Seriously, this game is too easy and the overworld needs to be buffed heavily.

Ixilith

Personally I’m a new player so prolly don’t have years of doing the content behind me like you guys have

What I do know though, is difficulty sliders won’t work, why? Because people will see it as

A) do the same content for the same rewards. But make it slower on yourself? It just won’t exist. And a minority will use it and it will fade rather fast.

rewards will be so stupidly good everyone uses it and u may aswell delete the easier slider all together.

The way to do it, is likely to add a max level island, which doesn’t scale doesn’t have access to til your maximum level and have it entirely harder then the baselands you level in. For rewards. Each expansion could unlock a new one.

This would maintain the ease of levelling and provide new players with the Time to learn the game while adding a learning curve to the open world game.

Ofcourse this would demand Zos work on more then one place for a expansion launch.

Either this or cut the scaling for the next expansion zones. Meaning it can be more difficult as new players wouldn’t be there.

I was surprised I could go to elsweyr so quickly, enough of the game exists on the scaling to really now provide max level lands.

JiKama

I would like a more difficult overland too. I hate when you do a quest and the villian dies within 2 hits. It's like this is supposed to be interesting or an actual threat? I miss the old days of ESO when things were challenging... I was a Noob back during beta and release, but old Craglorn and Overland bosses were tough. I wish more content would require people to group up, make friends, and complete content. Overland bosses are to easy and the mobs die within 2 hits... Kind of ridiculous.... Especially dolmens... Not a challenge at all... I think VMA is a good example of challenging content, but even then people want it nerfed into nothingness.... You're instantly labeled an elitist if you would like things a little more difficult or having to earn things. Anywho.... I wish my necro skills would function properly and my quest NPC's would show up... I'm gonna go cry about that for awhile

Thorvik_Tyrson

Wildbloom wrote: »

It wouldn't hurt to challenge new players with harder overworld content, I feel. If the game is a little challenging, it creates tougher players in the long run.

That said, I believe that the fear is that the average player (AKA the one that doesn't go to the forums) will load into their new game and fail to defeat the challenges set before them, and thus give up and play something else. The average player these days will lose interest if they don't feel accomplished.

One example I have is a recent post on the WoW Classic forums. A player complained that they logged into the stress-test and ran out of mana before they could kill one normal enemy, so they had to whack it with their staff to kill it (a common theme for new characters in vanilla WoW). The player quit the game and claimed that Classic would fail, and they had 100+ people supporting their argument on the thread. Is this EVERY player? No, but it's some players.

The decent player will barely enjoy slaughtering the overworld content along with the casual player. The decent player will greatly enjoy drudging through harder overworld content while the casual will quit and play something else. One scenario has two types of players in it, the other has one. Guess which one the company that wants people to keep paying for their content chooses?


THAT SAID, I think that overworld content SHOULD get harder as you level up. The fact that stuff dies as easy at level 1 and level 50 always struck me as odd. Every game increases in difficulty as you progress, why not ESO? It's easymode the entire time until you decide to delve into DLC dungeons or vet content, then the difficulty spikes, and since the game has been painfully easy up to this point, the player hasn't gotten very good at the game, they die to the harder content, get kicked by the hardcores in their group, and end up in a terrible situation.

That was a bit of a ramble. TLDR, I think there's a good place for harder overworld content, but I very much understand why ZOS makes it so easy. It'd sure be nice if the enemies in this new expac didn't die in literally two attacks though...

Different players have different abilities/skill levels with the same class. What you find to be easy is not easy for other players using the same class and abilities.

Example: My wife is leveling a warden as her main (She's around class level 37) She is using a bow as her primary weapon. I'm using a staff on my Warden (Class level 26). We both did some Delves together this last Sunday, She was commenting that she would not have been able to solo the Delves herself. On Monday, I took my level 26 Warden and soloed the same dungeon in 15 minutes.


As to the content getting harder as you level. In my experience, It is! I ran into the issue with all of my classes at around class level 20ish, and I had to have a hard look at my gear sets and build. I wound up changing my NB and DK to Stamina builds as the Magic build did not seem to be working/scaling up for them/me and they were a much slower delve clear and I had (still have) difficulties in soloing Delve bosses with them that I do not have with the Sorc, Templar and Warden classes.


So in Summary, while I find the overworld content to be very easy for me with a Warden, my wife is experiencing a much harder difficulty with the same warden class. This is due to player skill/ability and not due to game mechanics.

