MagNB - What is our advantage to leverage?
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MassiveFumes✭✭If you came here to learn something or of the sort, Is move along lol.. this whole thread is full of people who don’t know what they’re talking about7 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭
Ah okay. Nobody. NM. I find it hilarious that people think they see ‘questionable’ posts and I’m a noob. Then when they actual try something I’ve said they find out I’m right and send me messages all the time.
I see, so you think you’re good because you follow what someone with a website says is the best spec. Then think everyone else is dumb for not doing it... Meanwhile you’re playing a spec everyone knows the counters to and will always have an upper limit.
The point of that spec was stacking % damage reductions. 10% swift, 15% merciless, minor and major protection for 80% mitigation in 7 light. You didn’t even understand what I was thinking of trying.
No point in replying anymore. No point teaching someone how to play who’s belligerent.
U seriously think that's how percentage based mitigation works?1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think he mainly does BGs and plays healers with a bit of AOE. Haven't looked at that build, though.
You are, of course, correct. Mitigation is multiplicative, except when t3hasiangod tested Merciless on the PTS, it was additive, so that bears looking into.
That is not true, the guy who tests all this stuff is working on it and thinks the formula has changed. Your mitigation is something like tooltip damage * (1 - resistances left over after pen in %) * ( 1 + (sum of all vulnerabilities - sum of all damage reductions)). He’s still tinkering with the formula for specifics.Edited by Iskiab on June 4, 2019 4:33PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just stack DoTs and HoTs. Only problem is there aren't any sets to really do DoT damage and if there are, they never approach the benefit of raw stats and skills or are locked behind a paywa -- I mean "DLC." Then if you do have a build with raw stats, it feels like its incomplete, just like every single other mag build compared to stam.1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just stack DoTs and HoTs. Only problem is there aren't any sets to really do DoT damage and if there are, they never approach the benefit of raw stats and skills or are locked behind a paywa -- I mean "DLC." Then if you do have a build with raw stats, it feels like its incomplete, just like every single other mag build compared to stam.
Raw stat mnb only feels incomplete due to lack of heals and I’d argue that holds true for a proc set build, raw stat build, niche builds, gank builds... none of them are “complete” per se.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
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Raw stat mnb only feels incomplete due to lack of heals and I’d argue that holds true for a proc set build, raw stat build, niche builds, gank builds... none of them are “complete” per se.
Agreed. Downside of having nice buffs, but them all being split amongst different abilities.
I’d love to be able to fit inner light for the buffs, but how? Class feels more stretched now between either healing or doing damage. Taking away duplicate ‘effects’ from NB abilities really restricts what you can do. I’d love to have an ability like forward momentum for mag.Edited by Iskiab on June 4, 2019 7:10PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
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Agreed. Downside of having nice buffs, but them all being split amongst different abilities.
I’d love to be able to fit inner light for the buffs, but how? Class feels more stretched now between either healing or doing damage. Taking away duplicate ‘effects’ from NB abilities really restricts what you can do. I’d love to have an ability like forward momentum for mag.
I run inner light but I give up other possible skills. I also don’t run a major breach skill.
My main issue is I’d like to drop swallow soul front bar but then I have to move cripple to the front bar which screws up my combos.
Spell power pots are just not cost effective to rely on them for crit chance so inner light is a must for my build.Edited by Insco851 on June 4, 2019 7:22PM0 -
DomiNate4NB✭✭@Iskiab - the double take update has snare removal. Tried it out last night (on Xbox) and it's great moving away from 2H. Got room for inner light too.
Destro: concealed, sap, double take (something escape), cloak, inner light, soul harvest
Resto: lotus, fear, path, mutagen, ward, soul siphon
Dropping cripple for lotus (dot hits hard now) makes my combo smooth as silk. Helps gap closers are smooth as well.
Combo: LA resto (proc damage glyph), lotus (procs caul usually), fear, bar swap, soul harvest, concealed/sap spam.
Performed a lot better than trying to start with cripple as it simplified the combo immensely.
Saps extra damage + minor vulnerability from lotus has really helped based on a couple hours of game play last night.
#cautiouslyoptimistic1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭DomiNate4NB wrote: »@Iskiab - the double take update has snare removal. Tried it out last night (on Xbox) and it's great moving away from 2H. Got room for inner light too.
Destro: concealed, sap, double take (something escape), cloak, inner light, soul harvest
Resto: lotus, fear, path, mutagen, ward, soul siphon
Dropping cripple for lotus (dot hits hard now) makes my combo smooth as silk. Helps gap closers are smooth as well.
