Update 24 and the Dragonhold DLC Game Pack are both now available for testing on the PTS! Experience the amazing conclusion to the Season of the Dragon saga. You can read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493609/ 

EU Server Performance - Update from Matt Firor

  • vlakipn
    vlakipn
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    Sunderhall wrote: »
    EU players = 2nd class customers = no reason to pay for your crap

    Looks more like 3rd...
  • DJfriede
    DJfriede
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    State of Cyro is laughable. Worse than ever before regarding lag. And now we even got crashes. Yay!
  • GarnetFire17
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    "[take their time to not introduce new issues]" translates to "We are taking our time as to not introduce EVEN MORE ISSUES than are almost certainly going to happen eventhough we are taking our time. Because we are changing things and when we do, something always breaks and their is no avoiding it."
    Edited by GarnetFire17 on August 20, 2019 7:11PM
  • pod88kk
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    Wonder why they unstuck this thread? Hoping it'll cascade down the pages & get lost in Oblivion?
  • Miswar
    Miswar
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    So what has your "monitoring" revelealed about console server performance?

    What it should reveal that PS4 EU server functions like rotten tomato and it has gotten worse and worse. Yes, both Pve and PvP related and people quitting the game daily due to this.

    Maybe also fix the title of this thread to cover all of the servers since have 0 doubt that they run like crap.

    Also why would any self respecting customer sub the game since all of your so called "improvements" have been heard all before and nothing has actually happened.

    Getting annoyed by our lack of commitment regarding this issue to say at least.
  • rumple9
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    Wow has crap gfx less data to transmit
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    rumple9 wrote: »
    Wow has crap gfx less data to transmit

    I guess Overwatch has "crap gfx" too, cause it works flawlessly. And despite fact that ESO has "old" engine, in low traffic hours ESO works great. It's all about load and insufficient server capacity. ZOS chiefs simply don't think that big investment in servers will ever pay off, so they do only minor HW upgrades and try to fix performance by tweaking game code....
    Restart your router
  • JamilaRaj
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    rumple9 wrote: »
    Wow has crap gfx less data to transmit

    I guess Overwatch has "crap gfx" too, cause it works flawlessly. And despite fact that ESO has "old" engine, in low traffic hours ESO works great. It's all about load and insufficient server capacity. ZOS chiefs simply don't think that big investment in servers will ever pay off, so they do only minor HW upgrades and try to fix performance by tweaking game code....

    Programmers are more expensive than hardware. The only reason not to buy hardware I can imagine is that load is nonlinear (read "ESO is buggy mess"), which would make attempts at hardware solution very costly.
    In other words, facing choice between expensive programmers and costly hardware, ZOS's corporate overlords probably chose to hire another addictologist, ha ha ha. Hm.
    Edited by JamilaRaj on August 22, 2019 9:30PM
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
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    JamilaRaj wrote: »
    rumple9 wrote: »
    Wow has crap gfx less data to transmit

    I guess Overwatch has "crap gfx" too, cause it works flawlessly. And despite fact that ESO has "old" engine, in low traffic hours ESO works great. It's all about load and insufficient server capacity. ZOS chiefs simply don't think that big investment in servers will ever pay off, so they do only minor HW upgrades and try to fix performance by tweaking game code....

    Programmers are more expensive than hardware. The only reason not to buy hardware I can imagine is that load is nonlinear (read "ESO is buggy mess"), which would make attempts at hardware solution very costly.
    In other words, facing choice between expensive programmers and costly hardware, ZOS's corporate overlords probably chose to hire another addictologist, ha ha ha. Hm.

    I am pretty sure that they are at the bounds of what the hardware can do. Short of splitting the megaservers, which I don't want them to do, the solution lies in optimizing the software. That means programmers. Alternately, time.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • wrath_of_erana
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    can we get a performance token in the crown store?
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    JamilaRaj wrote: »
    rumple9 wrote: »
    Wow has crap gfx less data to transmit

    I guess Overwatch has "crap gfx" too, cause it works flawlessly. And despite fact that ESO has "old" engine, in low traffic hours ESO works great. It's all about load and insufficient server capacity. ZOS chiefs simply don't think that big investment in servers will ever pay off, so they do only minor HW upgrades and try to fix performance by tweaking game code....

