if u want balance dont look at cp pvp

RighteousBacon

Emma_Overload wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

Oof

The person you quoted can not refute the logic of my argument, therefore he resorts to tacky ad hominem attacks.

Oof, indeed!

Lol, dude you’re talking about one of the best players on Xbox NA. You need to rethink your position

Cadbury

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

Oof

The person you quoted can not refute the logic of my argument, therefore he resorts to tacky ad hominem attacks.

Oof, indeed!

Lol, dude you’re talking about one of the best players on Xbox NA. You need to rethink your position

Wait, Frostz417 is one of the best players on Xbox? Noice.

RighteousBacon

Cadbury wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

Oof

The person you quoted can not refute the logic of my argument, therefore he resorts to tacky ad hominem attacks.

Oof, indeed!

Lol, dude you’re talking about one of the best players on Xbox NA. You need to rethink your position

Wait, Frostz417 is one of the best players on Xbox? Noice.

I meant Liam. Don’t know frostz

Thogard

IMO

No CP had a higher emphasis on positioning and “getting the jump” on your opponent.

In CP the fights tend to last longer. This gives more time for skillful “rotations” to shine. But the fight won’t be as likely to hinge on whether or not a single ult was tap blocked.

In other words, No CP is like the super bowl - a single game determines the winner.
CP is like the World Series - there is more time for the superior strategist to shine through, but clutch plays aren’t as big of a deal since you can’t win a fight in just one turnover, you gotta win the series

They are both very challenging. No CP just places a greater emphasis on positioning - because it’s so hard to flip a fight, starting a fight when it’s to your advantage is FAR more important than in CP.

React

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

I know the video you are talking about. I was leaving a keep and saw a fight going on and decided to jump in for fun. I had no idea who was fighting and didn't care, and I sure as heck wasn't grouped or on comms with any other players. While it's true that I died in the initial encounter, it's ALSO true that I killed Pelican on my way out of the keep the second time. Of course, Pelican edited the video to only show his kills, not his deaths. If you are unaware that it is common practice for streamers/youtubers to selectively edit their videos, it is YOU who are obviously inexperienced in PvP!

I think it's kind of ridiculous and even a little creepy that people on the forums like yourself carry grudges against other players to the extent that you are scanning youtube videos for talking points. Lame.

Theres no grudge. To be honest, I generally dont bother commenting on threads that you're in because there really is no point in arguing with someone who has no idea what they're talking about, but at the same time is so dead set in their stubbornness that they refuse to acknowledge other's perspectives. You say I couldnt argue with your logic, but the fact is your points are illogical and inaccurate.

You've shown your bias far too many times on these forums to be taken seriously.

Anyhow, this thread has been sufficiently derailed so I'll be moving on.

frostz417

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

Oof

The person you quoted can not refute the logic of my argument, therefore he resorts to tacky ad hominem attacks.

Oof, indeed!

Lol, dude you’re talking about one of the best players on Xbox NA. You need to rethink your position

Best Xbox player NA? I agree. He is one of the if not THE best. His clips speak for themselves. I’ve never seen someone 1vX so effectively on so many classes like him.
Also you don’t know me? I’m sure I’ve ran into you quite frequently in cyrodiil bacon... assuming your Gt is the exact same name as your forum name....

Koensol

Emma_Overload wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

Oof

The person you quoted can not refute the logic of my argument, therefore he resorts to tacky ad hominem attacks.

Oof, indeed!

There is nothing to refute, because there is no logic in your posts.

Ooff...

Noctus

Datolite wrote: »

Those who think noCP is like "Street Fighter" and takes no skill obviously never spent much time in competitive BGs. It is the same amount of skill if not more, because of the lack of room for error. And if you are comparing CP to chess you are right about one thing... it can take damn near forever. Because there is barely any risk and the only way a skilled player would lose an even fight is straight up out of boredom.

If you like fast paced combat without crutching on endless resistances and less emphasis on resource death then join noCP. If you prefer killing time over killing players, Vivec is over yonder. --->

isnt it a good thing that they compare nocp combat to one of the most skillfull genres lol. would have prefered tekken over streetfighter tho.

Emma_Overload

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

Oof

The person you quoted can not refute the logic of my argument, therefore he resorts to tacky ad hominem attacks.

