if u want balance dont look at cp pvp

HalvarIronfist

Noctus wrote: »

cp pvp is a lost cause its unbalanced and wont ever be saved. nocp pvp is far superior and very well balanced. no need to ask for nerfs when u see a sorc or warden take down 20 people solo. just go no cp pvp. i wont understand why ppl even go for cp pvp. its garbage in my opinion.

cp should be removed from pvp in general. pvp should rly just be like nocp cyrodiil and battlegrounds in the game and then just focus on balancing that.

u can also make a 1 vs x nocp build but that will take far more effort and mechanical skill (resource management, timing, reflexes) in the game.

Edit:
name me any set and i can make it work for nocp pvp thats how balanced and skill dependant nocp is.... u cant do the same in cp pvp.

As someone who will play either CP or No-Cp. I prefer no-cp, just because I find that more personally fun, along with more of my guild/friends who rather play this. However...


"u can also make a 1 vs x nocp build but that will take far more effort and mechanical skill (resource management, timing, reflexes) in the game."

You have to be joking. I'm not a normal magbuild player, but I can fiddle my way through 1vX on magsorc and Magden pretty easily. There's no more effort in pressing the same buttons in the same combination as I would in CP PVP. Do stats change? Sure. Will some gear change because of it, sure. Will it effect everything down to the very core of PVP? no. I still hit people with an ability, they still die, doesn't take 'skill' to 1vX with all builds.

Illuvatarr

It is hard to take anyone who advocates for cp pvp seriously due to just how overpowered the thief and warrior trees are. They remove the need for resource management and positioning strategy from the game almost completely.

Durham

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It is hard to take anyone who advocates for cp pvp seriously due to just how overpowered the thief and warrior trees are. They remove the need for resource management and positioning strategy from the game almost completely.

Yea dots and proc sets use a ton of strategy.. Build diversity is the major reason people like CP. I have played both .. not a fan of no cp because the game is not balanced for it. No Cp get hit really hard when a set is over performing..

Noctus

Durham wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It is hard to take anyone who advocates for cp pvp seriously due to just how overpowered the thief and warrior trees are. They remove the need for resource management and positioning strategy from the game almost completely.

Yea dots and proc sets use a ton of strategy.. Build diversity is the major reason people like CP. I have played both .. not a fan of no cp because the game is not balanced for it. No Cp get hit really hard when a set is over performing..

its the opposite. game is not balanced on cp pvp. certain builds just outperform all others there is no real diversity. meanwhile in nocp i even have a build with oblivions foe and other dead sets. diversity is with no cp pvp and not the other way around. (as i stated i can make any set work on no cp with any traits)

also in a fight in cp pvp with 2 experienced ppl the one who dies is simply the one who got bored first becouse the resources beeing so abundant.

Durham

Noctus wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It is hard to take anyone who advocates for cp pvp seriously due to just how overpowered the thief and warrior trees are. They remove the need for resource management and positioning strategy from the game almost completely.

Yea dots and proc sets use a ton of strategy.. Build diversity is the major reason people like CP. I have played both .. not a fan of no cp because the game is not balanced for it. No Cp get hit really hard when a set is over performing..

its the opposite. game is not balanced on cp pvp. certain builds just outperform all others there is no real diversity. meanwhile in nocp i even have a build with oblivions foe and other dead sets. diversity is with no cp pvp and not the other way around. (as i stated i can make any set work on no cp with any traits)

also in a fight in cp pvp with 2 experienced ppl the one who dies is simply the one who got bored first becouse the resources beeing so abundant.

Master Weapon Bleeds are not balanced for no CP ... They so much more easier to deal with in CP. You can actually run a Hybrid DK in PVP in a CP Campaign. In a no CP campaign its extreamily hard. I have probally 15 differnt builds on my DK in my vaults. 12 of the them work nicely in CP however in non CP they are trash due to fact you cant manage resources. There are CP passives that are game breaking that people miss in a ton builds. I play stam in Non CP after i break stun Im charged the full cost of my Vigor in CP it only cost 20%. In no CP Im forced to running Bone Pirate for recovery and stam. In CP because I do not need near the recovery I put together a ton of sets that I would not think about for NON CP.... Build diversity is defeinately less in NON CP.
NON CP does even the playing field imo and Im not against NON CP however people will not give up years of build a toon with CP to have it taken away and ZOS knows this. BGs will always have limited popularity because they are no CP. I know people that feel so strongly about CP that they will stop playing the game. There are a ton of people lke this!

Noctus

Durham wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It is hard to take anyone who advocates for cp pvp seriously due to just how overpowered the thief and warrior trees are. They remove the need for resource management and positioning strategy from the game almost completely.