Combo: LA resto (proc damage glyph), lotus (procs caul usually), fear, bar swap, soul harvest, concealed/sap spam.
Performed a lot better than trying to start with cripple as it simplified the combo immensely.
Saps extra damage + minor vulnerability from lotus has really helped based on a couple hours of game play last night.
#cautiouslyoptimistic
Solid setup and combo.
I tried lotus pre patch but I was not a fan of how glitchy it seemed.
My setup:
FB: swallow soul, Ele Weapon, Fear, merciless, inner light, soul harvest
Bb: cripple, annulment, Rat, dark cloak, shade, undo.
Cripple>Ele>fear>soul harvest>Ele spam/bow proc
I also have the option to preset ele and then LA>Swallow soul for a huge burst combo but hard to guarantee the lineup.
Would love to drop swallow soul but some opponents SS is more reliable as Ele is contingent on the LA landing. (And you gotta have a siphon skill FB)
Edited by Insco851 on June 5, 2019 4:58PM0 -
HEBREWHAMMERRR✭✭✭✭✭Well I got elsweyr finally last night and my magblade is rocking 60k max mag while having shade / cloak to escape. Also have 16.6k stam, 24.6 and 21.5k resistances, 1950 impen and 2050 recovery with 41% crit. So I don’t think other classes can achieve those numbers. As stated, the issue is our self healing. The mitigation from bow is nice and indirectly reduces healing needed. Still playing around with everything. More realistically I will probably drop some mag glyphs for tri stat and mage mundus for lady.2
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Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »Well I got elsweyr finally last night and my magblade is rocking 60k max mag while having shade / cloak to escape. Also have 16.6k stam, 24.6 and 21.5k resistances, 1950 impen and 2050 recovery with 41% crit. So I don’t think other classes can achieve those numbers. As stated, the issue is our self healing. The mitigation from bow is nice and indirectly reduces healing needed. Still playing around with everything. More realistically I will probably drop some mag glyphs for tri stat and mage mundus for lady.
60k lol. Is that with necro/Alfiq?
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fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Until he posts his build on UESP, I won't believe a thing, specifically how you get that much mag AND that much stam AND that much regen together. If this is real at all, it probably includes vamp, Continuous Attack, potion buff and who knows what else. Hopefully not Imperial Physique.
As to other classes achieving the same mag, sure they can. Warden gets the same magicka buffs as magblade and it's arguably easier to keep Necropotence up. Then compare the tooltip of warden birds with Swallow Soul and weep.PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Until he posts his build on UESP, I won't believe a thing, specifically how you get that much mag AND that much stam AND that much regen together. If this is real at all, it probably includes vamp, Continuous Attack, potion buff and who knows what else. Hopefully not Imperial Physique.
As to other classes achieving the same mag, sure they can. Warden gets the same magicka buffs as magblade and it's arguably easier to keep Necropotence up. Then compare the tooltip of warden birds with Swallow Soul and weep.
Pretty sure he is also running some infused large pcs for this as well. I don’t think it’s not possible.
Those might be continuous buffed stats tho with vamp as you said. Also clearly Breton.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Until he posts his build on UESP, I won't believe a thing, specifically how you get that much mag AND that much stam AND that much regen together. If this is real at all, it probably includes vamp, Continuous Attack, potion buff and who knows what else. Hopefully not Imperial Physique.
As to other classes achieving the same mag, sure they can. Warden gets the same magicka buffs as magblade and it's arguably easier to keep Necropotence up. Then compare the tooltip of warden birds with Swallow Soul and weep.
Easily recreated similar stats an uesp in 5 minutes. Dudes not bs’n
(Could push almost 64k apparently?)Edited by Insco851 on June 5, 2019 5:41PM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Has to be. Magblade has nice passives, just a lot of crappy abilities so I try to use guild or weapon skill lines whenever I can.
@Insco851 You could always try reach as the spammable with the DSA staff, back bar the BRP destro staff and use ele ring, then use 3 piece willpower. Ele ring is like cripple but has DD and is AoE, I’m not a fan of cripple anymore since it’s been nerfed.
Front bar Siphoning strikes and maybe cripple back bar? I’m not sure.Edited by Iskiab on June 5, 2019 5:46PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Thanks! 82K Soul Assault with that as well. Hmmm.PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)0 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
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Idk man,
You’ve got no penetration & no crit, are you sure you are killing max level players?Member of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
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M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
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Idk man,
You’ve got no penetration & no crit, are you sure you are killing max level players?
