Cyrodiil: An End to Nightcapping

MrGhosty

Across many PvP centric large scale game modes, nightcapping is the go to phrase to use when things don't go your way. Artificial caps don't really help matters, at least based on my experience in a similar game. It just trivializes aspects of the gameplay and led to stagnation, eventually mass exodus between servers. The real fix to this problem I have found is to just not care about a "win" state. The rewards for winning seem pretty paltry, all things considered so if some folks want to no life it, or pvdoor, or whatever then more power to em.

Rather than ask our Dev overlords to step in and bubble wrap the game for us, the OP could organize some of those off hour guilds to step up to resist the off hours capping. The beauty of open world pvp like Cyrodiil is that it puts a lot of power into the hands of players. If you loathe emp trading or any other sort of cheese you can band together with a group of people to put a stop to it. If you want consistent and balanced gameplay, it seems like the battlegrounds might be a better fit. Open world, alliance vs alliance gameplay will never be an esport. It would be unwatchable, no eyeballs means no advertising, no advertising means no sponsorship/partnerships.

The only potential idea I could contribute would be to give under popped factions a buff to battle spirit (not sure if that happens now or not I've been away for awhile) so that a smaller group of dedicated players that play in off hours could fend off larger populations. Even that idea is not without drawbacks and limitations though.

Most of all OP, I think it is a tad disingenuous to assume that everyone who doesn't agree with you is a "dreg" who disagrees simply because they're worried an easy farm for them might go away. I don't doubt such people exist, but it leads me to think you're providing this idea more out of a bias than a desire to have fair balanced gameplay. I don't know that to be true or not, but you can see how me painting you in an unfair light isn't cool yeah?

coletas

Somebody still unaware that most of those night players are people that we want to play the game, but cant with everything full of zergs, only for the lag (for me is somewhat fun kill zergs, but the lag makes the game unplayable). The campaign points, and even the AP's, all for you if you want them

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Obligatory reminder that Earth has 24 time zones, which means Aussies do not 'night cap'.


Not opposed to your idea, though. It has merit.

Aussies need their own server or hell an Asia Oceania server would be a huge help for their lag. As it stand Aussies player are Nightcappers the planet has 24 time zones NA does not.

But NA players are the night cappers when Aussies sleep. lmao
Give it up.

NA time zones are the only ones that matter it’s the NA server not the world server. I’m sure Asia and Oceania would love there own servers. It’s not nightcapping if it’s day time or mid evening in the main time zones which are the NA ones period.

SirAndy

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

NA time zones are the only ones that matter it’s the NA server not the world server. I’m sure Asia and Oceania would love there own servers. It’s not nightcapping if it’s day time or mid evening in the main time zones which are the NA ones period.

idk

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Obligatory reminder that Earth has 24 time zones, which means Aussies do not 'night cap'.


Not opposed to your idea, though. It has merit.

Aussies need their own server or hell an Asia Oceania server would be a huge help for their lag. As it stand Aussies player are Nightcappers the planet has 24 time zones NA does not.

But NA players are the night cappers when Aussies sleep. lmao
Give it up.

NA time zones are the only ones that matter it’s the NA server not the world server. I’m sure Asia and Oceania would love there own servers. It’s not nightcapping if it’s day time or mid evening in the main time zones which are the NA ones period.

Umm. Zos clearly designated the NA server based on it's location. Not on the population it intended to serve as they went with mega servers instead of smaller more local servers.

If you need some proof just read the link below as it is an official Zos statement that the NA server is intended to serve much more than just NA. I prefer to stick to the facts.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

idk wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Obligatory reminder that Earth has 24 time zones, which means Aussies do not 'night cap'.


Not opposed to your idea, though. It has merit.

Aussies need their own server or hell an Asia Oceania server would be a huge help for their lag. As it stand Aussies player are Nightcappers the planet has 24 time zones NA does not.

But NA players are the night cappers when Aussies sleep. lmao
Give it up.

NA time zones are the only ones that matter it’s the NA server not the world server. I’m sure Asia and Oceania would love there own servers. It’s not nightcapping if it’s day time or mid evening in the main time zones which are the NA ones period.

Umm. Zos clearly designated the NA server based on it's location. Not on the population it intended to serve as they went with mega servers instead of smaller more local servers.