Yea dots and proc sets use a ton of strategy.. Build diversity is the major reason people like CP. I have played both .. not a fan of no cp because the game is not balanced for it. No Cp get hit really hard when a set is over performing..

its the opposite. game is not balanced on cp pvp. certain builds just outperform all others there is no real diversity. meanwhile in nocp i even have a build with oblivions foe and other dead sets. diversity is with no cp pvp and not the other way around. (as i stated i can make any set work on no cp with any traits)

also in a fight in cp pvp with 2 experienced ppl the one who dies is simply the one who got bored first becouse the resources beeing so abundant.

Master Weapon Bleeds are not balanced for no CP ... They so much more easier to deal with in CP. You can actually run a Hybrid DK in PVP in a CP Campaign. In a no CP campaign its extreamily hard. I have probally 15 differnt builds on my DK in my vaults. 12 of the them work nicely in CP however in non CP they are trash due to fact you cant manage resources. There are CP passives that are game breaking that people miss in a ton builds. I play stam in Non CP after i break stun Im charged the full cost of my Vigor in CP it only cost 20%. In no CP Im forced to running Bone Pirate for recovery and stam. In CP because I do not need near the recovery I put together a ton of sets that I would not think about for NON CP.... Build diversity is defeinately less in NON CP.
NON CP does even the playing field imo and Im not against NON CP however people will not give up years of build a toon with CP to have it taken away and ZOS knows this. BGs will always have limited popularity because they are no CP. I know people that feel so strongly about CP that they will stop playing the game. There are a ton of people lke this!

are u trolling ? when was the last time u saw any glasscannon in cp pvp ? in no cp any playstyle is viable. if u wanna be effective in cp pvp u go defense alot especially impen. in no cp thats an option not a neccessity thats the difference.

Waffennacht

Being forced to manage resources = healthy PvP
Being forced to make cost-benefit analysis = healthy PvP
Stengths and Weaknesses = healthy PvP
Diversity = healthy PvP

Which of the formats has more traits of a healthy PvP environment?

SilverPaws

No cp is far from balanced pvp.. If you like it fine be there, but don't bother us who actually enjoy cp pvp. And whole game is balanced around cp points so stop spreading nonsense.

Durham

Noctus wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

It is hard to take anyone who advocates for cp pvp seriously due to just how overpowered the thief and warrior trees are. They remove the need for resource management and positioning strategy from the game almost completely.

Yea dots and proc sets use a ton of strategy.. Build diversity is the major reason people like CP. I have played both .. not a fan of no cp because the game is not balanced for it. No Cp get hit really hard when a set is over performing..

its the opposite. game is not balanced on cp pvp. certain builds just outperform all others there is no real diversity. meanwhile in nocp i even have a build with oblivions foe and other dead sets. diversity is with no cp pvp and not the other way around. (as i stated i can make any set work on no cp with any traits)

also in a fight in cp pvp with 2 experienced ppl the one who dies is simply the one who got bored first becouse the resources beeing so abundant.

Master Weapon Bleeds are not balanced for no CP ... They so much more easier to deal with in CP. You can actually run a Hybrid DK in PVP in a CP Campaign. In a no CP campaign its extreamily hard. I have probally 15 differnt builds on my DK in my vaults. 12 of the them work nicely in CP however in non CP they are trash due to fact you cant manage resources. There are CP passives that are game breaking that people miss in a ton builds. I play stam in Non CP after i break stun Im charged the full cost of my Vigor in CP it only cost 20%. In no CP Im forced to running Bone Pirate for recovery and stam. In CP because I do not need near the recovery I put together a ton of sets that I would not think about for NON CP.... Build diversity is defeinately less in NON CP.
NON CP does even the playing field imo and Im not against NON CP however people will not give up years of build a toon with CP to have it taken away and ZOS knows this. BGs will always have limited popularity because they are no CP. I know people that feel so strongly about CP that they will stop playing the game. There are a ton of people lke this!

are u trolling ? when was the last time u saw any glasscannon in cp pvp ? in no cp any playstyle is viable. if u wanna be effective in cp pvp u go defense alot especially impen. in no cp thats an option not a neccessity thats the difference.

Saw one last night, he was straight up glass cannon. Also Im not that defensive atm. I do run high impen but about 21-22k Armor. In no CP you better wear impen just like CP. Every piece should have impen on it especially since you cant get to 3300 Impen without CP and Impen on every piece. So no Im not trolling.

I do agree with some of your points. I do not like the fact 2 experienced players have a tough time killing each other. Fights are so long that eventually your over-ran. All Im saying is that No-CP is not the savior. No CP has its own issues mainly to do with balancing.

No CP is a dead horse that has been rejected on all platforms except PC. Even on PC it has a much smaller PVP population then CP. I honestly like non CP and have little preference between the two. But within my guild I have many that will step foot in NON CP zones. One of those people I have been gaming with for 15 years.