    Programmers are more expensive than hardware. The only reason not to buy hardware I can imagine is that load is nonlinear (read "ESO is buggy mess"), which would make attempts at hardware solution very costly.
    In other words, facing choice between expensive programmers and costly hardware, ZOS's corporate overlords probably chose to hire another addictologist, ha ha ha. Hm.

    I am pretty sure that they are at the bounds of what the hardware can do. Short of splitting the megaservers, which I don't want them to do, the solution lies in optimizing the software. That means programmers. Alternately, time.

    Why not? They can split them and allow one-time account transfer. People who are satisfied with current performance or can't transfer as entire guild can remain on current server. People and guilds for whom "game is unplayable" move to new server. Everyone is happy, problem solved. There will be some mess and drama with separation of guilds, but better start a new with good performance then struggle with lag and crashes.
    Restart your router
  • Morgul667
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    I would feel ashame if that would happen in my work :/ can you do something professional ZOS ? Pretty please

  • lordrichter
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    Why not? They can split them and allow one-time account transfer. People who are satisfied with current performance or can't transfer as entire guild can remain on current server. People and guilds for whom "game is unplayable" move to new server. Everyone is happy, problem solved. There will be some mess and drama with separation of guilds, but better start a new with good performance then struggle with lag and crashes.

    There are a myriad of different ways to do MMO servers, and honestly, which one is used is more personal preference regarding features. A major advantage of a megaserver over multiple discrete servers in a geography is that I don't have to care what server I am on. I find that annoying in other MMO games. I should not have to care what server I am on relative to my friends, and I should never have to realize I picked wrong. ESO would be better if they had one megaserver for both EU and NA, but that is a technology challenge well above what we have today.

    The problem we have is not the megaserver idea, or the fact that there are only two per platform. (Unless you in Asia or down under... but that is a different story) The problem is that they really only made their server capable of handling a certain number of players before it could no longer scale, and we are above that number of players. Short sighted? Too focused on what is currently needed vs what will be needed? Dunno. Anyway, this is a combination of the success of the game, and probably also due to gradual decline in the number of players that the game can actually support.

    When software performance is the limitation, throwing hardware at the problem only makes for a lot of hardware sitting around. If the software can only handle X player transactions per second, it does not matter that they are running on hardware that can handle twice that much. In this case, doubling the hardware performance does not double software performance. The diminishing returns means that, eventually, a hardware performance cap is hit It is no longer feasible to double the hardware performance in order to squeeze out a fractional improvement in the software performance.

    Properly implemented, the megaserver should perform very well for the type of game that ZOS is running.

    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • DonRavello
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    There are almost no boundaries regarding hardware. There are scale-out models, which allow for "mega servers" with in-memory-computing of terabytes, even petabytes of RAM and thousands of vCPUs. The problem is: The server software must be able to utilize such resources in an intelligent way.

    As we are talking about a software developed starting 2012, which was patched and patched and "enhanced" with more and more content, I seriously doubt that this software is ready for such resource utilization. They have to fix their engine - and "fixing" in this dimension means "redo the engine" more or less.

    But the communication on this topic is so weak, we can only assume that they simply don't want to take that investment and rather trust in people leaving that game during the next 12 months, so performance will "increase" automatically.

  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
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    DonRavello wrote: »
    There are almost no boundaries regarding hardware. There are scale-out models, which allow for "mega servers" with in-memory-computing of terabytes, even petabytes of RAM and thousands of vCPUs. The problem is: The server software must be able to utilize such resources in an intelligent way.

    There are bounds to the hardware. What you describe uses software to overcome that limitation. :smile: The whole idea is based upon the simple premise that we can no longer build better hardware fast enough to keep up with the computing demands that we have, and do it at a cost that is reasonable for general use.

    Anyway... I am pretty sure that they are "stuck" with their hardware platform.



    Edited by lordrichter on August 23, 2019 10:01AM
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates!
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 331, so far!