If you need some proof just read the link below as it is an official Zos statement that the NA server is intended to serve much more than just NA. I prefer to stick to the facts.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713

What ZoS says means nothing you must look at what they do. Read the description for the classes and races and see if they match the game.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO CAP OR GO CRY !

x48rph

tl;dr a lot of the comments but I will just throw in that during what is I guess considered "prime time" not only is the campaign usually population locked on all three factions and you can be forced to wait a ridiculous amount of time just to get a chance to join, the lag is absolutely horrible. So even if I have 2 hours to play during that magic "prime time" , half of it can be eaten up by waiting to get in and the rest by lag filled fighting and battles where I can repeatedly die because skills don't go off, bar swap doesn't work, ect.. ect.. Or I can log in when there are a lot less people on and not wait or get any lag and have a very enjoyable time win or lose. Guess which I'm going to chose. The fact that occasionally during this time there is a disparity between faction populations is no reason to penalize people. Every one is free to choose which faction they wish to use. If more of one happen to get on then the other two, so be it, that's just part of the game. There is nothing unfair about it. I don't complain whether there are 200 people on in my alliance or 2, I just roll with it.

SupremeRissole

As an Aussie I agree there's an issue. Believe me its not fun for me if my faction has capped the map, there's nobody to fight. I believe we should all have EQUAL opportunity to make an impact on the campaign result. Personally I would rather an incentive for the losing faction to get on to hopefully spark a resistance. The 'nightcapping' on Xbox NA is literally one or two coordinated groups taking the map and all we need is the same number of enemies to make cyro fun in my timezone.

In summary, while I agree there is an issue, implementing points caps will still leave the map being one colour all night and therefore not fun for anyone looking for PvP rather than PvDoor, a way to get more people resisting Is what Id prefer. Aussies deserve to contribute just as much as americans.

idk

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Obligatory reminder that Earth has 24 time zones, which means Aussies do not 'night cap'.


Not opposed to your idea, though. It has merit.

Aussies need their own server or hell an Asia Oceania server would be a huge help for their lag. As it stand Aussies player are Nightcappers the planet has 24 time zones NA does not.

But NA players are the night cappers when Aussies sleep. lmao
Give it up.

NA time zones are the only ones that matter it’s the NA server not the world server. I’m sure Asia and Oceania would love there own servers. It’s not nightcapping if it’s day time or mid evening in the main time zones which are the NA ones period.

Umm. Zos clearly designated the NA server based on it's location. Not on the population it intended to serve as they went with mega servers instead of smaller more local servers.

If you need some proof just read the link below as it is an official Zos statement that the NA server is intended to serve much more than just NA. I prefer to stick to the facts.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713

What ZoS says means nothing you must look at what they do. Read the description for the classes and races and see if they match the game.

Bad spin job. I pointed out the facts and they are clear. Grasping at straws trying to talk about classes in that context.

Mr_Walker

TequilaFire wrote: »

The capping was the same when there were no locks, it was even worse in the morning on PS4 NA.

No it wasn't, at least on XNA, at least the map would move at night as folks swapped to get some AP.

Mr_Walker

AlanTheDragonLord wrote: »

It's not a design flaw that people outside of the US are playing a game that's designed to be available for the entire world, and I'm amazed so many people here think that it is. And accordingly, people outside the US are not 'exploiting' the game simply by playing it in their own part of the world - and I'm amazed so many people here think they are.

It's not amazing at all, people, sadly, are increasingly self-absorbed, and sadly gamers tend to typify the worst of that. Too much time spent alone in front of a screen.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Obligatory reminder that Earth has 24 time zones, which means Aussies do not 'night cap'.


Not opposed to your idea, though. It has merit.

Aussies need their own server or hell an Asia Oceania server would be a huge help for their lag. As it stand Aussies player are Nightcappers the planet has 24 time zones NA does not.

But NA players are the night cappers when Aussies sleep. lmao
Give it up.

NA time zones are the only ones that matter it’s the NA server not the world server. I’m sure Asia and Oceania would love there own servers. It’s not nightcapping if it’s day time or mid evening in the main time zones which are the NA ones period.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the prosecution rests....

Durham

Cyrodiil is trash atm in primtime unplayable cesspool. Only people that seem to think its ok are map players that dont really care about combat as much as score. The lag is to a point you crash, bugs everywhere, and abilites that never work.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Caping rewards could scale with the amonth of players playing the other 2 faction.