Zos needs to fix this duel platform honestly. But before they do anything THEY NEED TO FIX THE LAG IN CYRODIIL.

SilverPaws

It's possible this is troll thread, no good pvper would ever say no cp is balanced pvp

Noctus

SilverPaws wrote: »

It's possible this is troll thread, no good pvper would ever say no cp is balanced pvp

enlighten me about whats unbalanced ?

bigelle.x3_ESO

SilverPaws wrote: »

It's possible this is troll thread, no good pvper would ever say no cp is balanced pvp

Good pvpers disagree with you.

Strider__Roshin

Urvoth wrote: »

Pretty much. Cp is a crutch for people who can’t sustain and want to be tanky so they aren’t immediately punished for making mistakes.

I’m way over max cp and most of the other no cp players I know are as well, so that’s a non argument. Also cp players always complain about proc sets in non cp, but never give examples. The only proc set that’s commonly used is valkyn, and if that’s the only reason you’re dying, there’s probably l2p issues there.

Non-CP is by far worse in terms of balance. In non-CP you can wear full heavy and mow people down with Proc sets and DoTs. CP isn't perfectly balanced, but to suggest that Non-CP is better is pure ignorance.

Durham

Honestly none of this matters with the lag in Cyrodiil currently, and abismal performance of Gameplay. Like always you have guilds that open promote running 48 people running in ball creating a latency that is unbearable to play these guys continue to destroy PVP. They scream this is a AVAVA area your suppose to play this way. No its not the way your suppose to play its the way you choose to play because its the most effective due to the way healing works. Spreading out would be so much better gameplay but I understand this is a dead horse.

Populations will continue to fall because of the performance of this game. People still come into Vevic all the time and say "HOW DO YOU GUYS PLAY IN THIS" Its been years now its not going to be fixed. ZOS is aware of this lag and they cant fix it due to the fact they would have to change so much of coding of abilites and how they work. This would affect PVE and that is the true bread and butter of this game.

bigelle.x3_ESO

Daus wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Pretty much. Cp is a crutch for people who can’t sustain and want to be tanky so they aren’t immediately punished for making mistakes.

I’m way over max cp and most of the other no cp players I know are as well, so that’s a non argument. Also cp players always complain about proc sets in non cp, but never give examples. The only proc set that’s commonly used is valkyn, and if that’s the only reason you’re dying, there’s probably l2p issues there.

Non-CP is by far worse in terms of balance. In non-CP you can wear full heavy and mow people down with Proc sets and DoTs. CP isn't perfectly balanced, but to suggest that Non-CP is better is pure ignorance.

Non cp is better. Also I think it's funny the dude you quoted is saying proc set whiners never give examples, and here you are doing just that.

frostz417

Durham wrote: »

Honestly none of this matters with the lag in Cyrodiil currently, and abismal performance of Gameplay. Like always you have guilds that open promote running 48 people running in ball creating a latency that is unbearable to play these guys continue to destroy PVP. They scream this is a AVAVA area your suppose to play this way. No its not the way your suppose to play its the way you choose to play because its the most effective due to the way healing works. Spreading out would be so much better gameplay but I understand this is a dead horse.

Populations will continue to fall because of the performance of this game. People still come into Vevic all the time and say "HOW DO YOU GUYS PLAY IN THIS" Its been years now its not going to be fixed. ZOS is aware of this lag and they cant fix it due to the fact they would have to change so much of coding of abilites and how they work. This would affect PVE and that is the true bread and butter of this game.

Well said

frostz417

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Pretty much. Cp is a crutch for people who can’t sustain and want to be tanky so they aren’t immediately punished for making mistakes.

I’m way over max cp and most of the other no cp players I know are as well, so that’s a non argument. Also cp players always complain about proc sets in non cp, but never give examples. The only proc set that’s commonly used is valkyn, and if that’s the only reason you’re dying, there’s probably l2p issues there.

Non-CP is by far worse in terms of balance. In non-CP you can wear full heavy and mow people down with Proc sets and DoTs. CP isn't perfectly balanced, but to suggest that Non-CP is better is pure ignorance.

Non cp is better. Also I think it's funny the dude you quoted is saying proc set whiners never give examples, and here you are doing just that.