ZarkingFrued

Overworld content is horribly easy. Its downright shameful.

ZarkingFrued

Devanear wrote: »

I enjoy it as it is. There's harder content in the game for those that enjoy that. I'm playing for the story not the challenge. Not everything in the game has to cater to the same type of players. If this game would suddenly become much harder I would just quit and play some other game where I can enjoy a good story and relax a little.

No ones asking for the Dark Souls version of ESO here, just make me use more than one skill. You dont even need to heal in overworld content. Like not at all lol. Just hit one aoe and keep walking

KingKobra

Agree, 100%

exeeter702

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

Wildbloom wrote: »

It wouldn't hurt to challenge new players with harder overworld content, I feel. If the game is a little challenging, it creates tougher players in the long run.

That said, I believe that the fear is that the average player (AKA the one that doesn't go to the forums) will load into their new game and fail to defeat the challenges set before them, and thus give up and play something else. The average player these days will lose interest if they don't feel accomplished.

One example I have is a recent post on the WoW Classic forums. A player complained that they logged into the stress-test and ran out of mana before they could kill one normal enemy, so they had to whack it with their staff to kill it (a common theme for new characters in vanilla WoW). The player quit the game and claimed that Classic would fail, and they had 100+ people supporting their argument on the thread. Is this EVERY player? No, but it's some players.

The decent player will barely enjoy slaughtering the overworld content along with the casual player. The decent player will greatly enjoy drudging through harder overworld content while the casual will quit and play something else. One scenario has two types of players in it, the other has one. Guess which one the company that wants people to keep paying for their content chooses?


THAT SAID, I think that overworld content SHOULD get harder as you level up. The fact that stuff dies as easy at level 1 and level 50 always struck me as odd. Every game increases in difficulty as you progress, why not ESO? It's easymode the entire time until you decide to delve into DLC dungeons or vet content, then the difficulty spikes, and since the game has been painfully easy up to this point, the player hasn't gotten very good at the game, they die to the harder content, get kicked by the hardcores in their group, and end up in a terrible situation.

That was a bit of a ramble. TLDR, I think there's a good place for harder overworld content, but I very much understand why ZOS makes it so easy. It'd sure be nice if the enemies in this new expac didn't die in literally two attacks though...

Different players have different abilities/skill levels with the same class. What you find to be easy is not easy for other players using the same class and abilities.

Example: My wife is leveling a warden as her main (She's around class level 37) She is using a bow as her primary weapon. I'm using a staff on my Warden (Class level 26). We both did some Delves together this last Sunday, She was commenting that she would not have been able to solo the Delves herself. On Monday, I took my level 26 Warden and soloed the same dungeon in 15 minutes.


As to the content getting harder as you level. In my experience, It is! I ran into the issue with all of my classes at around class level 20ish, and I had to have a hard look at my gear sets and build. I wound up changing my NB and DK to Stamina builds as the Magic build did not seem to be working/scaling up for them/me and they were a much slower delve clear and I had (still have) difficulties in soloing Delve bosses with them that I do not have with the Sorc, Templar and Warden classes.


So in Summary, while I find the overworld content to be very easy for me with a Warden, my wife is experiencing a much harder difficulty with the same warden class. This is due to player skill/ability and not due to game mechanics.

Im going to say this in hopes that it doesnt come as to much of a shock to anyone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a game that isnt for everyone conceptually. That is one of the buggest dividing lines on this subject and why there will simply never be a common ground...

Those that believe a game of ESOs nature should do everything in its power to cater to as many different players as possible so there is something for everyone

Vs

Those that believe a game of ESOs nature should focus on a core ideology to temper all its players under the same standards even if it means the game may not be designed for everyone.

Obviously depending on content cadence and production values, some games can get away with being the later while most unfortunately cant and must adhere to the former. Its a compromise that i fully understand and balancing a game in such a way is not an enviable task from a developer POV. There is a truth to the pitfalls of trying to make your game for everyone and ending up having it not be particularly outstanding for anyone.

SolidusPrime

I have to agree, it feels too easy.

I know they can't and don't want to muck around too much with difficulty and scaling, but I would like to see a zone that is specifically challenging. Like everything in it. It can still scale, just make everything really hard. Like the "trial" of zones.

Or one "trial" area per zone that gives you a heads up of it's difficulty. Could even be another accomplishment category in the zone guide for each zone.

