if u want balance dont look at cp pvp

Urvoth · May 2019

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Yes Noctus we all understand you are not able to kill people in cp pvp and that's fine, but i certainly never have problem to kill anyone in cp

im killing ppl in duells which are maxed with 810 cp with lvl 30 characters of mine doesnt mean they are bad. just means they dont have the neccessary build people like u dont dare to set foot to bg becouse u know u cant cheese ur way out.

pretty sure u know very well tho on those special 1 vs x builds noone wins in a fight. it can be drawn out eternaly there is no end to it either way u get bored and give up or u die of old age.

I play bg's regulary and have no problem with it. Also the most cheese is in no cp and everyone knows that. I am sure you people are trolling here or if not i can't take you serious

like what for example ?

Proc sets are rampant in no cp, bleeds, unbalanced offensive in general. I still enjoy no cp though. I would be for cp removal if they would return us the stats in no cp that they took away at least for starters.

i knew u come up with that crap. which *** procset u see these days in BG im EU PC noone uses sloads or anything like that on high mmr atleast. which procsets btw (stat proc, heal proc, shield proc, dmg proc).
isnt seventh legion health and stat proc and overused in cp pvp ?

procsets my ass this is me using julianos and spellstrategist. which is not even good combo considering the resource management lucky for me i had a good healer.
https://imgur.com/a/NpK6f6Y

here i post what have been posted again in this thread. this is cp for u.

Never had problems with bleeds in cp campaing

Never had a problem with bleeds in non cp

Noctus · May 2019

Urvoth wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Yes Noctus we all understand you are not able to kill people in cp pvp and that's fine, but i certainly never have problem to kill anyone in cp

im killing ppl in duells which are maxed with 810 cp with lvl 30 characters of mine doesnt mean they are bad. just means they dont have the neccessary build people like u dont dare to set foot to bg becouse u know u cant cheese ur way out.

pretty sure u know very well tho on those special 1 vs x builds noone wins in a fight. it can be drawn out eternaly there is no end to it either way u get bored and give up or u die of old age.

I play bg's regulary and have no problem with it. Also the most cheese is in no cp and everyone knows that. I am sure you people are trolling here or if not i can't take you serious

like what for example ?

Proc sets are rampant in no cp, bleeds, unbalanced offensive in general. I still enjoy no cp though. I would be for cp removal if they would return us the stats in no cp that they took away at least for starters.

i knew u come up with that crap. which *** procset u see these days in BG im EU PC noone uses sloads or anything like that on high mmr atleast. which procsets btw (stat proc, heal proc, shield proc, dmg proc).
isnt seventh legion health and stat proc and overused in cp pvp ?

procsets my ass this is me using julianos and spellstrategist. which is not even good combo considering the resource management lucky for me i had a good healer.
https://imgur.com/a/NpK6f6Y

here i post what have been posted again in this thread. this is cp for u.

Never had problems with bleeds in cp campaing

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Yes Noctus we all understand you are not able to kill people in cp pvp and that's fine, but i certainly never have problem to kill anyone in cp

im killing ppl in duells which are maxed with 810 cp with lvl 30 characters of mine doesnt mean they are bad. just means they dont have the neccessary build people like u dont dare to set foot to bg becouse u know u cant cheese ur way out.

pretty sure u know very well tho on those special 1 vs x builds noone wins in a fight. it can be drawn out eternaly there is no end to it either way u get bored and give up or u die of old age.

I play bg's regulary and have no problem with it. Also the most cheese is in no cp and everyone knows that. I am sure you people are trolling here or if not i can't take you serious

like what for example ?

Proc sets are rampant in no cp, bleeds, unbalanced offensive in general. I still enjoy no cp though. I would be for cp removal if they would return us the stats in no cp that they took away at least for starters.

i knew u come up with that crap. which *** procset u see these days in BG im EU PC noone uses sloads or anything like that on high mmr atleast. which procsets btw (stat proc, heal proc, shield proc, dmg proc).
isnt seventh legion health and stat proc and overused in cp pvp ?

procsets my ass this is me using julianos and spellstrategist. which is not even good combo considering the resource management lucky for me i had a good healer.
https://imgur.com/a/NpK6f6Y

here i post what have been posted again in this thread. this is cp for u.