Here’s how non CP is extreme unbalanced offensively.
Bleeds severely over perform especially since they go through resistances. That’s why you see Bg’s Littered with heavy armor builds running vdsa axes and proc sets such as viper
Not to mention there’s an absurd amount of mag characters that run straight cheese like zaan, caluurions legacy, etc.
And my personal favorite is the 30k+ werewolves that literally just dot you down while running things like viper or sloads.
Proc sets, siege, and dot builds severely overperform in non-cp since there’s so little ways to mitigate such damage. Cp has defensive imbalance while non-cp has offensive imbalance.
You want your example? Play BG’s, nothing but cancer proc sets, dots, pet sorcs hiding in their personal zoo, and werewolf tanks that still somehow do damage even though they have 30k+ health. Bg’s is the golden standard of what is cancer and severely unbalanced.
So removing cp to balance PvP is realistically a terrible idea because there will still be multiple imbalances and since most people prefer cp, it will be detrimental.
Numbers don’t lie, if cp was more popular then you’d see Sotha Sil consistently pop locked but it’s not. The only platform where I hear sotha is even remotely popular is pc na, and vivec is still more popular, whereas every other platform it’s alqays vivec where everyone plays in.
Numbers don’t lie. Zos knows this therefore they won’t do anything as drastic as removing cp. the only thing that I can see happening is them just readjusting it to change it from percentages to flat bonuses. With maybe slight nerfs or buffs.

bigelle.x3_ESO

All I do is play bgs. Your claims are false or are a player skill issue. Viper seriously? Is this 2016?

Noctus

frostz417 wrote: »

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Pretty much. Cp is a crutch for people who can’t sustain and want to be tanky so they aren’t immediately punished for making mistakes.

I’m way over max cp and most of the other no cp players I know are as well, so that’s a non argument. Also cp players always complain about proc sets in non cp, but never give examples. The only proc set that’s commonly used is valkyn, and if that’s the only reason you’re dying, there’s probably l2p issues there.

Non-CP is by far worse in terms of balance. In non-CP you can wear full heavy and mow people down with Proc sets and DoTs. CP isn't perfectly balanced, but to suggest that Non-CP is better is pure ignorance.

Non cp is better. Also I think it's funny the dude you quoted is saying proc set whiners never give examples, and here you are doing just that.

Here’s how non CP is extreme unbalanced offensively.
Bleeds severely over perform especially since they go through resistances. That’s why you see Bg’s Littered with heavy armor builds running vdsa axes and proc sets such as viper
Not to mention there’s an absurd amount of mag characters that run straight cheese like zaan, caluurions legacy, etc.
And my personal favorite is the 30k+ werewolves that literally just dot you down while running things like viper or sloads.
Proc sets, siege, and dot builds severely overperform in non-cp since there’s so little ways to mitigate such damage. Cp has defensive imbalance while non-cp has offensive imbalance.
You want your example? Play BG’s, nothing but cancer proc sets, dots, pet sorcs hiding in their personal zoo, and werewolf tanks that still somehow do damage even though they have 30k+ health. Bg’s is the golden standard of what is cancer and severely unbalanced.
So removing cp to balance PvP is realistically a terrible idea because there will still be multiple imbalances and since most people prefer cp, it will be detrimental.
Numbers don’t lie, if cp was more popular then you’d see Sotha Sil consistently pop locked but it’s not. The only platform where I hear sotha is even remotely popular is pc na, and vivec is still more popular, whereas every other platform it’s alqays vivec where everyone plays in.
Numbers don’t lie. Zos knows this therefore they won’t do anything as drastic as removing cp. the only thing that I can see happening is them just readjusting it to change it from percentages to flat bonuses. With maybe slight nerfs or buffs.

thats not true i dont use heavy armor yet ive reached numbers up to 80 kills to 0 deaths in bg. heavy armor meta is way worse in cp pvp. proc sets dont outperform other sets in bg. its BLASPHEMUS to think that. u need sustain in bg so running more than 1 procset is counterproductive. tell me isnt 7th legion not a procset (it procs with 10 % chance) ? yet everyone use it on cp pvp including myself.

there was only an outcry about this becouse of sloads beeing very effective....... nowadays in bg u wont see 1 person using it after 10 matches.

go watch some alcast videos ur uneducated on the matter. procsets are in line with other sets in nocp.

werewolf are far easier to deal with in no cp. idk how u can think the other way ur misinformed. i can take down a ww in a 1 vs 1 in bg without even using an ult even in under lvl 50 bg....... thats unimaginable in cp pvp becouse of their tankiness and healing.

cp pvp is more popular becouse bigger numbers matter there with the stronger heals and dmg mitigation u can lag out in big zergs the server and be very hard to kill in big groups. when im running a big clan ofc i go cp pvp for better success. cant have my zerg beeing decimated by good smallscale pvpers.

and if we are talking about bleed thats CP for u. mind thats the healing version too lol.


noone in their right mind plays lightarmor in CP pvp except sorcs.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438303/heavy-armor-bleed-builds-overperforming-in-pvp-cp

heavy armor bleed is rather a problem of cp pvp dont get confused. or maybe ur just trolling other ppl here.

many ppl in bg succeed by just playing their pve sets like "spell strategist". impen is still effective but a choice instead of a neccessety.

bigelle.x3_ESO

That's photoshopped right? Lmao I've been calling it inflated stats but that's clearly an understatement.