Oof, indeed!

Lol, dude you’re talking about one of the best players on Xbox NA. You need to rethink your position

I don't play on consoles, and I've never heard of him. It doesn't change the fact that he can't refute my argument with anything but an insult.

The fact is that NOT ONE PERSON has offered a logical argument as to why we can't have both CP and No-CP Battlegrounds.

zParallaxz

Baconlad wrote: »

New inexperienced players tend to favor no cp...even at 810, those who dont care to learn other classes mechanics, who just want to build for glass and one two punch everything they look at...typically stam but there are some mag players who like no cp.

No cp favors stamina and certain mag specs. No cp encourages builds that capitalize on lost defense, which in turn encourages blind rage playing, not countering abilities just keeping up that vigor and may the more offense win.

CP encourages you to fight for a bit. To figure out ur enemies slotted skills, knowing what they do. Knowing when you have to counter and what support non damaging skills you have to use next.

No cp is kinda like...playing street fighter, any idiot can pick up the controller and learn to back himself into a corner and hold back and low kick. It's easy to figure out the broken mechanics and run with it.

CP is more like chess, any idiot can play a game of chess, but the game can last three moves, or thirty. The skill of your opponent and the skill of you matter more than who picked the better class.

I think it would be far more beneficial to the game to take away CP in general, across the board. But they need to give us lost stat. This game was not designed to be played without much of the stat they took away from us when CP was launched. They took regen, crit, crit damage, resists, and nerfed base damages quite a bit. I dont like the system they have in place right now I will say...but I'll take a longer fight I have to bow out from any day to a fight that's over before I can barswap.

PS-you must not play stamplar or magplar in ur NOCP endeavors...do you?

I agree with everything you said, CP can be directly compared to chess. Some people are cannon fodder and depending on your build, won’t last 10 seconds by themselves. Other players are knowledgeable about their class and other classes enough to a point where attempting to fight this individual twill last several minutes.

Noctus

zParallaxz wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

New inexperienced players tend to favor no cp...even at 810, those who dont care to learn other classes mechanics, who just want to build for glass and one two punch everything they look at...typically stam but there are some mag players who like no cp.

No cp favors stamina and certain mag specs. No cp encourages builds that capitalize on lost defense, which in turn encourages blind rage playing, not countering abilities just keeping up that vigor and may the more offense win.

CP encourages you to fight for a bit. To figure out ur enemies slotted skills, knowing what they do. Knowing when you have to counter and what support non damaging skills you have to use next.

No cp is kinda like...playing street fighter, any idiot can pick up the controller and learn to back himself into a corner and hold back and low kick. It's easy to figure out the broken mechanics and run with it.

CP is more like chess, any idiot can play a game of chess, but the game can last three moves, or thirty. The skill of your opponent and the skill of you matter more than who picked the better class.

I think it would be far more beneficial to the game to take away CP in general, across the board. But they need to give us lost stat. This game was not designed to be played without much of the stat they took away from us when CP was launched. They took regen, crit, crit damage, resists, and nerfed base damages quite a bit. I dont like the system they have in place right now I will say...but I'll take a longer fight I have to bow out from any day to a fight that's over before I can barswap.

PS-you must not play stamplar or magplar in ur NOCP endeavors...do you?

I agree with everything you said, CP can be directly compared to chess. Some people are cannon fodder and depending on your build, won’t last 10 seconds by themselves. Other players are knowledgeable about their class and other classes enough to a point where attempting to fight this individual twill last several minutes.

no u get it wrong just copy and paste the build and u are as unkillable. there is no skill behind it. just becouse some ppl in cp pvp refuse to follow the meta doesnt mean they are bad. just means they are idiots or just lazy for not doing so.
they are fuelling the egos of those that get here in the forum and defend cp pvp becouse they get to taste victory only on that fields.

where in no cp u can even make full divine gear work depending on ur own individual skill

Urvoth

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

As someone with 6k+ hours in PVP, 90% solo... No cp is the best format for PVP. The past week was a great insight into this for us console players, as our 30 day no cp campaign literally NEVER has a bar of population in it. The past week during the questing event, we saw that campaign get 7-9 bars of population multiple times, and players like myself took advantage of this to get some enjoyable open world NO CP pvp.