So at night when only 5 enemies are there the pts allowed for caping could be extreamly low.

At peak time when their is 100 or more players on the enemy side play it reward more.

It would also discourage players from flipping to the most populous side.

Jabbs_Giggity

Possibly stupid, but why do Aussies play NA server....just saying...

Heelie

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Possibly stupid, but why do Aussies play NA server....just saying...

Where else? Some do play on EU but NA has got better matching time zones and ping.

technohic

Everyone has a right to play but it's a bit ridiculous that you could go from last comfortably to first just as comfortably.

Points should be less the less opposition you face.

idk

technohic wrote: »

Everyone has a right to play but it's a bit ridiculous that you could go from last comfortably to first just as comfortably.

Points should be less the less opposition you face.

They is. There is a low pop bonus. Pretty sure that is still in play. That mechanic was added the first year this game was out because Cyrodiil was never intended to be balanced. It was never intended to have balance between the factions.

NBrookus

While I don't agree with the OP's idea in specifics, Cyrodiil would definitely improve with a more fluid scoring system.

Currently, the most powerful faction gets more buffs, which makes them even more powerful. Incentivizing lower pop/score factions to keep fighting and pushing instead of logging off in the face of overwhelming numbers would be better for every faction looking for actual PvP. We have a mechanic for this already (low pop bonus) it's just not strong enough.

Second, while having a strong 24/7 presence should be rewarded, it shouldn't be rewarded to the extent that it is. A faction is allowed to run the bases to rack up score when the other teams aren't even around. It gives the much smaller number of players in the nightcapping extreme off-peak faction a hugely disproportionate effect on the score. Changes to scoring mechanics would need to be time zone neutral and based on relative populations.

For example, if at 4am EST all factions have 1 bar pop, the map is at least reasonably competitive for that time frame and no adjustments are needed. A 3-1-1 pop imbalance, however, could trigger a slowdown in scoring that doesn't prevent the high pop faction from contributing, but does mitigate the supersized effects a non-competitive map has on the score.

Marcus684

Don’t punish those that play during NA night time and dominate, but instead give incentives for the underdogs to hop into Cyrodiil during those times, whether it’s NA night owls or Oceanic/Asian prime-timers. Carrots attract more players while sticks drive people away.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Mr_Walker wrote: »

AlanTheDragonLord wrote: »

It's not a design flaw that people outside of the US are playing a game that's designed to be available for the entire world, and I'm amazed so many people here think that it is. And accordingly, people outside the US are not 'exploiting' the game simply by playing it in their own part of the world - and I'm amazed so many people here think they are.

It's not amazing at all, people, sadly, are increasingly self-absorbed, and sadly gamers tend to typify the worst of that. Too much time spent alone in front of a screen.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Obligatory reminder that Earth has 24 time zones, which means Aussies do not 'night cap'.


Not opposed to your idea, though. It has merit.

Aussies need their own server or hell an Asia Oceania server would be a huge help for their lag. As it stand Aussies player are Nightcappers the planet has 24 time zones NA does not.

But NA players are the night cappers when Aussies sleep. lmao
Give it up.

NA time zones are the only ones that matter it’s the NA server not the world server. I’m sure Asia and Oceania would love there own servers. It’s not nightcapping if it’s day time or mid evening in the main time zones which are the NA ones period.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the prosecution rests....

Would mean a hell of a lot more if we didn’t have a EU Server... this is poor design the NA server is taken over by players literally on the other side of the planet they hold the WHOLE map for 8-10 hours straight and make a point lend too big to close. I have no hate for non NA players and I’m not self absorbed you put in work knowing that the side with night cappers will always win is bs.

Having them on the other side of the planet cause real problems for them as well bad lag and low number of players on when you’re on. It’s an easy fix. Given them their own server already. This is not enjoyable for anyone.

Luckylancer

What about multiplying points gained with player number on 2 enemy faction population?

Note: not a "direct" multiply, that would be weird. 200players: x4, 100 players: x3, 50: x2, 10: x0. 75.

Heimpai

I’d rather pop imbalances be addressed

Or is being from a different timezone not fair but having 2x the players of the other alliances combined is fair?

Aurielle

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

AlanTheDragonLord wrote: »

It's not a design flaw that people outside of the US are playing a game that's designed to be available for the entire world, and I'm amazed so many people here think that it is. And accordingly, people outside the US are not 'exploiting' the game simply by playing it in their own part of the world - and I'm amazed so many people here think they are.