Waffennacht

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

That's photoshopped right? Lmao I've been calling it inflated stats but that's clearly an understatement.

Not necessarily. Think about it:. (let's round up) 40k divided by 9, let's say that's 4.4k per dmg tick - CP means.... that it's dealing about 30% more than no CP... (Meaning it's a 3k tick in BG)

So it's about 10% ish higher than the bleed builds I face

10% is not much at all (10% base)

In my BGs, a typical bleed build ticks me slightly above 2k per tick.

exeeter702

Baconlad wrote: »

No cp is kinda like...playing street fighter, any idiot can pick up the controller and learn to back himself into a corner and hold back and low kick. It's easy to figure out the broken mechanics and run with it.

CP is more like chess, any idiot can play a game of chess, but the game can last three moves, or thirty. The skill of your opponent and the skill of you matter more than who picked the better class.

i am at a complete loss of words with the shear amount of ignorance on display here. Street fighter is closer to chess than anything you have likely ever experienced in a video game interactive medium.

ATomiX96

No worries, balance is comming soon™
In the meanwhile you should try to spend some money on our new crown crates, they are only around for 3 months so dont miss out on wasting 200$ in the hope of getting a radiant apex mount
Have fun with the same gameplay for another year before we change 3 abilties again.

Girl_Number8

Bgs is not PvP, it is foreplay. You just need to learn 2 play, Cx. You keep wanting to take away more available options from the game. That in itself makes you the issue, not cp. You spout on and on about non-Cp bgs and non-Cp PvP....so play those and shhhhhh.

I like all of the PvP types available but tbh we need more PvP content from Zos, not less. So be a good little causal and stay to your non-Cp bgs and non-Cp PvP and stop trying to take away more PvP content from players that actually enjoy playing all the types of PvP that are available.

I wish Zos would just bring the Vet system back everytime I read a cryhards thread....

People want more not less. Simply put, you are not forced to play in Cp PvP Cyro, so your point is moot. Solved your problem unhappy one, just play the part of ESO that you like.

Waffennacht

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Bgs is not PvP, it is foreplay. You just need to learn 2 play, Cx. You keep wanting to take away more available options from the game. That in itself makes you the issue, not cp. You spout on and on about non-Cp bgs and non-Cp PvP....so play those and shhhhhh.

I like all of the PvP types available but tbh we need more PvP content from Zos, not less. So be a good little causal and stay to your non-Cp bgs and non-Cp PvP and stop trying to take away more PvP content from players that actually enjoy playing all the types of PvP that are available.

I wish Zos would just bring the Vet system back everytime I read a cryhards thread....

People want more not less. Simply put, you are not forced to play in Cp PvP Cyro, so your point is moot. Solved your problem unhappy one, just play the part of ESO that you like.

BG is most certainly PvP. The rest you said is fine imo; but I'll take the actually action filled BG over the 1 hour it takes to actually find a decent 20 minutes worth of action that is Cyrodiil

crazywolfpusher

Noctus wrote: »

Is this real life?

mursie

There are 2 forms of pvp in ESO: structured PVP (BG's) and open world (Cyrodill)

CP in BG's was a complete failure. Proof was given by ZOS removing it from BG's. it was unbalanced for players not at CP cap (they were getting farmed due to statistical disadvantages) and it was a snoozefest boredom with 10 minutes of stalemate action when CP capped players faced each other. It was abandoned immediately and that single point is 100% proof it is bad for pvp.

We see in GW2 this same mindset on structured pvp vs. open world. You're free to wear whatever in open world GW2 (which is extremely popular) and structured pvp is balanced to same sets and stats for all to use and wear. structured pvp is not nearly as popular on GW2 as open world is. the same mindset we find here on ESO.

And this begs the question - Why is open world PVP so extremely popular despite it's imbalance?
We know it isn't balanced. structured pvp without inflated stats is designed with balance in mind. But the masses do not flock there. Why?

The answer is a cognitive dissonance by the individual away from a need to L2p and a requirement for Crutches as a result of that dissonance to perform adequately in pvp.

As with any bell curve, most players are average to below average. Only a few are elite. Since the masses are not the elite, they are in general not good and die easily to many many encounters of pvp. To avoid this continual dose of failure, the masses gravitate towards the one strategy that affords them the best opportunity to not be a failure.

Zerging.