The game doesn't lag in NO CP like it does in CP. You could be fighting in a keep with 100 people split between two alliances and you'll still be able to use abilities in NO CP, whereas in CP there's literally no point in fighting within render distance of that same keep.

People actually die in NO CP. Cp is so ridiculously out of control now it's a joke. You have healers and tanks with no skill whatsoever pointing 100 points into blessed and 100 points into elfborn, who can legitimately sit there and crouch up and down, pressing 1 ability every 5 seconds, basically laughing at you as you put a 100% flawless rotation on them from your pure damage build without ever getting close to killing them. You take those same players into no CP and they can actually be killed because they don't have the sustain or mitigation to sit there endlessly tanking or outhealing your damage. At the same time, it becomes harder but more rewarding to play a damage build as you generally must be in medium/light armor running damage sets to be effective.

Some argue that CP is imbalanced because "proc sets and poisons overperform there". Those are outlier points. Proc sets and poisons DO overperform in NOCP, but not anywhere near how much healing and mitigation overperform in CP.

ZOS really needs to take steps towards introducing NO CP into PVP, such as removing the second CP Campaign on console so that players must enter a no-cp campaign if they don't want to be in the main 30 day CP camp. I've found that most players truly do enjoy no cp more once they've been exposed to it, they just don't have any opportunities for open world NO CP outside of events because of the lack of pop on console.

No-CP is not the answer to the problems you describe. For one thing, PvE mobs are balanced against CP, so doing anything in mixed PvP/PvE zones like the Imperial City is a nightmarish chore without CP. The correct approach is to address each PvP issue (healing, mitigation, resource recovery, etc) one by one with a balanced solution that takes CP into account. Intelligent adjustments to Battle Spirit and various overpowered set bonuses and weapon/class abilities are probably all that is required. ZOS simply does not prioritize balancing old content, which is a big problem, because PvP is OLD content.

The first point you made here is not only irrelevant, but also not accurate. I farm tel var on a pvp setup in no cp, and can solo all the bosses in IC with ease.

I'm speaking from experience when I say that no cp is the answer to everything I described. I've put the time into both and the difference now with 810cp is so astronomical that the two aren't even comparable. Ultimately there is no need for cp in pvp, as it is both a massive detriment to game balance and a barrier to entry for newer players. It negates the need to make trade offs and compromises when building your character.

I completley disagree that "outlier sets and abilities" are the solution to a balance issue that is obviously the product of CP.

No offence, but you're just wrong. No-CP modes for Battlegrounds, Cyrodiil etc. is like going to Home Depot and buying a new AC window unit for every room in your house just because your central AC unit broke, when what you should have done is just called a professional HVAC guy to fix it. No-CP is just a short-sighted hack that deflects responsibility from the developers to fix their broken game.

No-CP only mode for Battlegrounds is an abomination because it steals progression from the player, without giving the player any CHOICE about it. I don't care if No-CP is "better", it's just wrong in principle. I would rather the CP system just be removed entirely and replaced with something else than have this inconsistent, patchwork of different game modes that we have today. At the very least, BOTH CP and No-CP modes should always be an option for the individual player, and that includes Battlegrounds.

So you’re complaining that non cp steals away your character progression in a PvP game mode??? Lul this isn’t the RP forum section. Balance and gameplay quality are way more important than “character progression” in a PvP mode.

Urvoth

Xvorg wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Here we go again. Uncapped cp kid is hurt because he got smashed in a cp campaign

Or the OP really does think crutching on 3 proc sets is far superior and very well balanced.

... except the GOOD no-CP PVPers tend to run stat-based sets. We laugh at and mock people who rely on multi proc set cheese to get kills.

Anyway, I agree with the OP, but CP fans whose builds would not be nearly as broken in no-CP would cry very hard if their crutch were disabled.

P. S. I have well over 1000 CP and have been playing this game for years, in case anyone feels the need to question me for preferring no-CP.

Yeah who runs 3 proc sets for real? Your survivability/sustain would be terrible.