Never had problems with bleeds in cp campaing

after my last reply he just went out of arguments

Emma_Overload · May 2019

Noctus wrote: »

i wont understand what going on inside those guys that defend immortal crutch point builds. like what are those ppl even thinking when facing of each other and noone can kill the other lol.

CP are absolutely essential if you want to survive an attack by multiple players long enough to escape or for reinforcements to arrive. This is especially true in the Imperial City where money (telvar = gold) is on the line. Not everything is about dueling!

SilverPaws · May 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

i wont understand what going on inside those guys that defend immortal crutch point builds. like what are those ppl even thinking when facing of each other and noone can kill the other lol.

CP are absolutely essential if you want to survive an attack by multiple players long enough to escape or for reinforcements to arrive. This is especially true in the Imperial City where money (telvar = gold) is on the line. Not everything is about dueling!

Give up, they won't listen to reason. It's just laughtable how anyone can think no cp is healthy pvp enviroment, but i guess that only shows on what level these players are at.

Noctus · May 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

i wont understand what going on inside those guys that defend immortal crutch point builds. like what are those ppl even thinking when facing of each other and noone can kill the other lol.

CP are absolutely essential if you want to survive an attack by multiple players long enough to escape or for reinforcements to arrive. This is especially true in the Imperial City where money (telvar = gold) is on the line. Not everything is about dueling!

u can do that in no cp with tanky builds but ofc u sacrifice a good ammount of dps for that which makes sense no ?

people actually do survive pretty often 3 vs 1 fights long enough for reinforcement. speaking for my own build i can survive a *** of time.

see picture 0 deaths even tho my team died at some point and i was left alone to tank the full enemy team.
https://imgur.com/a/E8w0gzo

Haashhtaag · May 2019

mursie wrote: »

i watched jackdaniell do a duel in CP vivec yesterday against a DK. Jack was on a gank templar build, the DK on a tanky build.

25 minutes later, they were both bored to death and just /bowed and went on their way.

Like watching paint dry. Oh well - here's to hoping the next guys they fight aren't CP capped. then they can club 'em good!

i wouldn’t say that’s a good example to prove anything.

BGs are lame because MMR system is a failure. Open world cp pvp is lame because ZOS servers are a failure.

Both are lame because ZOS is a failure

Haashhtaag · May 2019

Everything that is “bad” in cp is worse in no cp.

Urvoth · May 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

i wont understand what going on inside those guys that defend immortal crutch point builds. like what are those ppl even thinking when facing of each other and noone can kill the other lol.

CP are absolutely essential if you want to survive an attack by multiple players long enough to escape or for reinforcements to arrive. This is especially true in the Imperial City where money (telvar = gold) is on the line. Not everything is about dueling!

You can do that fine in non cp if you are good.

ecru · May 2019

TTK is too low in nocp. There's much less of a chance of outplaying others when you're outnumbered simply because outgoing damage is so high in comparison to heals, along with abilities being much more expensive in general. It's not really interesting gameplay.

heng14rwb17_ESO · May 2019

GO CP OR GO CRY !

Noctus · May 2019

ecru wrote: »

TTK is too low in nocp. There's much less of a chance of outplaying others when you're outnumbered simply because outgoing damage is so high in comparison to heals, along with abilities being much more expensive in general. It's not really interesting gameplay.

did u even watch the devstream bg and how high the ttk was. not even the ttk of games like "Smite" are that high and thats a competetive game.

Liww · May 2019

if you want balance dont look at this game in the first place but I agree cp is by far the worst out of the two.

I mean theres a reason there isnt a competetive scene after 5 years.