Ah, good ole zerging. see, by sticking with numbers the inadequacies of the individual are carried by the quantity of crutches in the group. One doesn't need skill to kill another player, if one simply brings 20 other players with him to kill that one player. This is where we first are introduced to the popularity of open world. It allows for zerging. structured pvp does not. The inadequacies of the individual are much more on display in a small scale setting than an open world zerg.

But wait, there's more. You see, even in open world, bad players can be plucked from the pack by good players if 1 shot mechanics are present. While ZOS continues to nerf bat pretty much every and all 1 shot mechanics, the reality is that in no-cp you can come much closer to 1 shot territory than you can in CP. simply due to less stats and more concern over resource control. And here is why open world CP pvp is so extremely popular. It gives the two primary things bad players need.

1. the ability to zerg and cover up all inadequacies with sheer quantity
2. it removes the ability to immediately get destroyed by another player due to the inflated stat pools and defensive enhancements present in the crutch point campaign.

A literal safe-haven for the masses, it is no surprise that this is where the masses will gravitate towards. A prominent structured pvp'er already said it best: @thogard likened structured pvp to the NCAA tourney or super bowl. 1 shot or you're out. Meanwhile, CP pvp is like the world series. buckle up for a 7 game snoozefest becuase even if you suck balls, you'll still have time and resources to recover.

There is zero doubt that CP is nothing more than crutch points for the masses. To buy them the time and lend them the crutch they need to cover up their pvp inadequacies. inadequacies that include positioning awareness, resource management and control, target identification and selection, and pvp combat execution.

There is also zero doubt as to why the masses prefer this crutch point system. Because the masses, by definition, are not the elite. They are average to below average. They fail. routinely. over and over again. This is not something people like to come to grips with. Hell, kids today get participation awards to compensate and overshadow their inadequacies. And you wonder why they don't want to get hit in the face repeatedly in structured pvp with the knowledge and proof that they are infact not elite? There is no wonder. it is obvious.

ps - for the record, i'm in the average to below average category. But i'm also not a millennial. *** wasn't handed to me on a silver platter and i sure as hell wasn't told i was good or given participation awards when the results were infact dead last. Failure was just that - failure. But it was also THE primary motivator to get back up and go again. so that one day - maybe you'd fail a little less and eventually enjoy some success. That was the prize in itself.

kids today - pfft. you can call your crutch points whatever you want. frankly IDGAF. the transparency of your inadequacies are still obvious, no matter how much smoke and mirrors you'd like to try and throw up as defenses for your crutches.

Qbiken

mursie wrote: »

There are 2 forms of pvp in ESO: structured PVP (BG's) and open world (Cyrodill)

CP in BG's was a complete failure. Proof was given by ZOS removing it from BG's. it was unbalanced for players not at CP cap (they were getting farmed due to statistical disadvantages) and it was a snoozefest boredom with 10 minutes of stalemate action when CP capped players faced each other. It was abandoned immediately and that single point is 100% proof it is bad for pvp.

We see in GW2 this same mindset on structured pvp vs. open world. You're free to wear whatever in open world GW2 (which is extremely popular) and structured pvp is balanced to same sets and stats for all to use and wear. structured pvp is not nearly as popular on GW2 as open world is. the same mindset we find here on ESO.

And this begs the question - Why is open world PVP so extremely popular despite it's imbalance?
We know it isn't balanced. structured pvp without inflated stats is designed with balance in mind. But the masses do not flock there. Why?

The answer is a cognitive dissonance by the individual away from a need to L2p and a requirement for Crutches as a result of that dissonance to perform adequately in pvp.

As with any bell curve, most players are average to below average. Only a few are elite. Since the masses are not the elite, they are in general not good and die easily to many many encounters of pvp. To avoid this continual dose of failure, the masses gravitate towards the one strategy that affords them the best opportunity to not be a failure.

Zerging.

Ah, good ole zerging. see, by sticking with numbers the inadequacies of the individual are carried by the quantity of crutches in the group. One doesn't need skill to kill another player, if one simply brings 20 other players with him to kill that one player. This is where we first are introduced to the popularity of open world. It allows for zerging. structured pvp does not. The inadequacies of the individual are much more on display in a small scale setting than an open world zerg.

But wait, there's more. You see, even in open world, bad players can be plucked from the pack by good players if 1 shot mechanics are present. While ZOS continues to nerf bat pretty much every and all 1 shot mechanics, the reality is that in no-cp you can come much closer to 1 shot territory than you can in CP. simply due to less stats and more concern over resource control. And here is why open world CP pvp is so extremely popular. It gives the two primary things bad players need.

1. the ability to zerg and cover up all inadequacies with sheer quantity
2. it removes the ability to immediately get destroyed by another player due to the inflated stat pools and defensive enhancements present in the crutch point campaign.