But the sets will do all the dmg you need in one LA/HA. Sunderflame + Way of Fire do nasty dmg when both proc. Pair them with Pierce armor and a dmg monster set and you can just forget about some dmg skills, Just make sure stam is up for vigor/dodge rolling/bocking. And both sets have some pretty decent stamina bonuses.

Yeah, you could run that but you’d be far more effective with more stat based sets, which is why you don’t see many people running multiple proc sets.

zParallaxz

Waffennacht wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

No-CP is very favorable to builds that use Cloak, Roll Dodge or Oblivion Damage, because these powerful mechanics are just as strong in No-CP as in CP. I would not be surprised if OP depended on at least 2 of these 3 mechanics for his "skill".

No-CP also happens to be very UNfavorable to builds that use mechanics like Damage Shields which depend on both CP stars AND the CP boosts to base attributes like Magicka and Health. Playing Magicka Sorc, for example, in a No-CP environment is severely degraded compared to roly-poly Stam builds and cloaking Nightblades whose defenses are are still 100% effective.

I can roll dodge way more in CP

But I agree with the rest

It's however ZoS fault for making Shields require CP to maintain effectiveness (I agree with you)

But I prefer no CP (not as my mag sorc) and have 1100 CP+

I’ve played every class solely for at least 3 months ea

frostz417 wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

How many CP do you have?

...And yeah, I noticed OP didn't answer my question. Easily half the complaints I see about CP come from people who are too lazy to grind them out like the rest of us did.

Well said!

ur ingame name and server ?

Xbox NA and my Name is the exact same as my forum name lmao

Give him the build bro lol

RighteousBacon

frostz417 wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

Oof

The person you quoted can not refute the logic of my argument, therefore he resorts to tacky ad hominem attacks.

Oof, indeed!

Lol, dude you’re talking about one of the best players on Xbox NA. You need to rethink your position

Best Xbox player NA? I agree. He is one of the if not THE best. His clips speak for themselves. I’ve never seen someone 1vX so effectively on so many classes like him.
Also you don’t know me? I’m sure I’ve ran into you quite frequently in cyrodiil bacon... assuming your Gt is the exact same name as your forum name....

Wait a minute, I think I do know you. I think you clapped me a few months ago ngl. If you’re the frost I’m thinking of you are also a great player. But yah I agree, React Faster is IMO the best stamina player on Xbox NA

RighteousBacon

Emma_Overload wrote: »

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Emma_Overload come on, CP BGs just didn't work. There were monsterous amounts of threads about how unenjoyable it was

That's why I support the existence of No-CP instances for those players who prefer them. All I want in return is a CP option for players like myself who prefer CP.

Fears of splitting the BG population are not valid. If players really think No-CP is that great, then you guys have nothing to worry about, because hardly anyone will switch to CP. If, in fact, a significant portion of players DO prefer CP, then why isn't it an option?

My sneaking suspicion is that there is a subset of the PvP population whose builds and/or play styles are optimal in a No-CP environment. I believe these players have been very vocal on the forums about making No-CP the only option because it is in their selfish interest to remove choices from other players.

This whole mess is the result of ZOS' bad decision to listen to emotion instead of reason. Now players like myself are either forced to ignore BGs or play them with bitter resentment and discontent. ZOS should just turn on the CP option for Battlegrounds and let the chips fall where they may.

Honestly, I cant take you seriously. Everytime you post something on these forums, it is clearly from a flagrantly bias perspective and often is not at all reflective of actual pvp experience. I don't think you actually have a strong understanding of the differences between cp and no cp, nor do I think you have the experience in both to comment on this.

Not to mention I watched pelican take you and 4 others down in one of his 1vx videos. At that point, it becomes very clear that you do not play pvp at a high level.

Oof

The person you quoted can not refute the logic of my argument, therefore he resorts to tacky ad hominem attacks.

Oof, indeed!

Lol, dude you’re talking about one of the best players on Xbox NA. You need to rethink your position

I don't play on consoles, and I've never heard of him. It doesn't change the fact that he can't refute my argument with anything but an insult.

The fact is that NOT ONE PERSON has offered a logical argument as to why we can't have both CP and No-CP Battlegrounds.