HEBREWHAMMERRR · May 2019

NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balanced platform the game offers. It makes people have to be able to resource manage and not mindlessly button smash. It takes away the CP crutch and ubkillable builds. I’m max CP I just don’t have my head buried in the sand like some.

zParallaxz · May 2019

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balanced platform the game offers. It makes people have to be able to resource manage and not mindlessly button smash. It takes away the CP crutch and ubkillable builds. I’m max CP I just don’t have my head buried in the sand like some.

The only reason why we have unkillable builds is due to over performing sets and Zos’s push for people to have higher health and more resistance. Cp wasn’t a problem back when it still had reduced cost passives, some would say during that period pvp was at its peak. ( Thieves Guild Patch)

Minno · May 2019

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Everything that is “bad” in cp is worse in no cp.

And we might have plateaued in finding the min-max selection of CP. I haven't really changed my defense/offense stars in like 2 years lol.

Minno · May 2019

zParallaxz wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

NoCP is leaps and bounds the most competitive and balanced platform the game offers. It makes people have to be able to resource manage and not mindlessly button smash. It takes away the CP crutch and ubkillable builds. I’m max CP I just don’t have my head buried in the sand like some.

The only reason why we have unkillable builds is due to over performing sets and Zos’s push for people to have higher health and more resistance. Cp wasn’t a problem back when it still had reduced cost passives, some would say during that period pvp was at its peak. ( Thieves Guild Patch)

those cost reductions were major strong though. It got to the point people were ignoring sustain entirely too.

But like all zos updates, they wait on the feedback for like half a year, then overnerfed because they are trying to gather all the feedback changes into one mega patch every DLC.

Urvoth · May 2019

ecru wrote: »

TTK is too low in nocp. There's much less of a chance of outplaying others when you're outnumbered simply because outgoing damage is so high in comparison to heals, along with abilities being much more expensive in general. It's not really interesting gameplay.

Too low? Haha that is not even remotely the case if you’ve played any high mmr BGs.

HEBREWHAMMERRR · May 2019

Urvoth wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

TTK is too low in nocp. There's much less of a chance of outplaying others when you're outnumbered simply because outgoing damage is so high in comparison to heals, along with abilities being much more expensive in general. It's not really interesting gameplay.

Too low? Haha that is not even remotely the case if you’ve played any high mmr BGs.

The people who think CP is balanced aren’t the people playing high MMR BGs I can promise you that. The people who are playing high MMR BGs know it’s the most competitive platform for ESO and have no problem dropping the CP trainingwheels to have actual good fights that require resource management and counterplay.

BNOC · May 2019

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

TTK is too low in nocp. There's much less of a chance of outplaying others when you're outnumbered simply because outgoing damage is so high in comparison to heals, along with abilities being much more expensive in general. It's not really interesting gameplay.

Too low? Haha that is not even remotely the case if you’ve played any high mmr BGs.

The people who think CP is balanced aren’t the people playing high MMR BGs I can promise you that. The people who are playing high MMR BGs know it’s the most competitive platform for ESO and have no problem dropping the CP trainingwheels to have actual good fights that require resource management and counterplay.

I agree with this.

The sheer amount of "top" players in BG's that get lit up quicktime is a joke.

grannas211 · May 2019

mursie wrote: »

There are 2 forms of pvp in ESO: structured PVP (BG's) and open world (Cyrodill)

CP in BG's was a complete failure. Proof was given by ZOS removing it from BG's. it was unbalanced for players not at CP cap (they were getting farmed due to statistical disadvantages) and it was a snoozefest boredom with 10 minutes of stalemate action when CP capped players faced each other. It was abandoned immediately and that single point is 100% proof it is bad for pvp.

We see in GW2 this same mindset on structured pvp vs. open world. You're free to wear whatever in open world GW2 (which is extremely popular) and structured pvp is balanced to same sets and stats for all to use and wear. structured pvp is not nearly as popular on GW2 as open world is. the same mindset we find here on ESO.

And this begs the question - Why is open world PVP so extremely popular despite it's imbalance?
We know it isn't balanced. structured pvp without inflated stats is designed with balance in mind. But the masses do not flock there. Why?