-NOT MY BUILD-
(I did test it last night a bit and it was a tad underwhelming. Probably needed to tweak this a bit from my normal go to traits and such)
Also Hammer might be running sharpened and different skill layout. I just took my normal build and over wrote it with those sets. Hardly min maxed with everything.Edited by Insco851 on June 6, 2019 12:31PM0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This illustrates the huge difference to a proc build, such as mine.
I don't go for Merciless and I don't go for resistances (Protective). Instead I go for more sustain, 2x cost reduction + 2K regen + Breton + Siphoning Attacks + Deep Thoughts, and for speed, 3x Swift + Steed mundus + Concealed. Where Hebrew has good resistances, a big shield, and that new Merciless mitigation buff, I have speed and much better sustain.
He presumably plays ranged, I play melee.
I am able to perma-cloak without a potion, in and out of combat. I would say he can not.
He can fully control his Merciless proc and, at a 24K tooltip it hits harder than my Caluu proc, which has an 18K tooltip. His Swallow Soul tooltip is 11k. My unbuffed Swallow Soul tooltip is below 7K. He hits harder in general, I am presumably the harder hitting ganker.
I can only control the proc via cloak and with Lotus Fan or Concealed and must be at close range for it to work well. He is looking to burst people with his Merciless proc, which he can do from range.
He can be LoSd and outmaneuvered. My build is designed to stay on top of people seeking refuge on rock ledges. I relish keeping up the pressure by running after people trying to LoS. He is looking for the opening to one shot with his burst.
He is arguably safer, because he is at range and has much better mitigation. I put myself at great risk going into melee range with a squishier build, but I am also very, very fast and able to constantly move in and out of range, even without the shade.
As to whether I have the better burst, from cloak, I'm not even sure. I would say, yes, but a partial heavy into Soul Harvest would hit much harder than the same on my build, and his follow-up attacks are much better.
All that said, I love my build. Wouldn't change it for the world. I see nothing here that is clearly better than the other, just very different tradeoffs. I love my speed, which allows me to switch targets and reposition myself much faster than anyone else. A ranged build mitigates some of that by being, well, ranged, but it feels quite different.PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)5 -
DomiNate4NB✭✭I'm of the strong opinion that you identity the skills you like and leverage as the first priority as well. Then gear that maximized those skills. Back into stats and such from there. I've tried to play like other people and still take other builds into consideration as I tinker. Still find that fun. Ultimately I'm the most successful when aligning to personal preference.2
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Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Small update after a few hours with the new patch...
Merciless stacks+Rat+Dark Cloak+Harness is so damn strong. Snares be damned...1 -
Illuvatarr✭✭✭✭✭
Maybe not every class, but some probably. I can’t see a magblade beating a magsorc for example in a duel with equal gear and skill level. No way.
Magblade’s damage is down for last patch, sorc’s is up. It’s early in the patch but that’s my impression yes.
There’s a reason there are more sorcs then ever in pvp.
Magblade is currently the strongest mag class in pvp. You aren’t specced right.
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Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Illuvatarr wrote: »
Magblade is currently the strongest mag class in pvp. You aren’t specced right.
Pretty sure you are mistaken. Strong yes... stronger than broken magsorc? Not even.8 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Illuvatarr wrote: »
Magblade is currently the strongest mag class in pvp. You aren’t specced right.
In what environment? Solo in cyrodiil? Pure damage magblades can do okay in cyrodiil. I’ve yet to see a pure damage magblade perform okay in a BG, definitely not well.
I’m a healer/damage dealer in BGs with 1k+ games played, since the patch I’ve only done maybe 30 but still occasionally see some, they usually do very poorly.Edited by Iskiab on June 7, 2019 2:00PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If I were to gear up my nightblade for pvp I would probably go melee for the higher spell damage and then stack penetration to burst through high resists. Spinners plus amberplasm or bright throats so I could spam cloak / damage / heals.
But I haven't played my nightblade in forever so i really am not an expert.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If I were to gear up my nightblade for pvp I would probably go melee for the higher spell damage and then stack penetration to burst through high resists. Spinners plus amberplasm or bright throats so I could spam cloak / damage / heals.
But I haven't played my nightblade in forever so i really am not an expert.
Those two sets are a good combination, but only for ranged or skirmisher builds. If you try to melee with so little defense you will end up going 0-10 when you hit higher MMR like most the magblades I’ve seen.
Still, people will complain in group chat when they see you on a team. In general the people who play glass canon specs who can’t push with their team make the team weaker.Edited by Iskiab on June 7, 2019 2:37PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2
And defense is the least of your super 1337 Icy Conjuror/Swift build's problems when you decide to slot both elemental ring and sap essence while not bothering with any CC whatsoever lol.