A literal safe-haven for the masses, it is no surprise that this is where the masses will gravitate towards. A prominent structured pvp'er already said it best: @thogard likened structured pvp to the NCAA tourney or super bowl. 1 shot or you're out. Meanwhile, CP pvp is like the world series. buckle up for a 7 game snoozefest becuase even if you suck balls, you'll still have time and resources to recover.

There is zero doubt that CP is nothing more than crutch points for the masses. To buy them the time and lend them the crutch they need to cover up their pvp inadequacies. inadequacies that include positioning awareness, resource management and control, target identification and selection, and pvp combat execution.

There is also zero doubt as to why the masses prefer this crutch point system. Because the masses, by definition, are not the elite. They are average to below average. They fail. routinely. over and over again. This is not something people like to come to grips with. Hell, kids today get participation awards to compensate and overshadow their inadequacies. And you wonder why they don't want to get hit in the face repeatedly in structured pvp with the knowledge and proof that they are infact not elite? There is no wonder. it is obvious.

ps - for the record, i'm in the average to below average category. But i'm also not a millennial. *** wasn't handed to me on a silver platter and i sure as hell wasn't told i was good or given participation awards when the results were infact dead last. Failure was just that - failure. But it was also THE primary motivator to get back up and go again. so that one day - maybe you'd fail a little less and eventually enjoy some success. That was the prize in itself.

kids today - pfft. you can call your crutch points whatever you want. frankly IDGAF. the transparency of your inadequacies are still obvious, no matter how much smoke and mirrors you'd like to try and throw up as defenses for your crutches.

Imagine taking a game this serious......

ATomiX96

Qbiken wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

There are 2 forms of pvp in ESO: structured PVP (BG's) and open world (Cyrodill)

CP in BG's was a complete failure. Proof was given by ZOS removing it from BG's. it was unbalanced for players not at CP cap (they were getting farmed due to statistical disadvantages) and it was a snoozefest boredom with 10 minutes of stalemate action when CP capped players faced each other. It was abandoned immediately and that single point is 100% proof it is bad for pvp.

We see in GW2 this same mindset on structured pvp vs. open world. You're free to wear whatever in open world GW2 (which is extremely popular) and structured pvp is balanced to same sets and stats for all to use and wear. structured pvp is not nearly as popular on GW2 as open world is. the same mindset we find here on ESO.

And this begs the question - Why is open world PVP so extremely popular despite it's imbalance?
We know it isn't balanced. structured pvp without inflated stats is designed with balance in mind. But the masses do not flock there. Why?

The answer is a cognitive dissonance by the individual away from a need to L2p and a requirement for Crutches as a result of that dissonance to perform adequately in pvp.

As with any bell curve, most players are average to below average. Only a few are elite. Since the masses are not the elite, they are in general not good and die easily to many many encounters of pvp. To avoid this continual dose of failure, the masses gravitate towards the one strategy that affords them the best opportunity to not be a failure.

Zerging.

Ah, good ole zerging. see, by sticking with numbers the inadequacies of the individual are carried by the quantity of crutches in the group. One doesn't need skill to kill another player, if one simply brings 20 other players with him to kill that one player. This is where we first are introduced to the popularity of open world. It allows for zerging. structured pvp does not. The inadequacies of the individual are much more on display in a small scale setting than an open world zerg.

But wait, there's more. You see, even in open world, bad players can be plucked from the pack by good players if 1 shot mechanics are present. While ZOS continues to nerf bat pretty much every and all 1 shot mechanics, the reality is that in no-cp you can come much closer to 1 shot territory than you can in CP. simply due to less stats and more concern over resource control. And here is why open world CP pvp is so extremely popular. It gives the two primary things bad players need.

1. the ability to zerg and cover up all inadequacies with sheer quantity
2. it removes the ability to immediately get destroyed by another player due to the inflated stat pools and defensive enhancements present in the crutch point campaign.

A literal safe-haven for the masses, it is no surprise that this is where the masses will gravitate towards. A prominent structured pvp'er already said it best: @thogard likened structured pvp to the NCAA tourney or super bowl. 1 shot or you're out. Meanwhile, CP pvp is like the world series. buckle up for a 7 game snoozefest becuase even if you suck balls, you'll still have time and resources to recover.

There is zero doubt that CP is nothing more than crutch points for the masses. To buy them the time and lend them the crutch they need to cover up their pvp inadequacies. inadequacies that include positioning awareness, resource management and control, target identification and selection, and pvp combat execution.