I feel like it also exacerbates the problems newer players face when starting trials and vet dungeons for the first time. It's like someone turned the dial up from 0-10 in an instant. Give us some vet dungeon-level difficulty out in the open world to sharpen our teeth on before throwing us into dungeon queues that end up resenting us for our ignorance and suboptimal builds/gear.

Ingvar798_ESO

Wanted to drop my 2c as I feel this issue is really hurting an otherwise amazing game.

I would not call myself a veteran player. I played the game at launch for a few months. Came back for Morrowind for a few weeks, and have now returned for Elsweyr.

I remember at the launch of the game I had to be careful with pulling too much. Group content was what it sounded like: group content that was incredibly hard (if not impossible) to solo.

Much to my dismay, having leveled my Necro to 50, all of this challenge is gone. I quickly realized that I could pull 10+ mobs at a time and AoE them down, all while keeping my health near max (thanks scythe ability). Group content is easily solo-able, even Skyreach/Craglorn. To be fair, there's a few pieces of content that I had trouble soloing in Craglorn.

To me this makes the Overworld content very bland/boring. I do enjoy the story in ESO, but most of the time the immersion is completely ruined by some NPC telling me how dangerous this guy is, and then I run over and 3 shot them and all their goons. The story fundamentally breaks in these incidents. Personally the content in Overworld felt so boring that I almost quit, just a few days returned.

I stuck through it to 50 and yes, there is harder group content at 50 but that's not the point. There used to be challenging solo content in this game, and it appears 1T erased that. The common theme in this thread that people use to defend the easy Overworld is that there is harder content at the end of the game.

My counterpoint would be that the harder content is all group oriented (sans vMA) and MOST of the content in this game is the overland quests. Making them this easy destroys most of the game for a player like me who wants to be challenged in all aspects of the game.

If this thread is any indication, this is a controversial subject and there are people on both sides of the fence. That's why I'm in favor of a "hardmode" Overworld mode, as some have suggested in this thread. Yes it has cons, but it has the massive pro of not alienating people who want to be challenged.

Aireal

Ingvar798_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to drop my 2c as I feel this issue is really hurting an otherwise amazing game.

I would not call myself a veteran player. I played the game at launch for a few months. Came back for Morrowind for a few weeks, and have now returned for Elsweyr.


Much to my dismay, having leveled my Necro to 50, all of this challenge is gone. I quickly realized that I could pull 10+ mobs at a time and AoE them down, all while keeping my health near max (thanks scythe ability). Group content is easily solo-able, even Skyreach/Craglorn. To be fair, there's a few pieces of content that I had trouble soloing in Craglorn.

To me this makes the Overworld content very bland/boring. I do enjoy the story in ESO, but most of the time the immersion is completely ruined by some NPC telling me how dangerous this guy is, and then I run over and 3 shot them and all their goons. The story fundamentally breaks in these incidents. Personally the content in Overworld felt so boring that I almost quit, just a few days returned.
<snipped for length >

Let me get this straight... you started a Necro char and a few days later, after leveling to 50 and finding the over world to easy... want to quit?

This is one of the places where "skill" overrides a lower level character... you know the mechanics of the game well enough to level a character to 50 in a few days... grind? ( I'm not dissing that btw, it's a thing and I know people like to level fast)



Exeeter702.. those who want a harder content would loose that fight... unless a mod could be made or new version come out with "legendary " on it... ESO is based on the other TES games. . And the overworld pretty much works the same way. Not exactly..because of the nature of single person versus MMO...

The dungeons have always been harder... though truthfully, away from towns and starter areas was too. But you had ( usually) leveled by the time you got there... so only slightly more challenging, unless you min/maxed.. then not challenging at all.

JMO on the Vs idea.

Sven... still working on that under 20 solo WB... gotta be Solo.. <sigh>

Mik195

Ok, how about we buff people having trouble? If you die 3 times you get the chance to have a 10% buff, rinse and repeat until you can beat the boss (or the mudcrab). So increased difficulty and a crutch for those who need the help. And no change to rewards because if you need all the buffs you probably also need best gear possible.

Thokri

I agree, I enjoyed doing overland stuff when I had no cp way more than currently.


Nor I want to go naked during "free time" because I like to do a lot group content where I need to have gear an cp points on to not but strain on others.

Kinda like idea to find people to do vet dungeons etc. naked and without cp some time, just not enough time to do that and regular stuff currently.

Gear addons have option to switch for "costume gear" but and somwhat change cp but it is too much work and bit expensive to do all the time.

I leveled my necro with low level training gear&without cp (mainly because I forgot to set it ) and it was kinda of fun when mobs did actually damage and did not one shot pack.