Alright look, we had CP battlegrounds for a while. The obvious problem arose that the tank ability of cp builds allowed players in hold control points far too effectively. Their was a lot of complaining on the forums about it. You would run into 4 mans made up almost entirely of tanks that just sat on the flags. Yes, you could kill them with a group if they were alone but they could just camp the other flags as you did that. That’s the main reason I think they don’t allow cp battlegrounds. A lot of people don’t want to deal with that. I’m sure it could be enjoyable at times but ZOS doesn’t want to split the BG community again

zParallaxz

Noctus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

As someone with 6k+ hours in PVP, 90% solo... No cp is the best format for PVP. The past week was a great insight into this for us console players, as our 30 day no cp campaign literally NEVER has a bar of population in it. The past week during the questing event, we saw that campaign get 7-9 bars of population multiple times, and players like myself took advantage of this to get some enjoyable open world NO CP pvp.

The game doesn't lag in NO CP like it does in CP. You could be fighting in a keep with 100 people split between two alliances and you'll still be able to use abilities in NO CP, whereas in CP there's literally no point in fighting within render distance of that same keep.

People actually die in NO CP. Cp is so ridiculously out of control now it's a joke. You have healers and tanks with no skill whatsoever pointing 100 points into blessed and 100 points into elfborn, who can legitimately sit there and crouch up and down, pressing 1 ability every 5 seconds, basically laughing at you as you put a 100% flawless rotation on them from your pure damage build without ever getting close to killing them. You take those same players into no CP and they can actually be killed because they don't have the sustain or mitigation to sit there endlessly tanking or outhealing your damage. At the same time, it becomes harder but more rewarding to play a damage build as you generally must be in medium/light armor running damage sets to be effective.

Some argue that CP is imbalanced because "proc sets and poisons overperform there". Those are outlier points. Proc sets and poisons DO overperform in NOCP, but not anywhere near how much healing and mitigation overperform in CP.

ZOS really needs to take steps towards introducing NO CP into PVP, such as removing the second CP Campaign on console so that players must enter a no-cp campaign if they don't want to be in the main 30 day CP camp. I've found that most players truly do enjoy no cp more once they've been exposed to it, they just don't have any opportunities for open world NO CP outside of events because of the lack of pop on console.

No-CP is not the answer to the problems you describe. For one thing, PvE mobs are balanced against CP, so doing anything in mixed PvP/PvE zones like the Imperial City is a nightmarish chore without CP. The correct approach is to address each PvP issue (healing, mitigation, resource recovery, etc) one by one with a balanced solution that takes CP into account. Intelligent adjustments to Battle Spirit and various overpowered set bonuses and weapon/class abilities are probably all that is required. ZOS simply does not prioritize balancing old content, which is a big problem, because PvP is OLD content.

thats rather l2p issue. i can solo the bosses in nocp imperial city with pvp loadout,(ofc it will take longer but i think they are ment to be killed in group are they not ?) i rly dislike how easy it gets with cp. as alcast stated cp makes things to easy and as i state cp is for the weak.

its like cheating in darksouls for unlimited stamina and calling urself skillfull lol. some players only managed to beat maelstrom arena on cp 810 and some players will only remain relevant in pvp while they have cp to rely on.

what kind of player u gotta be to defend cp in pvp ?

no cp for many reasons is just better and probably the most important one is that players which arent capped and play at their own pace can join it. pvp is allways suppose to be skill based and not based on ur grinding. see gw 2 approach on this.

Eh pvp is a mix of skill, grind ( whether it’s cp or gear), and rng.

frostz417

This idea may sound extremely radical and crazy. But an idea to fix the sheer defensive imbalance in cp is to... here me out.
Add health caps in cyrodiil. 30-35k. Therefore we don’t have people who have these unkillable absurd 40k+ health meme builds. Because tank Zergs in cp PvP are a major issue and I can completely understand why people dislike CP PvP... I’d hate it too if all I ever encountered was a bunch of 40k+ health tanks all balled up.

Waffennacht

@zParallaxz yeah I know you. It's me! But anyway, not too sure what to take away from your post lol. I just feel like dodge roll is more frequent in CP

@Emma_Overload there's no reason not to give players options, CP BGs and no CP BGs is an idea that can happen - however if I heard correctly CP will be overhauled, so such an idea would be depending on if that happens.


