ZOS, do you actually care anymore?

Tigerseye

Bouldercleave wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

oh so we just shut up?

Not at all. Ever. You are paying for a service and have every right to voice disagreement with it when it has failed to meet your standards and expectations. Just know who to be pissed at.

This - NEVER shut up.

The key is to know WHO to be pissed at.

The other ting is that many of the people here really need to work on their presentation. You can be pissed and voice disagreements, but when you come across as an entitled child you will never get the response or resolution that you are looking for.

I have run car dealerships for a LONG time now, so customer service is VERY important. I can assure you that as a customer, HOW you come at someone with a complaint will dictate the level of response and resolution that you get.

Calling people lazy, greedy, incompetent, stupid ( which happens here l TON ) will get you ignored even if they are actually working on your problem. As customer service goes it's just not worth responding to that kind of garbage.

My advice would be 100% to voice your complaints / concerns, but do it in a way that isn't sarcastic, passive aggressive, or down right abusive. You may just get a better response.

I run my own (tiny) business and sometimes people are rude, but I still deal with them and do my best, as long as their complaint is legitimate.

If it's not I, obviously, have to (politely) stand my ground, but I don't reject people's complaints on the basis of rudeness.

Not least, because you have a legal duty not to do that.

People are human - they get angry and upset when they are stressed.

I know they do, because I do too...

You can't decide to just ignore complaints because you don't think your customers are polite enough when voicing them.

That would be unprofessional.

oxygen_thief

solasub wrote: »

And all those people off course spent a lot of money for Iron dummy, race token, buying Elsweyr etc etc.
Even solo content is affected
This game is just unplayable ;PvP is broken, PvE group is broken, PvE solo is broken. yes, still ZERO reaction or excuses

Iam going to ask you my favourite question. Why do you keep paying? You do know the game is trash but you pay.

Ixilith

Tbh I’m on EU PC, and apart from 3 occasions I’ve not had any problems so far granted I don’t do a lot of cryodill but I’m online a lot.

The problem isn’t they don’t care, the problem is server stability isn’t something you can be open with, but giving the playerbase sever information they are handing a invitation to hack them. They can’t just post that onto the forums for us all the read.

ESO is suffering the same problem every game before it had when trying to create open world pvp.

WoW had major stability problems while world pvp was a thing. And was down for many many more hours then ESO. And while you can say “WoW was years ago tech got better” it did, but now tech is demanded more of, if u compare the graphics and increased quantity of systems. The capability of servers has remained identical.

Tech only gets better for running things beneath it, but today’s games are run to such a high level the strain hasn’t changed.

Mega servers don’t work in a mmorpg, they need to split the servers.

Open world pvp is incredibly hard to manage. I’m not sure what they can really do about it. But I suspose giving CP BGs developing a competitive small scale arena pvp and broadening the pvp maps out to give more variation maybe the stronger way then cryodill. Then just allow pvp servers in all the open world so we won’t see zerging etc etc

There’s a reason the improvements to other games has been phasing the game down to not seeing many players around you. Having instance lines throughout maps which cause things to fade as u move through the world.. cutting up servers into smaller populations and more. It’s because of this. But the problem is players don’t want this alternative either.

Palidon

The answer to this threads question should be obvious. First look at the volume of complaints and bug reports that have been reported. Many of which have been reported time and time again. Then look at what ZOS' has done to address those issues. Need I say more?

geonsocal

Tigerseye wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

oh so we just shut up?

Not at all. Ever. You are paying for a service and have every right to voice disagreement with it when it has failed to meet your standards and expectations. Just know who to be pissed at.

This - NEVER shut up.

The key is to know WHO to be pissed at.

The other ting is that many of the people here really need to work on their presentation. You can be pissed and voice disagreements, but when you come across as an entitled child you will never get the response or resolution that you are looking for.

I have run car dealerships for a LONG time now, so customer service is VERY important. I can assure you that as a customer, HOW you come at someone with a complaint will dictate the level of response and resolution that you get.

Calling people lazy, greedy, incompetent, stupid ( which happens here l TON ) will get you ignored even if they are actually working on your problem. As customer service goes it's just not worth responding to that kind of garbage.

My advice would be 100% to voice your complaints / concerns, but do it in a way that isn't sarcastic, passive aggressive, or down right abusive. You may just get a better response.

I run my own (tiny) business and sometimes people are rude, but I still deal with them

Jaimeh

code65536 wrote: »

? Surely this means we'll get dragon combat that's more interesting than hitting*** a barely-moving lump sitting in front of us on the ground. Right?... RIght?????