Aireal

Mik195 wrote: »

Ok, how about we buff people having trouble? If you die 3 times you get the chance to have a 10% buff, rinse and repeat until you can beat the boss (or the mudcrab). So increased difficulty and a crutch for those who need the help. And no change to rewards because if you need all the buffs you probably also need best gear possible.

Why, then you dont learn... that's like asking those with lots of experience and game mechanic skills to debuff by 10% or more...OH and forget how to play the game.

Bam_Bam

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I know ZOS is trying to make their game as easy as possible for people ot zoom right through as if they're speedrunning. But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging, maybe similar to soloing a solo-able world boss. Aside from everything else, I'm not saying we need harder vet dungeons (we do, they're incredibly easy besides a few DLC ones), but I am saying we need a harder overworld.

During beta and at launch, the difficulty was really ramped up. Plus no one knew what they were doing - no uber meta builds, just trial & error. I found it that difficult in the first few days that I properly rage quit AD and didn't make another bloody elf for 4 years lol.

Back to the present - it would be great if they introduced a hard mode. More choice is always a great thing.

exeeter702

Aireal wrote: »

Ingvar798_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to drop my 2c as I feel this issue is really hurting an otherwise amazing game.

I would not call myself a veteran player. I played the game at launch for a few months. Came back for Morrowind for a few weeks, and have now returned for Elsweyr.


Much to my dismay, having leveled my Necro to 50, all of this challenge is gone. I quickly realized that I could pull 10+ mobs at a time and AoE them down, all while keeping my health near max (thanks scythe ability). Group content is easily solo-able, even Skyreach/Craglorn. To be fair, there's a few pieces of content that I had trouble soloing in Craglorn.

To me this makes the Overworld content very bland/boring. I do enjoy the story in ESO, but most of the time the immersion is completely ruined by some NPC telling me how dangerous this guy is, and then I run over and 3 shot them and all their goons. The story fundamentally breaks in these incidents. Personally the content in Overworld felt so boring that I almost quit, just a few days returned.
<snipped for length >

Exeeter702.. those who want a harder content would loose that fight... unless a mod could be made or new version come out with "legendary " on it... ESO is based on the other TES games. . And the overworld pretty much works the same way. Not exactly..because of the nature of single person versus MMO...

The dungeons have always been harder... though truthfully, away from towns and starter areas was too. But you had ( usually) leveled by the time you got there... so only slightly more challenging, unless you min/maxed.. then not challenging at all.

i dont get why you would draw the line at "legendary". An organic difficulty curve that adheres to an overall game wide standard where valuable lessons are taught to new players as they progress through overland content is not the same as wanting a legendary overland mode. This has nothing to do with single player TES entries as they are fundamentally different games and obey entirely different rules, im purely speaking on behalf of games willing to tell it players its ok to fail and provide them with the necessary tools and information to overcome a challenge or otherwise achieve a win condition. There is very little meaningful engagement for those that want some form of push back or opposition in overland content which again goes back to my intial point...

Compartmentalized content that caters to isolated player demographcis is fine if you want to create a space for every type of player. The issue with this design approach is that when a player on the lower spectrum decides to venture outside their comfort zone, they tend to acclimate very poorly. Creating more meaningful overland opposition potentially solves the issue of players becoming better rather than plateauing. It doenst have to be extraordinarily difficult obviously and no one suggests as much. I simply come from the generation/mindset that believes the best kind of online games are the ones that treat all players as equals right out of the gates, provides the necessary tools to succeed and tells them to sink or swim while offering various teirs of content with varying ranges of difficulty.

I'm also of the generation/mindset that feels there is little reason to play game if you arent engaged enough to desire improving and overcoming a challenge. I believe therenare 2 kinds of people (gamers) that after an 8 hour day, there are those that sit down with controller /kb mouse in hand and want to shut their brian off and those that want to turn it up to 11. And that is coming from a early 30s family man with a salary job.

Creating a meaningful overland environment for cp 810 characters is an entirely separate can of worms but for myself and my friends in game, this has effected are ability to enjoy all of the 3 chapters released.

Ingvar798_ESO

Let me get this straight... you started a Necro char and a few days later, after leveling to 50 and finding the over world to easy... want to quit?