  • Darkstorne
    Darkstorne
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    rumple9 wrote: »
    Wow has crap gfx less data to transmit

    bec8cf0ab6dac8a6e9e6.gif
  • darklordjames3b14_ESO
    Thanks!
  • Sarannah
    Sarannah
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    Since the server issues are now even causing patches to work incorrectly(like trader-swap), will the timetable for the EU server upgrades be moved up to prevent future patch-lag issues?

    Since ZOS has mentioned add-ons as one of the causes of the server issues, is ZOS considering making their own lightweight add-ons like for DPS meter, trader-history and maybe some other highly used add-ons? ... or have plans to incorporate some of these things in to the basic game? ... to reduce server load.
  • Tulare_Verlaris
    Tulare_Verlaris
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    Sarannah wrote: »
    Since the server issues are now even causing patches to work incorrectly(like trader-swap), will the timetable for the EU server upgrades be moved up to prevent future patch-lag issues?

    Since ZOS has mentioned add-ons as one of the causes of the server issues, is ZOS considering making their own lightweight add-ons like for DPS meter, trader-history and maybe some other highly used add-ons? ... or have plans to incorporate some of these things in to the basic game? ... to reduce server load.

    Zo$ make add-ons? Are you crazy? :D

    Look what they did with the guild trader "improvements"! Massive input lag and way worse functionality than several other addons already available for years. Sorry, but I wouldn't trust this team to make a cup of tea at this point.

    Also this thread being unstickied again is another sign of the slimy practices of this company... no words.

    Edit: It is now suddenly stickied again? Wtf is going on with this thread? :D
    Edited by Tulare_Verlaris on August 25, 2019 1:13PM
    Still in the queue, spamming "F"...
  • Sarannah
    Sarannah
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    Sarannah wrote: »
    Since the server issues are now even causing patches to work incorrectly(like trader-swap), will the timetable for the EU server upgrades be moved up to prevent future patch-lag issues?

    Since ZOS has mentioned add-ons as one of the causes of the server issues, is ZOS considering making their own lightweight add-ons like for DPS meter, trader-history and maybe some other highly used add-ons? ... or have plans to incorporate some of these things in to the basic game? ... to reduce server load.

    Zo$ make add-ons? Are you crazy? :D

    Look what they did with the guild trader "improvements"! Massive input lag and way worse functionality than several other addons already available for years. Sorry, but I wouldn't trust this team to make a cup of tea at this point.

    Also this thread being unstickied again is another sign of the slimy practices of this company... no words.

    Edit: It is now suddenly stickied again? Wtf is going on with this thread? :D

    ZOS making add-ons might seem crazy, but if it reduces serverload it might be a good idea. Also add-ons from the mmo-runner itself is also more trustworthy than third-party websites and their add-ons. Especially in relation to hacking.

    PS: This thread has never been unstickied for me, even when others posted it seemed so.
  • Delparis
    Delparis
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    stop wasting your time and understand that performance will never be fixed sooner or later unless ZoS do what SE did with FF14 and rebuild the whole game.
    Since ZoS won't spend more money on this game, it will stay the way it is till servers are shut down.
    Edited by Delparis on August 26, 2019 2:43PM
    ZOS don't fix old bugs, they harbor them
  • MornaBaine
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    Welp... looks like any hoped for improvements for player housing are pretty much doomed if THIS is really where they are after all this time.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • hhk
    hhk
    Soul Shriven
    Cyrodiil lag on EU server... Its unplayable.
    Please ZOS. Skip the content for once and start to fix the game. Optimize it first and then expand. You should have enough money to hire experts.

    1. Prioritise the quality of your game.
    2. Plan and implement working processes
    3. Think!
    4. Future scenario planning. (how to counter massively Inc new players on servers.)
    5. Say thank you to all the lojal players that do everything to stop other lojal players dropping from the game.

    ...

    And stop nerf stuff. Stop it. Balance to the other direction please.

    Edited by hhk on August 26, 2019 6:50PM
  • StalwartToaster
    StalwartToaster
    Soul Shriven
    .
  • DJfriede
    DJfriede
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    100% unplayable at the moment. Breaking free takes 5 tries, health desyncs (dead in an instant) happen regularly, skills not working, potions not being consumed. A fine mess you have here, ZOS.
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