@Liam12548 I enjoy the encounters we've had and I respect your opinion, no reason to get to harsh though, no reason to bring anything personal.

The thing is, I personally consider all of the voices in this thread pretty weighty

NupidStoob

There are cheese builds in both and you can crutch on builds/classes in both. That's how ESO PvP is and has nothing to do with CP or no CP. If you do well in one, but bad in the other stop blaming cheese and instead learn to adapt. It's simply a different playstyle.


Between equally skilled players on the exact same spec:

No CP comes down to who is anticipating the other persons burst and set up their own burst better. A few mistakes usually end a fight right away or are impossible to recover from.

CP PvP is more about the long game. It all comes down to who sustains better and whittles down the other players resources.


Both require skill to be successful. Both can be cheesed. Chose which playstyle you prefer and go from there.

SippingPotions

Emma_Overload wrote: »

No-CP is very favorable to builds that use Cloak, Roll Dodge or Oblivion Damage, because these powerful mechanics are just as strong in No-CP as in CP. I would not be surprised if OP depended on at least 2 of these 3 mechanics for his "skill".

No-CP also happens to be very UNfavorable to builds that use mechanics like Damage Shields which depend on both CP stars AND the CP boosts to base attributes like Magicka and Health. Playing Magicka Sorc, for example, in a No-CP environment is severely degraded compared to roly-poly Stam builds and cloaking Nightblades whose defenses are are still 100% effective.

I couldn't help but laugh when I read this. I 1vX all the time in no CP on my mag sorc and compared to most other classes it's easy mode. I played enough no cp mag sorc to get Emperor in Sotha multiple times last campaign so I speak from experience. If anything's pet sorc's with the bird heal are over tuned at the moment, but that's an different topic for a different thread. We get it Emma. You hate NB's and warship Sorcs. But if you think mag sorc is somehow "degraded" in a non cp environment it's 100% L2P.

On a side note maybe you could stop spending so much energy on your crusade against NB's and instead start pushing for some of the long overdue stam sorc buff's and QoL improvements they need?

bigelle.x3_ESO

Cp ruins the game change my mind.

Also some of these cp defenders have some hilarious justifications for their broken system. "Non cp doesn't favor mag sorcs." Son have you ever played real pvp? "Non cp removes character progression." Is getting better at the game not progression, or is progression for you just inflated stats? "Non cp players are too lazy to grind cp" hitting max cp can easily take over 1000 hours. That's not laziness, just bad design.

RedGirl41

I mainly play vivec (cp) purely because my guild ap farms and we need big zergs to do it. Noncp is veeery low energy on ps4 NA. I agree it takes more to kill and survive buuuut if you’re using procsets to make up for the lack of cp then I’d rather just be In vivec. I’m talking about caluurions for 7k+ etc

But yeah pvp is insanely unbalanced. It’s a horrible idea to buff siege by 30% too. Not everyone plays a tank and it already wipes zergs 🤔

Emma_Overload

Also,

SippingPotions wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

No-CP is very favorable to builds that use Cloak, Roll Dodge or Oblivion Damage, because these powerful mechanics are just as strong in No-CP as in CP. I would not be surprised if OP depended on at least 2 of these 3 mechanics for his "skill".

No-CP also happens to be very UNfavorable to builds that use mechanics like Damage Shields which depend on both CP stars AND the CP boosts to base attributes like Magicka and Health. Playing Magicka Sorc, for example, in a No-CP environment is severely degraded compared to roly-poly Stam builds and cloaking Nightblades whose defenses are are still 100% effective.

I couldn't help but laugh when I read this. I 1vX all the time in no CP on my mag sorc and compared to most other classes it's easy mode. I played enough no cp mag sorc to get Emperor in Sotha multiple times last campaign so I speak from experience. If anything's pet sorc's with the bird heal are over tuned at the moment, but that's an different topic for a different thread. We get it Emma. You hate NB's and warship Sorcs. But if you think mag sorc is somehow "degraded" in a non cp environment it's 100% L2P.

On a side note maybe you could stop spending so much energy on your crusade against NB's and instead start pushing for some of the long overdue stam sorc buff's and QoL improvements they need?