This is one of the places where "skill" overrides a lower level character... you know the mechanics of the game well enough to level a character to 50 in a few days... grind? ( I'm not dissing that btw, it's a thing and I know people like to level fast)

I had friends who didn't want to level a new char with Elsweyr and wanted to do Vet dungeons so, yes, I grinded 50 out in a few days. Was pretty easy given the insane amount of XP scrolls I had banked up from this old account.

When I started I was just doing Overland quests but, as I mentioned, that got boring real quick so I swapped to grinding so I could get to the challenging content faster.

Aireal

exeeter702 wrote: »

i dont get why you would draw the line at "legendary". An organic difficulty curve that adheres to an overall game wide standard where valuable lessons are taught to new players as they progress through overland content is not the same as wanting a legendary overland mode. This has nothing to do with single player TES entries as they are fundamentally different games and obey entirely different rules, im purely speaking on behalf of games willing to tell it players its ok to fail and provide them with the necessary tools and information to overcome a challenge or otherwise achieve a win condition. There is very little meaningful engagement for those that want some form of push .

I just use Legendary as an example, as that is what Beth did with Skyrim... I also said use mods which wont work either.

I have no issues with the game getting harder as one progresses through it . I level up slow enough to suit me... suit the style of play I do...and in the case of being fairly new... learn how to adapt, learn the skills.

I'm also of the generation/mindset that feels there is little reason to play game if you arent engaged enough to desire improving and overcoming a challenge. I believe therenare 2 kinds of people (gamers) that after an 8 hour day, there are those that sit down with controller /kb mouse in hand and want to shut their brian off and those that want to turn it up to 11. And that is coming from a early 30s family man with a salary job.

Creating a meaningful overland environment for cp 810 characters is an entirely separate can of worms but for myself and my friends in game, this has effected are ability to enjoy all of the 3 chapters released.

After 8 hrs of dealing with the public, you can tell the exact kinda day I've had by which game and character I load up.

Bad day dealing with completely entitled jerks...I load up Skyrim, Tia whiteblade... 2h barbarian, go to a spot i know spawns some of the toughest modded in monsters and hack and slash my way past all jerks i felt with.

Good day.. if I'm mellow, Morrowind... i love the mental experience of many of the quest lines. Finish off a quest, get ready for a new one,

Then load up ESO.. There isn't that much mental challenge and at the level all my characters are their is just enough physical challenge. I explore, gather mats and maybe a quest.

I will get to "endgame"... eventually.

I I'm from an older generation.. but age has nothing to do with the way I feel about it... I have friends that play Eso that are old enough to be one of my parents,,,and I have a 29 y/o...

Synnastix

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Devanear wrote: »

I enjoy it as it is. There's harder content in the game for those that enjoy that. I'm playing for the story not the challenge. Not everything in the game has to cater to the same type of players. If this game would suddenly become much harder I would just quit and play some other game where I can enjoy a good story and relax a little.

There really isn't. Trials and vet dlc dungeons are a jok ewhen you go there with a proper group. ESO PvE is too easy, and it's not just overland.

Says you, I’ve been here since beta and don’t to vet let alone hard modes because it is too hard or takes too long. Not that I couldn’t, I just have no desire to bang my head against a wall “learning proper rotations”, farming the “correct” gear, spec “properly” for a role, or committing potentially hours to fail at something only to say I completed it. I did enough of that raiding in WoW and have neither the desire nor time to do it again.

I am a casual. I enjoy ESO for the story and option to be laid back or challenging depending on how I feel. If it’s not hard core enough for you, they maybe you need a new game or hobbies outside of the game that will give you the challenge and feeling of satisfaction you are looking for?

Androconium

Because housing.

kathandira

Ive slain Daedra. Saved thousands from an army of demons. Ive been named the champion of gods!!!!

But I really wish that starter zone cutpurse was able to go toe to toe with me. Ya know, because immersion.

Jeremy

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Level scaling is not the problem. The game is just too easy in the overland areas and public delves. A difficulty slider for each and every player is NOT the answer, because the devs have already made clear it's a non-starter. What the devs CAN do is adjust the overall difficulty. The overland difficulty when the game launched was fine, so I don't see why we can't return to that level of challenge.

Strangely enough, the difficulty of Vet DLC dungeons has gotten way too high, in my opinion and the opinions of many other players. Why can't ZOS just make medium difficulty content like the original base game had?