***Terms and conditions apply: Unless you're using Blastbones on a necromancer

Seriously though, the chapter's selling point, the much awaited necromancer class, that they've been advertising and talking about everywhere is rife with bugs (not to mention it has gameplay-breaking issues in the new trial) that were mentioned from the PTS, but it still got released in that state... that it's becoming like most things in this game: great only IF we could actually play it.

Jeremy

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

You sell things in the crownstore for ridiculous prices, which alot of people pay. Where is that money?

Board members, shareholders, investors.

If those are more important than your customers that actually keep the lights on, I dont know what to say. The world has became a sad place.
Remember when the games were made for gamers?

Welcome to Corporate America (and other participating countries).

Remember as well that it's only the corporate/publisher side which doesn't care about you. Generally most of the developer staff actually love the game and their community.

This is very correct. Matt Firor on up are the business side. So those under Matt do care about the game but they hands are tied to what Matt and his bosses say needs to be done. Yes, Matt is the business side these days.

Yup, because at the end of the day, you either run a business to make money, or you run a hobby. It can't be both.

Sometimes you can have real artists in charge of the decisions who are more interested in maintaining their vision than making more money. Unfortunately that's very rare these days - especially since everything is being gobbled up by giant corporations whose only real interests is making more money.

TelvanniWizard

Anymore? ZO$ never cared in the first place.

Uryel

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Well said, any of us that work in the commercial industry and have IT departments understand this. I've had open bugs that aren't fixed but have been on the radar for 5 years I work at a very very large company. That being said without new expansions people quit the game so ZOS also has to invest in those resources to build those expansions which require a LOT of money and time. You think the recent merchant search changes were easily done? Having to work with PS4, XBox and PC systems? This isn't one game it's THREE as far as portions of the coding goes.

This is why people who work in commercial "with an IT department" shouldn't talk about tech stuff they don't understand. Let people who work(ed) in IT talk about IT, pretty please.

Does it cost money to run a MMO ? Yep. Is ZOS making money ? Yes, we're talking about over 50 million dollars a year, here. Where does the money go ? Obviously, in the investor's pockets, else those bugs would be fixed.

Generally speaking, in IT long term lingering bugs are caused by lack of manpower, lack of proper means to fix them, or excess work that prevents time for bug correction. Or any combination of the above. In some companies, it's also a "business decision", a "smart" idea the commercial people have had : let's leave the bugs in the product, so we can sell a patch / new version that corrects them, later on.

When you work, or in my case have worked, in IT for commercial companies, even more so when the IT systems are vital to the companies' operations, you know this basic rule : if it works, the boss will congratulate the commercial team for selling stuff. If it doesn't work, they will blame IT for doing a *** job. All the while, EVERY request for any kind of technical improvement whatsoever will be met by "it's too expensive". We need a 5 000 bucks server to replace the one that just died, else we risk losing all financial data over the past 3 months, stuff is now running on the backup only, and that backup isn't good enough because getting a better one was "too expensive" ? Yeah, that's too expensive. Gotta fight with your boss for a whole afternoon for 5 000 bucks. Why ? Because as long as it works, they can show how inexpensive they make it to run the systems. If it fails, they can blame the lowly techs for messing up. Simple as that.

Every commercial company sees IT as an expense, not as a mean of income. Never expect a thank you.

So, do I think the recent merchant changes were easily done ? Yes I do. There were already addons for that, and mind you, they were alot better than what ZOS did. Their solution is, at best, half baked. And addon developpers do it without access to the base code or anything, just the API that allows interfacing their code with the game base code. Also, the number of platforms is irrelevant. When you code something, you don't write different codes for different systems, you just compile them for different systems. Not sure "compile" is the proper word in english, though. Basically, you magically transform your code is something that can execute itself on a specified architecture. This doesn't call for different codes on each machine. The program used to compile the code is either different, or ou change parameters, but the code itself remains the same. If that's not how they do it, then THEY are doing it wrong and I can't excuse how amateurish that would be.

D0PAMINE

It has been obvious for a while now that ZoS has been deliberately ignoring players and their feedback. It's a massive waste of our time. We wanted this game to shine. We have put a lot of effort into improving ESO over the last 5 YEARS, and what do we get in return? We get little acknowledgement, zero appreciation, and silence in the form of a locked door with a big sign on it saying "Go Away".

Jaraal

ParaNostram wrote: »

The devs care very much, the executives however...

This is what profit motive does to gaming, folks. It's more profitable to shovel incomplete crap so the people with the money force devs to keep shoveling it out.

