thing as if no one knows what time zones are. Let me try and make it as clear as possible to you people. Nightcapping exists, it’s a very big problem on EU servers specially where the server peaks at roughly similar times (due to the time zones you people love to bring up). Groups are using the fact that the server peaks at a certain time to jump on one alliance, do their PvDoor and take all the keeps, scrolls and Emp completely unopposed. It is completely disrespectful to everyone who put in work during the day and it ruins the end result of the campaign because the scoring ticks as normal even when the server is almost empty. I’m not sure how many threads like this need to be brought up until people actually start to actually use their brain and see the issue.
It is not ruining PvP. It is Cyrodiil as it was designed. Some people seem to have a view that Cyrodiil is intended to be competitive PvP to begin with which is incorrect.
I don’t think Cyrodiil was designed with PvDoor in mind but sure let’s just pretend it was for argument sake. People are suggesting very good ideas on how to improve the very flawed system we have with the PvP campaigns but their suggestions keep getting shot down by same weak excuse of of an argument about “time zones” when there’s already proof that some servers peak at basically the same time. Pretending that the way Cyrodiil was “designed” is good is terrible for the game specially because of all the issues the campaigns have will never get fixed if people start pretending that everything is so wonderful and nothing is wrong.
Dude, the people vehemently against my idea (and also providing no counter-solution mind you) are the same folks who are currently exploiting the system. They are the dregs that are making the rest of the overseas players look bad and give them a bad rep as a result. I play with folks overseas all the time because I'm on during the "shift change" and we both agree that the scoreboard system is complete garbage as it is right now. It's not about entitlement, it's not about timezones - it's about keeping the playing field fair for ALL players - those fools are just worried that their crutch 30-day rewards will have to actually be earned when the scoring system gets revamped. (oh, the horror...)