Good post and I tend to agree. But I suspect if they were to increase the overland difficulty for everyone you'd get a severe backlash from a lot of the population. This game was too hard for a lot of people when it first came out. I remember because I had friends who quit because of it. I however enjoyed it and would love to see that level of difficulty return to the landscape, delves and public dungeons. That's why I say probably an optional solution is best - such as veteran zones.

navystylz_ESO

exeeter702 wrote: »

Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »

Wildbloom wrote: »

It wouldn't hurt to challenge new players with harder overworld content, I feel. If the game is a little challenging, it creates tougher players in the long run.

That said, I believe that the fear is that the average player (AKA the one that doesn't go to the forums) will load into their new game and fail to defeat the challenges set before them, and thus give up and play something else. The average player these days will lose interest if they don't feel accomplished.

One example I have is a recent post on the WoW Classic forums. A player complained that they logged into the stress-test and ran out of mana before they could kill one normal enemy, so they had to whack it with their staff to kill it (a common theme for new characters in vanilla WoW). The player quit the game and claimed that Classic would fail, and they had 100+ people supporting their argument on the thread. Is this EVERY player? No, but it's some players.

The decent player will barely enjoy slaughtering the overworld content along with the casual player. The decent player will greatly enjoy drudging through harder overworld content while the casual will quit and play something else. One scenario has two types of players in it, the other has one. Guess which one the company that wants people to keep paying for their content chooses?


THAT SAID, I think that overworld content SHOULD get harder as you level up. The fact that stuff dies as easy at level 1 and level 50 always struck me as odd. Every game increases in difficulty as you progress, why not ESO? It's easymode the entire time until you decide to delve into DLC dungeons or vet content, then the difficulty spikes, and since the game has been painfully easy up to this point, the player hasn't gotten very good at the game, they die to the harder content, get kicked by the hardcores in their group, and end up in a terrible situation.

That was a bit of a ramble. TLDR, I think there's a good place for harder overworld content, but I very much understand why ZOS makes it so easy. It'd sure be nice if the enemies in this new expac didn't die in literally two attacks though...

Different players have different abilities/skill levels with the same class. What you find to be easy is not easy for other players using the same class and abilities.

Example: My wife is leveling a warden as her main (She's around class level 37) She is using a bow as her primary weapon. I'm using a staff on my Warden (Class level 26). We both did some Delves together this last Sunday, She was commenting that she would not have been able to solo the Delves herself. On Monday, I took my level 26 Warden and soloed the same dungeon in 15 minutes.


As to the content getting harder as you level. In my experience, It is! I ran into the issue with all of my classes at around class level 20ish, and I had to have a hard look at my gear sets and build. I wound up changing my NB and DK to Stamina builds as the Magic build did not seem to be working/scaling up for them/me and they were a much slower delve clear and I had (still have) difficulties in soloing Delve bosses with them that I do not have with the Sorc, Templar and Warden classes.


So in Summary, while I find the overworld content to be very easy for me with a Warden, my wife is experiencing a much harder difficulty with the same warden class. This is due to player skill/ability and not due to game mechanics.

Im going to say this in hopes that it doesnt come as to much of a shock to anyone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a game that isnt for everyone conceptually. That is one of the buggest dividing lines on this subject and why there will simply never be a common ground...

Those that believe a game of ESOs nature should do everything in its power to cater to as many different players as possible so there is something for everyone

Vs

Those that believe a game of ESOs nature should focus on a core ideology to temper all its players under the same standards even if it means the game may not be designed for everyone.

Obviously depending on content cadence and production values, some games can get away with being the later while most unfortunately cant and must adhere to the former. Its a compromise that i fully understand and balancing a game in such a way is not an enviable task from a developer POV. There is a truth to the pitfalls of trying to make your game for everyone and ending up having it not be particularly outstanding for anyone.

This is why a lot of newer games in development with Kickstarter are returning to MMO roots. Because these developers understand something vital was lost with this "cater to everyone" mentality. It doesn't work. When you cater to all, you have a great experience for none.

I'm not a stellar player, and I might be in minority when I find something difficult and like to chip away at it until I find a solution. But I find it absolutely mind blowing ANY type of player can find the overland content difficult. Also, why is it a bad thing to need to be social and get help to complete something?

Mik195 wrote: »

Ok, how about we buff people having trouble? If you die 3 times you get the chance to have a 10% buff, rinse and repeat until you can beat the boss (or the mudcrab). So increased difficulty and a crutch for those who need the help. And no change to rewards because if you need all the buffs you probably also need best gear possible.

Or let players hire bodyguards. Never used them in TES but sounds like raising difficulty and letting players who are skill handicap use them could work.