The answer is a cognitive dissonance by the individual away from a need to L2p and a requirement for Crutches as a result of that dissonance to perform adequately in pvp.

As with any bell curve, most players are average to below average. Only a few are elite. Since the masses are not the elite, they are in general not good and die easily to many many encounters of pvp. To avoid this continual dose of failure, the masses gravitate towards the one strategy that affords them the best opportunity to not be a failure.

Zerging.

Ah, good ole zerging. see, by sticking with numbers the inadequacies of the individual are carried by the quantity of crutches in the group. One doesn't need skill to kill another player, if one simply brings 20 other players with him to kill that one player. This is where we first are introduced to the popularity of open world. It allows for zerging. structured pvp does not. The inadequacies of the individual are much more on display in a small scale setting than an open world zerg.

But wait, there's more. You see, even in open world, bad players can be plucked from the pack by good players if 1 shot mechanics are present. While ZOS continues to nerf bat pretty much every and all 1 shot mechanics, the reality is that in no-cp you can come much closer to 1 shot territory than you can in CP. simply due to less stats and more concern over resource control. And here is why open world CP pvp is so extremely popular. It gives the two primary things bad players need.

1. the ability to zerg and cover up all inadequacies with sheer quantity
2. it removes the ability to immediately get destroyed by another player due to the inflated stat pools and defensive enhancements present in the crutch point campaign.

A literal safe-haven for the masses, it is no surprise that this is where the masses will gravitate towards. A prominent structured pvp'er already said it best: @thogard likened structured pvp to the NCAA tourney or super bowl. 1 shot or you're out. Meanwhile, CP pvp is like the world series. buckle up for a 7 game snoozefest becuase even if you suck balls, you'll still have time and resources to recover.

There is zero doubt that CP is nothing more than crutch points for the masses. To buy them the time and lend them the crutch they need to cover up their pvp inadequacies. inadequacies that include positioning awareness, resource management and control, target identification and selection, and pvp combat execution.

There is also zero doubt as to why the masses prefer this crutch point system. Because the masses, by definition, are not the elite. They are average to below average. They fail. routinely. over and over again. This is not something people like to come to grips with. Hell, kids today get participation awards to compensate and overshadow their inadequacies. And you wonder why they don't want to get hit in the face repeatedly in structured pvp with the knowledge and proof that they are infact not elite? There is no wonder. it is obvious.

ps - for the record, i'm in the average to below average category. But i'm also not a millennial. *** wasn't handed to me on a silver platter and i sure as hell wasn't told i was good or given participation awards when the results were infact dead last. Failure was just that - failure. But it was also THE primary motivator to get back up and go again. so that one day - maybe you'd fail a little less and eventually enjoy some success. That was the prize in itself.

kids today - pfft. you can call your crutch points whatever you want. frankly IDGAF. the transparency of your inadequacies are still obvious, no matter how much smoke and mirrors you'd like to try and throw up as defenses for your crutches.

what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Noctus · May 2019

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

TTK is too low in nocp. There's much less of a chance of outplaying others when you're outnumbered simply because outgoing damage is so high in comparison to heals, along with abilities being much more expensive in general. It's not really interesting gameplay.

Too low? Haha that is not even remotely the case if you’ve played any high mmr BGs.

The people who think CP is balanced aren’t the people playing high MMR BGs I can promise you that. The people who are playing high MMR BGs know it’s the most competitive platform for ESO and have no problem dropping the CP trainingwheels to have actual good fights that require resource management and counterplay.

thats pretty accurate

Noctus · May 2019

Urvoth wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

TTK is too low in nocp. There's much less of a chance of outplaying others when you're outnumbered simply because outgoing damage is so high in comparison to heals, along with abilities being much more expensive in general. It's not really interesting gameplay.

Too low? Haha that is not even remotely the case if you’ve played any high mmr BGs.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/475688/what-the-heck-is-up-with-bgs-post-update-all-matches-are-like-max-mmr-matches-now#latest

even beginners experience now how high the ttk actually is in eso lol