I highly doubt executives told the devs to alienate a large percentage of the player base by retconning decades of established Bosmer lore for a minor PvP only buff.

Inaya

Much like any other large company I think some employees care very much and take great pride in their jobs. These are the people who are usually the most frustrated as management and bean counters tie their hands with unrealistic budgets and a bevy of hoops to jump through.

Upper management and bean counters are what I call the "sales prevention department" because they are so focused on the bottom line that they their tunnel vision in some cases actually prevents them from seeing that they could have happy customers, happy employees AND a great bottom line.

Pops_ND_Irish

Seems just fine to me

Rain_Greyraven

Questions like this always sound like they are coming from a bi-polar grandma that's desperately seeking attention.

Libonotus

Svenja wrote: »

What I find most interesting is the fact that ZOS states that they fixed bug X in the patchnotes, but when you log into the game, said bug is in fact NOT fixed, but still there.

Best example for that are the broken conal AoEs. This was "fixed" last week if you actually believe the patch notes. Mobs in game haven't heard about that fix, Archers in Blackrose Prison still do beautiful 300° arrow sprays, ice atronachs in the Lokkestiiz-Fight in sunspire still oneshot players who are way out of the telegraphed cone.
Nothing has changed.

Fixed an issue where some monsters that were supposed to be locked in place would instead turn to face your character. This fixes many gameplay issues, particularly with cone and Area of Effect based attacks, most evident in Trials but found throughout the world.

This, combined with the very, VERY poor server performance on PC EU, annoys me so much, I can't even find words for it anymore.

Have you not learned? ZoS only cares about fixing A E S T H E T I C bugs like a rock not showing up properly

Pops_ND_Irish

Libonotus wrote: »

Svenja wrote: »

What I find most interesting is the fact that ZOS states that they fixed bug X in the patchnotes, but when you log into the game, said bug is in fact NOT fixed, but still there.

Best example for that are the broken conal AoEs. This was "fixed" last week if you actually believe the patch notes. Mobs in game haven't heard about that fix, Archers in Blackrose Prison still do beautiful 300° arrow sprays, ice atronachs in the Lokkestiiz-Fight in sunspire still oneshot players who are way out of the telegraphed cone.
Nothing has changed.

Fixed an issue where some monsters that were supposed to be locked in place would instead turn to face your character. This fixes many gameplay issues, particularly with cone and Area of Effect based attacks, most evident in Trials but found throughout the world.

This, combined with the very, VERY poor server performance on PC EU, annoys me so much, I can't even find words for it anymore.

Have you not learned? ZoS only cares about fixing A E S T H E T I C bugs like a rock not showing up properly

Why still play ? such a terrible game ! hehehehehe

Turelus

idk wrote: »

This is very correct. Matt Firor on up are the business side. So those under Matt do care about the game but they hands are tied to what Matt and his bosses say needs to be done. Yes, Matt is the business side these days.

I was actually discussing this with my girlfriend last night over dinner (nerd couples, heh).

We were both saying we can't really figure out where to place Matt because whilst he's very much on the business side, every time we've spoken with him at events he's always been very passionate about the games community as well as being very in touch with what's happening with the game (including issues). He's even spoken about his own experiences whilst playing the game.

Whilst I am sure he has signed off one some of the aspects we despise within ESO, I can't say I picture him in the "evil corporate man" place.

ArenGesus

Turelus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is very correct. Matt Firor on up are the business side. So those under Matt do care about the game but they hands are tied to what Matt and his bosses say needs to be done. Yes, Matt is the business side these days.

I was actually discussing this with my girlfriend last night over dinner (nerd couples, heh).

We were both saying we can't really figure out where to place Matt because whilst he's very much on the business side, every time we've spoken with him at events he's always been very passionate about the games community as well as being very in touch with what's happening with the game (including issues). He's even spoken about his own experiences whilst playing the game.

Whilst I am sure he has signed off one some of the aspects we despise within ESO, I can't say I picture him in the "evil corporate man" place.

Of course he's passionate about the community when you talk to him. As a member of the business, you have to be marketing-aware. Nobody in any company is allowed to talk with that company's consumers if they don't understand how to interact with them in a favorable way. It means absolutely nothing. I do the same thing for my organization every day of the week. Doesn't mean I believe any of it. I get paid to do it. So does he.

Turelus

ArenGesus wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is very correct. Matt Firor on up are the business side. So those under Matt do care about the game but they hands are tied to what Matt and his bosses say needs to be done. Yes, Matt is the business side these days.

I was actually discussing this with my girlfriend last night over dinner (nerd couples, heh).