I can't even respond to the arguments that some people find overland content difficult without being rude. This is the issue with games trying to cater to everyone and not expect a modicum skill to be developed. So glad new games are being developed that understand trying to cater to everyone is not sustainable.

mongoLC

Cool story. Don't use your champ points or craft your new character any gear then come back and QQ

Bryath

Kagukan wrote: »

Went to Elsweyr for the first time this past weekend. I saw a lot of new players. I also saw a lot of new players taking a long time to kill things. I also saw lots of new players die when they had multiple NPC's on them. And I also had a few new players following me through delves because it was taking them too long.

That's why most games have a newbie zone. Here, 90%+ of the games quest content is at newbie zone difficulty.
Re: delves - of course people will follow you through, the other options are to 1) wait 5-10 minutes for mobs to respawn or 2) run through an empty delve getting no xp or drops.

Side note: I have finally gotten around to doing the main quest and was pleasantly surprised to see a boss with over 500k HP. Other bosses have also been more difficult than anything overland/delve has thrown at me. These quests are intended to be done before level 50, and are solo ONLY. If so many players need the difficulty to stay where it is, why do we not see a ton of threads complaining that the main quest is too difficult?

Aireal

Navystylz_ESO
This is why a lot of newer games in development with Kickstarter. Because these developers understand something vital was lost with this "cater to everyone" mentality. It doesn't work. When you cater to all, you have a great experience for none.

Yeah, I'd be thrilled if TES had stuck to Morrowind style play for all their games... of course we wouldn't be debating on how easy the overworld is for some and not others... but how "handholding " and easy those arrows above destination and quests starts are.

Not everyone is a great player... some people have limitations on time. Those people might now want a tougher fight just to get to the quest dungeon

I have a friend that has satelite internet, her BW doesn't allow for even most dungeons, dolmens or WB's .. make the overworld tougher and it might be to much and she'd gave to quit.

One of my dear friends sons plays... but his motor skills wouldn't allow for tougher fights. He plays on x-box one or I'd help him out. Bodyguard wise.

When I say it's tough enough, I dont just mean for me personally.. I dont mind a challenge, just not always.

The content is there for many types of people to play many different ways. It IS up to the individual to figure out how that is... you want challenge? Use the tools the Devs gave you and the brain you were born with..

"You" can't change your skills and knowledge of the game... but you can change how you play it... Death with Consequences... everytime you die, loose all your gear.. No "other char crafted gear" only what that char can make.

Their IS a way to challenge ypurself... it's an open world Mmorpg

Sylvermynx

Aireal wrote: »

Navystylz_ESO
This is why a lot of newer games in development with Kickstarter. Because these developers understand something vital was lost with this "cater to everyone" mentality. It doesn't work. When you cater to all, you have a great experience for none.

Yeah, I'd be thrilled if TES had stuck to Morrowind style play for all their games... of course we wouldn't be debating on how easy the overworld is for some and not others... but how "handholding " and easy those arrows above destination and quests starts are.

Not everyone is a great player... some people have limitations on time. Those people might now want a tougher fight just to get to the quest dungeon

I have a friend that has satelite internet, her BW doesn't allow for even most dungeons, dolmens or WB's .. make the overworld tougher and it might be to much and she'd gave to quit.

One of my dear friends sons plays... but his motor skills wouldn't allow for tougher fights. He plays on x-box one or I'd help him out. Bodyguard wise.

When I say it's tough enough, I dont just mean for me personally.. I dont mind a challenge, just not always.

The content is there for many types of people to play many different ways. It IS up to the individual to figure out how that is... you want challenge? Use the tools the Devs gave you and the brain you were born with..

"You" can't change your skills and knowledge of the game... but you can change how you play it... Death with Consequences... everytime you die, loose all your gear.. No "other char crafted gear" only what that char can make.

Their IS a way to challenge ypurself... it's an open world Mmorpg

Thanks Sis. Yeah, my previous sat company didn't really allow for me to play the game anywhere close to "well". I'm already blown away by HughesNet - it's so much faster and smoother than wildblue that I can actually visualize being able to really PLAY THE GAME.

Kind of unreal, y'know? I'm looking forward to getting back in game - tonight I just logged in to get the daily rewards on both accounts because I don't want to miss the mount (and THANK YOU ZOS for not thinking you had to have codes just because I changed dish and modem/router - unlike my banks.... Jeez - added nearly 10 minutes to trying to get the bills paid before I wound up with mega-fees!) and it was so fast and smooth I had to pick my jaw up off the floor....