It's not amazing at all, people, sadly, are increasingly self-absorbed, and sadly gamers tend to typify the worst of that. Too much time spent alone in front of a screen.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Obligatory reminder that Earth has 24 time zones, which means Aussies do not 'night cap'.


Not opposed to your idea, though. It has merit.

Aussies need their own server or hell an Asia Oceania server would be a huge help for their lag. As it stand Aussies player are Nightcappers the planet has 24 time zones NA does not.

But NA players are the night cappers when Aussies sleep. lmao
Give it up.

NA time zones are the only ones that matter it’s the NA server not the world server. I’m sure Asia and Oceania would love there own servers. It’s not nightcapping if it’s day time or mid evening in the main time zones which are the NA ones period.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the prosecution rests....

Would mean a hell of a lot more if we didn’t have a EU Server... this is poor design the NA server is taken over by players literally on the other side of the planet they hold the WHOLE map for 8-10 hours straight and make a point lend too big to close. I have no hate for non NA players and I’m not self absorbed you put in work knowing that the side with night cappers will always win is bs.

Having them on the other side of the planet cause real problems for them as well bad lag and low number of players on when you’re on. It’s an easy fix. Given them their own server already. This is not enjoyable for anyone.

Aussies get better ping on the NA server, and the NA server is actually a better match for their own time zones (i.e. during their various prime times, they get to play with NA folks who are at home during the day). They’re also more likely to find guilds that, you know, speak their own language on the NA server. You ARE being self-absorbed when you say that only North Americans should be able to play on the NA server. While I’m sure the Aussies would love their own server, ZOS would have already implemented an Oceanic server if they felt there was sufficient need/resources/money to earn. We currently have only two servers for a global game, so quit trying to dictate who should play on what server.

Also, did you not read my post about how many official time zones there are in North America? Someone playing at prime time in Alaska/Hawaii/the west coast is playing during the middle of the night from my perspective here in Atlantic Canada. They are “nightcapping” like your dreaded Aussies. When I play at my prime time, I’m “daycapping” from their perspective. And this is WITHIN NORTH AMERICA. Again, don’t be so self absorbed. It’s a big ol’ world we live in, and we all get to play in it.

P.S. I’m posting this at almost 7am on my time. If you’re a west-coaster, I’ll look for your response sometime after lunch. You know, because North Armerica is so large, with so many time zones.

LuckyLuke

LOL you shall not wage war whilst your enemy is snug in their bed sleeping LOL

Heady

guys we night capping right now pls ban us

technohic

idk wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Everyone has a right to play but it's a bit ridiculous that you could go from last comfortably to first just as comfortably.

Points should be less the less opposition you face.

They is. There is a low pop bonus. Pretty sure that is still in play. That mechanic was added the first year this game was out because Cyrodiil was never intended to be balanced. It was never intended to have balance between the factions.

That is for AP, not score.

Jabbs_Giggity

Heelie wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Possibly stupid, but why do Aussies play NA server....just saying...

Where else? Some do play on EU but NA has got better matching time zones and ping.

I get that though. My point is other MMOs I've played in the past you were always locked to the server region that your IP registers to. While ZOS seriously needs to fix the EU server, arguments of "what about aussies" playing in NA server is invalid. You're playing in a server that is designed to a specific region and time zones for prime time. Get over it.

xylena_lazarow

Kaal map on PC/NA, screenshotted shortly before this post, 6:45am CST for me (note the hammer).

Aurielle

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Possibly stupid, but why do Aussies play NA server....just saying...

Where else? Some do play on EU but NA has got better matching time zones and ping.

I get that though. My point is other MMOs I've played in the past you were always locked to the server region that your IP registers to. While ZOS seriously needs to fix the EU server, arguments of "what about aussies" playing in NA server is invalid. You're playing in a server that is designed to a specific region and time zones for prime time. Get over it.

Which other MMOs would these be? LOTRO does not have an Oceanic server. GW2 does not have an Oceanic server. Black Desert Online does not have an oceanic server. In fact, after a quick Google search, the only big name MMO I can find that has Oceanic servers is WoW.

The only people who need to “get over” anything is ethnocentric North Americans who think the entire world revolves around and caters to them.