We were both saying we can't really figure out where to place Matt because whilst he's very much on the business side, every time we've spoken with him at events he's always been very passionate about the games community as well as being very in touch with what's happening with the game (including issues). He's even spoken about his own experiences whilst playing the game.

Whilst I am sure he has signed off one some of the aspects we despise within ESO, I can't say I picture him in the "evil corporate man" place.

Of course he's passionate about the community when you talk to him. As a member of the business, you have to be marketing-aware. Nobody in any company is allowed to talk with that company's consumers if they don't understand how to interact with them in a favorable way. It means absolutely nothing. I do the same thing for my organization every day of the week. Doesn't mean I believe any of it. I get paid to do it. So does he.

Sure, but that's what we were discussing is he doesn't come off that way at all.
He's either a world class actor or it's truly genuine, sure I don't doubt he signs off on some things in the Crown Store we grit our teeth at knowing full well that it's going to irk players, but he has very clear (and to me) honest love for ESO and wanting to make it a great game.

I mean I am sure he's signed off on things which he knows full well will anger players, but I don't get the sense he's the kind of person twisting his moustache and cackling manically whilst doing it.

ArenGesus

Turelus wrote: »

ArenGesus wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This is very correct. Matt Firor on up are the business side. So those under Matt do care about the game but they hands are tied to what Matt and his bosses say needs to be done. Yes, Matt is the business side these days.

I was actually discussing this with my girlfriend last night over dinner (nerd couples, heh).

We were both saying we can't really figure out where to place Matt because whilst he's very much on the business side, every time we've spoken with him at events he's always been very passionate about the games community as well as being very in touch with what's happening with the game (including issues). He's even spoken about his own experiences whilst playing the game.

Whilst I am sure he has signed off one some of the aspects we despise within ESO, I can't say I picture him in the "evil corporate man" place.

Of course he's passionate about the community when you talk to him. As a member of the business, you have to be marketing-aware. Nobody in any company is allowed to talk with that company's consumers if they don't understand how to interact with them in a favorable way. It means absolutely nothing. I do the same thing for my organization every day of the week. Doesn't mean I believe any of it. I get paid to do it. So does he.

Sure, but that's what we were discussing is he doesn't come off that way at all.
He's either a world class actor or it's truly genuine, sure I don't doubt he signs off on some things in the Crown Store we grit our teeth at knowing full well that it's going to irk players, but he has very clear (and to me) honest love for ESO and wanting to make it a great game.

I mean I am sure he's signed off on things which he knows full well will anger players, but I don't get the sense he's the kind of person twisting his moustache and cackling manically whilst doing it.

Well, if you can't be believable, then you can't be paid to do the job. I'm just saying that it's part of his role to appear at events and talk to the community and have them walk away from the interaction favorably. It in no way makes it sincere. That doesn't mean he isn't sincere - he may really want to make a bunch of improvements the community is asking for, but know for 100% certainty that it's never going to happen. He is going to put on his I want to make things better face when talking with you. He isn't going to say no, none of that is ever going to happen - he's going to say there is no ETA as of yet.

solasub

I have a question : if you buy, let's say a car, and the car is not working, do you care about whose FAULT it is or you just want the car you paid to work? Would you accept some answers as "oh but you know our employee really care about cars, they love cars ; we cannot repair yours, but, believe us, we LOVE cars!! And you know, the car designer has done such a beautiful job on it! This car is not working, but it is so beautiful, and we so much love cars!! " ???

I don't understand half of the posts here ; what is the point to tell Mr X or Mr Y love this game, it's X or Y fault? I am not ZOS employees manager, I just don't care, it is not my business ; I am a customer and I JUST WANT THE GAME I PAID FOR TO WORK ; and it's not ; it's broken ; whose responsibilities it is, it's ZOS charge and business, not mine ; mine is just to have the content I buy to can be used and not be broken ; that's all.

ArenGesus

solasub wrote: »

I have a question : if you buy, let's say a car, and the car is not working, do you care about whose FAULT it is or you just want the car you paid to work? Would you accept some answers as "oh but you know our employee really care about cars, they love cars ; we cannot repair yours, but, believe us, we LOVE cars!! And you know, the car designer has done such a beautiful job on it! This car is not working, but it is so beautiful, and we so much love cars!! " ???

I don't understand half of the posts here ; what is the point to tell Mr X or Mr Y love this game, it's X or Y fault? I am not ZOS employees manager, I just don't care, it is not my business ; I am a customer and I JUST WANT THE GAME I PAID FOR TO WORK ; and it's not ; it's broken ; whose responsibilities it is, it's ZOS charge and business, not mine ; mine is just to have the content I buy to can be used and not be broken ; that's all.