There is also zero doubt as to why the masses prefer this crutch point system. Because the masses, by definition, are not the elite. They are average to below average. They fail. routinely. over and over again. This is not something people like to come to grips with. Hell, kids today get participation awards to compensate and overshadow their inadequacies. And you wonder why they don't want to get hit in the face repeatedly in structured pvp with the knowledge and proof that they are infact not elite? There is no wonder. it is obvious.

ps - for the record, i'm in the average to below average category. But i'm also not a millennial. *** wasn't handed to me on a silver platter and i sure as hell wasn't told i was good or given participation awards when the results were infact dead last. Failure was just that - failure. But it was also THE primary motivator to get back up and go again. so that one day - maybe you'd fail a little less and eventually enjoy some success. That was the prize in itself.

kids today - pfft. you can call your crutch points whatever you want. frankly IDGAF. the transparency of your inadequacies are still obvious, no matter how much smoke and mirrors you'd like to try and throw up as defenses for your crutches.

Imagine taking a game this serious......

imagine still playing eso for its pvp in 2019, lmao af

Waffennacht

Qbiken wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

There are 2 forms of pvp in ESO: structured PVP (BG's) and open world (Cyrodill)

CP in BG's was a complete failure. Proof was given by ZOS removing it from BG's. it was unbalanced for players not at CP cap (they were getting farmed due to statistical disadvantages) and it was a snoozefest boredom with 10 minutes of stalemate action when CP capped players faced each other. It was abandoned immediately and that single point is 100% proof it is bad for pvp.

We see in GW2 this same mindset on structured pvp vs. open world. You're free to wear whatever in open world GW2 (which is extremely popular) and structured pvp is balanced to same sets and stats for all to use and wear. structured pvp is not nearly as popular on GW2 as open world is. the same mindset we find here on ESO.

And this begs the question - Why is open world PVP so extremely popular despite it's imbalance?
We know it isn't balanced. structured pvp without inflated stats is designed with balance in mind. But the masses do not flock there. Why?

The answer is a cognitive dissonance by the individual away from a need to L2p and a requirement for Crutches as a result of that dissonance to perform adequately in pvp.

As with any bell curve, most players are average to below average. Only a few are elite. Since the masses are not the elite, they are in general not good and die easily to many many encounters of pvp. To avoid this continual dose of failure, the masses gravitate towards the one strategy that affords them the best opportunity to not be a failure.

Zerging.

Ah, good ole zerging. see, by sticking with numbers the inadequacies of the individual are carried by the quantity of crutches in the group. One doesn't need skill to kill another player, if one simply brings 20 other players with him to kill that one player. This is where we first are introduced to the popularity of open world. It allows for zerging. structured pvp does not. The inadequacies of the individual are much more on display in a small scale setting than an open world zerg.

But wait, there's more. You see, even in open world, bad players can be plucked from the pack by good players if 1 shot mechanics are present. While ZOS continues to nerf bat pretty much every and all 1 shot mechanics, the reality is that in no-cp you can come much closer to 1 shot territory than you can in CP. simply due to less stats and more concern over resource control. And here is why open world CP pvp is so extremely popular. It gives the two primary things bad players need.

1. the ability to zerg and cover up all inadequacies with sheer quantity
2. it removes the ability to immediately get destroyed by another player due to the inflated stat pools and defensive enhancements present in the crutch point campaign.

A literal safe-haven for the masses, it is no surprise that this is where the masses will gravitate towards. A prominent structured pvp'er already said it best: @thogard likened structured pvp to the NCAA tourney or super bowl. 1 shot or you're out. Meanwhile, CP pvp is like the world series. buckle up for a 7 game snoozefest becuase even if you suck balls, you'll still have time and resources to recover.

There is zero doubt that CP is nothing more than crutch points for the masses. To buy them the time and lend them the crutch they need to cover up their pvp inadequacies. inadequacies that include positioning awareness, resource management and control, target identification and selection, and pvp combat execution.

There is also zero doubt as to why the masses prefer this crutch point system. Because the masses, by definition, are not the elite. They are average to below average. They fail. routinely. over and over again. This is not something people like to come to grips with. Hell, kids today get participation awards to compensate and overshadow their inadequacies. And you wonder why they don't want to get hit in the face repeatedly in structured pvp with the knowledge and proof that they are infact not elite? There is no wonder. it is obvious.

ps - for the record, i'm in the average to below average category. But i'm also not a millennial. *** wasn't handed to me on a silver platter and i sure as hell wasn't told i was good or given participation awards when the results were infact dead last. Failure was just that - failure. But it was also THE primary motivator to get back up and go again. so that one day - maybe you'd fail a little less and eventually enjoy some success. That was the prize in itself.

kids today - pfft. you can call your crutch points whatever you want. frankly IDGAF. the transparency of your inadequacies are still obvious, no matter how much smoke and mirrors you'd like to try and throw up as defenses for your crutches.

Imagine taking a game this serious......

Go big or go home!

Some players (such as myself) see little to no fun without high level competition. I find his post to echo my sentiments pretty well