Challenge is a very personal thing. I don't play a game of any sort to be challenged. I play games to escape. Escape =/= challenge, for me. Challenge for me was my early life. Nope not going into detail, as it's not germane to the issue. Just at this point in life, challenge is dealing with the day to day issues - we got 10+ feet of snow this winter, husband (85 in a couple of months) had a fractured vertebra so couldn't shovel, I'm 71 and in good shape, but shoveling does NOT agree with me etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseam. So you could say this last 6+ months was my challenge. I didn't and don't need one from a game I play to get away.

Chadak

exeeter702 wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

Juponen wrote: »

Veteran verion of overland is

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

the decent players can actually enjoy the story content once again.

How does harder mobs make story content more enjoyable for you decent players?

If we have to explain that to you you wont ever get it.

If you can't explain your position, you don't have a position anyone should care about.

Cant and wont are not the same

Can't and won't both get dismissed without consideration, so consider them two paths off the same cliff.

Do better or be ignored.

Chadak

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

No one even mentioned needing better rewards.

You mean except almost everyone on every one of these threads that pop up every single day?

Because I've seen an awful lot of these threads come and go, and they always feature the same rhetoric.

"MAKE IT HARDER AND GIVE US BETTER REWARDS”

You can already make it harder by downgrading your gear and not spending your own CP.

"ZOMG I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT I DESERVE I'M ENTITLED I NEED IT WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER FOR THE GAME IF EVERYONE WOULD LOVE IT”

So you really weren't interested in more difficulty at all, your just flipping tables because what you really want is better rewards because you feel you're in a higher level than most other players.

”ZOMG THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL I JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN WHY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND”

I think the problem here is that I do understand and holy crap does that make some of you as mad as my fourteen year old nephew when he thinks he's being clever asking for money ’so he can get something nice for his little sister' when what he actually wants to do is keep the change.

Sylvermynx

Chadak wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

No one even mentioned needing better rewards.

You mean except almost everyone on every one of these threads that pop up every single day?

Because I've seen an awful lot of these threads come and go, and they always feature the same rhetoric.

"MAKE IT HARDER AND GIVE US BETTER REWARDS”

You can already make it harder by downgrading your gear and not spending your own CP.

"ZOMG I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT I DESERVE I'M ENTITLED I NEED IT WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER FOR THE GAME IF EVERYONE WOULD LOVE IT”

So you really weren't interested in more difficulty at all, your just flipping tables because what you really want is better rewards because you feel you're in a higher level than most other players.

”ZOMG THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL I JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN WHY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND”

I think the problem here is that I do understand and holy crap does that make some of you as mad as my fourteen year old nephew when he thinks he's being clever asking for money ’so he can get something nice for his little sister' when what he actually wants to do is keep the change.

Have an Awesome. Spot on. Thanks.

Aireal

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Navystylz_ESO
This is why a lot of newer games in development with Kickstarter. Because these developers understand something vital was lost with this "cater to everyone" mentality. It doesn't work. When you cater to all, you have a great experience for none.

Yeah, I'd be thrilled if TES had stuck to Morrowind style play for all their games... of course we wouldn't be debating on how easy the overworld is for some and not others... but how "handholding " and easy those arrows above destination and quests starts are.

Not everyone is a great player... some people have limitations on time. Those people might now want a tougher fight just to get to the quest dungeon

I have a friend that has satelite internet, her BW doesn't allow for even most dungeons, dolmens or WB's .. make the overworld tougher and it might be to much and she'd gave to quit.

One of my dear friends sons plays... but his motor skills wouldn't allow for tougher fights. He plays on x-box one or I'd help him out. Bodyguard wise.

When I say it's tough enough, I dont just mean for me personally.. I dont mind a challenge, just not always.

The content is there for many types of people to play many different ways. It IS up to the individual to figure out how that is... you want challenge? Use the tools the Devs gave you and the brain you were born with..

"You" can't change your skills and knowledge of the game... but you can change how you play it... Death with Consequences... everytime you die, loose all your gear.. No "other char crafted gear" only what that char can make.

Their IS a way to challenge ypurself... it's an open world Mmorpg

Thanks Sis. Yeah, my previous sat company didn't really allow for me to play the game anywhere close to "well". I'm already blown away by HughesNet - it's so much faster and smoother than wildblue that I can actually visualize being able to really PLAY THE GAME.

Yer very welcome Sis...< happy dance> better internet... you know vive been there done ghat!