Amen.

xMovingTarget

Issues are just piling up, and no official words about any of it..

Rohamad_Ali

This one only has his observations and one such observation is so . While the heads at ZoS are very cool and passionate players as well as in charge of the game , their opinions in game direction are developed in a vacuum and that is bad . There is a echo chamber for those that enjoy pats on the back and rubs on the chin . (This one loves chin scratches too ) However , this leads to them choosing who out in the community they should listen to when searching for the community pulse . Choosing those who polish brass on the Titanic whilest their friends and fans in stream chat are giving the real community buzz . This has always been ZoS's biggest issue . Communication . To this day they are bad at it . An no matter how generous or how " proper" everyone is acting , the solution remains a mystery to them .

JamilaRaj

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

This one only has his observations and one such observation is so . While the heads at ZoS are very cool and passionate players as well as in charge of the game , their opinions in game direction are developed in a vacuum and that is bad . There is a echo chamber for those that enjoy pats on the back and rubs on the chin . (This one loves chin scratches too ) However , this leads to them choosing who out in the community they should listen to when searching for the community pulse . Choosing those who polish brass on the Titanic whilest their friends and fans in stream chat are giving the real community buzz . This has always been ZoS's biggest issue . Communication . To this day they are bad at it . An no matter how generous or how " proper" everyone is acting , the solution remains a mystery to them .

Indeed. They should communicate The Lag better, give it a more positive spin, because some players have very strong negative feelings about it.

Facefister

"The best MMO on the market"

Tigerseye

geonsocal wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

solasub wrote: »

oh so we just shut up?

Not at all. Ever. You are paying for a service and have every right to voice disagreement with it when it has failed to meet your standards and expectations. Just know who to be pissed at.

This - NEVER shut up.

The key is to know WHO to be pissed at.

The other ting is that many of the people here really need to work on their presentation. You can be pissed and voice disagreements, but when you come across as an entitled child you will never get the response or resolution that you are looking for.

I have run car dealerships for a LONG time now, so customer service is VERY important. I can assure you that as a customer, HOW you come at someone with a complaint will dictate the level of response and resolution that you get.

Calling people lazy, greedy, incompetent, stupid ( which happens here l TON ) will get you ignored even if they are actually working on your problem. As customer service goes it's just not worth responding to that kind of garbage.

My advice would be 100% to voice your complaints / concerns, but do it in a way that isn't sarcastic, passive aggressive, or down right abusive. You may just get a better response.

I run my own (tiny) business and sometimes people are rude, but I still deal with them

Yeah, I obviously didn't mean it like that...

Tigerseye

solasub wrote: »

I have a question : if you buy, let's say a car, and the car is not working, do you care about whose FAULT it is or you just want the car you paid to work? Would you accept some answers as "oh but you know our employee really care about cars, they love cars ; we cannot repair yours, but, believe us, we LOVE cars!! And you know, the car designer has done such a beautiful job on it! This car is not working, but it is so beautiful, and we so much love cars!! " ???

I don't understand half of the posts here ; what is the point to tell Mr X or Mr Y love this game, it's X or Y fault? I am not ZOS employees manager, I just don't care, it is not my business ; I am a customer and I JUST WANT THE GAME I PAID FOR TO WORK ; and it's not ; it's broken ; whose responsibilities it is, it's ZOS charge and business, not mine ; mine is just to have the content I buy to can be used and not be broken ; that's all.

Well done for getting to the heart of the matter.

This whole "We're your friends and we're doing our best, so you have to tolerate everything and anything we do (or don't do) and never be rude." ploy is tiresome and highly unprofessional.

Maybe it works on teen boys, but it does not (or should not) work on grown adults.

They're not our friends - they're people offering us a service for money.

They're a business and we're their customers.

End of story.

Tigerseye

...or, not really end of story, actually, as they can try to wriggle out of it by saying you only bought a craft bag upgrade, or a mount, or whatever.

That is the problem, here: non-sub games.

Even if you end up paying far more than you would have done if you had paid a (conventional) sub, technically, they can say you only paid for those very specific things you purchased.

JackDaniell

Hmm, I had this feeling when playing necro on the PTS that "necro will go to live bugged like this and the servers will not improve"

ZoS keeping it status quo!

In all seriousness if they fail to adress game performance much longer they will start to cut into all that growth they got from the elsweyr hype. Zenimax's current buisness model/product isnt desinged to retain longterm players.