If you're laughing, then I feel like I've succeeded! People are way too serious on the forums

Noctus

RedGirl41 wrote: »

I mainly play vivec (cp) purely because my guild ap farms and we need big zergs to do it. Noncp is veeery low energy on ps4 NA. I agree it takes more to kill and survive buuuut if you’re using procsets to make up for the lack of cp then I’d rather just be In vivec. I’m talking about caluurions for 7k+ etc

But yeah pvp is insanely unbalanced. It’s a horrible idea to buff siege by 30% too. Not everyone plays a tank and it already wipes zergs 🤔

go play bg and see how many ppl use it. its like spotting a unicorn these days. the only rly viable proc set which is better than others is sloads becouse of oblivion dmg and that thing is so easily evaded.

psychotic13

CP has ruined PvP, but its not just CP. it will never be as smooth and faced paced as it once was. Its very difficult to get kills in quick succession anymore (im talking decent players) unless maybe on a NB, which is about to change next patch.

Everyone is tanky as ***, even when you run full damage. Majority of people run between 25-30k health (remember when people would run less than 20k), major buffs are far to easy to obtain this is a real problem imo, my warden healer runs major mending, major vitality, major protection, major defile, major heroism, major ward, major resolve and major expedition, along with several minor buffs/debuffs.

Basically, heals shouldnt scale off of damage, you shouldnt be able to run 5k+ damage, and that gives you better heals than a healer, cause he has to run regen to some extent.

Haojin

problem with no-cp is; you can't easly counter push due to high resource usage of dodge roll, break free, block and sprint. fights are mostly one sided if you lose the pressure/cc game at the beginning.

mursie

Liam12548 wrote: »

As someone with 6k+ hours in PVP, 90% solo... No cp is the best format for PVP. The past week was a great insight into this for us console players, as our 30 day no cp campaign literally NEVER has a bar of population in it. The past week during the questing event, we saw that campaign get 7-9 bars of population multiple times, and players like myself took advantage of this to get some enjoyable open world NO CP pvp.

The game doesn't lag in NO CP like it does in CP. You could be fighting in a keep with 100 people split between two alliances and you'll still be able to use abilities in NO CP, whereas in CP there's literally no point in fighting within render distance of that same keep.

People actually die in NO CP. Cp is so ridiculously out of control now it's a joke. You have healers and tanks with no skill whatsoever pointing 100 points into blessed and 100 points into elfborn, who can legitimately sit there and crouch up and down, pressing 1 ability every 5 seconds, basically laughing at you as you put a 100% flawless rotation on them from your pure damage build without ever getting close to killing them. You take those same players into no CP and they can actually be killed because they don't have the sustain or mitigation to sit there endlessly tanking or outhealing your damage. At the same time, it becomes harder but more rewarding to play a damage build as you generally must be in medium/light armor running damage sets to be effective.

Some argue that CP is imbalanced because "proc sets and poisons overperform there". Those are outlier points. Proc sets and poisons DO overperform in NOCP, but not anywhere near how much healing and mitigation overperform in CP.

ZOS really needs to take steps towards introducing NO CP into PVP, such as removing the second CP Campaign on console so that players must enter a no-cp campaign if they don't want to be in the main 30 day CP camp. I've found that most players truly do enjoy no cp more once they've been exposed to it, they just don't have any opportunities for open world NO CP outside of events because of the lack of pop on console


The first point you made here is not only irrelevant, but also not accurate. I farm tel var on a pvp setup in no cp, and can solo all the bosses in IC with ease.

I'm speaking from experience when I say that no cp is the answer to everything I described. I've put the time into both and the difference now with 810cp is so astronomical that the two aren't even comparable. Ultimately there is no need for cp in pvp, as it is both a massive detriment to game balance and a barrier to entry for newer players. It negates the need to make trade offs and compromises when building your character.

I completley disagree that "outlier sets and abilities" are the solution to a balance issue that is obviously the product of CP.

There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life.

Waffennacht

mursie wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

As someone with 6k+ hours in PVP, 90% solo... No cp is the best format for PVP. The past week was a great insight into this for us console players, as our 30 day no cp campaign literally NEVER has a bar of population in it. The past week during the questing event, we saw that campaign get 7-9 bars of population multiple times, and players like myself took advantage of this to get some enjoyable open world NO CP pvp.

The game doesn't lag in NO CP like it does in CP. You could be fighting in a keep with 100 people split between two alliances and you'll still be able to use abilities in NO CP, whereas in CP there's literally no point in fighting within render distance of that same keep.

People actually die in NO CP. Cp is so ridiculously out of control now it's a joke. You have healers and tanks with no skill whatsoever pointing 100 points into blessed and 100 points into elfborn, who can legitimately sit there and crouch up and down, pressing 1 ability every 5 seconds, basically laughing at you as you put a 100% flawless rotation on them from your pure damage build without ever getting close to killing them. You take those same players into no CP and they can actually be killed because they don't have the sustain or mitigation to sit there endlessly tanking or outhealing your damage. At the same time, it becomes harder but more rewarding to play a damage build as you generally must be in medium/light armor running damage sets to be effective.

Some argue that CP is imbalanced because "proc sets and poisons overperform there". Those are outlier points. Proc sets and poisons DO overperform in NOCP, but not anywhere near how much healing and mitigation overperform in CP.

ZOS really needs to take steps towards introducing NO CP into PVP, such as removing the second CP Campaign on console so that players must enter a no-cp campaign if they don't want to be in the main 30 day CP camp. I've found that most players truly do enjoy no cp more once they've been exposed to it, they just don't have any opportunities for open world NO CP outside of events because of the lack of pop on console


The first point you made here is not only irrelevant, but also not accurate. I farm tel var on a pvp setup in no cp, and can solo all the bosses in IC with ease.

I'm speaking from experience when I say that no cp is the answer to everything I described. I've put the time into both and the difference now with 810cp is so astronomical that the two aren't even comparable. Ultimately there is no need for cp in pvp, as it is both a massive detriment to game balance and a barrier to entry for newer players. It negates the need to make trade offs and compromises when building your character.

I completley disagree that "outlier sets and abilities" are the solution to a balance issue that is obviously the product of CP.

There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life.

@#_& yeah!!!

Awesome!!!!!!

You're so awesome!!

GREAT MOVIE 👍

Goregrinder

Baconlad wrote: »

New inexperienced players tend to favor no cp...even at 810, those who dont care to learn other classes mechanics, who just want to build for glass and one two punch everything they look at...typically stam but there are some mag players who like no cp.

No cp favors stamina and certain mag specs. No cp encourages builds that capitalize on lost defense, which in turn encourages blind rage playing, not countering abilities just keeping up that vigor and may the more offense win.

CP encourages you to fight for a bit. To figure out ur enemies slotted skills, knowing what they do. Knowing when you have to counter and what support non damaging skills you have to use next.

No cp is kinda like...playing street fighter, any idiot can pick up the controller and learn to back himself into a corner and hold back and low kick. It's easy to figure out the broken mechanics and run with it.

CP is more like chess, any idiot can play a game of chess, but the game can last three moves, or thirty. The skill of your opponent and the skill of you matter more than who picked the better class.

I think it would be far more beneficial to the game to take away CP in general, across the board. But they need to give us lost stat. This game was not designed to be played without much of the stat they took away from us when CP was launched. They took regen, crit, crit damage, resists, and nerfed base damages quite a bit. I dont like the system they have in place right now I will say...but I'll take a longer fight I have to bow out from any day to a fight that's over before I can barswap.

PS-you must not play stamplar or magplar in ur NOCP endeavors...do you?

Meh I don't know. I used to love CP PVP, and never understood why anyone who ever enter a No-CP campaign. I also never tried BG's when they launched. Now though, I find that not having CP's to boost the individual's capabilities, you have to rely more in the rest of your Team for Success, I guess more so in BG's, where there are actual objectives.

I prefer this dynamic more now a days, instead of the "I Don't Need No Man, I'm A Strong Independent Breton Mag Sorc" builds that can really just 1vX everyone by themselves. I appreciate the skill it might take to wield certain builds in that fashion, but I have always been a proponent of bringing the player and not the class in any MMO that had serious PVP, and without CP's it really seems the weight of a player's individual skill is heavier here, as well as the ability for each group to cooperate effectively.